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Grimtuff
16-06-2006, 20:55
I saw this over my shoulder when playing a game myself.

If a picture is worth 1000 words.....
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v615/Grimtuff/Random%20junk/picture055.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v615/Grimtuff/Random%20junk/picture054.jpg

Apologies for the crappyness of them, but they were taken on a camera phone. ;)

coelomate
16-06-2006, 21:14
My eyes are bleeding...

jfrazell
16-06-2006, 21:28
Maybe he was getting them set up (or they were kills). I can't see just lining them up without benefit of terrain or good firing lanes as a worthwhile maneuver.

MadJackMcJack
16-06-2006, 21:30
Looks more like deployment to me, as there are a few models further in.

Grimtuff
16-06-2006, 21:33
Yes it was him deploying, I can assure you 100% on that

stompzilla
16-06-2006, 21:48
lol! Stereotypes usually exist for a reason and this proves it!

Master Jeridian
16-06-2006, 22:02
All the opponent needs to do is nudge the table by accident and that entire army 'falls back' off the table.

Fallen Angel
16-06-2006, 22:53
Meh, if that was the persons actual deployment then they are absolute idiots as they have no real firing lines and itd be so easy to sneak any kind of combat army up on them.

Damien 1427
16-06-2006, 22:59
Break their morale, watch as his entire army runs off of the board.

The guy seems to be an utter muppet. At least, he seems to have all the tactical acumen of a lump of fuzzy felt.

Quin 242
17-06-2006, 00:17
[QUOTE=Damien 1427]Break their morale, watch as his entire army runs off of the board.
QUOTE]
This is my thought... I'd LOVE for my opponent to set up like that.. one failed morale test and it's all over... Shoot each unit to just at 25% loss and move to the next unit.. make him take tests on as many units as he has :) gonna fail one once in a while. :)

Wraithbored
17-06-2006, 00:22
Just how high is the chance of them running off? I mean IW's are chaos undivided and if they have the undivided mark they do get a reroll. So the odds of them legging it are quite small right?

Sanjuro
17-06-2006, 00:25
It's a re-roll on a 9 or 10. Pretty good odds, I'd say. It still is pretty darn silly to set up like that guy did. As has been stated, terrain was blocking his line of sight, and so on.

Wraithbored
17-06-2006, 00:27
It's a re-roll on a 9 or 10. Pretty good odds, I'd say. It still is pretty darn silly to set up like that guy did. As has been stated, terrain was blocking his line of sight, and so on.
Cheers!

I still think if the value of psychology was upped in 40k people would be far more weary of pinning weaponry or casualties. *toasts* TO simplicity :wtf:

Grimtuff
17-06-2006, 00:31
Esp. as said guy was against Nids in that game (hence the "reasoning" for his deployment :eyebrows: )

Barbed Stranglers ahoy!

It's good to see everyone had the same reaction as me!
Who's that handsome devil? (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v615/Grimtuff/Random%20junk/picture056.jpg) :eek:

Lafeel Abriel
17-06-2006, 00:33
Cheers!

I still think if the value of psychology was upped in 40k people would be far more weary of pinning weaponry or casualties. *toasts* TO simplicity :wtf:
Agreed. It'd force players to think more when sorting out their tactics for each game, which can never be a bad thing..

Sanjuro
17-06-2006, 00:38
Cheers!

I still think if the value of psychology was upped in 40k people would be far more weary of pinning weaponry or casualties. *toasts* TO simplicity :wtf:

Absolutely. The re-roll isn't so bad in itself, I just think that as a rule, regular troopers in 40k have way to high Ld characteristics. And it's much to easy to become fearless, or recieve other bonuses nearly nullifying the threat of panic.

On the one hand, it makes panic that much more devastating when it does appear - since you never plan for it. On the other hand: in Fantasy, you learn to adapt and adjust. Psychology is a part of the game, it will happen, you had better just learn to deal with it. 40k is much more all-or-nothing in this respect. I think that increasing the importance of psychology would make the game seem less like a point and click affair. Now, don't get me wrong: I love this game, and there are several point and click armies in Fantasy as well - I'm just trying to come up with a way to make this game better.

Grimtuff
17-06-2006, 00:42
Maybe make the stipulations for rallying even harder then, such as no enemy with 12" (or is that too harsh?) or there being a chance you won't be able to rally if you take 25% casualties?

Just chucking some ideas in there.

Wraithbored
17-06-2006, 00:51
Maybe make the stipulations for rallying even harder then, such as no enemy with 12" (or is that too harsh?) or there being a chance you won't be able to rally if you take 25% casualties?

Just chucking some ideas in there.

Absolutely. The re-roll isn't so bad in itself, I just think that as a rule, regular troopers in 40k have way to high Ld characteristics. And it's much to easy to become fearless, or recieve other bonuses nearly nullifying the threat of panic.

On the one hand, it makes panic that much more devastating when it does appear - since you never plan for it. On the other hand: in Fantasy, you learn to adapt and adjust. Psychology is a part of the game, it will happen, you had better just learn to deal with it. 40k is much more all-or-nothing in this respect. I think that increasing the importance of psychology would make the game seem less like a point and click affair. Now, don't get me wrong: I love this game, and there are several point and click armies in Fantasy as well - I'm just trying to come up with a way to make this game better.
True but allas everything we come up with are just ideas and wishes. Now don't get me wrong I encourage creative thinking. But allas not until it's "official" noone will really want to use it, which is kind of sad really.[/emo]

But what I'd add is higher modifier to leadership and to counter it the player would just have to make sure he invests into a proper command structure and/or items to enhance or at least stabilise their morale.

And OT: When I see a line of troopers like that I really wish I had a weapon like the blast that the Warrior of Fire had(NAusicaa of the valey of the wind). Man that would be so awesome :D Ah well dreams will be dreams.

Grimtuff
17-06-2006, 00:54
True but allas everything we come up with are just ideas and wishes. Now don't get me wrong I encourage creative thinking. But allas not until it's "official" noone will really want to use it, which is kind of sad really.[/emo]


Don't get me wrong, i'm aware those were pipe dreams, as i've said in other threads. When I get tired of playing 40k with it's rules, I just go off and play another system for a month or two, then all my whines and whinges go away cause thats my way of doing something about it (Are you listening EMOS? :p )

Unseeing Eye
17-06-2006, 00:56
Librarian with Fury of the Ancients in Rhino.

:p

Grimtuff
17-06-2006, 01:05
Librarian with Fury of the Ancients in Rhino.

:p


Drop Pod. Drop pod I say! No need for half measures here. 2 Libbys as well :evilgrin:


*Disclaimer: Grimtuff does not condone any of these actions in a normal game :)

Unseeing Eye
17-06-2006, 01:10
Drop Pod. Drop pod I say! No need for half measures here. 2 Libbys as well :evilgrin:


*Disclaimer: Grimtuff does not condone any of these actions in a normal game :)

I said Rhino because dropping a pod one inch from the board edge is asking for trouble.

With a Rhino, however, you can pop out and get a nice line down the table.

zealousheretic
17-06-2006, 01:14
Esp. as said guy was against Nids in that game (hence the "reasoning" for his deployment :eyebrows: )

Barbed Stranglers ahoy!


A psychic choir against that deployment would be so hideously mean.

damz451
17-06-2006, 01:17
quite a while ago i was playing against i.g (i was dark eldar), i slaughtered whole platoons and tanks in the 1st and second turn. The opposing player placed his dead units on the edge of the board, loads of heavy weapon teams and leman russes. anyway one of the store employees walked past and said " what sort of game are you trying to play?!" then the guy told him that it was teh dead pile then the employee just laughed and walked away.

those pics would suggest deployment or dead piles as there is cover directly infront of most of his units

MadJackMcJack
17-06-2006, 01:39
Yes it was him deploying, I can assure you 100% on that

Hold on, that was his actual deployment, not him putting his models to one side while setting up? Against 'nids? He's a damned fool then, as in that cover, he can shoot just as well, AND be better able to fight off a charge.

UnRiggable
17-06-2006, 03:02
If I was playing him I'd say "I gotta take a leak" and then 'accidently' nudge the side of the table, toppling his army over. If I was a spectator, I'd just push the table and run for the door (not advised in any way, especially if you need to purchase two plane tickets even though you travel alone)


[/emo]
The power of deppression has an effect on us all...

Tanith Ghost
17-06-2006, 04:42
This IW punk is just begging for the 'Drop pod+ Boo' tactic. And on this ocasion, I'd condone the use of said tactic.

Let's see how well 4 H.support picks do when totaly deprived of infantry support.:evilgrin:

Unseeing Eye
17-06-2006, 05:14
Against FotD, IWs will have LD8 with a reroll usually. And your pod has a good chance of scattering off the table given the circumstances. Not advised. I'm telling you, two Librarians in rhinos with Fury. :)

Dranthar
17-06-2006, 06:12
I'd use that jammy git Tigrus for good measure. :D

Sekhmet
17-06-2006, 07:40
Throw in a culexus for Ld5 FotD. Good times.

Oh, was that your ENTIRE army that ran off the board? Hm.. good game.

Sarigar
17-06-2006, 12:29
I think the real question is: did he win?

It's easy to come up with killer combos against an army you see already deployed on a table. Many of us come to play with an all takers army and don't tailor armies.

Against a bug army that excels in assault, this may have been what he felt was his best option-put as much distance between the shooting units and assault units.

I know this is meant as fun, but let's not be so quick to criticise.

robertsjf
17-06-2006, 15:28
This can't be IW! I don't see a Basilisk...

UnRiggable
17-06-2006, 15:36
It would get owned, dude. Unless you can balance it on the edge of the table.

The_Outsider
17-06-2006, 18:27
BWUAHAHAHA

What sort of fool deploys like that? is his head still in the 3rd ed?

Hell, against that army pariahs would be awesomeness.

Nay, go one better just take anything that can snap the units in half and watch the army run.

An internet cookie for you OP.

El Ravager
17-06-2006, 19:47
I'll echo that I think too many basic troops have too high ld and too many ways to basically ignore psychology. But it is devestating when it hits. It really hurt my opponent (Space Marines) the last two games I played. First game his Librarian's command squad was attacked by my two obliterators and he took to casualties and removed himself from base contact. Lost combat and failed his check. His line of retreat followed a collumn of my guys and his big mean command squad couldn't regroup and ran off the board after taking two losses.

The second game was less spectacular -- the same sort of thing happened to a tac squad.

El Ravager
17-06-2006, 19:49
Oh, and as for the IW whacky deployment, maybe he had a perfectly good reason. Maybe he was playing the wolves and was fearing the scouts entering from his board edge and trying to deny them entry.

No wait, you said he was playing 'nids. NM

Rabid Bunny 666
17-06-2006, 19:57
"Whats the plan sir?"
"Wait until they go over the hedge, son"

Oh dear...

Kahadras
17-06-2006, 21:13
Wow and I thought people were joking when they said they had seen people deploying like that. It's a bit sad if you ask me. Clearly the guy doesn't really want to make a game of it 'I'm just going to sit here on the back edge of my deployment zone and shoot you' type games are very boring IMO.

Kahadras

UnRiggable
17-06-2006, 22:14
Leadership is VERY low. And don't give me 'saving private ryan' as an excuse for it. If the guy next to me got blown to bits, I'd run for my life.

Sekhmet
17-06-2006, 23:22
you're obviously not in the military then. If the guy next to you got blown to bits, the chances are that if you ran, you'd get shot down.

MadJackMcJack
17-06-2006, 23:44
you're obviously not in the military then. If the guy next to you got blown to bits, the chances are that if you ran, you'd get shot down.

TRATIORS AND COWARDS WILL BE SHOT!

Zzarchov
17-06-2006, 23:58
you're obviously not in the military then. If the guy next to you got blown to bits, the chances are that if you ran, you'd get shot down.

and so instead of running you'd bite the dirt. AKA, pinning (which I think should give you a bonus to your cover save, 6+ for being in the open - 2+ for being in a bunker)

It takes one stupid/brave guy to be marching across a field, have his buddies chewed into toothpaste and keep marching rather than diving to the ground.

UnRiggable
18-06-2006, 02:45
Thanks for reminding me the horrors of war and how the U.S. army is running out of soldiers and the draft may be re-enacted (or wwhatever)...

russian
18-06-2006, 02:59
Mr grimtuf yer was funy when i saw that at the club aswell i couldnt actually belive that someoen ectually did tat just though it was a myth, will find out from mike who i belive he was playing if he got a good hiding for it,

Tanith Ghost
18-06-2006, 08:36
Thanks for reminding me the horrors of war and how the U.S. army is running out of soldiers and the draft may be re-enacted (or wwhatever)...


After all, everyone should shirk duty if they don't feel like doing what they volunteered for.:rolleyes:

If you don't like how things are, get yourself elected and make changes.

Lafeel Abriel
18-06-2006, 16:53
Thanks for reminding me the horrors of war and how the U.S. army is running out of soldiers and the draft may be re-enacted (or wwhatever)...
"It is the duty of all of us to remind those that forget just how horrific war is, lest we grow too fond of it"-Me

UnRiggable
18-06-2006, 18:01
Ghost there are better ways to avoid the draft. My favorite is, before going to a doctor's appointment, drink alot of koolaid, and you will be marked down for having high blood sugar.
And abreel, thats what Wh40k is for.
Anybody have any thing to contribute

Lafeel Abriel
18-06-2006, 20:21
^Not really. Warhammer is hardly a correct representation of what war is like, no game is. It is all too easy to forget that in real life the guys don't just stand up and dust themselves off after being "killed" in battle..In real life, if you get killed, you stay dead.

Playa
18-06-2006, 22:19
Hey,


It is all too easy to forget that in real life the guys don't just stand up and dust themselves off after being "killed" in battle..In real life, if you get killed, you stay dead.

It's not easy to forget at all, so you can drop the moral high-ground act.

And, in case any of you missed a memo, there *is* no draft in the US.

So try sticking to topics for which you're qualified to hold an opinion.

Toy soldiers, for instance . . .


Playa

--

Duly impressed with self-annointed intelligentsia who've yet to achieve their majority.

noneedforaname
18-06-2006, 22:22
simple answer you take 25% casualties from shooting you take a leadership test if you pass your pinned, eating dirt so to speak. If you fail you start running, brown pants time. To replace the marines they shall no know fear rule, the pass, no effect. They fail they are pinned.

now you can supress units with shooting, you get bravery in numbers, marines grow steel **************. Psychology now has an effect on the game jobs a good'un.

oh and before anyone asks about fearless units, no cover saves for you, your not scared of getting hurt so why take cover.

Unseeing Eye
18-06-2006, 22:50
Thats silly. Everyone but Marines would be royally screwed. Its not hard to put 25% casualties on a lot of the enemies units in one turn. So essentially, first turn = auto pin every unit the enemy has, mow them down in the following turns.

noneedforaname
18-06-2006, 22:56
marines in general have units no bigger than ten, now think ork's, nids, tau, latd, guard and anyone else that can have units bigger than ten much easier to cause 25% casualties against smaller units.

marine armies are always outnumbered therefore cannot shoot at all the units and pin them all thats the pay off as a guard army can easilly cause 25% casualtis on every marine unit in one turn. then there are such things as terrain, weapon ranges and whether you want to split your shooting to consider as well.

Kriegsherr
18-06-2006, 23:03
^Not really. Warhammer is hardly a correct representation of what war is like, no game is. It is all too easy to forget that in real life the guys don't just stand up and dust themselves off after being "killed" in battle..In real life, if you get killed, you stay dead.

It better represent an army training with IR-simulators. Then they try to be superman (If the sergeant is not able to stop them that is), They moan when they are hit and have to play dead, and stand up after training an dust off their clothes, longin for a revenge on the gits of the other squad.

Trust me, I'm a sergeant in the swiss army, I've seen grown men far from beeing military freaks become little children playing superman when they should simulate real battlefield situations :)

zealousheretic
19-06-2006, 00:56
Wow and I thought people were joking when they said they had seen people deploying like that. It's a bit sad if you ask me. Clearly the guy doesn't really want to make a game of it 'I'm just going to sit here on the back edge of my deployment zone and shoot you' type games are very boring IMO.

Kahadras

I see this sometimes with my Tyranids. A thin power-armored line across the back of the board, with the person announcing that he doesn't want to be any closer to you in an obnoxious tone that implies that only an idiot would deploy any other way.

Like I said, Psychic Choir. I like the tactic anyway, and it's absolutely brutal once I start forcing morale tests from shooting.

Tom
19-06-2006, 01:19
I'd punch him.

And I'm an IW player.

MIGHTYPanhead
19-06-2006, 02:51
Leadership is VERY low. And don't give me 'saving private ryan' as an excuse for it. If the guy next to me got blown to bits, I'd run for my life.

Then explain to me why the allied invasion of normandy worked... ;)

every beach had similar scenarios, with plenty a "buddy beside me" getting blown to bits..

Sekhmet
19-06-2006, 03:13
and so instead of running you'd bite the dirt. AKA, pinning (which I think should give you a bonus to your cover save, 6+ for being in the open - 2+ for being in a bunker)

It takes one stupid/brave guy to be marching across a field, have his buddies chewed into toothpaste and keep marching rather than diving to the ground.
Depends on the situation. If you're in a trench and an mortar lands semi-nearby and kills the person next to you, what're you gonna do, jump out of the trench and run away? In all likely hood, if you're hit by something that "blows to bits" the person next to you you'll already be in a safer position than anything you could hope for by running away. If you run from the enemy, besides the harsh penalties (which may include death) inflicted upon you by your own side, you may make other people think that there was an ordered retreat and follow you. What if you're fighting for one of your own cities or towns? Do you just give up because you got scared? Everyone's scared, whether they admit it or not.

Remember, you're probably very good friends with everyone in your unit. You trust them with your life, they trust you with their lives. So one of your 10 friends dies. Do you abandon the other 9? They're willing to stay to watch your back, but what do you do? Run?

There are some things larger and more important than yourself in life. Some people may disagree with that. They can go live in their own little country where people don't die for their freedom and way of life every single day.

UnRiggable
19-06-2006, 03:27
Remember, you're probably very good friends with everyone in your unit. You trust them with your life, they trust you with their lives. So one of your 10 friends dies. Do you abandon the other 9? They're willing to stay to watch your back, but what do you do? Run?

Communicate, man. "Dude, they've got banshees (halo) on us!" "Run back to the staging area!" As you can see, I know nothing vocabwise about war, but I imagine that you can tell your pals to get out of there before more pain is inflicted. Seroiusly, can we return to the thread?

Tanith Ghost
19-06-2006, 04:24
"It is the duty of all of us to remind those that forget just how horrific war is, lest we grow too fond of it"-Me

Robert E. Lee would be proud.

Sekhmet
19-06-2006, 04:33
Robert E. Lee would be proud.
Yeah, he would.



It is well that war is so terrible, lest we grow too fond of it.

Michaelius
19-06-2006, 05:20
That deployment reminds me of good old 3ed days and playing against blood angels rhino rush which was leaving opponent with 4 inch safety zone where blood rage and superchanged engines couldn't bring them on turn one.

Eduard
19-06-2006, 12:05
Well, it's intresting...I suppose. This is actually the first time i've seen something like that. Not sure what to think about it though.....

Lafeel Abriel
19-06-2006, 13:53
It better represent an army training with IR-simulators. Then they try to be superman (If the sergeant is not able to stop them that is), They moan when they are hit and have to play dead, and stand up after training an dust off their clothes, longin for a revenge on the gits of the other squad.

Trust me, I'm a sergeant in the swiss army, I've seen grown men far from beeing military freaks become little children playing superman when they should simulate real battlefield situations :)
I belive you, all right. War is a horrible thing, but sadly it would seem it is something we humans can never fully escape..Sorry about the high horse comments before, was not trying to offend anyone, not deliberately, at least.

Archival
19-06-2006, 14:10
and so instead of running you'd bite the dirt. AKA, pinning (which I think should give you a bonus to your cover save, 6+ for being in the open - 2+ for being in a bunker)

It takes one stupid/brave guy to be marching across a field, have his buddies chewed into toothpaste and keep marching rather than diving to the ground.

Well considering how cannon and musket wars were fought, you'd be amazed at how many people will keep moving forward. And let's not forget meat grinders like Verdun, and the rest of WW I.

Archival

Warlord Kyle
20-06-2006, 00:06
im as much a military fanatic/historian as the rest of you but back to 40K.
__________________________________________________ _______________
o te havok my barbed stranglers would cause....

Master Jeridian
20-06-2006, 00:28
Not much more to say.

That deployment is a little retarded. There's plenty of LOS blocking terrain to jump across to get closer to him. His army is also spread across the board edge, so you could attempt to take one flank and jump from cover to cover.

There's also the instant death in the unlikely event that a squad runs.

The comments that it's easy to put 25% casualties on every unit in one turn is IMO total ********, even for IG. My advice concentrate on 1 or 2 of the best targets to get them running.

Boo, Drop Pods, etc are all good ideas against this- but I must remind you, there is a difference between Tactics and Army List, many keep forgetting this. IMO tailoring your army list to beat this proves nothing beyond your ability to write army lists, using tactics with your non-tailored list is far more impressive.