AoS: Who remembers the world that was?

[MOMUS]

Does anyone remember the world that was?

The (previously) Incarnates? Nagash? Archaon perhaps?

[Buddy Bear]

I'd assume everyone who was there remembers it. So if they existed in Warhammer Fantasy, then they remember it.

[Ben]

It's weird because people talk about Sigmar reincarnating some souls, but since several thousand years of history happens between Sigmar arriving on the space station and Sigmar starting his war against Chaos, does he just keep a big jar of souls around for thousands of years after getting there? Do people continually reincarnate?
I know the explanation for people continuing to be able to use their models is that people in the new background are LARPing as people in the old background, but given Sigmar wasn't around for much of the history of the old world how would anyone be able to tell the new people about it?

You can probably bet against Nagash writing a book called 'The uniforms of Stirland' so how do these people know anything about the Old World?

It just doesn't make any sense because of the time jump. Either Sigmar kept souls from the Old World trapped for thousands of years, which isn't a very good guy thing to do, or it's just doesn't make any sense at all.

[Buddy Bear]

I get the impression that the people he's making into Sigmarines are people from the Mortal Realms, and not necessarily people from the Old World, but I'm not sure about that.

[Thommy H]

There are survivors from the Old World in Azyr, still hanging around because there are places where time flows strangely. Sigmar and the Aelves in the Eldritch Council know who they are, but don't talk about it. A lot of the Chaos and Death special characters are presumably the same people, preserved by the gods or Nagash. Krell survived too, funnily enough, as he's mentioned in the Death Grand Alliance book (there's a Wight King known as the Lord of Despair who's said to be older than the Age of Myth) though his model is now a generic character.

For things like the various gods - Alarielle, Tyrion, etc., I think they're a bit more like reincarnations. They were mostly Incarnates of the Winds of Magic when the world ended and since we can assume the Mortal Realms were birthed from those Winds, they're perhaps avatars of their Realms with some measure of their original identities grafted on. I doubt Alarielle has a clear recollection of her whole existence from Life goddess of the Sylvaneth to Everqueen of Ulthuan though.

As for uniforms and stuff like that: it's just a conceit to let you keep using your models. The Freeguild Regiments just happen to look like the armies of a nation that was destroyed thousands of years ago. It's a bit daft, but no more daft than the Imperial Guard in 40K looking like Cossacks or Vietnam-era GIs. Just pretend it's a coincidence, or come up with a way that your particular army survived by being dragged into the Realm of Chaos or something.

[veterannoob]

I'm only about halfway through the fic/fluff but my understanding of it is Sigmar, Archaon and Nagash (at least) pulled through and set about rebuilding strength. Since the realm of Chaos bridged the world that was to the Nine Realms we know here it was much easier for the naughty-naughty boys to come though, though some armies and societies made it and over the ages have passed on generations to what we have now. But war decimated so much of the population or hounds the men that they either run, join up or die. Or all three. Powerful souls, like incarnates and Mortarchs and Morathi (maybe?) came through but not without damage as they manifested in these new "infinite" realms.

Siggy takes humans who did good to his reforging though they don't come back whole, lesser each time so that's a fun element to the fic. Also they must eat, sleep, potty, as such. Fun mention about being the first Stormcast to die of hunger :) Background is still coming out and getting developed. I bet the Mortal Realms guys or Heelanhammer would have more detailed info on the fluff.

[Col. Tartleton]

Its fairly equivalent to who remembered the ancient times in the world that was. A handful of very old beings, some chaos such as Kholek, some order such as Malerion, and some death such as Arkhan. Destruction faction characters tend not to live very long. Skarsnik was the oldest and largest Goblin and he was only man sized.

[stroller]

Was? I'm still playing in it.

[Yodhrin]

As for uniforms and stuff like that: it's just a conceit to let you keep using your models. The Freeguild Regiments just happen to look like the armies of a nation that was destroyed thousands of years ago. It's a bit daft, but no more daft than the Imperial Guard in 40K looking like Cossacks or Vietnam-era GIs. Just pretend it's a coincidence, or come up with a way that your particular army survived by being dragged into the Realm of Chaos or something.

Well, it's a touch more daft than that, given the history-invoking 40K IG regiments have 40K-era equipment and aesthetic twists, and exist as part of an unbroken timeline that proceeds from now RL to fictional then, as part of a society that has some limited historical documentation about its Terran past and which very likely included monocultural colonisation missions which generated their own artifacts. The issues with it in AoS are already in this thread.

[Thommy H]

Well, it's a touch more daft than that, given the history-invoking 40K IG regiments have 40K-era equipment and aesthetic twists, and exist as part of an unbroken timeline that proceeds from now RL to fictional then, as part of a society that has some limited historical documentation about its Terran past and which very likely included monocultural colonisation missions which generated their own artifacts. The issues with it in AoS are already in this thread.

I'm pretty sure we're not supposed to think that people from 38,000 years in the future are dressing like WW2 soldiers, or Rambo, or Michael Cain in Zulu because there's some direct link to those historical cultures that's been carried across a period of time six times the length of recorded human history.

[KieranHayns]

As far as i have been able to tell the only characters that have made any direct references to the Old World are:

Sigmar (It says hes still sulking about loseing it),

Archaon (The fact that he used to be a human follower of Sigmar is apparently a secret in this new setting that he gets very angry at people for mentioning)

Alarielle (She brought her seeds from the old world. But then again she may not actually remember where she got them)

Seraphon (Its not entirely clear what happened to them but they are the only race that completely avoided the old world blowing up so itmakes sense that they would know)

However all the rest of the characters seem to either avoid mentioning it or there history seems to have been blended somewhat with that of the realms. (Which it guess it would for most people adter so long)

As for the uniforms and such. It said that many people of the oldworld re appeared in the age of myth and more than likely carried on with past traditions and beliefs. However any mortal that came back in the age of myth (Lets say Felix for example) would be likely long dead however there traditions may have continued through the ages. That being said you would expect to see degrees of change in styles and such. So i think its more than lilely that new models will have a similar aesthetic (New warrior priest for silver tower) but with key changes and we just have to accept that the New-old models are just a comprimise to stop the Whfb collectors from topping themselves.

[ryng_sting]

It's implied that not even the Incarnates remember everything from their past lives. Sigmar and Archaon seem to recall the most.

[shinros]

Majority of the characters remember. Hell sigmar has a grand library on the events from the old world so its pretty common knowledge. Plus many of the necromancers, vampires etc are from the old world(handy having a god of the dead). It's like history now they do note that the chaos champions that survived or were bought back they note their memories are fuzzy on the events perhaps the chaos gods don't really *want* them to remember. Or they don't care, Archaon knows for sure he personally finds sigmar's light to be annoying. Skaven even have a grand book of their alliance with chaos during the old world.

Nagash clearly remembers considering a certain line in the audio drama and sigmar and nagash consider themselves to be old foe's.

[KieranHayns]

Majority of the characters remember. Hell sigmar has a grand library on the events from the old world so its pretty common knowledge. Plus many of the necromancers, vampires etc are from the old world(handy having a god of the dead). It's like history now they do note that the chaos champions that survived or were bought back they note their memories are fuzzy on the events perhaps the chaos gods don't really *want* them to remember. Or they don't care, Archaon knows for sure he personally finds sigmar's light to be annoying. Skaven even have a grand book of their alliance with chaos during the old world.

Nagash clearly remembers considering a certain line in the audio drama and sigmar and nagash consider themselves to be old foe's.

However knowing about it and actually remembering it arent the same thing. I dont think anyone from the old setting has explicitly said that they dont remember they just seem not to mention it. I think the first old characters to appear from the old world (Besides Sigmar) was actually the nurgle lords (Glotkin, Spume, Maggoth riders etc) and they made no references to it. But then again so much time has passed maybe it seems insignificant now.

[shinros]

However knowing about it and actually remembering it arent the same thing. I dont think anyone from the old setting has explicitly said that they dont remember they just seem not to mention it. I think the first old characters to appear from the old world (Besides Sigmar) was actually the nurgle lords (Glotkin, Spume, Maggoth riders etc) and they made no references to it. But then again so much time has passed maybe it seems insignificant now.

That's kinda the point the chaos worshipers largely don't care about the past sigmar only put the library together to make sure that past mistakes were not repeated again and made it open to all. This time sigmar wants to *win* against the dark gods(if that is even possible). Mannfred, neferata and Arkhan already have what they want(apart from mannfred) so I suspect that they don't care much either but they do note that they are incredibly old and are from the world that was. It was so long ago like thousands of years that to most people now its kinda insignificant.

It's like history it's interesting to read and learn about but largely we don't pay too much mind to it since it already happened and there is nothing we can do to change it. That's how they treat it and to make sure previous mistakes are not repeated.

[Kotrag]

That's kinda the point the chaos worshipers largely don't care about the past sigmar only put the library together to make sure that past mistakes were not repeated again and made it open to all. This time sigmar wants to *win* against the dark gods(if that is even possible). Mannfred, neferata and Arkhan already have what they want(apart from mannfred) so I suspect that they don't care much either but they do note that they are incredibly old and are from the world that was. It was so long ago like thousands of years that to most people now its kinda insignificant.

It's like history it's interesting to read and learn about but largely we don't pay too much mind to it since it already happened and there is nothing we can do to change it. That's how they treat it and to make sure previous mistakes are not repeated.

Wait... what mistakes? Chaos won in the Old World.

[shinros]

Wait... what mistakes? Chaos won in the Old World.

Sigmar did because chaos won and he does not want a repeat of that. So he allows his armies to educate themselves of the events that caused chaos to gain their victory.

[Kotrag]

Sigmar did because chaos won and he does not want a repeat of that. So he allows his armies to educate themselves of the events that caused chaos to gain their victory.

Oh, the library is run by Sigmar. Sorry, your post was a little unclear.

[KieranHayns]

I imagine that GW are intentionally keeping it vague to phase people into the AOS setting fully. I imagine in years to come the "World that was" will hardly even get a mention.

[inq.serge]

Kroak remembers. Kroak remembers it all.

[Kotrag]

Kroak remembers. Kroak remembers it all.

Kroak's an overrated toad and a quitter.

[inq.serge]

Kroak's an overrated toad and a quitter.

Take.

That.

Back!

Kroak is the prince that was promised. The hero we deserved, not the one we need right now! He's a Hero and a Real Human Being Slann
Kroak is love. Kroak is life!

[shinros]

Kroak remembers. Kroak remembers it all.

Yes actually the slaan have the most knowledge now enough to put them one step ahead of tzeentch hence why they can now send their armies where they are truly needed. Kroak is actually around I recall he dropped a meteor on top of some nurgle warriors.