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icharus
22-06-2005, 11:34
Hi can anyone tell me their ideas on the unidentified object in the inside back cover of the Necron Codex, it's driving me a bit nuts. I have tried talking to some of the guys down at my local store and all i get is drivel, so can anybody help. Ta much.

Angelus Mortis
22-06-2005, 12:08
Don't know what copy you have, but inside back cover of mine shows a map of the galaxy.

Xisor
22-06-2005, 12:21
IIRC(I don't have the Codex on me at the moment) you are talking about the dark vessel. Roughly 1.4AU in radius. Where a star should have been.

Popular consensus that I know is that it is a Dyson Sphere, an artificial hollow sphere built to contain the entire power of a whole star. All the energy of a star is captured by the inside of the sphere. At 1.4 Au in radius, it is wide enough to contain the entire orbit of the Earth, hinting that the inner surface of the sphere, if atmosphered correctly could be habitable...

Furthermore it is postulated that this Dyson Sphere is in fact the prison of the Outsider, one of the two 'missing' C'tan(the other being the Dragon, thought to reside on Mars :eek: ). By reading other segments of the Codex with regards to the outsider, it seems to make quite good sense that this 'Unidentified Object' is the location of the Outsider.

Xisor

Praetorian
22-06-2005, 12:31
brrr- just got a chill. We fear necron :chrome:
Speaking of dyson spheres- are they able to fly around ala deathstar

FlameKnight
22-06-2005, 13:01
brrr- just got a chill. We fear necron :chrome:
Speaking of dyson spheres- are they able to fly around ala deathstar

No, they can't. Think of a big shell, with a star in the centre. There are many different versions, but the most extreme is that the shell surrounds the entire star at the size of a planet's orbit. The inner surface is inhabbitable. So no, you can't really move the dyson sphere unless you move the star within... Which I assume is a little difficult.

Karhedron
22-06-2005, 13:38
Furthermore it is postulated that this Dyson Sphere is in fact the prison of the Outsider, one of the two 'missing' C'tan
Actually it is not his prison, it is his lair. In the Corteswain fluff it describes all the bizarre machinery inside used to drain the energy from the star. If it were a prison then most likely the Outsider would have been left to starve. However it is definately of Necron construction, not Eldar and seems to be his fortress rather than a prison.

Xavier
22-06-2005, 13:41
Popular consensus that I know is that it is a Dyson Sphere, an artificial hollow sphere built to contain the entire power of a whole star. All the energy of a star is captured by the inside of the sphere. At 1.4 Au in radius, it is wide enough to contain the entire orbit of the Earth, hinting that the inner surface of the sphere, if atmosphered correctly could be habitable...

Furthermore it is postulated that this Dyson Sphere is in fact the prison of the Outsider, one of the two 'missing' C'tan(the other being the Dragon, thought to reside on Mars :eek: ). By reading other segments of the Codex with regards to the outsider, it seems to make quite good sense that this 'Unidentified Object' is the location of the Outsider.

Is what I always assumed it to be, and would go some way to explaining why the tyranid hive fleets are avoiding it.

Wiseman
22-06-2005, 14:10
is there any other records of other dyson spheres anywhere in the galaxy?

Lord Malachi
22-06-2005, 14:35
I guess the fact that the C'Tan feed off the energy of stars (amongst other things!) shows how truly bad they are. Ironically, the best weapons at the Imperium's disposal: lasers, plasma, and melta would probably just feed the strength of a C'Tan. Sort of like fending off a duck with popcorn. Good thing that our weapons work well against the necrodermis that contains a C'Tan and allows it to exist outside of a star...

You most likely couldn't create a human habitat inside a Dyson sphere as the radiation levels would be intense. The Earth's magnetic field and atmosphere protect us from from most of the Sun's bad effects. I guess a Dyson sphere would take the "greenhouse" effect to a whole new level. :eek:

Barbarossa
22-06-2005, 14:56
So no, you can't really move the dyson sphere unless you move the star within... Which I assume is a little difficult.

Well, if you can put something in a box, you can usually move it (most of the time). After all, you have the entire energy of the encased star at your disposal.

icharus
22-06-2005, 15:15
Originally Posted by Xisor
Popular consensus that I know is that it is a Dyson Sphere, an artificial hollow sphere built to contain the entire power of a whole star. All the energy of a star is captured by the inside of the sphere. At 1.4 Au in radius, it is wide enough to contain the entire orbit of the Earth, hinting that the inner surface of the sphere, if atmosphered correctly could be habitable...


Would that mean that the Lords of Terra know of this or did all knowledge of it get lost after the dark age of technology?

Donut
22-06-2005, 16:43
Possibly, though most likely the knowledge to build a Dyson Sphere would be way beyond anything that was possible, even during the Dark Age of Technology. Even then mankind still had some limits to what could be done.

Since this object is marked as unknown, either there are no fragments of knowledge remaining as to creating a Dyson sphere (beyond Dyson being mentioned occasionally during a techpriest litany) or humanity never managed to pull it off. I find the latter more likely.

x-esiv-4c
22-06-2005, 18:40
To get a good idea about the dimensions of a dyson sphere, play the game "Freelancer" the last 2 missions, you'll know what I mean.

icharus
22-06-2005, 19:03
There was an episode of Star Trek NG about a dyson sphere. I know it's aT V show but the dimensions were huge. That's the sort of thing you are talking about.

Inquis. Jaeger
22-06-2005, 19:38
Well the basic advantage is that one has the entire energy production of a star at one's disposal. Undoubtedly if you had the technology to construct a Dyson Sphere, you would also have the technology to ensure the inside surface is habitable. You don't even have to have that, you could just use it as a giant power plant.

Equally undoubtedly, the C'Tan, in Star-God form, are probably impervious to minor annoyances like hardcore radiation, seeing as they eat that kind of stuff. :D

Xisor
22-06-2005, 20:28
Agreed, on almost everyones points. I haven't got any sources for this, but *IIRC* a dyson sphere is not physically possible in a conventional sense. A simple shell of any material we yet know of(reinforced by materials we know of) would exert a gravity field such that the inner curvature of a sphere of radius ~1AU could not support it's own weight. I don't recall what the effects of thickening the shell materials...

No doubt this in essence means that 1- The inner surface is inhabitable, for Necrontyr anyway(who were exposed to intense radiation anyway) and 2- The thing *is* feasible through some crazy Necron contraption that allows it to support itself. Lastly, since we are dealing with Necrons and the C'tan, all of who are capable of FTL 'inertialess drive', phasing in and out of the natural flow of time, personal teleporting, molecular and atomic destabilising at a distance and a whole host of other things, just because it isn't physically feasible to move a Dyson Sphere in our reckoning, I'd say shows clearly that it's likely one more thing the C'tan and Necrons *can* do. I wonder what the BFG Stats are :eek:

As for it being a prison, I picked it up from a few bits in the Codex that the Outsider was 'beyond' this Galaxy, or decidedly seperate from it. Perhaps the Dyson Sphere 'inner surface' is more akin to a dimensional prison, containing massive portal technology effectively transporting an entire 'inner star system' into a specially created 'alternate' reality pocket, which contains a lone star in a complete void, only accessible through the Dyson Sphere...*that* could be a prison!

Maybe not though, I may have read it wrongly.

Xisor

EDIT: That last dimensional 'pocket' thing could mean that the sphere is a bit like a Faraday Cage...Gravitationally speaking, the surface of the cage is the same, there is no 'inside' so long as the cage is maintained, if the portals activate and put the star back in place the distribution of gravity would be reasserted across the dimensional 'rift'( :rolleyes: ) could collapse the Sphere, a bit like an insurance policy against the Outsider's escape...hmmm....

Talkie Toaster
22-06-2005, 20:36
Agreed, on almost everyones points. I haven't got any sources for this, but *IIRC* a dyson sphere is not physically possible in a conventional sense. A simple shell of any material we yet know of(reinforced by materials we know of) would exert a gravity field such that the inner curvature of a sphere of radius ~1AU could not support it's own weight. I don't recall what the effects of thickening the shell materials...
Well, considering it contains an entire star the radiation pressure on the shell would be pretty fierce, and when you take solar wind etc. into account it might help keep things within the realms of reality. Plus whatever artificial gravity field they were using to allow people to walk around the inside of the sphere might have some effect .

Xisor
22-06-2005, 20:41
Well, considering it contains an entire star the radiation pressure on the shell would be pretty fierce, and when you take solar wind etc. into account it might help keep things within the realms of reality. Plus whatever artificial gravity field they were using to allow people to walk around the inside of the sphere might have some effect .

Actually, on thinking about it now, it perhaps *could* be possible conventionally. I wonder what the effect of spinning the Sphere would have(thinking centripetal forces perhaps allowing for an equatorial 'gravity' field)? Would it be possible to spin it? It'd be one hell of a feat of mathematics, let alone engineering! A spinning Sphere may help though.

Xisor

Ouroboros
22-06-2005, 22:11
Judging by the sheer size of it I'd speculate that the object in question is, much like the eye of terror is a physical manifestation of mankind's evil, a manifestation of GW's corporate greed.











Oh yeah I said it:D

Xisor
22-06-2005, 22:57
Eldar Evil. The Eye of Terror is a manifestation of Eldar Evil. Other than that, thats probably accurate. Where the nightbringer gifted humanity with fear of death, the Outsider gifted humanity with accountants.

Xisor

Jal'knock
23-06-2005, 17:04
Actually its a representation of all Eldar emotions together. Evil is what resulted from it by the birth of Slaanesh.

icharus
23-06-2005, 22:48
I thank you all for your help and enjoyed the disscussion.

Damage,Inc.
24-06-2005, 00:39
Sort of like fending off a duck with popcorn.

Depends on how hard you throw it I guess...

Seriously though, if you feed a duck enough popcorn he will get full, slow down, and become easier prey. Perhaps there is a way for mortals to destroy the C'tan through their own arrogance?

Ironically enough, all the Imperium has to do to kill C'tan is to get a bunch of Nintendo Duck Hunt guns together...

Shas'o'Fior
24-06-2005, 06:43
Ouroboros , IMO, its just a giant FW model that GWs gonna sell of as a necron death star.....

twisted_mentat
24-06-2005, 07:55
Yes, there was a Star Trek TNG episode that featured a Dyson sphere, which is basicly whats there.

Though i cannot remmeber if an actual Scientist/engineer came up with the idea, or a Fictional one, and because this "dyson" is the only origonator of said sphere.

Moving a Star is more complex than just figuring out how to move what is basicly a Giant Nuclear reactor, but also how to move it without destroying the orbits of everything else in the galaxy, as the mass of a star exerts gravitational pull on every other star...so you move one, and everything goes crazy....

It could be both his fortress AND his prison....maybe the enemies of the C'Tan realized they couldn't destroy it, so insted they sealed the Outsider inside...

inside he waits..brooding, gathering strength, until he can be unleashed upon the galaxy once again...

arkbird
24-06-2005, 09:32
The Dyson sphere was originally porposed by Freedmon Dyson who stated that any culture which was signifacantly advanced enough could deconstruct their entire star system and using the materials construct a sphere around their star at 1 Au or the distance the earth is from the sun. The advantage to this is that the civilization would be able to harness every bit of energy from their sun and they would then be able to have the entire inner surface of the sphere to live on and so an almost limitless growth area. The only catch is that a culture would have to have a technology level of 3. To give you an idea of what that would entail. A level 1 culture would be able to harness the energy of their home planet with geo-thermal energy and the like. A level 2 culture would be able to travel between the stars. On this basis we are about a level 1/2 civilization. A further theory would say that a level 4 culture would be able to harness the black hole at the center of their galaxy and build a sphere around it but that's only a theory. If a culture is able to build a dyson sphere then they would be able to engineer a sphere which could handle the stresses and maintain the spheres the possision of the star at it's center. If anyone is interested, if we could convert the matter which makes up Jupiter into metal we could build a shell around the sun at one Au with a thickness of about 2 meters.