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Prokrustes
27-05-2016, 11:46
I have just read up again on the fluff of Constant Drachenfels due to the new DLC for Vermintide (Castle Drachenfels).
Now, I must say Drachenfels is an amazing and totally awesome villain. Poison Feast... how much more evil can you get? :shifty:
Given that he is the oldest being in all of the old world (living before the arrival of the slann) he must have accumulated vast knowledge of pretty much everything.
However, he doesnt seem to try to ascend to godhood or feel like eradicating all living beings like Nagash.
Is it actually ever explained how he got his powers in the first place?

After reading about the whole "the Nameless" stuff in the end times I was wondering how he compares to Nagash in power levels? (well, at the height of his power with memories...)

blackcherry
27-05-2016, 14:46
Drachenfels was one of those characters from the early days of Warhammer Fantasy that has disappeared in time and sort of been quietly forgotten about. I prefer to think of him as one of the worlds powers that affects the world but isn't really known about (like Ungoliant in the LotR verse).

Arnizipal
28-05-2016, 14:48
Drachenfels suffers from the fact that he's pretty much one giant evil mage cliché.
He doesn't have any long term plans or purpose, he just does evil for the lolz.
I guess that's the reason he was mostly forgotten about.

In terms of power I think he rivals Nagash, though maybe not Nagash at the peak of his abilities.

dirach.
28-05-2016, 19:19
In the end times books there is this "namless" character or something like that. I think he was thought of as Drachenfels even if he wasn´t called by that name.

Dreadaxe
28-05-2016, 19:29
In the end times books there is this "namless" character or something like that. I think he was thought of as Drachenfels even if he wasn´t called by that name.
http://ask.fm/JoshMReynolds/answers/121775578335 (http://ask.fm/JoshMReynolds/answers/121775578335)


Q: Can you confirm the Nameless is 100% Drachenfels?
Josh Reynold: Sure.

Urgat
29-05-2016, 12:08
http://ask.fm/JoshMReynolds/answers/121775578335 (http://ask.fm/JoshMReynolds/answers/121775578335)

Where can I see all the questions?

Griefbringer
29-05-2016, 12:52
Back in the day, White Dwarf had an article which featured WFRP (1st edition) stats for some of the main characters from the Drachenfels novel - including mister Drachenfels himself. I have that copy somewhere in my collection.

Arnizipal
29-05-2016, 16:19
He also has stats in the Castle Drachenfells adventure for WFRPv1, but those don't really translate well to WFB...

Dreadaxe
29-05-2016, 22:27
Where can I see all the questions?

http://ask.fm/JoshMReynolds
http://www.warhammer-forum.com/index.php?showtopic=238545 (http://ask.fm/JoshMReynolds)

Urgat
30-05-2016, 18:50
Thank you :)

Prokrustes
31-05-2016, 13:10
Drachenfels suffers from the fact that he's pretty much one giant evil mage cliché.
He doesn't have any long term plans or purpose, he just does evil for the lolz.
I guess that's the reason he was mostly forgotten about.

In terms of power I think he rivals Nagash, though maybe not Nagash at the peak of his abilities.

Well fluffwise he seems to be the more awesome version of Vandal Savage from DC. Having existed for so long and already being tremendously powerful, I am not quiet sure what goal he can have except for entertainment. Ruling an empire, being worshipped, etc. probably a case of been there, done that... So I dont find him that cliché like. However, in a setting like Warhammer I guess you are right, he would need some overarching goal...like Nagash's desire for godhood.


Back in the day, White Dwarf had an article which featured WFRP (1st edition) stats for some of the main characters from the Drachenfels novel - including mister Drachenfels himself. I have that copy somewhere in my collection.

A scan or a link to that would go a long way and be very much appreciated ;-)

Urgat
31-05-2016, 16:50
http://ask.fm/JoshMReynolds
(http://ask.fm/JoshMReynolds)http://www.warhammer-forum.com/index.php?showtopic=238545


Nice to have a final fate for Amon Shakai, even if it's non-official. It somewhat justifies how he got replaced by Kairos despite him being more powerful.
I raised an eyebrow at the mention of Malal, but heh :p

Lord Malorne
31-05-2016, 20:18
http://ask.fm/JoshMReynolds
http://www.warhammer-forum.com/index.php?showtopic=238545 (http://ask.fm/JoshMReynolds)


Erg reading that thread is kind of sad, I always hated skaven as an army and a concept.

Arnizipal
31-05-2016, 21:44
A scan or a link to that would go a long way and be very much appreciated ;-)
I can get you the statline from the WFRPv1 adventure, but like I said, it's a bit abstract when compared to the statline of WFB.

Griefbringer
01-06-2016, 09:42
As for that old WD article, I have not yet managed to dig enough to my collection to find the particular issue - but it is somewhere around 120.

Griefbringer
02-06-2016, 06:17
After some digging, I found the WD in question - it is issue 117, with stats for Drachenfels (as he was in 2480 IC) himself on page 31. Looks like he could quite easily wipe the floor with any bunch of adventurers going after him. The same article also features WFRP stats for several of the other important characters from the same book.

Urgat
02-06-2016, 06:36
Btw, on topic: Nameless -> pawn, and Nagash -> boss in ET, so I guess it should be self explanatory. If Drachenfells was anywhere near Nagash's power, he wouldn't let himself be ordered around, I suppose?

Prokrustes
02-06-2016, 08:27
Btw, on topic: Nameless -> pawn, and Nagash -> boss in ET, so I guess it should be self explanatory. If Drachenfells was anywhere near Nagash's power, he wouldn't let himself be ordered around, I suppose?

He can remember squat about who he is and what he can do and blah. So I guess it isnt that easy... And if Nagash could simply dominate him like he did with his other Mortarchs, what would be the point of not telling him who he is? Even Vlad doesnt want to tell him... Looking at it from this angle, maybe they are scared of what he could do if he would be aware of his full power? Like the shy massive guy in school. If he realized that he is bigger and stronger than the bullies he could swat them..
However, if I remember correctly, Nagash binds the wind of death into himself at some point and thats where things get awry... Then again, Drachenfels won a staring competition against the chaos gods...

Captain Marius
04-06-2016, 20:19
Didnt the Nameless get defeated by the willpower of Luther Huss in the end... Just sayin!

Athelassan
05-06-2016, 13:23
I have just read up again on the fluff of Constant Drachenfels due to the new DLC for Vermintide (Castle Drachenfels).
Now, I must say Drachenfels is an amazing and totally awesome villain. Poison Feast... how much more evil can you get? :shifty:
Given that he is the oldest being in all of the old world (living before the arrival of the slann) he must have accumulated vast knowledge of pretty much everything.
However, he doesnt seem to try to ascend to godhood or feel like eradicating all living beings like Nagash.
Is it actually ever explained how he got his powers in the first place?

After reading about the whole "the Nameless" stuff in the end times I was wondering how he compares to Nagash in power levels? (well, at the height of his power with memories...)
I think he's having too much fun in the mortal realm to bother with any of that "ascension" or "conquer the world" malarkey. In his eponymous novel it's suggested that he kind of looks down on the Chaos gods as amateurs.

He got his powers initially through "human" sacrifice; he started out extending his lifespan by killing one of his fellows and eating his eyes and worked upwards from there. (Since this was before the Slann, of course, the people in question weren't strictly speaking human). As to how he compares to Nagash, it's debatable. Both characters are pretty similar in broad strokes (ancient sorcerers who invented their discipline, almost impossible to kill permanently, spend most of their time brooding in their castles, operating through agents, etc.) to the extent that I think Nagash was an attempt to update the concept once the world became a bit better defined and "factionalised" in 4th edition and later. I'd say they're probably comparable in power level.

Dreadaxe
05-06-2016, 14:19
After some digging, I found the WD in question - it is issue 117, with stats for Drachenfels (as he was in 2480 IC) himself on page 31. Looks like he could quite easily wipe the floor with any bunch of adventurers going after him. The same article also features WFRP stats for several of the other important characters from the same book.

https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=372D22EB35240735!2090&authkey=!AFMqfQnqEhipzzU&ithint=file%2cpdf

Dreadaxe
05-06-2016, 14:24
Nice to have a final fate for Amon Shakai, even if it's non-official. It somewhat justifies how he got replaced by Kairos despite him being more powerful.
I raised an eyebrow at the mention of Malal, but heh :p
;)

https://ask.fm/JoshMReynolds/answers/126443791583

Amon'chakai was the greater daemon responsible for luring the man-god Sigmar into the Vortex, after his deification. Tzeentch feared the havoc a young, powerful god might cause--Sigmar, ever the uniter, might have brought together the gods of men, elves and dwarfs in an alliance against the Chaos powers, once he became used to his newfound state of being. Thus Amon'chakai and Kairos Fateweaver were dispatched to lure the newly deified Sigmar into a prison from which he would never escape.
Unfortunately, while Amon'chakai was cunning enough to get Sigmar in, he wasn't cunning enough to escape, and was dragged into the maelstrom of magic by the fierce man-god, where he was subsequently torn apart. Kairos Fateweaver took his place as Tzeentch's vizier. Some in the Court of Change whisper that it was Kairos who engineered his rival's fall, and that Sigmar's deification was but one cog in a greater scheme...

Kaleb Daark power!!
http://ask.fm/JoshMReynolds/answers/129969247455

[Kaleb Daark(malal paladin)], he'd have been in the background somewhere, killing Archaon's lieutenants and servants. His presences might have grown so annoying that Archaon might have stirred from his throne to deal with the renegade himself...

Lord Malorne
05-06-2016, 15:34
Didnt the Nameless get defeated by the willpower of Luther Huss in the end... Just sayin!

True but that's not exactly a comparison of power, possesion and the resistance to it is like saying someone who can run really fast should be able to swim underwater for a long time, just because they are great runners does not mean they can breathe underwater.

BattleofLund
08-06-2016, 00:59
He can remember squat about who he is and what he can do and blah. So I guess it isnt that easy... And if Nagash could simply dominate him like he did with his other Mortarchs, what would be the point of not telling him who he is? Even Vlad doesnt want to tell him... Looking at it from this angle, maybe they are scared of what he could do if he would be aware of his full power? Like the shy massive guy in school. If he realized that he is bigger and stronger than the bullies he could swat them.

This sounds very much like the Monster in the Darkness from OOTS.

228282

(Disclaimer: I've been sort-of-a-fan of Constant Drachenfels since I read and re-read (and over) Drachenfels in the 1990s.)

Urgat
08-06-2016, 06:39
He can remember squat about who he is and what he can do and blah. So I guess it isnt that easy... And if Nagash could simply dominate him like he did with his other Mortarchs, what would be the point of not telling him who he is?
If he has a chance of even proving to be a slight bother, why bother telling him his name at all? You're not going to let a raging mouse go wild in your house just because you can stomp it. It's going to be a nuisance and you want no nuisance, no matter how small. Nagash already has enough problems dealing with Mannfred and friends w/o adding yet another burdden to the list.
Now he's no mouse, he's a mortarch, Nagash didn't pick him for no reason. No doubt he is horribly powerful, and no doubt they all prefer him under control.


Even Vlad doesnt want to tell him... Looking at it from this angle, maybe they are scared of what he could do if he would be aware of his full power? Like the shy massive guy in school. If he realized that he is bigger and stronger than the bullies he could swat them..
See above.

Razios
09-06-2016, 03:49
I remenber someone ask who would win between drachnelf and Nagash and he chose the latter, saying "Drach like to play, Nagash like to win" and in way is true, constant is bore and want to play in his morebly sense of humor, Nagash is pretty much "NO FUN ALLOW" guy, he will unleash everything on him

Prokrustes
10-06-2016, 10:16
I think he's having too much fun in the mortal realm to bother with any of that "ascension" or "conquer the world" malarkey. In his eponymous novel it's suggested that he kind of looks down on the Chaos gods as amateurs.

He got his powers initially through "human" sacrifice; he started out extending his lifespan by killing one of his fellows and eating his eyes and worked upwards from there. (Since this was before the Slann, of course, the people in question weren't strictly speaking human). As to how he compares to Nagash, it's debatable. Both characters are pretty similar in broad strokes (ancient sorcerers who invented their discipline, almost impossible to kill permanently, spend most of their time brooding in their castles, operating through agents, etc.) to the extent that I think Nagash was an attempt to update the concept once the world became a bit better defined and "factionalised" in 4th edition and later. I'd say they're probably comparable in power level.

This makes him very intruiging and awesome! Just ordered the book!
The thing I find annoying with Nagash is a) He seems to be a bad copy of Vecna (Hand of Vecna/Hand of Dust - Undead and trying to ascend to godhood, blah blah) and b) I never found any meaningful reason why he wants everybody dead. Is it just to control them? Well I sorta find Nagash a bit bland. I guess originally he was supposed to be like Sauron... ancient evil lurking far off in the distant and pulling some strings somewhere..


I remenber someone ask who would win between drachnelf and Nagash and he chose the latter, saying "Drach like to play, Nagash like to win" and in way is true, constant is bore and want to play in his morebly sense of humor, Nagash is pretty much "NO FUN ALLOW" guy, he will unleash everything on him

Best Argument so far...


If he has a chance of even proving to be a slight bother, why bother telling him his name at all? You're not going to let a raging mouse go wild in your house just because you can stomp it. It's going to be a nuisance and you want no nuisance, no matter how small. Nagash already has enough problems dealing with Mannfred and friends w/o adding yet another burdden to the list.
Now he's no mouse, he's a mortarch, Nagash didn't pick him for no reason. No doubt he is horribly powerful, and no doubt they all prefer him under control.


See above.

I havent read all the End Time books but couldnt Nagash just snap his fingers and banish him in his staff like he did with Zacharias or easily crush him like Settra if he is so much more powerful? I mean how on earth did he get the idea that making Settra a mortarch would work out in the first place?
And yes, I wouldnt let a mouse rampage through my house, because I cant make the mouse explode through force of my will. So... I guess Nagash couldnt just handwave Drachenfels in submission.
But I absolutely see your point there.

Urgat
10-06-2016, 22:49
Just to say that unless my memory betrays me, Nagash didn't make Settra a mortarch. Nagash had no hold on the TK undead, especially not Settra.
As for the staff comment, well, maybe. But Nagash needed his pawns. Zacharias wouldn't accept to serve Nagash, so Nagash did away with him. The Nameless One did serve, therefore he was too valuable to sacrify (unless in last resort, no doubt). It's nice to see a villain who doesn't just eliminate his smallhand just because he's evil (doing it with an evil "see, I'm the villain, I wear skulls, my name sounds evil, yes! I'm a villain!" laughter). He made do with what he had. Nagash relationship with his mortachs, I would say, could be accurately described as "damage control", really. I thought it was pretty cool.

Razios
12-06-2016, 00:14
Nagash objective can be resumed in "Ok guy, I have the best idea to beat chaos: everyone just need to die and be my servant.....why are you look me like that?" he is lawfull evil to Drachnelf neutral one and chaos gods....chaotic evil(dah!)