View Full Version : After my last 2nd edition game on a Daemon World.

29-06-2018, 03:02
We had a fun game with floating islands, Lava seas and webway portals. Lets say eldar and marines wont be returning to that Crone world again....lol

So I love 2nd....but ton of flaws.(slow games being one)
3rd had its merits but very bland
8th is pretty good but a bit bland and way too many rerolls and dice rolling in general.

So for years we have talked about what we like and don't like.

So on a long road trip Ive thought of a few changes....I know we can do 'whatever' we want but my point is to see where I may be going into a pitfall before we playtest.

So the premise is that the base 2nd edition ruleset will be used with these changes.

The changes are based on my preferences on what worked in the past editions.

We have Battle Rounds and turns (ala 8th)
Starting on the first battle round and the 1st players turn each psyker gets 1 warp card for each level.

Psychic works a bit like 3rd.
Level 1 or 2 pyskers get to shoot in the shooting phase OR they can cast 1 psychic power. Nullifies can be used within 24". Nullifies are now kept in hand until used.
Level 3 or 4 pyskers get to shoot AND cast 1 psychic power OR cast 2 psychic powers instead of shooting.

Troops must now be 50% of your build.

Facing is only important for Heavy weapons. Basic/Special/Pistol weapons can shoot 360.

Overwatch can only be ORDERED by a Mighty Hero/Champion. Only 1 Overwatch Order per Mighty hero character (keeps from too many units on overwatch)

Blast templates are still used but they work differently.

Each template does 1 hit for the center and 1 more for each inch. So 2 hits for 1", 3 hits for 1.5" 3 hits for 2" and max 4 hits for 3" templates, etc (models in the unit can be hit even if not under the template...ala sustained fire)
This is to speed up the game with spacing models. No model/location can be hit more than once. So extra hits can be lost.

IF an Template misses and scatters and hits a unit(s)...there is no more 'partials'...but with no center hits each template will do 1 less hit than normal. (I think this is a better fix than 8th).
The Flame template hits 3 models in a unit(s) and the Heavy Flame template hits 5 models max

The way it works with vehicles is that each location can only be hit if under the template. Thus the 1.5" is different than the 2". The maximum hits are still the same. So a 2" template can still only hit 3 hits/locations max on a vehicle. There are no 'partial' rolls.

To speed up close combat I present this revised system. We are keeping the 2nd edition HtH even though I don't like it ....the others do. (it is the slowest version)

The Players turn chooses the combat.
The model with the highest Initiative picks the first duel. Every model can ONLY roll a maximum number of attack dice based on the Attack characteristic. So if you have a Captain with 3 attacks + 1 pistol attack bonus he can roll 4 dice that round. So with this marine captain we have a combat with 3 orks around him. The Captain decides to use 1 dice on each ork and adds his 4th to the first one. The orks all have 2 dice each in this example. Captain has highest initiative and picks a duel. The orks decide to use all dice vs the captain. So the Marine is 2 dice + WS 7 vs the first ork and the ork is 2 dice + WS 4 back, The next ork Duel is WS 7 + 1 die vs WS 4 + 2 dice, and so on. There are no bonuses for extra models, etc.

This keeps 'super' characters from mopping up a lot of battles unless you are a BloodThirster or Hive Tyrant you will probably kill 3 or 4 models at most. If there are multiple models you may find you run out of dice and there can be models with WS but no dice in HtH....no duels are resolved for those models unless at least 1 is using an attack dice for the combat.

EVERY unit still has a base defense value of WS. So in the example above if there is 2 more orks are fighting the Captain. The captain allocates his hits as above. When it comes to the last 2 orks...the captain has a WS 7 and no dice....while they still have a ws of 4 + 2 dice each. Chances are they may get a few hits on the captain.

(this will cut down on dice rolling and can speed up some of the battles)


This is a tough one.

We have vehicles that blow up too easily or have way too many Vehicle upgrade cards. Ablative armor is a base for every vehicle and it gets boring after a while.

I would like to make all Vehicle upgrade cards RARE. So only 1 per army.

Since upgrades are limited and templates are more likely to hit locations now the Penetration/damage rolls are modified.

If the penetration roll misses by 1 point then it is a Glancing Hit. That location gets a result of a 1 on that damage chart.
If the Penetration roll is successful then you roll a d3 on the damage chart. (vehicles will be considerably survivable)
If the penetration roll is successful by a result 3 or more above the AV value then you roll Catastrophic hit... d6+1 for the damage chart result. Example of 22 Hull and the roll is a 25 [this stacks with open topped/graviton gun bonuses]

So Vehicles will get hit more often (with templates) and easier with Glancing hits but should survive more. When you do get a great penetration roll the vehicle will die quicker.

Any other ideas or thoughts.

In summation this is still 2nd edition for the most part. There will be more infantry models in the game and less super characters /vehicles. Less Overwatch and quicker model placement/movement. No psychic phase will speed up the game and make those models less powerful in many ways. Vehicles will gain some endurance but will take more wear and tear.

Commissar von Toussaint
04-07-2018, 20:50
If you go to the "2nd edition memories" threat I think we uploaded some common fixes cooked up back on Portent. Turned out everyone was using pretty much the same house rules. Or you could click on my signature. :D

A key point in playing 2nd is doing it correctly. That may sound condescending, but GW didn't do the best idea of keeping its rules clear so a lot of well-meaning people were playing the game wrong. The best proof of this is that the BattleBible that is still circulating has a number of mistakes that were quite common back in the day. Fixing those mistakes makes the game go faster and play better.

Off the top of my head, here are some quick ways to speed up the game:

- No persistent templates. Once a blast goes off, it goes off. No rolling for plasma to expand or contract, no bothering with characters on fire.

The sole exception is blind grenades, which last a complete player turn before dissipating.

- Don't roll for scatter on jump pack troops. It's a pain and annoying. Have Orks roll a d6 for each stormboy and on a 1 they have a mishap as in the rules.

Regarding close combat, I put a revised, faster system together a while ago. (http://www.ahlloyd.com/2016/11/new-warhammer-40k-combat-resolution-system.html) Basically roll one die per fight and treat re-rolls, extra attacks as positive modifiers. Similar odds, goes much faster.

Pyskers are a huge time sink. We never use them.

-Vehicles and overwatch work fine, but if there isn't enough cover, vehicles will dominate. No easy way around that one. I happen to like them as is.

- Vehicle upgrades are specifically limited to one example of a given modification per army. There's some wiggle room if you use different combinations, but having everyone just have ablative armor and nothing else is a no-no. If people are stacking them, they are putting a lot of points into a single basket.