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View Full Version : Need a list of post-army book Bretonnian battle reports in WD



The Emperor
16-06-2005, 01:09
As it says in the title, this is what I'm looking for.

A list of White Dwarf issues (American numbering, please) which contain battle reports with the Bretonnian army after they got their 6th edition army book. I'm restarting my Bretonnian collection and as a result, I'd like to see how the Bretonnians have performed in those battle reports (Hopefully there's more then just the one when the new army book came out). Being a 5th edition Bretonnian veteran, I'm naturally ignorant as to what effects the Grail Reliquae/Battle Pilgrims, Pegasus Knights, Trebuchet, Questing Knights with two-handed weapons, and other changes have on the Bretonnians game play. Any help with putting this list together would be greatly appreciated, folks. Thanks a lot.

Sir Charles
16-06-2005, 05:43
As it says in the title, this is what I'm looking for.

A list of White Dwarf issues (American numbering, please) which contain battle reports with the Bretonnian army after they got their 6th edition army book. I'm restarting my Bretonnian collection and as a result, I'd like to see how the Bretonnians have performed in those battle reports (Hopefully there's more then just the one when the new army book came out). Being a 5th edition Bretonnian veteran, I'm naturally ignorant as to what effects the Grail Reliquae/Battle Pilgrims, Pegasus Knights, Trebuchet, Questing Knights with two-handed weapons, and other changes have on the Bretonnians game play. Any help with putting this list together would be greatly appreciated, folks. Thanks a lot.
Unfortunantly I think that might have been the only one with them since their book came out, though on the bright side they did fight that one twice so you get two for the price of one.

The Emperor
16-06-2005, 07:10
Well that sucks. Just one battle report?!? :wtf:

Oh well. So do you know which issue of White Dwarf that was?

Griefbringer
16-06-2005, 08:30
Being a 5th edition Bretonnian veteran, I'm naturally ignorant as to what effects the Grail Reliquae/Battle Pilgrims, Pegasus Knights, Trebuchet, Questing Knights with two-handed weapons, and other changes have on the Bretonnians game play. Any help with putting this list together would be greatly appreciated, folks. Thanks a lot.

Unfortunately, WD battle reports tend to be of limited help when it comes to learning new tactics. You would probably be better served by going to the tactics section of these forums and posting a question there.

macbeth
16-06-2005, 09:59
In France, it was the White Dwarf of January 2004. I don't know to which American number it corresponds...

mielherne
16-06-2005, 11:34
UK WD 292, april 2004

Uk WD 305, may 2005 (only characters, so not muts of use to you)

Wez
16-06-2005, 11:59
If you're looking for tactics you'll have more luck with the painting guides than those Battle Reports. :rolleyes:

They're pretty shocking. The armies tend to be: "I chose unit X because I think it is pretty" or "I chose unit Y because the models have just been released". You can normally tell who'll win by the armies alone.

I don't have the WD near me, so I can't check, but from memory he not only miscalculated his points, but also took 5 special units. I also seem to remember a stupid "all eggs in one basket" unit, while the TK player took very little magic for the game size. All in all, pretty dire imo.

There's the odd good battle report (either because they have competant players that aren't pandering to the newest models, or because it's an amusing one, such as the goblin horde vs. the tiny elf army).

-Wez

The Emperor
18-06-2005, 04:50
If you're looking for tactics you'll have more luck with the painting guides than those Battle Reports. :rolleyes:

They're pretty shocking. The armies tend to be: "I chose unit X because I think it is pretty" or "I chose unit Y because the models have just been released". You can normally tell who'll win by the armies alone.

I don't have the WD near me, so I can't check, but from memory he not only miscalculated his points, but also took 5 special units. I also seem to remember a stupid "all eggs in one basket" unit, while the TK player took very little magic for the game size. All in all, pretty dire imo.

There's the odd good battle report (either because they have competant players that aren't pandering to the newest models, or because it's an amusing one, such as the goblin horde vs. the tiny elf army).

-Wez

You think that's bad? You should've seen the first Bretonnian battle report after their army book came out in 5th edition. Ok, say you're the writer of the army book, and you want to show what the army can do, right? You'd think that he'd use the opportunity to demonstrate the all-new Bretonnian rule, the Lance Formation, right? Wrong. Instead what does he do? He gets 20+ Knights of the Realms, throws in the General and the Battle Standard Bearer, and he makes one massive regiment over 10 figures wide and two ranks deep. I couldn't believe it. The thing was ridiculously wide. Not to mention BEYOND stupid! Why make one big unit with a +1 Rank Bonus and two banners when you can make TWO units with a +3 Rank Bonus apiece and three banners between the two of them, each of which is capable of getting more knights into combat then that one unit of his was individually capable of doing?

And to top it off, he put it behind a bunch of Commoner regiments, which made it impossible for this big monstrous regiment with it's whopping +1 rank bonus to get at the enemy. It wasn't until the final turn of the game that they FINALLY managed to charge an enemy unit (8 Silver Helms), charging them in the flank, and even THEN they weren't able to kill anyone, though thankfully they did break them, so it wasn't a total sham. Disgusted me, though, to think how many more knights could've attacked if it had been a unit of 12 Knights in the Lance Formation, rather then 23 formed up in two really wide ranks. They might've actually killed someone if that had been the case.

So WHY put them like this? Aside from some crazy notion about charging multiple units (Which once again begs the question, "WHY PUT THEM BEHIND THOSE COMMONER REGIMENTS?!?"), it was for fear of the Repeater Bolt Thrower. Talk about the cure being worse then the disease! Isn't the Lady's Blessing supposed to guard against that? How about making use of one of the armies advantages, rather then ignoring it and depriving yourself of ANOTHER of the armies advantages?

Oh, and incidentally? He went over about 300 points in a 2,000 point army. I don't know what's more embarassing. The way that Bretonnian army was handled, or the fact that, even with 300 points more then the enemy, the best he could get out of that battle was a draw.

That having been said, while I HAVE read many, MANY battle reports which have been asinine, some of them have been good. Though truth be told, the last time I regularly read good battle reports was prior to the final days of 40k 2nd edition. But then again, I stopped collecting White Dwarf regularly after that, so I hoped that maybe they solved that problem. Hmm. If what you say is true, then it seems that White Dwarf's habit of putting out mediocre battle reports is continuing. Why not give us entertaining battles with both players doing their damndest to beat the other, rather then using battle reports to showcase a new rule or unit? I read battle reports for the same reason I watch football games: To be entertained by seeing two opposing players/teams going at it, doing everything they can to scratch out a win. If I wanted an advertisement, I'd just flip to the beginning of the issue where they're highlighting this new model.

Just look at the battle reports when 40k 2nd edition and 4th edition came out. The 2nd edition one featured Andy Chambers' Blood Angels versus Jervis Johnson's Orks. Yeah, they talked about the rules changes, but that didn't dictate the units they picked. They picked what units would best help them to WIN the game, rather then what would best help them to illustrate the maximum number of new game rules.

But with the Black Templars Vs. Eldar battle report, they instead picked units based on how many different rules those units would allow them to explain. Talk about putting the cart before the horse! How about picking units that'll help you WIN, and damn the rules? If a situation comes up that'll give you a chance to illustrate a rule, great! But don't suck out the fun of a battle report in the process!

*sigh* Oh, nevermind. :(

Griefbringer
19-06-2005, 14:15
You think that's bad? You should've seen the first Bretonnian battle report after their army book came out in 5th edition.

I distantly remember having seen this report once - was it not with Nigel Stillman playing the Bretonnians?

Luckily it was with the studio army, and not with the Bretonnian force that Stillman painted up the next year (which unfortunately was featured in WD).

Dargon
20-06-2005, 03:20
I distantly remember having seen this report once - was it not with Nigel Stillman playing the Bretonnians?Yep, it was in WD204, with Nigel Stillman fielding the Bretonnians, agaist Rick Priestley fielding a nasty little High Elf force devised by Tuomas Pirinen specifically to counter the Bretonnians.

Sure there were plenty of tactical mistakes, but at least they were aware of them and pointed them out at the end of the report so players could learn from their mistakes. Nigel wasn't the greatest tactician, but he was always trying new ways of using troops (such as when he fielded the Dwarfs in long lines against the High Elves to thwart the Repeater Bolt Throwers, when they played out the Grudge of Drong - WD210).

The Battle reports back then were played for fun, so they didn't concern themselves much about the exact costs of the opposing forces.

I really miss such reports - where else can you get entertaining tips on how to brew the perfect cup of tea in the middle of the battle :D . It's really a shame that Warhammer has lost the spirit and sense of fun that made it initially so entertaining. After all these years, my favorite Battle Report is still the clash between David Cain (winner of the 1st Warhammer Tournament) and Gordon Davidson (winner of the Staff Tournament) from WD190.

Just a (really off-topic) thought...

Commissar Vaughn
20-06-2005, 17:06
i remeber that battle report as well. personally always rather liked stillmans way of wargaming, neither side had picked an acurate force of 2k, but then again nobody ever did, preferring games like a call to arms, or a gathering of might. i worked it out once and it wasnt even a draw, both sides getting more than 8 victory pts each cant remember who "won" though. spose one of my favourite battle reports was the kislevites chasing chaos dwarfs down a long valley a very long time ago, or in 208 (possibly) the space wolves v tyranids game featuring a lovely squadron of predators.

anyway the best way to gather tactics from battle reports is to not do what the author did. you'lll have to do it the same way as the rest of us, see if u can fit your 5th ed force in an army using the 6th edition rules and play a few games, you'll soon see what works.