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barrangas
31-03-2017, 16:19
Are there any ideas in the background for xenos Factions that could be used to expand HH to full on 30k and possibly return in 40k? I'd personally like to see some balance added to the non-imperium side of things and I think there is a lot that could be done by widening HH to include the Great Crusade. Most of the xenos armies aren't really in play at this time so Tau vs Luna Wolves would feel really off. Even having Eldar and Orks being exactly the same in 30k as 40k seems like a miss. I also think it would be fun for a threat run off in the GC to show up with a vengeance in 40k. The only human faced threat I know of that isn't around anymore is the Men of Iron, which is pre GC (not saying that I wouldn't mind seeing remnants or a return of our singularity AI overlords).

Some ideas I have that might work, aside from Men of Iron (yes you could do them to be very different from Necrons):
-for a theme , a xenos species that gets bigger/more powerful as it ages. Troops would be their young where HQ would be their elders.
-a precursor species favored by Chaos before they upgraded to SM.
-a faction of Eldar desperately trying to cling to their Golden Age rather than adapt.
-slightly smarter Orks possibly with humans infected with spores due to being enslaved so long on their worlds they become a half-ork subspecie.

These are just spitballing ideas, not necessarily serious.

theJ
01-04-2017, 21:17
Some ideas I have that might work, aside from Men of Iron (yes you could do them to be very different from Necrons):
I eagerly await your interpretation...

-for a theme , a xenos species that gets bigger/more powerful as it ages. Troops would be their young where HQ would be their elders.
So... basically the Orkz, then?

-a precursor species favored by Chaos before they upgraded to SM.
Before upgrading to humanity in general, you mean...? The marines are actually a surprisingly small part of the legions of the damned... but Chaos DOES seem to have a special place in their hearts for humanity... and no, that's not a good thing :p

-a faction of Eldar desperately trying to cling to their Golden Age rather than adapt.
... I thought there was already fluff on some of the Chrone Worlders surviving deep within the eye, under the... 'graces' of Slaneesh..? In addition to that, we just got the Ynnari, who are shaping up to be pretty much exactly what you're asking for.

-slightly smarter Orks possibly with humans infected with spores due to being enslaved so long on their worlds they become a half-ork subspecie.
Why? Their simplemindedness is a key part of their charm, if you remove that, you just end up with random madmen... and we've already got the legions of the damned for that. ... and also most of the Imperium.

..
*sigh*
Sorry if I come off as patronising, it's just that... well... these aren't really ideas for factions, so much as they are ideas for minor traits within factions.
Not saying they're necessarily BAD ideas for traits, just that traits are not a good place to start out from when designing new factions; as cynical as it no doubt sounds, it's far better to start out with base appeals or adaptations, and then see what traits would be required to support those.

barrangas
02-04-2017, 03:23
As I said, the ideas weren't anything serious just more thoughts to provide discussion. I suppose I should not have explained my reasons and just asked if there were mention of any xenos Factions that are mentioned in the HH as threats that weren't Eldar or Orks. Still I would like to see both 30 & 40k to make it less imperial.

While not serious though I do have responses that might explain my thinking if I don't get lost on a tangent.

For Necrons vs Men of Iron we can start with the basics. Necrons are living minds a metal body, mostly insane to the point of being completely checked, out that want to kill everyone MoI would be strong AI, probably back by vast AI intellects created to by machines like Jupiter computers, that enslaved humanity. Space undead vs new Cylons, if you will. Since they tried to enslave humanity the MoI seem more about imposing their order on others. Background wise there is a lot that could be done with that. You could even go for a somewhat tragic background to them, where they were actually trying to protect their creators and humanity didn't like it, if you wanted. Army wise, there is a lot you can do with it that would make them different from Necrons too. I think the big issue is people get bent out of shape for having two armies of mechanical men even though the rest are carbon based life. Also, how many variants of SM are there?

For an alien that increase in size and power continually as they age, I was under the impression that Grots and Nobs were subspecies of Orks from my reading. I could be wrong, but Orks don't become Nobs unless they are "born" that way; so I think it wouldn't be stepping on their toes if they started out small and weak for basic troops and got possibly to even MC sized as they aged. I was think about dragons as they aged but didn't want people thinking I was suggesting dragon men. Again it was a simple idea designed to create discussion and not anything serious.

For Chaos, I agree, they should do a Lost and the Damned Army :p. But you had 3 Chaos gods around since probably before humans and probably had Xenos worshippers they could corrupt that they liked using. #4 seems like a people daemon too. Why limit Chaos to humans and in the game mostly to SM? Think of it like beastmen or skaven from fantasy.

For Orks and Eldar, if SM get "new" stuff for HH, why can't they? The new Eldar stuff for 40k seems to just be about combining CWE and DE, two groups that had to adapt to the arrival of the big S. I just think it would be cool to get a look at pre-fall Eldar from those who desperately don't want to change, kind of like my country and climate change. As for Orks, I don't like them personally, so I wouldn't mind seeing something different in their overall theme in the past but I was just suggesting that they made extensive use of human slaves rather than killing most of them so the SM could liberate them. I don't think they should be ignored in 30k and I don't think they'll get much from the current 40k storyline when they should.

My hope was to find out about what humanity faced in times that weren't as well explored but carried away with day dreaming.