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Holier Than Thou
08-05-2016, 16:11
Hi guys, I'm going to be starting a Mordheim campaign in the summer with my friends and am torn between two lists. We'll be using official and unofficial material.

My first list is

Vampire with 2 x swords, bow, light armour
Necromancer
Dregs x 3 all with spears
Dire Wolf
Ghouls x 3
Zombies x 3

My second list uses the Bloodlines rules

Blood Dragon Vampire with same load out
Dregs x 2 with spears
Dreg with double handed weapon
Dire Wolf
Ghouls x 3
Zombies x 5

The second list makes my Vampire even more of a badass and improves the Dregs slightly plus adds 2 more zombies but the Bloodline doesn't allow access to magic so I lose the Necromancer (the actual magic spells aren't very powerful but I think they would add something different to games).

What do people think of both lists?

MasterSparks
10-05-2016, 08:36
Hello there!

Both lists look OK, although I'm pretty sure that the second one is stronger. I've never used the bloodlines but the necromancer and his magic is rarely a big deal, so losing out on it isn't that bad. Similarly, zombies don't really mesh well with the fast moving strategy that a CC warband needs but they're fun and if there's any time and place where they should be used it's at the start of a campaign. You can add a bow to the necromancer in the first list to make use of his BS3, and also throw a shield on the vampire for cheap additional armour against shooting.

Count Marius
11-05-2016, 13:28
Hey,

2 Swords on the Vampire is overkill - You're only able to parry one attack by having a sword & having two doesn't give you a re-roll on that parry like a buckler does. Drop one sword in favour of his free dagger - whilst the dagger may give a +1 to opponent saves, the -1 from still being a S4 hit cancels that out. Consider giving him a club as a replacement second weapon later on as its concussion rule can certainly help shorten fights & keep your vamp alive and earning exp.

I'm also curious about your interpretation of the 'Warrior Code' Rule. Whilst it states that the vampire may not use magic (even with use of the book of the damned), I'd not taken it to mean that the warband itself couldn't contain magic users (like the necromancer). Whilst I'd agree that your interpretation is probably more fluffy - It could be argued that it would also bring into question whether you should be able to include zombies (fluff wise anyway - since they're magically reanimated corpses) in the warband.

As a seperate point - I've also had the discussion re whether the bloodlines are overpowered or not (as expected, people have varying opinions). My personal view re the blood dragon bloodline in particular is that whilst the +2 WS on the vampire seems like a big deal, it's actually the +1 WS on the dregs that's actually the biggest buff. Whilst your vamp will be able to hit most (if not all) people on 3+ & only be hit back on 5+ (by most henchmen types & all the basic youngblood-type heroes), being able to hit some henchmen on 3+ & everyone else on 4+ whilst getting hit back on 4+ most of the time rather than 3+ is a big boost to dregs. The ability to re-roll the first failed rout test is also a big boost (combine with an unholy relic for some staying power), however the fact that you're unable to voluntarily rout unless the vamp has been taken out of action could be a big issue, as theoretically you could have your entire warband except the vampire in a position to be taken out of action & still not be able to make a run for it. This would obviously cause problems when doing the exploration phase & you'd have a maximum of one hero available to be sent out exploring. In an ongoing campaign, this could lead to a large disadvantage after only a game or two.

If I were doing a Blood Dragon warband (and accepted the no-magic of any kind premise), I'd try the following:-

Vampire - Sword, Dagger, Bow
Dreg x2 - Halberds
Dreg - Sword & Club
Ghoul x2
Ghoul x2
Dire Wolf x2

Use the ghouls as screening cover for the dregs - most people will think twice about charging for fear of being counter charged by the dreg & unless you're up against multiple crossbows, the T4 gives them a reasonable chance of staying on their feet against most other things. You can either use the wolves & vampire together or as flanking threats to take out lone targets. This also give you 10 bodies, meaning you'll only start taking rout tests once three have been taken out of action - & that shouldn't be straight forward for your opponents.

If you're looking at a regular Undead warband, then I'd suggest the following:-

Vampire - Sword, Club, Bow
Necromancer - Dagger, Bow
Dreg - Halberd
Dreg x2 - Club x2
Ghouls x2
Ghouls x2
Direwolf
Warlock

This is very similar to what I'm actually using in our local campaign. The vampire is nasty once he gets into combat & has a good chance of stunning opponents, making them easy targets for the next round of combat (forcing your opponent to commit more bodies to save the ones on the ground or give them up). With 2 attacks, the club dregs should have a chance of getting some stuns in to make taking out opponents easier. The ghouls should provide cover with their T4 to try & (provided you're not reckless & don't use cover) absorb any shooting coming your way & to use their 2 attacks to do the same as the club dregs. The halberd dreg should mop up any knocked down opponents that present themselves (since you only need to wound a knocked down opponent to take them out S4 & auto hitting can really help). The Direwolf does what you'd expect - Roam around & threaten lone models from range (an 18" charge is always something to fear, particularly for archers & again makes your opponent decide whether to split his forces to protect the supporting units or to leave them exposed). Lastly the Necro & Warlock - whilst the Necro has the potential to get a totally useless spell, the bow will make sure he can still be relevant in the game & his presence will keep the warband going in the event the vamp bites it. The warlock will most likely be your primary caster (tho only gains experience like a henchman annoyingly!) as the Lesser Magic spells are almost all usefull & he gets 2 of them to start. Silver arrows in particular can be devastating if you roll well & fireball causes a S4 auto hit which is very useful against low toughness opponents. The only slightly dubious spell is number 5. He's well worth the low upkeep cost for what he can provide however.

Anyway, I've rambled long enough :-)

Holier Than Thou
12-05-2016, 08:28
Thanks for the replies. I think I'm going to go with the first list, just for the potential to recruit my opponent's dead heroes as zombies. It'll be hilarious if it happens.

With regards to taking a buckler, is the parry reroll worth more than an extra attack? (I'm guessing you can't use 2 weapons AND a buckler?) I'm probably going to be attacking first most of the time and hopefully won't need to parry too many return blows. Interesting idea about using a mace, maybe sword and mace? Combined with Strike to Injure, that's a guaranteed stun, isn't it?

Edit: Just noticed the buckler isn't available as starting equipment for undead so that solves that problem.

Holier Than Thou
01-06-2016, 15:28
Rather than start a new topic, I'll just tag this additional question on.

Does anyone know if the Witch hired sword is from an official publication or is it fan made content?

Thanks

Dragonhunter
01-06-2016, 19:55
Rather than start a new topic, I'll just tag this additional question on.

Does anyone know if the Witch hired sword is from an official publication or is it fan made content?

Thanks

The Witch came with Town Cryer 13!

Yodhrin
01-06-2016, 20:47
Rather than start a new topic, I'll just tag this additional question on.

Does anyone know if the Witch hired sword is from an official publication or is it fan made content?

Thanks

Honestly I wouldn't bother about that very much, most of the stuff that came from "official" sources outwith the rulebook were pretty much just fan rules written by people who happened to work at GW, and had just as little playtesting before being made public - and that's an endorsement of the quality of fan rules for Mordheim, by the way, not a denigration of the "official" material; it's rare you'll come across fan rules for Mordheim that are overpowered(although sometimes they'll be the reverse) because it's been curated as a system by the community for so long that most folk willing to put their name on something and upload it genuinely want to add something for people to enjoy rather than give themselves a stick to beat their gaming buddies with.

But yes, the Witch comes from Town Cryer magazine originally so is "official" in that sense.

Holier Than Thou
01-06-2016, 21:38
Brilliant, thanks guys for the speedy replies.