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Sigismundjimbob
06-03-2017, 00:30
So with the Primarch Roboute Guiiliman returning to the Grimdark, what happens to Marneus Calgar in his role of chapter master? I'm assuming he would stand down automatically to papa smurf. Does he have to give back the gauntlets of ultramar or do we think Guilliman is going to set about to reorganising the Imperium?

Lord Damocles
06-03-2017, 17:36
Moved to 40K Background.



The Legions had Chapter Masters, so I don't see why Calgar would be required to step down. Guilliman has gone off to Terra anyway, so somebody will have to deal with the Chapter on Macragge.

I'm not sure that Guilliman ever actually used the Gauntlets of Ultramar, did he? He's [still] got the Hand of Dominion and Emperor's Sword, which are probably both better weapons, and better symbols of the Primarch's authority.

Lars Porsenna
07-03-2017, 19:28
I would assume that Marenus is still responsible for the operations of the Ultras, but if Roboute came knocking, they and all the UM successor chapters would rally behind his leadership.

Damon.

Iron_Lord
08-03-2017, 11:57
I'm not sure that Guilliman ever actually used the Gauntlets of Ultramar, did he? He's [still] got the Hand of Dominion and Emperor's Sword, which are probably both better weapons, and better symbols of the Primarch's authority.



The cover image of Unremembered Empire shows Guilliman with double power fists - raising the possibility that those are the Gauntlets and that the bolters are detached for the ceremony.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/mediawiki/images/1/19/The-Unremembered-Empire.jpg

In the context of classic Rogue Trader, Leman Russ was depicted as the same size as a normal Marine. I would guess that when "Lord Macragge" AKA Calgar, was originally invented:

http://www.solegends.com/citrt/WD98-Page-15-Imperial-Commander.jpg
http://i41.tinypic.com/98d8p5.jpg

the intent was that they be the Primarch's own weapons. Now Primarchs are much larger, it's more problematic.

The origin story:

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Gauntlets_of_Ultramar

The Gauntlets of Ultramar are two mighty Power Fists with incorporated Bolters that were reclaimed from a fallen Chaos champion, slain during the Gamalia Reclusiam Massacre by the Primarch of the Ultramarines, Roboute Guilliman himself.

does seem to suggest that they were acquired late - when "Chaos Champions" are a known problem. Heresy-era or post-Heresy, rather than pre-Heresy.

Lord Damocles
08-03-2017, 16:55
This guy (http://www.blacklibrary.com/horus-heresy/hh-fr/pharos-fre.html) also has a fist with built-in bolter.


Given that none of the descriptions of the Gauntlets have ever mentioned that they were used by Guilliman (Codex: Ultramarines, five editions of Codex: Space Marines), and they don't physically match those on the cover of Unremembered Empire (obviously being smaller, but also notably lacking the talon-like fingers), I'd think it rather unlikely that they were the Primarch's weapons.

Xisor
08-03-2017, 20:37
As per The Beast Arises - I don't see it as sensible (which, having read 1 & 2 of TGS, isn't a guarantee of it being done sensibly) for Guilliman to re-assume the direct command of the Ultramarines Chapter. Indeed, leading 1,000 men seems something of a waste.

It'd make more sense for him to re-take the title Lord Commander of the Imperium as a High Lord of Terra, or a similar position in a purely military capacity - e.g. Warmaster of a Crusade, or the position of Lord Solar or some such.

But, given TGS 1 & 2, I'd be entirely ready for him to be made Chapter Master and the Chapter size of the Ultramarines alone adjusted up to 100,000 Marines for the chapter... also Fabricator General of Mars and Avatar of Gorkamorka, just for the hell of it. Maybe even honorary Aun'el.

Sotek
09-03-2017, 17:28
Since Marneus is the Ultrasmurf number 1 the counter rolls around to 1000 and he becomes a scout again!

Xisor
13-03-2017, 19:43
A follow up question: if Cato's leading the Victrix formation with Guilliman, who's in charge of the 2nd Company?