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x-esiv-4c
16-06-2005, 03:33
Hey,
Have any of you gotten into a heated debate over a rule interpretation? Has someone obviously been cheating and confronting them lead into a shouting match? Whats the worst thing you've seen happen during a game, a lemus russ getting chucked across the room ?

Strikerkc
16-06-2005, 03:41
Hmmm, never actualy saw an all out brawl, let alone a real heated argument. Most rules discusions have gone along the lines of

-"It lets me do this"
-"Not that I knew of"
-"Yea it does, it's in the codex, I'll show you"..."well i'll be, must have been thinking of unitX instead. My bad."

5upr3m3 h4xx0rz
16-06-2005, 03:43
Same where i am. But thats probably because only one kid really REALLY cares about winning. I beat him once and he didnt talk to me for a couple days (he is very good, though, so he doesnt lose often).

Thousandth Son
16-06-2005, 05:07
I have seen some arguments (i would be surprised if people haven't seen some form of argument). Most of mine involve the other person getting really excited about a rule, because I question them. They start yelling at me, and I smile, and add it too my memory as a good story for later. ;)

Pertinax
16-06-2005, 10:12
Worst I've seen is that somebody got so angry when they were caught "mis-reading" a rule, that they stormed out of the shop where they were playing, sans-figures.

The figures stayed in the shop for about two weeks, and we didn't see their owner in that time at all.

Eventually, I called him up, and told him that if he didn't pick up the figures, they would be ditched. Then he came in to pick them up. But we didn't see him for about a week after that either...

MidnightResistance
16-06-2005, 10:18
There was a debate over how some cover was working after I had moved and planend to shoot.
The other guy was really insistant that you can't see through woods at all, opposed to being able to see 6" through woods.
I looked at the wood covered board, smiled because I needed lots of cover to hide from all his obscene number of plasma guns, then told him I would agree if he let me begin my turn again...which he did.
I handed his **** to him on a silver tray :)

Typheron
16-06-2005, 10:18
ive seen some heated talk about the rules, never a all out brawl (i would ask why your getting so worked up about a game).


worst ive seen is a younger gamer claiming that in a night fight you could see everything since his forward most squad rolled and could see everyone. I should be noted the same younger gamer had his terminator librarian hanging off a pitched roof of sone of the buildings.

He argured it continually to the person he was playing till both myself and the store staff told him otherwise. Needless to say he was not too happy but just sulked and a bit claiming that he would win anyway.

MidnightResistance
16-06-2005, 10:24
OOh ooh. I got another one.
This noobie had 1 tau with a railrifle on his own.
It was his 'sniper' and he demanded he should be able to field it because all his friends thought a tau sniper was just soooo cool.
I looked at his badly composed army, weighed up the chances of the game being fun or me just kicking his ****, said ok, and shot his sniper with a lascannon :D

Bingo the Fun Monkey
16-06-2005, 10:28
There's this kid who's a football player (or he was in high school) who can get pretty heated up about various things (once, in a fantasy game, my cannon shot plowed through a unit of hit and also managed to hit an RBT that was also in the path) but he doesn't do anything worse than shout and most people just smile and nod when this happens. The worst I've seen is someone smashing someone else's minis with the BBB...but that wasn't at the store i go to.

The Beast
16-06-2005, 16:15
Arguments? I don't get into arguments. I enlighten others about my point of view which is always right. :) In truth the hardest one is always what counts as cover and my friends always positioning their guys just right so they can claim I get no cover save. They usually win because it makes sense.

x-esiv-4c
16-06-2005, 16:20
I would have to say that the strangest thing I've seen is a 16 year old cry when he started to get his ass handed to him in the 3rd turn of a game...i mean, really cry.

Adept
16-06-2005, 16:30
The worst I've seen is someone smashing someone else's minis with the BBB...but that wasn't at the store i go to.

Now that's where I draw the line. I see a lot of keyboard warriors telling people how violent they would get if they caught someone using loaded dice, or cheating, but if someone actually decides to destroy the models I bought with my money, and that I put hours and hours of work into, then I will do my utmost to take that person to task.

Anvils Hammer
16-06-2005, 16:34
OOh ooh. I got another one.
This noobie had 1 tau with a railrifle on his own.
It was his 'sniper' and he demanded he should be able to field it because all his friends thought a tau sniper was just soooo cool.
I looked at his badly composed army, weighed up the chances of the game being fun or me just kicking his ****, said ok, and shot his sniper with a lascannon :D

ROFL!!!

you are a twisted b******, but DAMN thats funny!

Norminator
16-06-2005, 16:35
In a friendly game at a friend's house, In turn 1 we (it was 2vs2):

1) Blew up his landraider, which had so far only killed 3 wraithguard.
2) Blew up his dread, which had done nothing.
3) Carved up his termie assault squad IN ASSAULT with only 2 casualties in return.
4) Blew up his land speeder tornado, which had done nothing as well.
5) Planted a vindicator shot in the middle of his army, shredding his command squad, devastator squad and regular termie squad.

And guess what?

He started crying and refused to play - a 13year old crying because he was losing a game of toy soldiers!

Sojourner
16-06-2005, 16:35
There isn't much room for arguments if you're sensible. If the book says it, you can do it. If it's ambiguous, roll a dice for it as it says.

Captain Brown
16-06-2005, 17:35
Why argue over a war game? Life is too short, roll a dice if you can't agree and get over it. Very embarrassing seeing people raise their voices over differing interpretations of the rules. I do not mind people pulling out books to check on rules and read out the black and white. Usually that will solve any disagreement, but if it goes beyond that roll a dice with a 50/50 chance and apply the result to this game. It is far better to discuss something like that over beer later.

So sadly no, I have no "cool" argument stories to relate here. Might be the fact I only game at GW stores at the request of the Manager or Area Manager and then only private games against staff.

Lord Malachi
16-06-2005, 17:57
The group of guys I game with rarely get into arguments mainly because we have played together for a few years now so most of the ambiguous rules have already been discussed and settled on.

One lesson that is valuable to learn is this - try to work out potential problems before hand. A good example of this is terrain. Whenever we setup terrain we always make sure that all the parameters are agreed to before beginning the game. What blocks line of sight, what kind of cover saves are gained, etc.

I've had "discussions" on other forums where some people insist on the rules in the BBB as being absolute, which would be fine if they were all well written and took all possibilities into account (but they aren't and can't). I am a firm believer in logic and if you (or I) can make a logical argument for a rule interpretation, I am more than willing to agree.

In the last game I played the issue of deep striking speeders came up. The deep strike rules say that a deep striking unit places one model then the others surround it in rings. Well, speeders can have 4" cohesion and my opponent argued that they could come on the board that way. A strict reading of the rules would probably deny this, but I thought that the idea of speeders decending from high altitude in base to base contact was unlikely, so I agreed to the 4" cohesion. I don't expect everyone to play it that way and against another opponent it might be done differently.

x-esiv-4c
16-06-2005, 18:13
I feel that the best way to settle a rule dispute without getting to heated is just 1-3 my way 4-6 your way...Roll.

blitz589
16-06-2005, 18:41
Hey,
a lemus russ getting chucked across the room ?
It wasnt really an argument, but a whirlwind flew. His whrilwind couldnt hit a single gaunt, and when it exploded it took 3 space marines with it. So it killed more of his own units then mine, ant he chucked it at the wall.

Inquisitor Samos
16-06-2005, 18:58
The very worst dispute I ever saw happened over what turned out to be a clear rules misinterpretation. What made it so bad was that one of the players just refused to settle the issue and get on with the game, but just sat there continually repeating his view on the matter. He wouldn't even think about compromising, wouldn't even discuss options; just kept saying how he saw it and insisting his was the correct view (it wasn't), and as far as he was concerned the game wasn't going forward until his opponent agreed.

The other guy was having none of it, and wouldn't totaly give in either, although to his credit he did offer a compromise. Eventually the second guy just stood up and said something to the effect of "Fine, then I'm done" but with several choice words of invective added, collected up his army, and left.

The first one just sat there, looking smug, like he'd won. He wasn't a bit apologetic later when someone got a Codex and proved he was wrong, either; it just made him angry.

I generally try to avoid playing against people that have that sort of attitude toward playing a miniatures game!

The D6 roll-off thing works just fine for the people I normally get to play in games..... we're all just wanting to have an enjoyable time, and don't get all worked up over rules disputes and such. Usually, if it's something one or both players feels really strongly about, we'll go look it up later, and then we either make a "house ruling" for the future if the matter isn't clear, or the person who's wrong owes the one who's right a drink or a lunch!

Ribbo
16-06-2005, 19:01
Theres this strange kid at gw i go to, he has an 'orc battlewagon' ... its the same size as his wartrakk....yea, oh and it has movable wheels so you can 'push' it along the scenery...
Another thing i hate is when people power game, even in inquisiter.

nurgle_boy
16-06-2005, 19:06
gah, i know, that dudes an ass.
as for powergamers, i hate em.. especially ones that bend the rules slightly, against gamers that arent aware of their armies rules.

Thud
16-06-2005, 19:10
Arguements? No, actually. I've never had one.

Well, actually, I do have regular "arguements" with my mate, but those aren't really serious and are usually something like "your Space Wolves are the wrong shade of gray and thus cannot use a Land Raider and you are also banned from using red dice!!" ;)

x-esiv-4c
16-06-2005, 19:33
"your Space Wolves are the wrong shade of gray and thus cannot use a Land Raider and you are also banned from using red dice!!" ;)


hehe, I've done things like that, always lightens up a game.

Darkness
16-06-2005, 20:51
The only arguments I have had in a game was in a very tense battle at a tournament, where myself another person were on the top table in the last game. Whoever won the game, won the tournament. Understandably, my opponent wanted to win at all costs, and resorted to cheating, bending the rules, and being an absolute rules lawyer towards me, questioning anything and everything I did, to try and take as large an advantage as he could, wherever he could.

Nevertheless, after just the first turn of this happening, I was less than pleased, and showed this kid where he stood. From turn 2, I myself turned into a rules lawyer, and made his life complete and utter hell. The game was by far the worst game of 40k I have ever played, unspirited and completely hot under the collar. There was no fun in it at all. However, in the end, the kid lost to me after quite a hefty amount of luck on my half, though where I would usually have joked about the other player's bad luck, this was not the case. This guy was such an annoying git that the only conversation ever made during the game was for him to argue about something, or declare that I had done something apparently illegal in the rules. Very annoying, but being a tournament player, that's what I have to come to expect from some people.

hood_oz
17-06-2005, 00:22
...Understandably, my opponent wanted to win at all costs, and resorted to cheating, bending the rules, and being an absolute rules lawyer towards me, questioning anything and everything I did, to try and take as large an advantage as he could, wherever he could.

The way I like to see tournies, is if the person has been caught cheating, they are are cautioned, and lose sportsmanship points, if they do it again, they are dropped form the tournie and all battles they played are handed over as victories to whoever played him. (unless they are using loaded dice or some other obvious cheating tactic, and then they are GONE straight away)

I remember a game against someone who had a SM vet squad which was missing its backpacks, and most of the arms, and he decided that in combat they all had two close combat weapons, then at the end of that SAME assault phase wanted to use the power fists they were supposedly equipped with. Its like, hang on, how many arms do these guys have? And you have already taken the attacks for these models how do you get extra attacks? The main clincher for the guy refereeing was that neither of us could see what the model was equipped with, and therefore they were all equipped with the weapon fit he initially stated. (he was not happy about that and I ended up handing him a game of whoop@$$)

Shame you didnt enjoy the game, as thats the whole point, it is to ENJOY the game, we all have horror stories, and have all made mistakes in reading rules and so on the first time round. I still prefer to get a few games in with GW staff to be clear on the new rules before gaming against my friends or in tournies. And the GW guys are always happy for a game or two.

dodicula
17-06-2005, 02:19
Again we avoid yelling with humor, calling people stuff like: A Nurgle Ceetah (Filthy Cheater)

EVIL INC
17-06-2005, 03:14
There was a tble that got flipped over. DARN lucky he wasnt playing me.
I have also seen a rulebook riped up.
I didnt do either.

neXus6
17-06-2005, 03:26
Aside from a guy dogedly holding onto his views of certain rules and it taking 3 people and him being shown the rule in question before he accepts it I've not really seen to much of this kind of thing. Most of the games I play are pretty fun and light hearted, though obviously you get some opponents that just on your nerves. :p

Long_Fang
17-06-2005, 04:02
This was at a Grand Tournament in Toronto, a few years back.

After I moved my 3 Rhinos, I declared shooting with them...before I roll the dice I say, "All this pressure I forgot to disembark". The guy laughs and says its too late. I tried to reason with him since I actually didn't even roll one die, but it was a waste of time.

He ended up shooting down all 3 rhinos and killed a bunch of my Space Wolves left in the wreckage. .....but then he charged me.....it felt good to make his army phase out the next turn....but it felt bad that the game had to end with no hand shake or smile....

I guess I should have remember to disembark before I decided to shoot, but I could not help being pissed the guy was a jerk about it. After that I could not have a good time during that game, no matter how hard I tried.... :(

EVIL INC
17-06-2005, 04:50
The guy you played was in the wrong, you have until you start measuring ranges and dice rolling to move or disembark.
I remember playing in a few tournies a few years ago in Frederik Md, there was a guy no one wanted to play that they called "the mad general". This was because the guy was a jerk and yelled and argued the entire time.