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barrangas
03-04-2017, 22:51
Since GW is bringing back Guilleman you now have someone who was very likely to know what happened to the missing two Primarchs. Since GW seems intent on running the end times, it implies wrapping up story ends by marching to an end. What happened to those two is kind of a big lingering plot thread. Do you think GW will change decades of keeping them as a throwback to the lost Roman legions and so players could claim their unique chapter as one of the original 20? If they were going to, now would seem like the time and I for one think they should, even if it is a throw away explanation that Guilleman says they were sent to slow the Nids so the Emperor could unite humanity and prepare for their eventual arrival. Now that the Nids are here Guilleman can speak of them without causing panic, que info dump.

My own speculation on if they were actually return to the universe as a playable faction would be that they wouldn't necessarily be imperial due to Guilleman's new marines. On the other hand, making them Chaos would really upset things on that side as they likely were Chaos before it was cool. No one wants hipster SM. IF that were to happen I would hope that they would be on a third side different from both, even though I'm generally against more marines.

On a similar note, the Cursed founding eludes that an attempt was made to make new Primarchs and that one might have actually survived and was whisked away by someone. Do you think this possible Primarchs might show up? I think it would be a better way to shake up Chaos with something new than one or both lost legions. What are your thoughts?

The Black Shield
04-04-2017, 03:22
Have you read any of the Horus Heresy? http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Two_unknown_legions

barrangas
04-04-2017, 04:40
No I haven't. Honestly I'm not big on SM, but if the map says "here be dragons" then I want to see the freaking dragons. The two lost ones are a big mystery that I'd like to see what GW does with it. I don't actually expect them to be added to the game either, but then I never expected the Custodes to show up.

nagash66
04-04-2017, 08:44
There are no end times in sight, only a little background progression in time for 8th new style/potential new factions/sides.

barrangas
04-04-2017, 16:38
I'm not saying they'll end the game, but with Primarchs returning and Eldar gods waking up GW is advancing it into a time where secrets get revealed and plot lines get wrapped up.

Lord Damocles
04-04-2017, 17:30
I see no reason to believe that GW will go about systematically tidying up loose plot threads (especially not threads specifically designed/intended not to be tied up) just because it's the End Times™.

It's not like they've actually wrapped up any other significant plot lines so far...

Lars Porsenna
04-04-2017, 18:17
No I don't think that the lost 2 Legions are going to come back, not do I buy the theory they were sent to stall the Tyrranids while the Emperior tidies things up. Based on my readings in the HH books, I think it is strongly implied the reason they are missing is because they either betrayed the Emperor, or when he came knocking they waged war against him or something. In one of the books (dealing with Lorgar, can't remember the title off the top of my head), it is strongly implied that the Ultramarines absorbed the marines from these legions. That reinforces my belief that these two Primarchs were not on-board for the Emperor's vision in some way...

Damon.

barrangas
04-04-2017, 19:59
No I don't think that the lost 2 Legions are going to come back, not do I buy the theory they were sent to stall the Tyrranids while the Emperior tidies things up. Based on my readings in the HH books, I think it is strongly implied the reason they are missing is because they either betrayed the Emperor, or when he came knocking they waged war against him or something. In one of the books (dealing with Lorgar, can't remember the title off the top of my head), it is strongly implied that the Ultramarines absorbed the marines from these legions. That reinforces my belief that these two Primarchs were not on-board for the Emperor's vision in some way...

Damon.

The Nids comment was an example of how they could sum it up in a sentence or two.

Cèsar de Quart
04-04-2017, 21:41
GW doesn't know what happened with the two lost Primarchs. Maybe someone had it in mind at some point, but it's classic worldbuilding broken references: make something look lived-in and aged by breaking it a little.

The two lost Primarchs are just blank spaces in an Excel table, because having 18 boxes filled and two erased makes you interested, more than if we knew the names of all the 20 primarchs.. Something's always more interesting if there's more to it than you're given.

So, GW has, imo, no idea about the lost Primarchs. Anything they can cook up, they'll cook it up now, the lowest point in their long creative history. To me, it seems it's best if they're left a secret.

Fangschrecken
23-04-2017, 05:36
Right you are. After literal decades of speculation there's nothing they can come up with that will make the fan base happy or live up to our expectations.

avien
23-04-2017, 23:12
No I haven't. Honestly I'm not big on SM, but if the map says "here be dragons" then I want to see the freaking dragons. The two lost ones are a big mystery that I'd like to see what GW does with it. I don't actually expect them to be added to the game either, but then I never expected the Custodes to show up.

It's heavily hinted in the heresy series that the two primarchs had the wolves sicked on them. They've left the "why" vague, but they explained what happened to the legions themselves.

The marines that were left were mostly absorbed into the Ultramarines and that's why there are so many of them.

Fangschrecken
29-04-2017, 20:48
The marines that were left were mostly absorbed into the Ultramarines and that's why there are so many of them.

That's given as an in universe theory and some characters openly scoff at the idea.

Most legions were either drew recruits from worlds as they went or relied almost exclusively on their primarch's home world. In contrast the Ultramarines had a very stable geneseed and ruled over an entire sector of 500 worlds and recruited the best from all of them. It really does makes sense that they were the largest legion.

Fangschrecken
01-07-2017, 18:39
To resurrect a semi-dead thread, after reading the Forgeworld Heresy books it's heavily hinted (basically spelled out) that at least one of the Legions was destroyed in the Rangdan Xenocide. Said to be a truly apocalyptic war, which is probably the most we will ever get out of it.

Also, after reading the Cawl/Primaris stuff I really wish they'd incorporated the Cursed Founding into the development of the Primaris Marines. It would have been a nice way of demonstrating the 10K years of trials and failures to make superior marines.

Razios
02-07-2017, 06:35
To resurrect a semi-dead thread, after reading the Forgeworld Heresy books it's heavily hinted (basically spelled out) that at least one of the Legions was destroyed in the Rangdan Xenocide. Said to be a truly apocalyptic war, which is probably the most we will ever get out of it.

Also, after reading the Cawl/Primaris stuff I really wish they'd incorporated the Cursed Founding into the development of the Primaris Marines. It would have been a nice way of demonstrating the 10K years of trials and failures to make superior marines.

Yeah, I went I read about the primaris marines my though was "maybe the curse founding is cawl trying to test things out?" it would make new fluff integrate with the old fluff better.

Cèsar de Quart
02-07-2017, 12:55
To resurrect a semi-dead thread, after reading the Forgeworld Heresy books it's heavily hinted (basically spelled out) that at least one of the Legions was destroyed in the Rangdan Xenocide. Said to be a truly apocalyptic war, which is probably the most we will ever get out of it.

Also, after reading the Cawl/Primaris stuff I really wish they'd incorporated the Cursed Founding into the development of the Primaris Marines. It would have been a nice way of demonstrating the 10K years of trials and failures to make superior marines.


Yeah, I went I read about the primaris marines my though was "maybe the curse founding is cawl trying to test things out?" it would make new fluff integrate with the old fluff better.

Another indication that GW corporate fluff-makers have little idea or interest in their own lore.

I also thought about the Cursed Founding along the way, but so far, all things Guilliman and all things Primaris are completely new developments, unlinked to anything we knew before. Cawl turns out is 10.000 years old, Guilliman seems to have been planning with him some sort of resurrection and new Marines, and this was all a secret for ten millennia. Kind of stupid, honestly.

It was hinted that Cawl had been manipulated by an Eldar seer, but I don't think we'll ever see this point resolved.

Fangschrecken
08-07-2017, 17:32
To a certain degree I'll forgive writers for not knowing every detail of the 40K universe. It's been around for a long time and not every event that we consider major registers with someone else. Like I want to know more about the Nova Terra Interregnum, but whoever's in charge at black library may have decided against it.

Actually they cold still weave in the Cursed founding. Something like a student of Cawl's left the forge and tried to make better marines on his own. Perhaps using traitor geneseed that Cawl didn't want to use. Now, four/five milenia later the student is toying with something dangerous and it sets off a race for his secrets between the Mechanicus and a large chaos force led by Fabius Bile

Rhaivaen
11-07-2017, 01:10
That's given as an in universe theory and some characters openly scoff at the idea.

Most legions were either drew recruits from worlds as they went or relied almost exclusively on their primarch's home world. In contrast the Ultramarines had a very stable geneseed and ruled over an entire sector of 500 worlds and recruited the best from all of them. It really does makes sense that they were the largest legion.

Being part in-game/ in-universe reasons why, is a major point of my XIth legion/ Desert Lions Legion/ Chapter...
Part ran away, part was integrated, they end up disliking the Ultra-Smurfs, as do I, so yea, I like the fluff being vague, letting me do my thing.
kinda makes me wish to write more up in regards to the XIth legion, but I am so far at a loss as to what to do with their Primarch,
so I left that out, tbh.

I am unsure how to go with Legion XI and the Primaris Mary-Sue's.. :)
(Although I do have to admit, I like the Reivers, but dislike the monopose of them..)

Razios
12-07-2017, 19:57
To a certain degree I'll forgive writers for not knowing every detail of the 40K universe. It's been around for a long time and not every event that we consider major registers with someone else. Like I want to know more about the Nova Terra Interregnum, but whoever's in charge at black library may have decided against it.

Actually they cold still weave in the Cursed founding. Something like a student of Cawl's left the forge and tried to make better marines on his own. Perhaps using traitor geneseed that Cawl didn't want to use. Now, four/five milenia later the student is toying with something dangerous and it sets off a race for his secrets between the Mechanicus and a large chaos force led by Fabius Bile

mostly because that is just throway fluff that it dosent matter from most part.

on the other hand they expand the Beast war from simple piece of fluff into a full series with some strong change in background, so who know what GW will do now.

Cèsar de Quart
12-10-2017, 23:18
Thank God for our own head canon.

Is Sanguinius coming back, btw?

Sambojin
24-10-2017, 03:22
Again, totally up to the writers. Probably? Maybe?
The whole primaris saga is interesting in that it's guilliman now completely ignoring his own "perfect" codex. Was that the point? Keep the rest of the legions split up and divided while he was still researching the uber-mensch tech and working out a way of mass producing it? Even while making sure they're not nearly as powerful as he? Whilst ensuring he had "a donk load more marines" available at any given time, for thousands of years, half a legion of Knights, and the best tech bar none than the Titan legions at his disposal?
All in all, gulliman's actions are heretical, even to himself. But when Rome is in chaos, do as the chaotic legionnaires are doing.....

Sambojin
24-10-2017, 03:33
Basically, it's very difficult to tell if guilliman is actually acting for the good, or may be about to overthrow much of the Imperium. Perhaps for good reasons, perhaps for bad, but he'll have to win both against chaos AND against the major powers of the Empire, otherwise there might just be a third chapter removed from records, forgotten and unspoken of in 10,000 years time.
Or a second traitor heresy written into Imperial lore.
I, myself, can't wait to kick the smurfs in the nuts. For the Emperor!

Sambojin
24-10-2017, 04:00
There is nothing in particular to say that the lost Primarchs, or their legions, we're particularly heretical or chaotic in their own way. Just that the space wolves were ordered to remove at least one of them.
Man's ambitions is more of a worry to the Imperial crede than all of chaos sometimes. For if you can't blame it on anything other than your race's own innate desire for power or control, especially in the face of the status quo, and despite it, then it's especially hard to feel like you're the "good guys". Considering you destroy aliens for their mere thought of it, and that the human in that particular position committing these "heresies" may have a good point.

Has guilliman crossed that line, from saviour to heretic? Indeed, is he even who we think he is? In a time of chaos, daemons masquerade as many things.

I personally think he has crossed that line, in the long run, no matter the reasons of doing so. It is not so much a question of whether the lost primarchs will come back, but if we are seeing a third one be created.

That'd move the story along a bit, certainly :D

Sambojin
24-10-2017, 04:28
Sort of paraphrased, but it used to be a "thing":
"When Ultramar falls away, or falls away from the Codex, then the Doom of Man is upon them. And a second War begins. "

Or something to that nature. Someone could probably quote the Prophecy of Ultramar way better than me.

Anyway. That ***** happened (it is happening now). So, yep.....

totgeboren
27-10-2017, 11:59
To resurrect a semi-dead thread, after reading the Forgeworld Heresy books it's heavily hinted (basically spelled out) that at least one of the Legions was destroyed in the Rangdan Xenocide. Said to be a truly apocalyptic war, which is probably the most we will ever get out of it.


Both Lorgar and Sanguinius have expressed fear about ending up like one of the Lost Legions, and the SW seem to take some pride in having already destroyed one loyalist legion well before the Heresy.

So there we have it. One destroyed in a huge conflict, one was purged for somehow displeasing the Emperor.

Some surviving members may or may not have been folded into the UM, though the author who came up with that has outright stated that it was just meant as a false in-world rumor.

Inquisitor Engel
04-11-2017, 16:49
Both Lorgar and Sanguinius have expressed fear about ending up like one of the Lost Legions, and the SW seem to take some pride in having already destroyed one loyalist legion well before the Heresy.

So there we have it. One destroyed in a huge conflict, one was purged for somehow displeasing the Emperor.

Some surviving members may or may not have been folded into the UM, though the author who came up with that has outright stated that it was just meant as a false in-world rumor.

The Leman Russ Primarch novella makes it pretty clear that Russ' "I've killed Primarchs" thing is all bluster, and the Space Wolves are just putting on a show.

Fangschrecken
09-11-2017, 03:19
The Leman Russ Primarch novella makes it pretty clear that Russ' "I've killed Primarchs" thing is all bluster, and the Space Wolves are just putting on a show.

Oh praise the emperor! I couldn't stand all the self righteous, we're the best stuff, we don't use the warp, we've killed primarchs and blah blah blah. They're just a legion like any other. They've had marines go over to the traitors. /end rant

Razios
09-11-2017, 21:10
Oh praise the emperor! I couldn't stand all the self righteous, we're the best stuff, we don't use the warp, we've killed primarchs and blah blah blah. They're just a legion like any other. They've had marines go over to the traitors. /end rant

to be fair, ABD have said that TONS of times because he was getting REALLY annoying with Space wolf fan braging about their primarch being primarch killer.

On the other hand, foreworld Russ show that while that is a lot of boasting, he was prepare to take other primarch.

Fangschrecken
11-11-2017, 16:17
On the other hand, foreworld Russ show that while that is a lot of boasting, he was prepare to take other primarch.

And that's fine; Russ can get ready all he wants but the only confirmed primarch killers are Fulgrim, Dorn, and Horus. We don't know what happened to the other two besides some strong hints from FW about an entire [redacted] destroyed during the Rangdan Xenocide.

Rhaivaen
16-11-2017, 19:57
Both Lorgar and Sanguinius have expressed fear about ending up like one of the Lost Legions, and the SW seem to take some pride in having already destroyed one loyalist legion well before the Heresy.

So there we have it. One destroyed in a huge conflict, one was purged for somehow displeasing the Emperor.
Yup, Legion 11, is mine.


Some surviving members may or may not have been folded into the UM, though the author who came up with that has outright stated that it was just meant as a false in-world rumor.
Well feck that writer then :) I'm using it and sticking with it. it totally fits the narrative for my legion.