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Cèsar de Quart
12-10-2017, 22:05
Hi all.

Spoilers, I guess, for Heresy books regarding Magnus the Red. I haven't read them, I don't know if what I've got comes from those, but I guess it does.

I've read recently that Magnus resisted becoming a daemon prince because he wanted to hold on to his power and who he was. Which made me think "good concept, ultimate power at the cost of everything else. Neat"

But wait... aren't Daemon Princes connected to their own personalities, memories and abilities? Haven't we seen DP's with very acute personalities? What does it all mean? Is Magnus the same, psycologically? Is he "possessed" by the will of Tzeentch? Is he bound to obey It?

I'm not asking for a canon answer, of course. GW will change whatever they need when they need it, but I'm curious to see what people who know more about 40k lore think.

Thanks!

theJ
14-10-2017, 19:48
You think the dark pantheon would grant power without a price...?

All non-undivided daemons are fundamentally tied to their patron god, and thus to become a daemon is to tie oneself to a chaos god, keeping some semblance of ones prior personality and drive, but ultimately surrendering drive and agency to the whim of the dark gods.
Immortality is yours, but you are not, if that makes any sense.

Tastyfish
22-10-2017, 15:29
Hi all.

Spoilers, I guess, for Heresy books regarding Magnus the Red. I haven't read them, I don't know if what I've got comes from those, but I guess it does.

I've read recently that Magnus resisted becoming a daemon prince because he wanted to hold on to his power and who he was. Which made me think "good concept, ultimate power at the cost of everything else. Neat"

But wait... aren't Daemon Princes connected to their own personalities, memories and abilities? Haven't we seen DP's with very acute personalities? What does it all mean? Is Magnus the same, psycologically? Is he "possessed" by the will of Tzeentch? Is he bound to obey It?

I'm not asking for a canon answer, of course. GW will change whatever they need when they need it, but I'm curious to see what people who know more about 40k lore think.

Thanks!

He's become close enough to Tzeentch that it isn't easy to distinguish between them, the power of Tzeentch flows through Magnus and Magnus is part of Tzeentch. But that doesn't mean that the daemon prince has no will of their own - he's just a head of the hydra that is his patron. Whilst Tzeentch is happy to lend his power through Magnus then Magnus has that power, but if free-er to use it than something that Tzeentch has spun out of himself like a Greater Daemon.

Daemons are lesser copies of the greater whole, representing a narrower aspect and without access to the full powers - but they are made specifically by the Chaos God and generally for a purpose (this purpose then also being their core being in the realm of ideas of the warp). Rather than pushing out and losing elements of the whole, a Daemon Prince is a mortal who has literally aligned themselves with a chaos god enough than the two have merged - nothing is lost (though the God could be considered to be 'diluted' slightly, hence why they reserve this only for exceptional and/or ideologically 'pure' beings) but the God now has an extension to themselves that is able to react far more easily on a mortal level. It's seemingly hard for a cosmic entity that exists on a different plane of reality to humans to properly think at their level - they can get close, but far easier to pick a proxy and elevate them than risk diluting your essential being by bringing yourself down to that level, or to have a part of you rebel when you give them too much freedom and they develop a stronger identity separate from you.

Cèsar de Quart
22-10-2017, 21:23
Thank you all for your insight! Really appreciated.

On top of that, now I'm on better grounds to begin my Chaos army centered around a daemon prince.