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ashc
16-06-2006, 17:32
Just wondered what people think of the 13th company rules, people who have played as or against them, and what they have used. Im considering them as a side project as they would save quite alot of cash as a new army, but obviously i wanted to know what they are like first!

cheers,

Ash

shveen
16-06-2006, 17:48
I don't play 13th company,but have played against them. They are masters of combat able to take up to 3 (i think) power weapons/fists in a squad.
They have some cool Hqs and Wolf scouts are absolutley amazing.


soory I can't go into more detail.


shveen

ashc
16-06-2006, 18:02
they don't have wolf scouts, i've got the rules here.

Any more opinions?

Ash

UnRiggable
16-06-2006, 18:36
Those wolf things are sooo cooool. My $0.02. Don't flame me for saying that.

boogle
16-06-2006, 18:43
I've found them for the most part very difficult to deal with (with the expetion of the Long Fangs), but then again i take Guard so most Comabt armies arehard for me to deal with (as i insist on playing on a heavily terraained board)

calicojack
16-06-2006, 18:47
Looking mechanically, they remind me very much of a World Eaters army in many respects, with the tendancy to hie off uncontrolledly towards the enemy, and hit with a solid punch. Perhaps more a World Eaters LatD, since they have that "chaos hounds" equivilant.... Then again, maybe I'm just jealous of the speed for my poor undivided LatDamned....

Christine
16-06-2006, 19:31
Rules a-side you can make some pretty gorgeous armies using them so that's got to be a plus point!

Inquisitor lorr
16-06-2006, 19:33
They can get across the board so fast.The army looks awesome and wulfen are so cool.Just a shame you can't use them in Uk tournies...:mad: ....cos i was gonna

PapaNurgle
16-06-2006, 19:40
Great and interesting list. 45 hounds and whatever else you want to bring.. 'casue with 13th company, it's all about the hounds...

ashc
16-06-2006, 23:09
Im not really keen on investing in 45 hounds; never really occurred to me :eyebrows:

I have worked out a 1500pts list that has a wolf lord, rune priest, 2 tooled storm claws units, and 2 tooled grey slayers units, and i am left with about 180pts for the last unit, and im not sure what to get; what are people's opinions on:

Wulfen
Wolves
Bikers
Long Fangs

And which of these would sit nicely in COD?

Cheers,

Ash

Easy E
17-06-2006, 00:06
Wolves are a nice way to get some mobility. Bikers are too expensive for this purpose. However, I have little to no experience with this army.

scarvet
17-06-2006, 01:34
Gery Slayers! they are the back bone of your army; in a normal game, you will need more bikers and a bike character; in CoD, it all about the Slayers!

Dranthar
17-06-2006, 05:47
Well I actually have a 2000pt 13th company, and I've played at least 30-odd games of varying sizes with them, including in tournaments.

The army itself is pretyy much a very elite infantry army. Point for point their units are a great deal. All of your 'basic' marines (ie. bikers and long fangs excepted) will have at least 3 attacks in assault (without charging) and combined with all the nifty gear you get, they are a real threat in combat. The scout move combined with wulfen, the teleporting rune priest, bikes and all those wolves makes the army suprisingly capable of getting across the board in short order. Even if they're unable to assault, their close ranged firepower (thanks to the 2 special weapons per squad) is still pretty impressive.

Basically, if you are after a very elite assault army without vehicles, 13th company fit the bill perfectly.

That said, I have found them to be a bit of a one trick pony, with very few options available should something not going according to plan. To be more specific;
1. While their movement abilities can get them across the board, if the enemy somehow moves away from the area you were heading for, it's not easy to re-direct most of your force to intercept them. You'll basically find yourself with the slower elements out of the game while the faster elements may not be enough to tackle the enemy on their own.
2. The lack of any real long-ranged firepower can really hurt. Things like enemy ordnance can be very dangerous and very difficult to deal with, even with long fangs and a teleporting rune priest.
3. In most games I've found that it can be difficult to take objectives, since it isn't that easy to keep your units above 50%.

Things aren't all that bad of course. These are just inherent weaknesses of the army that you have to deal with. I have won more games than I've lost (W/L/D/ = 21/13/4)

For a quick breakdown of the units;
Wolf Lord: He's the boss and he's compulsory, so not too much to say here. This is the model to whom I give him the belt of russ

Rune Priest: This guy gets terminator armour and a combi-melta, when I take him. The best advice I can give is to be very careful with the gate power.

Wolf Priest: I prefer this guy over the rune priest, partially bcause I take so many wulfen and partially because he tends to make my guys more resiliant thanks to the healing potions

Wulfen: I take thses because they're very, very quick and can still tear a new one against anything but tanks and 2+ armour (which is what the wolf priest is for.

Storm Claws: Very hard core in combat, although their movement rate can be a slight problem, which is why I generally prefer wulfen.

Grey Slayers: While not as good in HTH as the 'Claws, they are still very capable and more than make up for it with their flexibility. These should be the backbone of the army.

Wolves: A pack of these is invaluble for tying enemy units up. Charge a dreadnought to prent having to deal with it for a few turns, or charge any other shooting unit to either kill it or at least save your units from getting shot for a few turns. These are a god-send for the 13th company.

Bikers: Not a bad unit and their speed is always welcome in a 13th co. army. Use them for supporting assaults or chasing down tanks and other small things, but be wary of getting swamped.

Long Fangs: I haven't really used these guys much. They are an expensive unit for the model count and while they do provide some long-ranged support, they are vulneable to enemy shooting and you could get alot more marines for the points.

For my own 2000pt army. I generally take;
Wolf Lord in Power armour
Rune priest in terminator armour
Wolf priest
15(!) Wulfen
2x10 Grey slayers with melta guns and pack leader
1x8 Grey Slayers w. plasma guns
25 Wolves divided into two units
5 Storm Claw Bikers

I hope I've helped, because it took long enough to type this out. :rolleyes:

Serpent
17-06-2006, 06:32
I've played a few games with the 13th Co, mostly 1700 points, as this is the standard size around these parts. My experiences can be found in the 13th Company Tactica (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=275) in the Tactics forum, started by a rather dashing chap... ;) :rolleyes:

Serpent

ashc
17-06-2006, 10:10
Thanks for the replies and the link Serpent!

Ash

boogle
17-06-2006, 10:50
The Wulfen would be my preference (Xhalax has 2 units of them), but they are better served with a Wolf Priest leading them

The Long Fangs tend not to last too long when i face them, but might be abit harder to shift in COD, especially if you give them 4 assault weapons

Wolves, probably better used as character upgrades in COD rather than as a big unit, but cheap enough for what they can do

Bikers, in a normal game i would take them, however with all of the difficult terrain and potential pitfalls on a COD table, i wouldn't take them

As for the Storm Claws issue, Xhalax usually has a unit accompany the Rune Priest, so them can get gated about

Inquisitor lorr
17-06-2006, 11:20
I would think that wolves would excel in CoD because the only thing letting them down is their armour save,and in CoD with the amount of cover this would be remedied.They woudl then be perfect cheap strong troops,with decent survivability.

boogle
17-06-2006, 11:28
maybe, but some rotten difficult terrain rolls could make them less than effective, they are however still a good choice (i haven't faced any yet as Xhalax hasn't finished painting them)

ashc
17-06-2006, 12:53
I was wondering if long fangs suddenly were potentially alot more effective in COD; teamed up with an ammo store or medicae facility building they would be tough to shift or cause some real damage, no?

Ash

Sandlemad
17-06-2006, 17:02
The long fangs would be decent but I think you might be better off with a squad with meltas,either LFs or slayers, teleporting with the rune priest. With normal long fangs in a building, they will be tougher, but still every casualty hurts he squad A LOT.
A teleporting melta squad is lethal in COD, they were in old cityfight at any rate, so it shouldn't be too different.

Do not, however, teleport storm claws. You can't assault after using the gate, so they're stuck using their pistols for a turn. With them, you really want to get the charge so you can get one of the most obscene amounts of attacks available to SM armies.:p

Bikers wouldn't be as bad as people think. They have skilled riders, so difficult terrain isn't hugely bad, just risky. A lot of points per models and if they get caught out in the open...

Wolves are always a good choice. You need the bodies and it prevents your opponent from over-specialising. Plasmas are overkill on wolves. Course, with flamers being pretty much standard equipment in COD, they might be a tad less effective.

So basically, on the long fangs, they would be fairly effective if you got them on top of a tall building with access to medicae or ammo stores (that would be vicious:) ), for COD I feel a teleporting squad might be more effective. 4 fangs with meltas or for more resilience, some slayers would be more effective overall.

Postscript: Considering the type of replies, perhaps this should go in the tactics forum?

The_Outsider
17-06-2006, 18:11
I myself have a 1500 13th company force and have played them since their release.

I do love assault! I have had games where my wolf lord (with storm claw bodyguard naturally) and wulfen with wolf priest have literally eaten a GK army alive.

The ability to have mark of wulfen on your lord is awesome, it makes him one of the most powerful imperial CC minsters (seeing as only a GKGM can come close).

I have had about 50/50 win ratio with them, but I find tau to be the bane of my existance (at least with IG they stay still, damn I hate JSJ).

Thyey are an incrediably fun army to play (the look on a BT player's face when his assault squad charged my grey slayers and I got the same number of attacks back was priceless) and do extremely well in non standard missions (can anyone say escalation?).

I use long fangs though I am slowly phasing them out, at the moment i have got down to 2 missile laucnhers and a lascannon, but I simply cannot drop them, I need the long range too much.

Oh and I NEVER use a rune priest, I cannot justify his cost (and I want a wolf priest to control my wulfen).

Keravin
17-06-2006, 20:32
Im not really keen on investing in 45 hounds; never really occurred to me :eyebrows:

I have worked out a 1500pts list that has a wolf lord, rune priest, 2 tooled storm claws units, and 2 tooled grey slayers units, and i am left with about 180pts for the last unit, and im not sure what to get; what are people's opinions on:

Wulfen
Wolves
Bikers
Long Fangs

And which of these would sit nicely in COD?

Cheers,

Ash

The Wolves should work nicely in COD as they are just Troops.

Wulfen really need a Wolf Priest otherwise they will be picked off.

Still not keen on Bikers.

Long Fangs maybe more useful as they could keep one flank covered whilst the rest run forward.


I really like the 13th Company. They have big flaws, but are very characterful, great for modelling and really inspire me to do campaigns.

ashc
17-06-2006, 20:42
Actually the wolves are fast attack choice for the 13th company list; i do question their use in COD though; although they would benefit from cover, i think a good plethora of flamers will soon be putting those poor puppies down; what do people think?

Ash

Rabid Bunny 666
17-06-2006, 20:44
Awesome to put it bluntly, i love my 5 man Melta Long Fangs, my Wolflord and Grey Slayers, all i need really.

Keravin
17-06-2006, 23:35
Actually the wolves are fast attack choice for the 13th company list; i do question their use in COD though; although they would benefit from cover, i think a good plethora of flamers will soon be putting those poor puppies down; what do people think?

Ash

If he's aiming there then he's not targetting your powered armoured troopers who are going to be on him any second shortly after.

Dranthar
18-06-2006, 04:06
I think Bikers would be awesome in 13th co - they get their full move through terrain and skilled riders minimises the casualties from dangerous terrain to almost nil.

Right now I'm not convinced on the effectiveness of wolves in cityfight. They may be quick and the cover saves may help their resiliance, but they also lack frag grenades and combined with their lack of armour, they are not going to be as effective in assault.

Xhalax
18-06-2006, 19:46
Personally, I adore the 13th Company...which is one of the reasons why I choose them.

Although they're a small force, they're extremely hardy troops. Even more so than your average Space Marine. And you've got so groovy rules through in for good measure that makes then go even better (fleet of foot/claw, mark of the Wulfen, turbo charge bikes which give a +4 invunerable save...and so on).
And that's including if you use Sternhammer as Stern with all the rules to boot (though he is damned expensive to take).

Also, the 13th Co speak to my sense of combat style which consists of CHARGE!!!! Speed being essential to the 13th Co. Get them into Close combat ASAP where they can and do hack down most of the enemies in their path.

And since I love close combat so much, I tend to be quite heavy on the number of Wulfen. They're excellent choices. A pack of ten, possibly a Wolf Priest in tow......Animal Rage giving them an extra move and a charge and Hey Presto....30 attacks in combat.

Though I have to admit that, although my Wolves win out.....they take some heavy casualties and there are some squads that don't do too well with me (namely Grey Slayers and Long Fangs.....what can I say? I'm an elitest snob!). And they don't always pay for themselves. But the Wulfen usually pick up the slack. Along with the Storm Claws.

Yodhrin
18-06-2006, 20:47
I dont get the whole "CHARRRRRGE!" mentality, either with normal Wolves or with 13th Co.

Against anything with I4 or lower(just about everything short of HQs and DE), you will get far better results closing to Rapid Fire range with massed Slayers and letting rip, then taking the charge on the chin. Ive seen people lose their entire main battleline by attempting to resist the implacable advance of the Grey Slayers. The way I see it, they're good in combat, but Charging is a terrible way to get them there. You should only be charging if you're facing huge amounts of firepower in a form which doesnt quickly explode into meaty chunks after application of a bolter round, ie, Guard Tanks or other Marine gunlines(******* IWs come to mind), or to finish off after you gun most of them down.

Storm Claws are better used in supporting Characters hunting tanks, MCs and really hard infantry while you leave the bulk infantry and characters to your Slayers, or as a small unit Gating with a Rune Priest to shred isolated units like Dev squads.

Wulfen are fun, but difficult to manage without a Wolf Priest, meaning taking more than one unit is generally a bad idea unless you're running a themed list. I suggest confining them to the third points tier, when the Wolf Priest is mandatory, as a Gating Rune Priest is just too handy(and entertaining) to leave at home. Use a smallish unit and advance them up a flank in the wake of your Wolves if you want them to do damage, or straight at his main power block if you want to draw fire with them.

Bikes suffer from having no role which cant be performed better by another unit. That doesnt mean they're not good, just that there's better alternatives. They are fun to use though, so dont let stat-crunching get in the way if you want to use them. Armed for combat, they can add a nice punch to your Wolves by throwing in power weapon and fist attacks, meaning you can tie big gribblies down with your Wolves and still have a shot at scrapping them quickly. With Meltas or Plasma, they can outflank and slag tanks, heavy infantry(crisis suits, termies etc) or characters. If they survive long enough they should also prove handy for grabbing table quarters or objectives.

Long Fangs get a bad rep in 13th Co because you cant arm the Pack Leader with an extra special weapon and they have no meatshield bodies, but they can be effective if you use them right. Cover, Cover, Cover, and only go after what you know they can frag in a single turn(providing you dont roll a double snake-eyes :p). They can work with a Rune Priest, Gating in with meltas to screw tanks or characters, but just as with the Bikes, other things can perform the same roles better.

Overall, they rock. Fielded in my favourite configuration(solid core of Slayers, Lord with small Claw bodyguard, Rune Priest, decent amount of Wolves and other units to taste), they can also be bloody devestating. I must say though, if you really want a full-on assaulty army, there are better choices; Khornate Marines will shred through Wulfen lists, and Storm Claw + Bike focused lists are outdone by normal Wolves or Black Templars.

Xhalax
18-06-2006, 22:17
With Wulfen...the best course of defence is offence which means CHARGE.......well actually ANIMAL RAGE.

I find that the Wulfen are very much bullet magnets. Since they have no range weapons, you've got to get them into close combat or they just get shot to pieces because they're mad in hand to hand.

I lead with the Wulfen. With everyone else covering their charge. Which means that have to move almost as fast the the Wulfen. And since the Wolves have True Grit, even the Grey Slayers have no problem getting down and dirty.

Plus, they're only a small company and my Wolves last longer when they're fighting up close and personal. So I get them into CC quick so all that nasty Guard heavy weaponary can't do it's damage and most of the time, everyone is consolidating into another combat...especially when playing Guard in City Fight.

I see the speed of the 13th Co. being their greatest asset and I use it to the best of my abilities....with could be seen very much as 'CHARGE!'

Yodhrin
18-06-2006, 23:52
With Wulfen...the best course of defence is offence which means CHARGE.......well actually ANIMAL RAGE.

I find that the Wulfen are very much bullet magnets. Since they have no range weapons, you've got to get them into close combat or they just get shot to pieces because they're mad in hand to hand.

I lead with the Wulfen. With everyone else covering their charge. Which means that have to move almost as fast the the Wulfen. And since the Wolves have True Grit, even the Grey Slayers have no problem getting down and dirty.

Plus, they're only a small company and my Wolves last longer when they're fighting up close and personal. So I get them into CC quick so all that nasty Guard heavy weaponary can't do it's damage and most of the time, everyone is consolidating into another combat...especially when playing Guard in City Fight.

I see the speed of the 13th Co. being their greatest asset and I use it to the best of my abilities....with could be seen very much as 'CHARGE!'

It just seems like a waste to me, to just use Slayers as a poor-man's Storm Claw pack and throw away the awesome destructive potential they can put out at short range. If you just take a couple of small packs to fill the Troop requirement then load up on assault infantry, of course they wont last long, the strength of the Slayers is when you mass two or three good size packs in front of your enemy, preferably in some cover, and then let rip with double bolters and six special weapons. They either have to sit there and take it or charge you and face off against three attacks per-Marine, plus the widely used Pack Leader with Mark of the Wulfen and a powerfist.

I find it's much more effective to use small packs of assaulters like a scalpel, supporting the brute-force sledgehammer of the advancing Slayers than it is to just load up on assaulters and feel like Im back playing a game of 3rd Edition "Closecombathammer40K".

Xhalax
19-06-2006, 00:06
Every tinker has his own way of dancing. And it works for some and not others....so live and let live with strategy?

I've tried using the shooting power of the Grey Slayer and that failed miserably. Moving them through cover to gain a good killing ground. And the Guard and Sisters (two different battles) just moved their heavy weapons into position and shot me to pieces.

And I do try to use them to cover the advance of my Wulfen. But the Wulfen move too fast so they're into Close Combat leaving the Grey Slayers behind to get the snot blown out of them instead because they're not fast enough to get into the relative safety of CC.

Plus, I like Close Combat. It's much more fun that stand about shooting each other to pieces. Which is what 4th Edition seems to be more geared towards.
And if I wanted a more shooty army, i'd have gone for normal Space Wolves anyway. Where Terminators, Dreads and Tanks would have been available to me. But I like things right in the enemies face. So 13th Co is much more my cup of tea.

eldarsevent
07-11-2006, 19:16
i played against them in a spiecal multiplayer thing at warhammer world the wufren moved 6 nere the edge of a massive ruin hill leading into a church and my necrons they rolled a 6 for there fleet rule then charged and rolled 6 on there difficult terrain test they moved out of terrain and got about 40 attacks on my 10 warriors and lord even with wbb 4 survied i got 2 killes on them with all my warriors in 3 turns my lord killed 4 in 4 turns then they were killed. then 2 squads of slannesh and 1 of iron warriors got in there then some 13 company came and some ig they all killed each other

eldarsevent
07-11-2006, 19:18
sorry i do think they're good on the field and as model.

sorry didn't know u could edit

Slaaneshi Slave
07-11-2006, 19:26
Not played with them, or against them. I don't like any of the Space Marine subchapters for the simple reason that GW takes too much time concentrating on those, when they should be making non space marine codeces.

So yeah, just another cheesy marine sub army.

ashc
07-11-2006, 19:41
wow, well this was interesting threadomancy..... :confused:

Ash

Slaaneshi Slave
07-11-2006, 19:43
Was at the top of the front page when I posted, don't look at me. :p

harlequin21
07-11-2006, 19:45
Having played 13th Co. a couple of times with my tau i found them a really fun army to play against with the matches usually coming close with the results.
love the rules too!

Gaz
07-11-2006, 19:49
hate them ;):p (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/james.gsp/XIII.JPG)

Grimtuff
07-11-2006, 21:40
wow, well this was interesting threadomancy..... :confused:

Ash

I read through this whole thread and only just noticed... :rolleyes:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v615/Grimtuff/threadnecromancer0wb.jpg

ashc
07-11-2006, 21:43
Oh Grimtuff thank you. that is just what i was waiting for.

hang on a minute, i started this thread and i can close it!

Thread closed due to no need for random act of threadomancy.

:evilgrin:

Ash