PDA

View Full Version : Where's my Dark Eldar Codex??



Dranthar
19-06-2006, 09:57
[WARNING - MAY GET RANTISH]

Well here I am popping over to Warseer to check out the latest rumours and what do I see? Well aparently Chaos are in the pipeline for a new codex (possibly more than one ala space marines).

Well gee wizz, that's great for Chaos players everywhere, but what about my Dark Eldar? The poor, ugly bastard children of GW have had one codex since the beginning of 3rd ed., with a minor revision 2(?) years later, and there is still no sight of their much deserved revival.

So Chaos gets a third codex, Dark Eldar are still on version 1.5. :mad:

Seriously, how long do we have to wait before GW finally decides to give the Dark Eldar players a break? It's been what, 8 years now? :(

It's not as if the Dark Eldar are a crap race either. Sure the models are pretty poor on the whole, but what little background there is is great, and tactically they play like no other army in the game.

There is alot of potential for a great army here, yet it feels like GW are squandering it. :(

Vandur Last
19-06-2006, 10:24
Maybe they are questioning whether Dark Eldar should get thier own codex at all in the next edition/incarnation of 40K. Who knows how much they are going to mix up the Eldar? (Craftworld, Dark, Exodite and Harlequin included)
They may end up as a sub-list of the Eldar, a kind of Pirate-outcast variation.

Not to offend but i would not be too sorry to see them go if it means that it would allow them space to include Demiurge or some other more unique xenos.
Either that or they need to get rid of the "black and spikey were so eeeeviiil" look and publish a decent codex with alot of background fluff, like they used to in 2nd ed.

HPD_Andy
19-06-2006, 10:34
Hey look at it this way, the rest of us have had to shell out an extra $20-40 over the last couple of years to stay current and the DE codex from eight years ago is still totally current with a very viable/competative army list.

I will back you on the models tho...

Damien 1427
19-06-2006, 10:40
Well, look at it like this. If there's any justice, the Chaos Codex will just be a clean-up/update of the existing one to remove some of the more... abusable elements, and maybe tidy up the layout.

The Dark Eldar codex, to bring it into line with everyone else, will need a complete overhaul. New models (As the entire line needs redoing), new units, new wargear...

The potential new Codex Chaos will take barely a few months to do, most of which will be spent on new models. A new Dark Eldar codex, which is in the pipeline, is practically an entirely new race.

So yeah. Chaos may look like it's getting more love, but it's a "patch". The Dark Eldar book will be a whole new piece of software, if you get my meaning.

Dranthar
19-06-2006, 10:44
Not to offend but i would not be too sorry to see them go if it means that it would allow them space to include Demiurge or some other more unique xenos.

I would say that the Dark Eldar are already one of the more unique armies, both in playstyle and background. On the table they are a fast but very fragile army that can hit extremely hard in both HTH and shooting, but cannot take anywhere near as much punishment.

Background-wise, they are more than just evil/spiky Eldar (although I'll admit that the spikyness of some models needs to be reduced somewhat, as does some of the S&M feel). What they are is the most self serving, arrogant, and possibly short sighted race in the galaxy. They would not hesitate to stab their closest ally in the back and have no comprehension of the term 'honour'. To them, everything else is either prey or food and they will take what they want, when they want, regardless of the consequences to anybody else.

Chaos are evil, sure, but they are only evil because they serve the Gods (that and possibly also petty revenge :D ). Tyranids just eat, Orks are out to have a good fight, but the Dark Eldar...they are evil because they like it that way. To me, that is so much more interesting than the motivations for many of the other races.



So yeah. Chaos may look like it's getting more love, but it's a "patch". The Dark Eldar book will be a whole new piece of software, if you get my meaning.

Well that's nice and all, but it still doesn't wash out the bitter taste in my mouth. ;)

Ardathair
19-06-2006, 10:54
OK I'll rant.

Heard rumors about Dark Eldar since they created the Aspect Warriors and Craftworld armies just before second edition came out. It took GW 8 years to finally bring the Dark Eldar (back) into the game. When they did it was with what amounted to a rough draft of the rules and the minis.:wtf:

Even with what little GW has done for the Dark Eldar, they are still much closer to a rough draft than a polished product. With all those years to work on them, either make them a real army, not a work-in-progress, or don't include them in the first place.

As I recall, the Dark Eldar codex and minis, came out after a number of players scored well in Grand Tounaments using Eldar Armies with a Dark Eldar Theme. This demonstraited to GW that there was interest in the army before they risked any thing in putting it out. Since then GW has acted like they were forced to release it, (providing minimal rules, models and background aka fluff) and backing away from them.

Why are GW execs so lothe to listen to the demands of their customers? Isn't buisness about supply and demand? Or do GW execs figure that what ever they choose to supply will be in demand?

Brimstone
19-06-2006, 11:26
Why are GW execs so lothe to listen to the demands of their customers? Isn't buisness about supply and demand?

They do and it is which is why Chaos are more likely to get a revised codex before the Dark Eldar.

The other reasons why have already been pointed out to you.

boogle
19-06-2006, 11:33
the problem is, Dark Eldar need a revamp of Wood Elf/Chaos Dwarf proportions, both in models looks/concpets and background (as there currently isn't anything beyond 1 article in WD 240?, they haven't even really explained what happened to the DE post EOT) whereas Chaos doesn't require that much of a revamp in terms of minis, just a bit of expansion for the less well know stuff, therefore Chaos goes 1st and generates a lot more income that Dark Eldar ever will

Sareld
19-06-2006, 11:59
Why does people keep complaining about dark eldar? I have three dark eldar armies not, and I fail to see why their rules are in that great a need of an overhaul, not to menrion that most of our models are actually great. Sure, warriors without a helmet look goofy, but warriors with helmets, raiders, reavers and ravagers are amongst the greatest models in the game, and all other models can be converted with ease. I personally use converted fantasy dark elves for wyches, and they look smashing. DE are simply a great army in almost top shape.

Summary:

We have some of the coolest and most whrthwile units, wargear and ´playstyle... why do you want GW to screw that up?

Ironhand
19-06-2006, 12:10
The Eldar Codex has been confirmed for this fall, and the rumor that Dark Eldar and Eldar would be in one Codex has been frequently and thoroughly debunked.

The rumor mill seems to agree that Dark Angels and Orks will be the next two Codexes out, which takes us through summer 2007.

So my guess is the earliest you're going to see a new Dark Elf Codex is 2008, probably late 2008 if not 2009, due to the fact the devs have said they want to rework the whole concept of the race and models.

Until then, be glad you're not playing Squats. :)

Grand Master Raziel
19-06-2006, 12:33
Well, regarding the topic of whether or not the Dark Eldar model line needs a revamp...they say a picture is worth a thousand words. Here's three pictures, plus some bonus words.


http://www.tsoalr.com/view.php?date=2004-07-01

Dranthar
19-06-2006, 15:49
Summary:

We have some of the coolest and most whrthwile units, wargear and ´playstyle... why do you want GW to screw that up?

I completely agree with you about the Dark Eldars play style, and the competitiveness of the army list. But many of the models still blow (I generally like the warriors, but you can't possibly say that the grotesques aren't suitably named, and the only reason my mandrakes look good is it's paint job). The army list also lacks the sheer variety of other codexes and most importantly, I want some decent BACKGROUND!!! :D



They do and it is which is why Chaos are more likely to get a revised codex before the Dark Eldar.

The other reasons why have already been pointed out to you.

Just to stir the pot, wouldn't it make sense to release an army that few people already have models for?
A Chaos Codex may encourage more people to get a Chaos army, but existing players (and there are alot of them) are more likely to get the codex, maybe a box or two, and that's it. They already have an army of sweet-looking models, so why bother?

By contrast, a Dark Eldar will also encourage players to start a new Dark Eldar army (probably more than with Chaos, but that's difficult to argue), but existing Dark Eldar players are also much more likely to get a fair chunk of the new minis too. I know myself that despite allready having a rather large DE army, I'll still buy the codex, the big army box and whatever limited edition models they release along with it. That's at the minimum too.

Basically, I'm willing to bet that the potential sales profits from a Dark Eldar codex would be greater than what GW would get with a revised Chaos Codex.

Damien 1427
19-06-2006, 16:17
Thing is, the outlay will be much greater. The entire model range, except quite possibly the vehicles, needs to be redone, which takes a lot more time and money than plastic Chaos Terminators and making the Iron Warrior list less abuseable.
Some people may have a liking for the current range, but it seems the vast majority are turned off by them, as they're perhaps the fugliest basic troopers in the game, some terrible-looking officers and most of their special units are abominations. I'd argue the only models that sell well are Vects Slavegirls which show up in three our of every four Slaaneshi armies. :p

So yeah... Revising Codex Chaos, with a possible addition of Codex Lost and the Damned, is a lot cheaper and easier and will generate a decent level of sales, whilst revising Codex Dark Eldar, is a lot mroe expensive and time-consuming and whether it'll generate the required sales to justify the expense is debatable.

noneedforaname
19-06-2006, 17:27
There is nothing wrong with the current codex and with a decent paintjob and some conversions you can sort out some of the dodgy models. Take a look at the thread in my sig (WARNING BLATANT PLUG).

The one thing i think they could have done was to do a model for COD to show they aren't getting "squatted". Maybe the decapitator or a decent archon?

Damien 1427
19-06-2006, 17:38
Thing is, you can put a good paintjob on a bad mini, but the fact of the matter is despite your stellar brushwork, they're bad models. At least, to the point that the sales are apparently so bad that they're on the back burner behind everyone else. If they're to actually sell, unlike their last release, they need to be good.

robertsjf
19-06-2006, 17:47
Well, look at it like this. If there's any justice, the Chaos Codex will just be a clean-up/update of the existing one to remove some of the more... abusable elements, and maybe tidy up the layout.


Can we call it Chaos: Empires?

Dranthar
20-06-2006, 00:15
The one thing i think they could have done was to do a model for COD to show they aren't getting "squatted". Maybe the decapitator or a decent archon?

COD was, in my opinion, a wasted opportunity for the Dark Eldar. GW could have very easilly modelled and released a new Archon model, both to gauge interest in the Dark Eldar and to try out any new visual style for the Dark Eldar they're thinking of doing.

AmKhaibitu
20-06-2006, 03:54
They could have also finally released the Decapitator who I think would have been perfect for CoD.

The saga continues.

Shadowheart
20-06-2006, 05:46
I think it's better not to expect a new Dark Eldar Codex anymore. The situation the DE are in is very similar to that of the Squats in 2nd edition. Officially they might be up for an update in the distant future, but there's no way of telling whether GW means to make good on that promise or not. Unofficially, it seems that GW is uncomfortable with the current state of the army, but doesn't know how to change it, and can't be bothered to figure out. Less and less people will collect and play an army that is more and more outdated, which would once more make for a convenient arguement should GW drop them (nobody except a few utter fools liked that horrible army anyway).

It's true enough that updating every other army is easier, quicker and safer than redoing the DE. But the DE are the biggest job, and the most important one. Unwillingness to correct that most glaring shortcoming is, to me at least, a very clear and very bad sign. Given GW's history with the Squats I see no reason to give them the benefit of the doubt. In fact, given that history they should be doubly concerned with reassuring their customers, rather than stretching their patience and tolerance even further.

Calindor
20-06-2006, 06:25
I thought for a year or two ago that GW would totally drop the dark eldar and I was not sad to see it happends as the fluff was not for me. But in the last year I think Dark eldar armies has been in two or three battlereports which show that GW doesn´t at all forgot about them. That made me reread all the fluff and I got a second thought. So I think that GW will contuie to support the DE and will make a new codex. But as someone said, it will take a lot of effort and resources to make a new army and that will take time. I guess not before 2008 before a new one comes.

boogle
20-06-2006, 08:48
COD was, in my opinion, a wasted opportunity for the Dark Eldar. GW could have very easilly modelled and released a new Archon model, both to gauge interest in the Dark Eldar and to try out any new visual style for the Dark Eldar they're thinking of doing.
Sadly the releaseof one model would just inflame the situation, as there would be more of an outcry for more models and a codex than there is now due to the release of one model.

GW have their long term plan, from what i gather, Dark Eldar aren't being mentioned at the moment, this means that they aren't going to appear forthe next 4-5 years

GodofWarTx
20-06-2006, 08:53
er, i disagree about the new chaos books being a touch up. I expect a major rewrite in the way chaos plays. Now they play like marines, but evil. I think a full integration of LatD into chaos, which would go to a more conventional view of chaos as not being something completely run by marines.

Hordes of mutants and demons with elite chaos space marine elements acting as the backbone. Thats fairly different than today's look on them.


IMO, the Dark Eldar are extremely competitive gaming wise, but i would agree their models need updating. What i think needs to be done is an expansion of the development team outside of the very few people who run things to speed up the process. With the rules element sped up, it should match the increase in model production that should (and better) have occured with GW's multi-million dollar computer design and molding process.

Forgotmytea
20-06-2006, 09:00
Why does people keep complaining about dark eldar? I have three dark eldar armies not, and I fail to see why their rules are in that great a need of an overhaul, not to menrion that most of our models are actually great. Sure, warriors without a helmet look goofy, but warriors with helmets, raiders, reavers and ravagers are amongst the greatest models in the game, and all other models can be converted with ease. I personally use converted fantasy dark elves for wyches, and they look smashing. DE are simply a great army in almost top shape.

Summary:

We have some of the coolest and most whrthwile units, wargear and playstyle... why do you want GW to screw that up?
I'm personally with this dude. Look at the new possessed, for example - do we really want models like that!? Ok, I will admit that the Archons, Wyches, Grotesques, Haemonoculuses, mandrakes (actually, with a good paint job, they're not too bad! :)) and Warp Beasts are slightly ... erm....unique models, but on the whole (warriors, scourges, Incubi *drools*) the model range and codex is rather good in my opinion.


why do you want GW to screw that up?
:D True

-Forgotmytea

boogle
20-06-2006, 09:01
IMO, the Dark Eldar are extremely competitive gaming wise, but i would agree their models need updating. What i think needs to be done is an expansion of the development team outside of the very few people who run things to speed up the process. With the rules element sped up, it should match the increase in model production that should (and better) have occured with GW's multi-million dollar computer design and molding process.
sadly GW seem to be downsizing their development team even more now

Gen.Steiner
20-06-2006, 09:14
I'd argue the only models that sell well are Vects Slavegirls which show up in three our of every four Slaaneshi armies.

Guilty as charged... :D

Seriously, though, I'd happily finish my Kabal off if it wasn't for the fact that I'm a Guardsman through and through.

I have no problem with the Dark Eldar range barring the Grotesques (because they are) and the Haemonculi. The reaver jetbikes are swish, the Wyches pretty cool... one issue people might have is that they're Dark Elves in Space, but then the Eldar are pretty much Elves in Space, and Orks are Orcs in Space. So that's not really a problem.

The codex is ****-poor, and really does deserve a proper update a la Imperial Guard (who have had three codexes since the first 3rd Edition one, as opposed to Dark Eldar... whose 'dex came out before the first Guard one... d'oh!) and Chaos.

Unfortunately, everyone and their pet parakeet plays Space Marines of one stripe or another, and so we'll get Codex: Space Marine Variant Number 10,293 before we get Codex: Hey Woah Slightly Out-There Xenos Race.

jansuza
20-06-2006, 12:10
It would be nice for DE to get a bit of variation. Currently the good choices in DE are too obvious, and only a handful of crazy people play with things like grotesques and hellions.

Some models could use a remake badly, but some are still great after 8 years of nothing new (ravager/incubi/talos). The wyches could have such cool models, but we have to settle for the slightly nice ones (one thing they definately have to fix is the male wyches. NO MALE WYCHES DAMMIT!)

GW will probably throw us another bone eventually, just to keep the rowdy one's from causing too much kak. They'll use the update as an excuse to not give us anything for another while, and then one day, in the far far future, they'll make up their minds and either give us a dex, or scrap us off. By that time, we should have an organized resistance ready to blow up GW Nottingham should they try and scrap us.

Vive le Dark Eldar!

Forgotmytea
20-06-2006, 12:20
It would be nice for DE to get a bit of variation. Currently the good choices in DE are too obvious, and only a handful of crazy people play with things like grotesques and hellions.
That's me :D


Some models could use a remake badly, but some are still great after 8 years of nothing new (ravager/incubi/talos). The wyches could have such cool models, but we have to settle for the slightly nice ones (one thing they definately have to fix is the male wyches. NO MALE WYCHES DAMMIT!)
Yeah, the grotesques especially, but not the Incubi :evilgrin: They were actually one of the reasons I started collecting Dark Eldar. Gotta love those models.


GW will probably throw us another bone eventually, just to keep the rowdy one's from causing too much kak. They'll use the update as an excuse to not give us anything for another while, and then one day, in the far far future, they'll make up their minds and either give us a dex, or scrap us off.
Sad, but unfortunatley true. Some new updates like the vehicle add-ons they did some time ago just to pacify us :(.


By that time, we should have an organized resistance ready to blow up GW Nottingham should they try and scrap us.
:evilgrin: My cultists are in place...we await only your orders, sir.


Vive le Dark Eldar!
Damn right! And death to those who oppose us!

-Forgotmytea

Ironhand
20-06-2006, 12:53
I agree with GodofWarTx that the Chaos redo is almost certainly not going to be a quick touch-up along the lines of the recent Tau book. Current rumor has the Chaos Codex being split into multiple books, and that means new content and a substantial reworking of the existing content.

Icarus
20-06-2006, 13:09
GW have their long term plan, from what i gather, Dark Eldar aren't being mentioned at the moment, this means that they aren't going to appear forthe next 4-5 years

In the various Eldar rumours threads there have been rumours that there are some very specific plans for Dark Eldar, from the same people who gave us what turned out to be accurate information. Admittedly its not much, and if something happens it likely won't happen for a while, but it suggests that they're not entirely done for.

The success of things like the Harlequins entry in the new Eldar list may also influence these things. GW seems to be testing the water with what people want from the Eldar, and if anything other than Craftworlds are popular.

Kriegsherr
20-06-2006, 13:31
Hmm.... I for my part would like mostly a massive fluff overhaul for the DE. As it stands, they are just not important enough to get their own dex IMHO. Drop the IMO stupid comorragh idea, make them some kind of eldar pirate that attack from different hidden planets or asteroids or whatever. Just not the "One City, some tousand DE, but the whole galaxy trembles in fear before them".

Then, and with new, shiny, evillocking dark eldar minis I might even get excited over new DE.
But I'll be so much more excited if they do witchworld eldar.... so much potential not used until now.
Twisted, Mutated and utterly insane, Slaanesh-loving eldar... Or maybe even twisted, mutated, utterly insane, but seeking redemption for their sins by fighting chaos and slaanesh?

Hell, They should do a second eldar dex with harlequs, DE, Exodites, Pirates and witchworld eldar in it. But thats wishful thinking I know :)

But to be honest: If the.... uhm.... voices in my head say i MUST buy some new eldar, they certainly get a massive conversion into witchworld eldar. Maybe using zombie heads on eldar bodies? tentacles? or just painting the faces white with glowing evil eyes?

Sir_Turalyon
20-06-2006, 14:29
We have some of the coolest and most whrthwile units, wargear and playstyle... why do you want GW to screw that up?


*Friendly taps Sareld on shoulder with left hand for speaking the truth and puts a knife in Sareld's back with right hand for posting it befoire me*

My thoughts exactly.

Ian
20-06-2006, 16:38
I think the current codex is pretty good rules wise. Hard to get to grips with, but incredibly rewarding. I have a feeling the if GW redid the codex, they would make them "harder" and, well, screw them up. They could easily put some background info in WD meanwhile. And as for new models, with all the new eldar stuff coming out it looks as if converting decent characters and such wont be such a problem for people not so hot on converting, like me. Its a shame we wont get that "new models are coming out!" excited feeling like the other races get, for probably a long time. Rats.

Grand Master Raziel
20-06-2006, 16:57
I'd argue the only models that sell well are Vects Slavegirls which show up in three our of every four Slaaneshi armies. :p


Heck, I bitz-ordered Vect's Slavegirls and put them on round bases to use as Loot counters for Secure And Control games. Funny how those two make players eager to play Secure And Control! By the way, did you ever notice that the one with the SOB bangs is hiding a knife behind her back?

Anyway, the slave girls notwithstanding, I think that some DE enthusiasts are fooling themselves in regards to the potential amount of interest a revamp of the DE army would bring. I doubt that the evil space elf schtick has that broad an appeal. That isn't to say that GW should ignore the DE or drop them altogether. However, getting worked up over GW not considering them as important better-selling armies is not going to do you any good. On the bright side, DE are highly competitive, so it's not like the codex needs updating. The fact that the DE players in recent articles of WD have played their armies like monkeys with brain tumors should not reflect on the list itself (I think I'll try and hold positions in the open by weathering Tau firepower with the fragilest troops in the game! That ought to work!). The model range is admittedly appalling, but there are at least some units that you could model by taking Fantasy Dark Elf models and putting them on round bases. The Fantasy Dark Elf figures are pretty nice.

Tymell
21-06-2006, 06:10
although I'll admit that the spikyness of some models needs to be reduced somewhat, as does some of the S&M feel

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!! That's my favourite part! :D

Gen.Steiner
21-06-2006, 23:59
By the way, did you ever notice that the one with the SOB bangs is hiding a knife behind her back?

It's actually one of the spines off the Dais of Destruction - she's snapped it off and is about to use it to knife one of the Incubi. If you look at the Dais, you'll see the starboard spikes are missing one... that's the 'knife' she's got.

Souleater
22-06-2006, 10:00
I think that some DE enthusiasts are fooling themselves in regards to the potential amount of interest a revamp of the DE army would bring. I doubt that the evil space elf schtick has that broad an appeal.

Depends. As you say SM are overwhelmingly popular. This tends to overshadow everything else.

I think if the figures are good enough then evil space elves could sell very well. They're evil, and they're elves. I think they could be as popular as DE in Fantasy if done well. (obviously taking into account that I'm talking of non-MEQ armies, here. I doubt SM will ever be toppled :( )