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View Full Version : What are your thoughts on the Primaris Reivers



barrangas
10-07-2017, 23:05
So I got the basics of what the Reivers will be doing from BoLS which is:

Assault anywhere with 3A 2W a Str 4 AP -1 pistol and cause units they charge a -1 on Ld tests.

What are people's thoughts on them?

Sureshot05
11-07-2017, 09:27
For me, modelwise these are the worst of the new primaris batch.
Ruleswise, they offer an interesting area effect to magnify the effects of morale checks (I believe they offer -1 leadership on charge and -1 leadership to all units within 6") so good for focusing on one area of your opponents battleline or for damaging hordes in support of firepower. They look like they would work well with an assault squad, but less so on their own.

shabbadoo
11-07-2017, 10:47
Baby Chaplains. They look like baby Chaplains.

Voltaire
11-07-2017, 11:00
Model wise, I quite like the miniatures and their death masks. The only thing I am uncertain of is whether skipping leg day was a wise choice for the.

Fluff wise, I am hoping we get anj explanation for why Cawl has Banshee masks. It seems the more of the Primaris we see, the more the influence of the Eldar is becoming apparent and that stinks of heresy.

Rules wise, the Primaris knife offering 1 extra attack takes away from Chainswords which is not something I particularly enjoy.

barrangas
11-07-2017, 12:27
Fluff wise, I am hoping we get anj explanation for why Cawl has Banshee masks. It seems the more of the Primaris we see, the more the influence of the Eldar is becoming apparent and that stinks of heresy

That's something I thought about the Reivers too. They also apparently get a grenade that might be similar to photon or hallecegen grenades. In general Primaris have been striking me as borrowing mechanics from other armies. Bolster Rifles remind me of the Tau pulse rifles, though I think -1AP is better than 5S. Their 2 actions base is similar to the CSM getting bolters and pistol cow. I'm wondering if their plasma units won't have to worry about "Gets Hot".

murgel2006
11-07-2017, 19:20
I think it is an ok model. Looks bit like a motorcycle drivers "armour" but OK.
rules look interesting.
BUT why the h*** do marines get a better-working/more-powerful version of the banshee mask?

barrangas
11-07-2017, 19:27
I think it is an ok model. Looks bit like a motorcycle drivers "armour" but OK.
rules look interesting.
BUT why the h*** do marines get a better-working/more-powerful version of the banshee mask?

The same place they got the K Sons extra wound.

DYoung
12-07-2017, 03:08
That's something I thought about the Reivers too. They also apparently get a grenade that might be similar to photon or hallecegen grenades. In general Primaris have been striking me as borrowing mechanics from other armies. Bolster Rifles remind me of the Tau pulse rifles, though I think -1AP is better than 5S. Their 2 actions base is similar to the CSM getting bolters and pistol cow. I'm wondering if their plasma units won't have to worry about "Gets Hot".

Going by white dwarf, it seems they don't suffer from gets hot unless they overcharge their gun or something.

barrangas
12-07-2017, 03:14
So they have Ion weapons now

Rogue Star
12-07-2017, 03:19
So they have Ion weapons now

Well, all Plasma weaponry has that rule, in 8th edition.

Late
12-07-2017, 09:15
Primaris Ravers - time traveling electronic music enthusiasts from the 1990s, pacifier +5pts.

shabbadoo
12-07-2017, 12:35
Okay. How I really feel about Primaris Reivers.

Exactly what the hell is going to be afraid of a Primaris Reiver? An Imperial Guardsman, a ****-pants Chaos Cultist, the lowliest of Genestealer Cultists, or the occasional Eldar Guardian?

Necrons? I guess so, as Reivers apparently carry "quickrust" grenades.
Tyranids? Yep. You guessed it. Reivers are armed with RAID grenades too.
Other Space Marines? Hey, they know their own, and dudes with grenades melded into their chests..and yet who are still alive...are pretty damn scary!
Chaos Space Marines what consorts with DAEMONS? Well, duh. Even Abbadon is ascared of, and runs away from, Spess Mehreens, so how would even bigger ones not be scary? Hey, what about the other BIG Spess Mehreens what have even tougher looking armor and nastier weapons? Well, no. They are not shifty at all, and so not scary at all, you see!
Daemons? Are you kidding? Of course they are totally scared of Reivers! Wouldn't you be? I mean, Reivers wear skull masks, and junk! Very scary!!!

Terror Troops...for the "Good Guys"...really? The mechanic is okay, but it stinks on this unit. This sort of mechanic would work better for other units, such as "Bane of Daemons: All units with the <DAEMON> keyword that are within 3" of a unit with the <GREY KNIGHTS> keyword are -1 to their Leadership score.", or "Warp Horror: All units that do not have the <CHAOS> keyword and that are within 3" of a unit with the <DAEMON> keyword are -1 to their Leadership score.", or "Shadow in the Warp: All units with the <PSYKER> keyword that do not have the <TYRANID> or <GENESTEALER CULT> keyword and that are within 24" of a unit with the <ANTI-PSYKER> keyword are -1 on Psychic Tests." You know, stuff that makes a lot more sense. As written, Reivers are better suited to having a different allegiance altogether...
230879
But what do you now do for other units which should be scary as hell when Reivers have already set the baseline for such an ability? Will Night Lords impose a -2? Will greater daemons impose a -3? Or will nothing else be scary at all, even though it has every right to be freaking utterly more scary than...a Primaris Reiver? They are just not the right unit for such an ability. A better ability for them to have would be to hinder the ability of an enemy unit to fall back from them (i.e. "No Escape: An enemy unit wishing to Fall Back from a unit of Reivers must roll a d6 and add their Movement value. If the total is 10 or more the unit can Fall Back from the Reivers. A d6 roll of 1 always fails. This ability does not apply to enemy units with the <FLY> or <TITANIC> keywords."), allowing Reivers to do some real *reaving* most of the time.

Just not a fan of the overall Reiver concept. Everything else I am fairly okay with, except for the gun shields on the jump troops' guns, which look clunky, awkward, and would not be aerodynamic at all. Hold a trash can lid by the handle outside of your car window while driving 40 mph and you'll get the idea. ;)

theJ
12-07-2017, 14:38
Short version?
Disappointed.

Long version?
...
Well, the funny thing is that the Ravers should be EXACTLY what the primaris needed; see, currently, the list suffers from the entire army being at its most effective when deployed as a single, tiny, ball of death.
...
And while a 'ball of death' style deployment can be made to be enjoyable, that's only going to happen when you also have a few other units outside of the ball to support it.
Such as, oh I dunno... a unit of light(ish) skirmishers who stalk the fringes on the battlefield, assassinating enemy support squads? Kinda like what the Ravers are supposed to be?
...
Now, employing my nigh-unlimited intellect, I summize that the rules for such a unit would require three aspects to be present.
*First, they need enough raw combat prowess to take their intended targets down.
I'd say they've got that one pretty much down pat. Or... at least they do if we assume they will eventually be used as 5-man teams. The current 3-man ones... I dunno. Might work, depending on opponent?
*Second, and this is the one I tend to hear the most people mention, they need deployment and/or movement rules that allow them to properly outflank the enemy.
GW... did not give them this.
*Thirdly, they need an active reason to NOT hang around the main ball.
GW again, did not give them this. It would've been quite simple for them to either make the captains' buff not apply to them, or to simply make their swanky combat blades give them innate rerolls to hit, thus making the captains' buff pointless.

Instead, they insisted on an apparantly very important rule to represent how scary these guys are, which, eh... mayhap it'll make more sense when we get their fluff?
They are also given some really swanky new grenades, which by their nature become ever more powerful the stronger the enemy unit is, thus pushing the unit itself into a frontal assault-style role.

...
So yeah, ruleswise? They're a pretty big fail. What should've diversified the list, is instead more likely to just be a more melee-centric alternative to Intercessors, gathering in a huge blob, accompanied by a captain, and charging straight down the centre of the table.

*ahem*
As for visuals, I'm not really a fan of that either. From the ground up; the new more angular greaves paradoxically make them look even more heavily armoured than the "full", sleeker patterns. I do like the focus on giving them extra kit, but the chest-'nades go a bit far. The skull-masks are the main turnoff- as while skulls helms are pretty common(or even standard) in this setting, these ones just ain't as well justified as the others, which makes 'em stand out like a sore thumb, especially when GW keeps bringing up how "terrifying" they're supposed to be. Gives the impression FEAR is supposed to be the justification, and, well... while it might've been kinda spooky in the MLP-verse, it really doesn't work out in 40k.

*sigh*
Another day, another poor execution.
At this rate, I'm kinda tempted to just write off the entire Primaris 'thing', as besides the basic power armour d00dz, they really ain't got a whole lotta truly impressive stuff...

Rogue Star
12-07-2017, 15:07
I think it's curious that in the squad artwork for the Reivers, we've got both a) a bolter, which isn't an available option, and b) the squad leader clearly has the grav-cute wings sticking off his backpack exhaust-spheres. I assume the easy-build Reivers are to Space Marines what Retributors where to Stormcast Eternals in their starter set - less than half the options you'll get in the full box. Sadly I was hoping GW learned from the Retributors...

https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/catalog/product/600x620/99120101183_ETBReiverSquad06.jpg

barrangas
12-07-2017, 19:02
Primaris Ravers - time traveling electronic music enthusiasts from the 1990s, pacifier +5pts.

I want to field an entire army of these! Pistol + light stick ftw.

barrangas
12-07-2017, 19:13
The rules we've seen for the Reivers are from the First Strike box which most likely doesn't have their full rules. I have read a few places that they will get grav shutes and grapnel for Deep Strike and Infiltrate.

One thing that surprises me about their terror troop role is that they have regular blades rather than chain swords. You think that you'd want to arm them with that as it would be more of a terrifying weapon. I suspect combat blades were originally going to be power weapons and came pretty damn close to happening before someone remembered howling banshees.

Rogue Star
12-07-2017, 20:49
One thing that surprises me about their terror troop role is that they have regular blades rather than chain swords. You think that you'd want to arm them with that as it would be more of a terrifying weapon. I suspect combat blades were originally going to be power weapons and came pretty damn close to happening before someone remembered howling banshees.

The combat blades have effectively the same stats as chainswords. It's interesting that the transfers in the box mark them as the twelfth unit, which hints that Primaris units will be in batches of five, requiring twenty squads to a company...

barrangas
12-07-2017, 21:21
The combat blades have effectively the same stats as chainswords. It's interesting that the transfers in the box mark them as the twelfth unit, which hints that Primaris units will be in batches of five, requiring twenty squads to a company...

Yes, they do. However which one would be scarier to face in combat. What have most armies always used as their base combat weapon too. If Reivers were supposed to be all about being sneaky and quiet then the combat blade would be the obvious choice and probably wouldn't have screaming masks. Since they're supposed to get in close and then scare you with a lot of noise the chain sword would be better. Since they don't have them on the models, it makes me think someone originally intended power blades but the rules got changed after the models were done.

Buddy Bear
13-07-2017, 02:33
Yes, they do. However which one would be scarier to face in combat. What have most armies always used as their base combat weapon too. If Reivers were supposed to be all about being sneaky and quiet then the combat blade would be the obvious choice and probably wouldn't have screaming masks. Since they're supposed to get in close and then scare you with a lot of noise the chain sword would be better. Since they don't have them on the models, it makes me think someone originally intended power blades but the rules got changed after the models were done.

Yep, they apparently were intended as power weapons. Maybe there was a miscommunication and the mini designers just made them regular combat knives instead of giving them power weapon details?

“The Reiver squad was armed with oversized combat knives glimmering with disruption fields, and heavy bolt pistols. Their helms were death’s heads, and their left pauldrons enlarged to provide better protection in melee. Their armour was eerily silent, adapted for stealth work. Reivers were an infiltration and close-combat specialisation.”


Excerpt From: Haley, Guy. “Dark Imperium.” iBooks.
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