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Boduddley
29-03-2005, 22:19
:)
I know that a new codex for the Tyranids is coming out soon, but I'm really trying to figure out how the new rule book affects the Tyranids [ for the better and for the worse]

Thanks!

Sgt John Keel
29-03-2005, 22:20
And your point is?

Anyway, read the Rumour Roundup, it contains a lot of nice info.

/Adrian

Edit: Sorry, forgot. Welcome to Portent Temporary.

Boduddley
29-03-2005, 23:17
:)
I have been reading the Rumour roundup posts.

Alot of interesting stuff.

I was told by our local GW store that the Tyranid codex will be out this Summer, along with a new battle force.

Any confirms on that?

There appears to be alot of changes for the Tyranids coming soon.

Any word on army construction out there...
;)

I hope that Portent remains...

Sgt John Keel
29-03-2005, 23:24
:)
I have been reading the Rumour roundup posts.

Alot of interesting stuff.

I was told by our local GW store that the Tyranid codex will be out this Summer, along with a new battle force.

Yep. June/July release. A new battleforce seems quite logical, as that is what they do with all new releases nowadays. Apparently the Hive Fleet rules have been thrown out the window and been partially incorporated into the ordinary list. No new units except the Brood Lord.

Oh, and if I would start a Tyranid army, I would certainly use Genestealers. They're so gorgeous.

/Adrian

Boduddley
30-03-2005, 23:02
:confused:

Any idea why the hive fleet rules will be tossed?

Personnally dropping the hive fleet will not really bother me.

Anything new regarding the points changes for the Hive?

It seems like the Space Marines can take out troops as cheap as Tyranids or even cheaper.

With Space Marine saves it hardly seems fair.

:eek:

P.S. Genestealers are awsome in any Tyranid army.

I wouldn't leave home [the Hive] without them. :D

t-tauri
01-04-2005, 06:29
Any idea why the hive fleet rules will be tossed?
Because they're easily abused, difficult for an opponent to check quickly and confusing if you've not played them. They are too flexible.

macbeth
01-04-2005, 07:36
Tyranids are probably those who are the least affected by the new rules...

They are not affected by the target rules, as they could not hide one behind the other.
They are not affected by the bikes rules, as they don't have bikes
They are not affected by the vehicle rules, as they don't have vehicles.
They don't even have rapid fire weapons!

The only change concerns HtH...

Akuma
01-04-2005, 12:10
They are not affected by the target rules, as they could not hide one behind the other.


You may be wrong here - with the new targeting rules there is no need for StBo - at least for me it's perfectly ok for one carni to hide behind another OR guards need to pass LD test to shoot HT when carni is right at claws langht

Deathjester26
01-04-2005, 15:52
Tyranids are probably those who are the least affected by the new rules...

They are not affected by the target rules, as they could not hide one behind the other.
They are not affected by the bikes rules, as they don't have bikes
They are not affected by the vehicle rules, as they don't have vehicles.
They don't even have rapid fire weapons!

The only change concerns HtH...
They may not have rapid fire weapons but trust me it sure does affect them. Not getting shot at is half the battle for nids.

Akuma
01-04-2005, 16:23
and now thay can be rapid fired from 18" ( 12" + 6" for movment ) and this hurts all CC armys

Brimstone
01-04-2005, 17:00
The codex is out on the 4th of June (UK) and the armybox the 7th of May.

twisted_mentat
01-04-2005, 19:23
I like that putting wings on something changes it....No more 100% Flying/fleeting/leaping armies...

and yes, the Hive Fleet rules were way to easy to abuse, if only beacuse one could create an army and and oppent would have no way of making sure everything was on the level without spending a couple of hours....

Boduddley
01-04-2005, 21:41
:)

Hive Fleet rules were even difficult for me, a Tyranid player, to keep straight at times.

That's why I tried to keep my Tyranid army as simple as possible.

Hopefully this will work in my favour with the new codex.

I just enjoy running across the table to engage my opponent as quickly as possible trying to avoid being shot to pieces.

:cool:

The Beast
04-04-2005, 19:26
and now thay can be rapid fired from 18" ( 12" + 6" for movment ) and this hurts all CC armys
Just remember minimum assault range in one turn for a horm is 19 inches :D

Boduddley
04-04-2005, 21:16
:)

I always try to make my army based on odds.

The dice roll odds of hitting, wounding, movement [extra movement] and of cousre of shooting [especially being shot at by the enemy].

I'm still trying to get a handle on all the extra shooting based on the new rule book and how it will affect by chances of survival..

Are there many changes in regards to the odds of surviability of the Tyranids in the new codex.

;)

Scythe
05-04-2005, 11:19
Just remember minimum assault range in one turn for a horm is 19 inches :D

Still, the new rapid fire rules aren't nice for termagaunts and genestealers, which were already bad choices, and simply only got worse. I reallly hope they are good choices (pts wise) with the new rules and options.

Boduddley
06-04-2005, 23:16
I also hope the point values for gaunts and stealers allow for higher numbers to balance out the new shooting rules!

;)


Still, the new rapid fire rules aren't nice for termagaunts and genestealers, which were already bad choices, and simply only got worse. I reallly hope they are good choices (pts wise) with the new rules and options.

Does anyone know the new point values for the Tyranids troops?

:cool:

obscenename
07-04-2005, 03:33
You can't say point cost on forums.

mawno
07-04-2005, 14:50
Anyone heard anything about TMC and escalation? A carnifex or a walking HT has a very small chance to reach the enemy in CC if he moves from the table edge, even if he(she?) arrives in turn 2. At least one turn movement lost and 12" longer to walk...

Eversor
07-04-2005, 17:42
Anyone heard anything about TMC and escalation?

Lictors will allow rerolls on reserve rolls. Small comfort, but still... If all else fails, equip your monsters for shooting ;)

(or just play scenarios without escalation...)

SHOGUN_YAMATO
07-04-2005, 23:03
First of all - the hive fleet rules are child's play. I don't really see why all of you complain about them being to complicated. Checking any tyranid army takes me about 5 min. The only things you need is 3 pages from the codex and a list with point costs and stats.

Nids and photoshop - in other posts people seem to hate all the photoshop redone pics. I like them... look much better then the ones on previous boxes :)

New codex - I think I will be able to get my hands on the new codex (but not the army box) in the first week of May. If this will come to be just PM me and you'll get all the info you need :)

Eversor
08-04-2005, 00:18
First of all - the hive fleet rules are child's play. I don't really see why all of you complain about them being to complicated. Checking any tyranid army takes me about 5 min. The only things you need is 3 pages from the codex and a list with point costs and stats.
While the rules are certainly understandable and fully functionable, they're unneccesarily complex; nothing much is gained from them over a normal army list. And the springing point is that the flexibility gained was just misused (some would say abused). They were intended to allow for a personalised army list. But what's unique about the spinegaunts everyone who wanted to be "competitive" used?

SHOGUN_YAMATO
08-04-2005, 08:49
Hm... spinegaunts - you could get the most models for the least points. But I rearly seen them on the table (I live in Poland). They are just to fragile, but good to keeping table quaters.

I used the list to upgrade my Tyrants, Carnifexes and Hormagaunts thats all. The only thing that seemed odd was the possibility for a winged Hive Tyrant to Leave his Tyrant Guard. This is an abuse I agree.

I really hope some point cost efficiency is done in the new codex 'cause some other armies have units with similat cost but much better stats :/

Scythe
08-04-2005, 10:37
And wouldn't it be much easier to just have those upgrades printed in the army list itself, like in the new codex? I think the new format is a huge improvement. Switching back and front trough your codex is not really handy... Plus the mutant rules in particular could lead to some abusable choices. Why can ripper swarms have venon cannons? :confused:

SHOGUN_YAMATO
08-04-2005, 13:40
They can yep. But it is not cost eficient to have those. And hitting on 5+ is a nonsens.

But yep I agree - getting thise things in the normal list is a nice thing. I only hope that it will still be available to upgrade WS BS and such on Hive Tyrants, Carnifexes and Gaunts :)

Scythe
08-04-2005, 17:27
As far as we know currently, all those upgrades are still available, and a bunch of new ones. We know that carnifexes have access to a really huge amount of new biomorphs like bonded exoskeleton and reinforced chitin (+1T and +1W respectively), tail upgrades, back upgrades and jaw upgrades, and I think a fair number of creatures will have some additional morphs as well.

SHOGUN_YAMATO
08-04-2005, 20:09
I know, I keep close track on all the nids news on this forum before and since the server crash :)

The list of new morphs look impresive, just hope it will be cost efficient :)

I wonder what to buy next :)

Now I have 32 Horma and 32 Termagaunts.

2 Hive Tyrants (both winged, 2xST and 1xST 1xVC)

2 Carnifexes (2xVC both)

3 Biovores

3 Warriors (shooty ones)

12 Genestealers

Any sugestions what to buy next (except of 1 Carnifex, which I'm going to buy definetly) to make a powerfull 1800 pts tournament army (standard points cost on tournaments in Poland) ??

Scythe
09-04-2005, 09:50
Well, that's nearly impossible to say without having seen the new codex... But from what I've heard lictors will be really sweet under the new rules. Since warriors are also rumoured to get a boost, a few additional ones will probably be nice.

On the warriors, I really hope they make them worth it this time. They are one of my favorite nid models, and I'll probably have 18 of them after buying the army deal...

SHOGUN_YAMATO
09-04-2005, 16:31
hehe... yep, warriors are nice :) I think of having one squad of them as a synaps/support for gaunts and stealers.

I hope to get my hands on the codex in the first week of may :D

Brimstone
09-04-2005, 16:41
Since warriors are also rumoured to get a boost, a few additional ones will probably be nice.

Well the warrior stat line has actually dropped, they are closer to their entry in the create your own hive fleet list and that includes the points.

Of course you can always add on a few biomorphs to boost them back up again.

Gabekun
09-04-2005, 17:17
Well the warrior stat line has actually dropped, they are closer to their entry in the create your own hive fleet list and that includes the points.

Of course you can always add on a few biomorphs to boost them back up again.

Can Warriors still take Leaping, do you know?

Brimstone
09-04-2005, 17:32
Can Warriors still take Leaping, do you know?

Why yes they can, can also take wings but then they become Fast Attack choices.

Gabekun
09-04-2005, 19:15
Why yes they can, can also take wings but then they become Fast Attack choices.

Excellent. I've left my 6 warriors sitting in their boxes unbuilt, since I didn't want to convert them, only to find out they can't leap anymore.

Thanks, Brim :D

the spook
09-04-2005, 19:35
Sounds like Sir Brim has been sneaking looks of the new codex and hasn't been spilling the beans to rest of us...

Come on Brim, stop teasing and give us some goods man...

Wraith
09-04-2005, 19:39
With the wings do they count as a 'weapons choice'?

What I mean is what with the Tyranids having six limbs does having wings rightfully take up two of those six limbs?

Mr_Rose
09-04-2005, 23:20
Technically, as a movement option, wings should replace the legs. how the player models biomorphs is, however, entirely up to them. This ridiculous state of affairs was not helped by the horrible "winged tyrant" "conversion" in the colour section of the 3rd Ed. 'nid codex (you cant miss it; it's huge and green and has eight(!) limbs), which probably acted as an example to those people out there lacking in biology...
In essence the winged 'nids should look something like the FW harridan or the GW gargoyle, or even something in between. Unfortunately, as yet, very few people have attempted to create such a creature, evidently preferring the route laid out in the codex; add two blobs of greenstuff and a pair of plastic dragon wings and call it job done. :rolleyes:

Brimstone
10-04-2005, 05:15
With the wings do they count as a 'weapons choice'?

What I mean is what with the Tyranids having six limbs does having wings rightfully take up two of those six limbs?

Nope they are just a biomorph upgrade, you still have to take two weapon symbiotes as well.

Inquisitor Engel
10-04-2005, 05:25
In essence the winged 'nids should look something like the FW harridan or the GW gargoyle, or even something in between.
Or the FW Winged Hive Tyrant. ;)

Brimstone
10-04-2005, 07:05
Sounds like Sir Brim has been sneaking looks of the new codex and hasn't been spilling the beans to rest of us...

Come on Brim, stop teasing and give us some goods man...

Read the roundup it's pretty accurate. ;)

Fabricator General
10-04-2005, 07:43
Should the "proper" terrestrial-based biology rules apply to creatures from beyond the galactic plane? Who's to say there can't be an eight or twelve legged tyranid, especially when they recombine genetic material from so many sources? Also, on p.37 of the current niddex, in the chart of hypothetical tyranid evolution, the catachan devil is listed as possibly being related to a ravener, and it has as many legs as a centipede!

I wonder if the FW winged tyrant will be covered in the new niddex, as it's "scything wings" bring up a whole new realm of recombinant wing/weapon possibilities. Imagine how cool rending wings or bonesword wings would look...

I personally have an eight limbed winged HT, but unlike the tall-standing green one from the codex, it is posed with wings half-folded behind, crouching low and leaning forward with the double scything talons. :)

Scythe
10-04-2005, 08:50
Well the warrior stat line has actually dropped, they are closer to their entry in the create your own hive fleet list and that includes the points.

Of course you can always add on a few biomorphs to boost them back up again.

Well, that's what I expected. The boost I think is mainly the increase of ranged weapon effectiveness, the immune to instant kill, and hopefully some adjusted points values. Strange tough that warriors still have access to leaping. I am under the impression that this would make raveners not that needed anymore. Still, about the warriors, do you know if warriors have access to the bonded exoskeleton and reinforced chitin biomorphs? I know the carnifex and probably the hive tyrant have access to these biomorphs, but can any other nids take them?

I'm also wondering if the basic BS from warriors has been increased. Gaunts with a higher basic BS than warriors always seened a bit odd to me.

Brimstone
10-04-2005, 10:15
Well, that's what I expected. The boost I think is mainly the increase of ranged weapon effectiveness, the immune to instant kill, and hopefully some adjusted points values. Strange tough that warriors still have access to leaping. I am under the impression that this would make raveners not that needed anymore.

But Raveners are beasts. Warriors just have leaping, that makes leaping warriors slower than Rav's.


Still, about the warriors, do you know if warriors have access to the bonded exoskeleton and reinforced chitin biomorphs? I know the carnifex and probably the hive tyrant have access to these biomorphs, but can any other nids take them?

They are Carnifex exclusive biomorphs.


I'm also wondering if the basic BS from warriors has been increased. Gaunts with a higher basic BS than warriors always seened a bit odd to me.

Seems odd to me as well but it's still the case although you can match them by using enhanced senses.

Scythe
10-04-2005, 10:42
But Raveners are beasts. Warriors just have leaping, that makes leaping warriors slower than Rav's.


Mistake on my behalf. I thought 'leaping' and 'beast' ment practically the same in the new codex. So I assume leaping remains at it is, 12" charge range and extended support zone?

Anyway, thanks for the info Brimstone.

Wraith
10-04-2005, 12:06
I'm some what confused -- can warriors fleet of claw in any fashion with the new codex?

twisted_mentat
10-04-2005, 18:03
So fly 12", fleet d6, then charge 12".....so thats a possible 30" movement on turn one...

will that be possible? or will putting wings on things that fleet or leap, cancel out that ability?

Inquisitor Engel
10-04-2005, 18:15
will that be possible? or will putting wings on things that fleet or leap, cancel out that ability?
IIRC only one movement type is allowed for any one model.

Brimstone
10-04-2005, 18:19
I'm some what confused -- can warriors fleet of claw in any fashion with the new codex?

Leaping does not grant FoC just the 12" charge range and extended attack radius.

Being a beast gives you FoC and a 12" range but no extended attack.

Hormagaunts are both.

So the short answer to your question is no. :p

Wraith
10-04-2005, 19:10
Ok, thanks for clearing that up Brimstone. :)

Brimstone
10-04-2005, 19:23
It's a bit confusing though as it contradicts the rulebook. But it seems to be clearly explained.

Bruen
10-04-2005, 20:19
And the springing point is that the flexibility gained was just misused (some would say abused). They were intended to allow for a personalised army list. But what's unique about the spinegaunts everyone who wanted to be "competitive" used?

I don't disagree with you but how is that different from any other army list?
All armies suffer from a proportion of players who go for the "best" choice regardless, for example the following are very common because they are seen as the "best":

5-Marine Las/Plas Tactical squads
BA Chaplains with Jump Packs
Iron Warriors armies with all 4 HS slots filled

If you ask me all army lists should be as flexable as the hive fleet rules were.

hallon_apl
10-04-2005, 20:53
If you ask me all army lists should be as flexable as the hive fleet rules were.

Although OT, I second to that.
At least until I play a powergamer for the first time! :p

twisted_mentat
11-04-2005, 02:00
IIRC only one movement type is allowed for any one model.

So do you mean that right now, someone who biomorphs his Hormagaunts to have wings looses the fleet of claw and Leaping abilities? Or is that with the new book?

Because if the flying, fleeting, leaping gaunts are illegal...

Inquisitor Engel
11-04-2005, 03:18
So do you mean that right now, someone who biomorphs his Hormagaunts to have wings looses the fleet of claw and Leaping abilities? Or is that with the new book?
The Chaos Codex states that a model may only have one type of movement capabilities. It can't fly and have the daemonic speed ability of the 12" charge. I recall there being a rule such as this in the rulebook, I don't have it on me, and I could be wrong.

To be honest, something moving 12", d6", and then 12" again is simply insane, as well as extremely cheesy. I don't recall seeing such a rule in the Codex, but I wasn't looking for it either.

Don't quote me on it going either way.

Brimstone
11-04-2005, 04:22
So do you mean that right now, someone who biomorphs his Hormagaunts to have wings looses the fleet of claw and Leaping abilities? Or is that with the new book?

Because if the flying, fleeting, leaping gaunts are illegal...

It's fairly simple with the new book

Gaunt with wings = Gargoyle
Gaunt with leaping = Hormagaunt

Eversor
11-04-2005, 04:38
Because if the flying, fleeting, leaping gaunts are illegal...
To the best of my recollection (don't have the Tyranid codex handy) they would be illegal. A model can have either leaping or flying. Fleet is something inherent to the Gaunt genus, and is a bonus... Of course, I could have this all backwards.

If Brimstone is correct (he most likely is, as he's seen the codex ;)) this will be made clearer in the new codex.

EDIT: And oh, another thing... What the Chaos codex says doesn't enter in to it ;) Those are rules for chaos gifts, not biomorphs... The end result is the same though: only one movement mode for a model.

Bruen
11-04-2005, 05:55
To the best of my recollection (don't have the Tyranid codex handy) they would be illegal. A model can have either leaping or flying. Fleet is something inherent to the Gaunt genus, and is a bonus... Of course, I could have this all backwards.

Thats not strictly true, although you can't have a creature with both leaping and wings you can still have leaping and fleet if the creature is classed as a beast by the new rulebook (like warriors for example).

I would imagine that this will go away with the new codex though.

SHOGUN_YAMATO
11-04-2005, 06:14
Gaunts always have fleet of claw/wing.

Look at the TROOPS section of the 3ed 'nid dex. It is just that Gragoyles can't shoot after using fleet of wing.


BTW - how did they solve the problem of the winged tyranids and difficult terrarin. Are agunts and tyrants with wings able to enter difficult terrain or not ??

Brimstone
11-04-2005, 06:21
BTW - how did they solve the problem of the winged tyranids and difficult terrarin. Are agunts and tyrants with wings able to enter difficult terrain or not ??

Winged Tyranids count as jump infantry with all the associated rules that go along with that, so they would have to take a dangerous terrain test.

So no more auto death for gargoyles.

Scythe
11-04-2005, 10:44
That's good to hear. Do gargoyles stay the same as they are except for that change? They are a very pts effective buy in the current codex (tough buying the models requirs a large investment), and I'm wondering if they stay as effective.

Brimstone
11-04-2005, 18:25
Well they have gone up in points slightly but gain from this new rule (plus the fact you no longer have to auto move into terrain with the revsion of the instictive behaviour rules)

Also the fleshborer stats have been revised so that's also a benefit.

Nystral
12-04-2005, 21:11
Will the new dex have updated Seeding swarm rules, or can I follow the rules that are in CA 2003? Or is this going to be a grey area that will be covered in a FAQ 4.0 for the Nids?

right now I'm looking to be a new NID player and I want to be planning my army (painting the broad strokes and keeping an eye out for good deals on eBay). Can I pick up the current dex and have a rough idea of what I'll be looking at, assuming I keep in mind the rumor round up? I'm really liking the idea of the seeding swarm army, which I can expand as I see fit.

Brimstone
12-04-2005, 21:17
Seeding swarms are gone, you could probably come up with a bastard set of rules though but they would be very very oponents consent.

If you are starting Tyranids then a seeding swarm isn't the best place to start, try a more conventional force first and the seeding swarm later.

If you don't mind spending the money then then it isn't a bad place to start at all with a lot of it being carried over to the new codex.

Bruen
12-04-2005, 21:35
Seedling swarms were a lot of fun :)

I liked it when I came up against one of those min/max Las/Plas shooty Marine armies.

twisted_mentat
13-04-2005, 03:58
Okay, that clears stuff up. At least the Tyranid Guy who did stuff like that has moved onto his Dark Eldar Witch/Lord Delivery system army.....that mesures distance from the raider from the very front tip of the model....

But it looks like putting wings on gaunts makes them Fast attack, so you cannot have a 100% flying army...

SHOGUN_YAMATO
13-04-2005, 11:01
As far as I know, Ripper Swarms with Wings are still troops. Nid dex, p 40 states no info as to the Rippers with wings becoming Fast Attack, so you buy 2x3 Bases of Winged Rippers and there you go, an all flying nid army :)

But this could be changed by the new dex.

I disagree with on of the posts that wings on Tyrants should be very expensive (some SM player wrote that). A 0-1 Winged Tyrant is a good solution. And if you can still give him a 2+/6+ inv (rumours) save that is good indeed.

I may be called a power gamer but this derives not only from me wanting to win all the time :) I like good, balanced games. I personally like draw results - all are happy then. The thing is that in POLAND people earn 5 time less per month that those in the UK for example. So buying an army when you earn about 250 a month is and ovious choice - you go for the best at the lowest cost.

Jeeezzz... I really hope I'll get my hands on the new dext in 3 week time :D

Brimstone
14-04-2005, 05:04
As far as I know, Ripper Swarms with Wings are still troops. Nid dex, p 40 states no info as to the Rippers with wings becoming Fast Attack, so you buy 2x3 Bases of Winged Rippers and there you go, an all flying nid army :)

But this could be changed by the new dex.



And it is, Ripper swarms with wings like Warriors become fast attack choices.

SHOGUN_YAMATO
14-04-2005, 05:23
HA ! Oh well, I wasent planing on it anyway :) I build around Terama and Horma mix with max Tyranrants. Are Carnies on the new dex a single 1-3 HS choice or not ?? And if so, do they have to move as a Squad ?? :)

Brimstone
14-04-2005, 05:28
Canifexes are one per heavy support choice.

In games of 1500 points or over, fexes under a certain points cost can be taken as Elites rather than heavy support.

As the copy I saw said "rather" I'd take this to mean that you cannot take them as both so the six fex army is not possible.

But we'll just have to wait for the official release to get this confirmed.

SHOGUN_YAMATO
14-04-2005, 06:27
Ok... wasn't planning on that anyways :) So I'm gonna buy only 1 new Carni.

Do you remember any differences in stats of Tyrant Guards ?? You can just say thay are cheaper, stronger and such. And their weapones payload would be a nice thing to know ;) (1 of My Tyrants will get them for sure).

Brimstone
14-04-2005, 16:07
Do you remember any differences in stats of Tyrant Guards ?? You can just say thay are cheaper, stronger and such. And their weapones payload would be a nice thing to know ;) (1 of My Tyrants will get them for sure).

They are exactly the same except they come with scything talons as standard. You can swap them out for a lash whip if you want.

The have a couple of biomorph options as well.

Scythe
15-04-2005, 17:01
I disagree with on of the posts that wings on Tyrants should be very expensive (some SM player wrote that). A 0-1 Winged Tyrant is a good solution. And if you can still give him a 2+/6+ inv (rumours) save that is good indeed.


Most people whining about this don't realise that Nid players pay a hefty pts price for wings, while Chaos gets Daemonic Flight for half the points. And a tooled daemon prince can take a hive tyrant easily under the current rules.

I'm not whining about the 0-1 restriction, which is fair enough, but more that people should stop complaining about cheesy winged hive tyrants...

SHOGUN_YAMATO
16-04-2005, 00:54
So true Scythe :)

I have the same fealings about the issue. Come of the guns and CC thingis are to expencive in the current codex. And the Venom Cannon is the best example.

And Demon Princes... well... it depends on the dice rolls. I usually get luck and kill the bastard (thank the Hive Mind for the Implant Attack).

Other players just don't see how well they are off with they stats, re-rolls, INV saves and such, especially SM and CSM. Eh... if the new dex is going to disapoint me I'm selling my nids and go for the SM or the Necrons :)

twisted_mentat
17-04-2005, 01:57
Why should i have to Tool up my Force commander or take 3 leman russes or other wise cheese out my army to deal with something that 90% of tyranid players take?

Bruen
17-04-2005, 07:41
Why should i have to Tool up my Force commander or take 3 leman russes or other wise cheese out my army to deal with something that 90% of tyranid players take?

That argument can be applied to any common army configuration:

Starcannon Eldar
Drop-pod marines
2 Chaplain/naked vet sgt BA
Siren
Tooled-up demon prince
etc

The art of designing an army is to make a list that can cope with all of these, rather than tailoring your army list to meet a particular opponent.

SHOGUN_YAMATO
17-04-2005, 07:46
Why should i have to Tool up my Force commander or take 3 leman russes or other wise cheese out my army to deal with something that 90% of tyranid players take?

Because it is the best option available. Most players use their most powerful options of HQ units :)

And commanders suck. Chaplains are much better, especially with Terminator Reclusiam Squad :D

And if you have problems with playing Nids ask some players fo swap armies with you and you'll see that it's not so easy to play them.

Anyway even the best tactic can be totally ruined by the dice rolls so don't nag and play.

It is supossed to bring joy to people. Play, win or lose but have fun with it :cool:

Scythe
17-04-2005, 09:12
You don't need to tool your army to fight tyranids. A well balanced army has a good chance against them. Possible exception is the 5 monstrous creatures army list, but most of those are relatively slow in movement and avoided.

About the winged hive tyrants, you don't need to tool your entire army to deal with them. A simple las/plas tactical squad can really restrict the tyrants movement, and a squad with a powerfist is also relatively safe. Sure, you need some AP2 weapons, but really, have you ever seen a marine army without plasma guns, lascannons or powerfists? Trick is to put them to the right effect. Other armies have simular units with simular tasks. Remember winged hive tyrants don't have invulnerable saves, can't hide in woods, and in the end only have 4 wounds.

boogle
17-04-2005, 09:19
don't worry about winged Hive Tyrants at all as now the best save they'll get is 3+ so Krak Missiles should sort things out pretty quickly

Scythe
17-04-2005, 09:38
As far as I know they still have access to warp field tough. Will be more expensive, but also comes with a 6+ inv save I believe.

boogle
17-04-2005, 09:52
yeah which is pretty much worthless to be honest

Brimstone
17-04-2005, 09:57
You still get a 2+ save with warp field so krak missiles still aren't too much use, it's the same old AP 1/2 weapons that we have to fear.

Still the points increase for game balance and the 6up invul is a bit of a downer.

twisted_mentat
18-04-2005, 03:17
I have NEVER played a Tyranid army that isn't maxed out and is very very annoying to play....theres just someting about the tyranids that attract gamers who want to just want to spit out the most nasty thing that a balanced army cannot handel...and in a blind game, you're up the creek

thats localy....i mean, i know theres good tyranid players out there...just beacuse i haven't met one...dosn't mean they don't exist...

I'm just hoping that the new codex will try to correct alot of the abuse the tyranid army gets from the whine and cheese crowed.

And i Do have a tyranid army...i've used it once..and these are some of the comments i've recived

"Your Hive Tyranid dosn't have wings?"
"You only have one Carnifex in 1500 pts?"
"You have Termagaunts and Hormagaunts?
"Only one unit of warriors has Rending claws?"
"You really should max out on monterous creatures..."

and so on...

Though i responded to most of those comments "well, because i'm not an ass..."

Scythe
18-04-2005, 18:07
You still get a 2+ save with warp field so krak missiles still aren't too much use, it's the same old AP 1/2 weapons that we have to fear.

Still the points increase for game balance and the 6up invul is a bit of a downer.

Hive Tyrants with wings can now at least get a cover save in woods. Granted, you have to take a dangerous terrain test, but a 5+ or 4+ cover save is quite nice...

SHOGUN_YAMATO
18-04-2005, 18:51
Hm... my 1500 Pts Army for the last Tournament looked like this:

Hive Tyrants, both winged, first with Scything Talons + Venom Cannon, second 2xScything Talons, Implant Attack, Bio-Plasma, +2 save, Catalyst, Warp Blast.

2 Cranies - 2xVennom Cannon both, 2+ save, max stats.

20 Hormies - WS, S, I and Leaping.

2x6 Genesealers, no morphs.

3 Biovores, Acid and Gas mines :)

If this is and ass army than I'm an ass ok... but it got my 4th place out of 18 guys, masacrating Sisters of Battle (Cleanse), Minor Defeat with Dark Eldar (Reccon) and a Draw with KHORN demon army (Take and Hold).

Bruen
18-04-2005, 19:19
Edit - OK no army lists.

Brimstone
18-04-2005, 19:28
No army lists please, this is the rumours forum stay on Topic.

There currently is no army list forum but you should post stuff like this in the tactics forum.

SHOGUN_YAMATO
18-04-2005, 19:36
Sorry Brimstone :) I just couldn't resist it.

I you want I can just del. my post no prob :)

The Beast
20-04-2005, 19:52
Finally my 2nd edition tyrant with bonesword, lashwhip and strangler will now be useful.