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Grimshawl
29-09-2006, 15:20
Aparently the Epic Chaos release is once again getting the shaft as Andy H at GamesDay was heard saying that only the Plastic Infantry sprue will be released for chaos this coming Feb, which by the way was an overdue pushed back release as they were supposed to be released in Aug.
His excuse was something lame about Loosing all the Molds for the metal minatures, a decidedly suspect, " I've lost my Homework " kinda excuse.

Damien 1427
29-09-2006, 16:11
Well, lets be honest. Specialist Games have long since gotten the shaft. I didn't even know they were releasing the old plastic Chaos sprues.

Still lamesauce, though.

ArtificerArmour
29-09-2006, 16:13
I'm sure if they could cater for every specialist games player they would.

Cerberus
29-09-2006, 17:10
Yeah. Their budget sucks simply because not enough people are playing (and buyng) specialist games to justify spending money on making new stuff for them. Guess we'll just have to wait until forgeworld decide to make an Epic Chaos range just caus they can and it'll look sweet. Then they can charge a stupid price for it and get enough profit to justify it!

Damien 1427
29-09-2006, 17:23
As long as we don't get a Forgeworld Deathwheel. Urgh. I tolerate the idea for the Skaven, but as Chaos War Machine on par with Knights and Stompers? It was lame.

Grimtuff
29-09-2006, 18:40
Yeah. Their budget sucks simply because not enough people are playing (and buyng) specialist games to justify spending money on making new stuff for them.


Oh, we're buying alright. Just not from GW, why buy direct when I can get an entire Epic army second hand off eBay for about 25-30?

orangesm
29-09-2006, 18:50
Which is part of the problem actually, GW is not seeing interest in what they have because we have to go on Ebay to get stuff, so GW does not make models, thus forcing us to go to Ebay for stuff. Horrible Horrible circle.

Grimshawl
29-09-2006, 19:01
Anyone who honestly thinks they can argue that Forgeworld can make a profit making epic minis but SGs cant make a profit making epic minis needs to do a little more thinking. And Yes I know ForgeWorld use Resin caste before anyone brings that up. Its the same exact customer base we are talking about here, I could give a flip about which piece of GW was actually making the minis, but they need to get their act together and stop squashing interest and enthusiasm for Epic. Cause right now the biggest obstacle in the way of Epic prospering and making them money is GW itself and their lousey methods of promoting and supporting their own games.

Persephone
29-09-2006, 20:14
Even the chaos sprues for infantry will be pretty good because we can convert a lot of the vehicles.

Gen_eV
29-09-2006, 23:02
Anyone who honestly thinks they can argue that Forgeworld can make a profit making epic minis but SGs cant make a profit making epic minis needs to do a little more thinking.

Well, if you look at the difference between the FW and GW minis, you tend to see a massive leap in quality with little increase in price - just compare the two BFG Tau collections, or the Imperial Titans.

Personally, I'd love to see FW taking on more of a Specialist Games Support mantle, they could relatively easily run off Necromunda Gangs/Bloodbowl teams in the same vein as the Elysians/DKoK. If they did that, I'm sure a lot of people would buy the minis just because they're pretty, and maybe build up to larger forces along the way.

Chaos and Evil
30-09-2006, 10:44
Some FW models are actually cheaper than the SG equivilents.

Grimtuff
30-09-2006, 21:24
Some FW models are actually cheaper than the SG equivilents.



*cough* Nightspinners *cough*

...and look a helluva lot nicer too.

ArtificerArmour
30-09-2006, 21:29
THe BFG tau as well.

I think specialist games should totally hand over to forgeworld, because the releases we get are utter gash. Redemptionists being number 1.

nealhunt
03-10-2006, 13:56
Yeah. Their budget sucks simply because not enough people are playing (and buyng) specialist games to justify spending money on making new stuff for them.

Not to pick on Cerberus specifically, but this and similar statements are oft repeated. They are only half true. EpicA sold 400% of projections when it was re-released. Specialist games are profitable. They just aren't as profitable as 40K and WFB and when your stock price is driven by overall profit margin there is great pressure to direct resources only to the most profitable lines.

SG stuff is there primarily as a marketing strategy offering the "experienced gamer" something a little different in order to keep them in the "GW Hobby." It either milks customers for more sales in a different game line or hopes to steer them to the more profitable games. Although couching it in more flattering terms, Jervis has said as much on several occasions.

I have no problem with that either morally or as a business strategy but it is obviously disappointing that my favorite game gets the short shrift.

Charax
03-10-2006, 16:41
*Is really glad he already has 90%+ of the vehicles his Epic force needs*

They don't have the moulds? Really? Ever thought about making new models? let's face it, the Epic Chaos models weren't that great anyway.

Plastic vehicles: GW keep mentioning their new 3D scanning and rapid prototyping machines. Are they seriously saying that not a single person at Head Office has a set of plastic chaos vehicles they can scan and reproduce? Hell, stick spikes on the Imperial ones.

Metal vehicles: Most chaos vehicles are Imperial crossovers anyway, the ones that aren't (the demon engines mostly) arent even IN the Black Legion list, and things like Defilers, Decimators and Doomwheels have never had epic-scale models anyway, so how can they lose the moulds?

Losing the moulds is a lame excuse, but with SG only releasing models bi-annually, and each of those being for 2 systems, a single system can only expect a release every 2 years (8 SG systems, although it's slightly less than that because I think Bo5A has stopped getting new stuff) there's only so far you can "push back" a release.

Epic is actually getting quite a bit of love (which I don't doubt it deserves, even though Inquisitor is the most profitable SG). Feel sorry for the Blood Bowl players.

Brother Othorio
04-10-2006, 13:32
They don't have the moulds? Really? Ever thought about making new models? let's face it, the Epic Chaos models weren't that great anyway.
Plastic vehicles: GW keep mentioning their new 3D scanning and rapid prototyping machines. Are they seriously saying that not a single person at Head Office has a set of plastic chaos vehicles they can scan and reproduce?


both of these require something that GW will not let Specialist Games have: MONEY, the latter would also probably require interrupting the production schedule for the infinitely more profitable 40k & WFB plastics, something GW almost certainly wouldnt do now that SG is going through its final death-throws (last i heard Andy Hall was now SG's ONLY employee?)

orangesm
04-10-2006, 19:33
Yet SG products will continue to be bought until GW runs out of them and then will be traded back and forth on Ebay. Then someone will do resin models of their old models to sell on Ebay and GW will sue because it is their IP. But wait they arent producing the models anymore they just own the rights, dang it. Guess we just have to convince FW to do it. And oh we can.

SG Community: Forgeworld you had demostrated an ability to produce excellent mininatures and even created whole ranges of minis for various races and armies, from the Elysian Drop Troops & Death Korps of Krieg to the Tau Epic Army and even your own game Aeronautica Imperialis. We the Specialist Games community would like to see some things for the following games [list specialist games here] and would gladly pay for it.

FW: Well we are already doing alot of what you are talking about like you have said. We will start looking into it.

Every time we buy something from FW list what you want to see you may get it!

firestorm40k
04-10-2006, 20:09
Oh, we're buying alright. Just not from GW, why buy direct when I can get an entire Epic army second hand off eBay for about 25-30?

Erm, not totally true. It depends on which army. I'm not just talking about the obvious rare, currebtly unproduced ones (Chaos/Tyranids).

Boxsets of currently on release armies (especially Imperial Guard & Orks) fetch pretty much the same as they do straight from GW on eBay.

But looking at the prices Epic Tyranids get on eBay at the moment, it is easy to see that there is quite a serious demand for the Tyranids to be available for Epic. Even I want to do an Epic 'Nid army!

If GW/SG could just focus on getting the core armies released for Epic (eg Tyranids & Chaos as well as Marines/IG/Orks/Eldar), then IMHO Epic would be more popular as more people would be able to buy an army to compliment the one they have in 40k/BFG/whatever, as well as just having more choice in general.

And anything that makes more people want to play Epic is fine by me :D

Grimshawl
04-10-2006, 20:32
Honestly I've held off for months and months on buying all my Chaos stuff off Ebay, I really wanted to buy off SGs to show my support and funnel money into the games/systems I like so GW could see money being made from Epic, but thats over, now that I know they have no intention of putting out the Chaos stuff I wanted I'll just buy it all second hand and F#%#! GW, I wont bother buying new off them anymore, waiting around on half promises or long put off releases. If Forge World does start producing Epic stuff I may buy off them but I'm not gonna play Specialist Games waiting games any more, its just too frustrating.

ArtificerArmour
04-10-2006, 20:36
I find it strange FW making daemonhunter figures for epic, whilst there are no current chaos figures for them to play against...

Shinnentai
04-10-2006, 21:04
I agree that the production of new Specialist Games models should be turned over to Forgeworld. Specialist Games sculpts have consistantly proved to be below par both in design and execution, whereas FW sculpts are some of the most interesting and detailed models being produced by Games Workshop (although they have the advantage of not just being the latest regurgitation of a model released 2-3 times before).

The only proviso I would make about FW taking over in such a way is to try to keep intact and improve the input of the gaming community in development of the games - as seen with Epic Armageddon.

BlackLegion
07-10-2006, 22:38
I prefer metal figures over resin/plastic ones. So i hope SG/GW will produce some more new metal models.

mark_logue
08-10-2006, 12:42
Been making a chaos army recently and not really found the unavailability of models from GW a hinderance. The Warmaster Chaos range fits in really well. A daemon blister can make 6 stands of daemons (fits nicely splitting each base of Warmaster over two bases of epic). They are taller yes but that makes sense since they are daemons and all. Then I have just used the imperial guard and space marine ranges for infantry and vehicles with a few conversions to get the right look. Added with a couple of second hand things it really looks the part.

I have found that heaps of people at gaming clubs have epic stuff sitting around that they may be willing to trade, sell or give away if you let them know there is a market. I have gotten large collections of stuff very cheaply second hand.

Epic is my favourite game and I have definitely seen a bit of a resurgence in popularity in Australia due to people painting up cool armies and sharing them on local forums and playing at clubs and getting other people involved and letting them have a go.

If GW doesn't hold any tournaments or anything then the game can be played with games from any manufacturer so as long as people have copies of the rules my favourite game wont dye (especially not at my house cause I have a couple of armies).

BlackLegion
08-10-2006, 13:52
Have you pictures of your converted imperial vehicles? :)

Acolyte of Bli'l'ab
09-10-2006, 02:20
Forge World should definitly take over EPIC IMO. i'd love to see Epic Chaos done by them, especially the titans... and of course I want them to do the necs too :P

fracas
09-10-2006, 17:16
i too prefer metal models but if the Specialists do not have the resources to keep going, then better Forgeworld than no one

The Dark One
09-10-2006, 17:40
i wouldn't mind forge world doing epic tanks, but infantry are a bit britall in plastic i dare not think of resin ones (the reason i won't be doing a epic tau army).

i am happy that they will be re-releasing chaos, and hopefully tyranids will be next

Shinnentai
10-10-2006, 00:56
Yeah that's true enough - although I've never had difficulty with plastic infantry, the Tau are pretty fragile. I do much prefer Forgeworld Epic vehicles since they're like exact scaled down versions of the 40k models, whereas the SG models tend to be a little less accurate.

Acolyte of Bli'l'ab
10-10-2006, 19:39
I'd love Forge World to take over doing Epic completely personally. The Tau and Daemonhunters were some of the finest infantry in 6mm iv ever seen and I could only imagine what they'd do with necrons and chaos. Specialist Games dont seem to release miniatures anymore either, allthough I have no idea..perhaps someone could enlighten me ?