View Full Version : Epic force sizes

19-11-2006, 14:52
I've recently obtained the new Apic: Armageddon rulebook and I have to say I am impressed.

I was looking at the points cost for the different uints, though, and I was wondering what points games those Epic players out there normally used?

With Titans being 850 points for a Warlord, and a tank company being 600, you must have to play BIG if you want a battleforce of any real size?

19-11-2006, 15:27
i think 2.7-3k

Blagrot Squigbreff
19-11-2006, 15:48
Yeah 2700 allows the use of the biggest Titans in Tourny lists and 3000 gives players a bit more freedom, my group likes 4000 but we also think 2500 is a normal warhammer games and 1850 is a standard 40K game. There's a note in the rulebook somewhere stating that the lists are designed for 2000 to 5000 point games.

Colonial Rifle
20-11-2006, 02:28
2700 is the standard tournament level. If you are learning, I would strongly suggest starting at about 1500pts, without the flyers rule and maybe only 2 or 3 superheavies. The rules are very fluid once you get the hang of them, but can be a lot to take in when you start out (I still haven't used the flyers!).

20-11-2006, 03:22
For us here, the 3000 is the size of tournaments. I feel that it's silly to play non rounded 2700.

That said we also play 4000 point games from time to time as it allows slightly larger battles. Also with new players I've played 2000 and 2500 points (usually without aircraft rules in first games) as that makes the games a little easier to handle.

20-11-2006, 07:53
3000 seems to be the tournament norm in UK and the rest of Europe while in the US it is 2700.
We generally play 5000/6000 for a good large 2-3 hour game and 12000 on bank holidays

20-11-2006, 09:36
Just to echo what's been said, 2,700 or 3,000 is the standard Tournament size. It says in the rule book that anything up to 5,000 can be accomodated by the army lists, anything larger than that apparently benefits certain armies over others, which I think I can understand.

If you're thinking of taking a Warlord for a competitive Tournament list of 2,700-3,000 points, my advice is to leave it for larger games (i.e. 3,000+). In a 3,000 point game the 850 points of Warlord take up a huge wedge of points, and as a result you often have less formations than your opponent - which can actually put you at a disadvantage, especially if you're playing Space Marines. I know, because I've done this, and finished rock-bottom at the tournament I took it to :(

What army are you thinking of playing? IG are a good all-round army, lots of fire-power and troops to absorb enemy fire; Orks allow you to get stuck in, and like IG you can have lots of troops to absorb fire; Marines you have to use very, very carefully, and need some decent air-support.

Hope this helps! :cool:

20-11-2006, 14:29
The US most commonly has 2700 points while UK/Europe tends towards 3000 but there is considerable latitude all around. 2700 was the point total for the first Epic tournament because that allowed a Warlord or Great Gargant but only at the expense of having no aircraft. The idea was to make it a difficult strategic decision. The 2700 point total just sort of stuck.

Most people tend to find that 2500-4500 the best expereince for the GT (General Tournament) scenario, but fun games can be had at many levels. You can find battlereports from from Chroma when he is doing regular playtesting at 2000-2500 points so they can crank through 2-3 games in a night. You'll also find batreps of 10k+.

As noted, you can get into some funky situations if you are much outside of the point range. The GT game requires taking territory so armies that have trouble with that at lower point levels can produce a coherent battle line at higher point densities, partially negating a weakness and conversely, a horde army can end up getting in its own way, adding a weakness no normally present.

The Ape
20-11-2006, 16:35
Marines are a tough army to learn with - certainly not a beginners army. Marines are all about concentrating your (small) force against a single section of your opponents army and smashing it. If you get into a stand-up fight you will likely lose.

Titan-wise, in 3k games I tend to run with two warhounds simply because they carry a fair amount of firepower and are mobile enough to move with the rest of the army. Smokephoenix runs with a Reaver titan.

The Warlord simply isnt value for points in a 3k army - its too slow and too easily isolated.

Having said that, playing a high points game is great - especially if you field lots of titans :)

20-11-2006, 18:51
I had been considering the Imperial Guard, probably of around 4k points total.

Could anyone recommend a good starting block for the army?

Acolyte of Bli'l'ab
20-11-2006, 19:12
I have 10,000 points of marines. Epic is called Epic for a reason :D

Blagrot Squigbreff
20-11-2006, 19:13
The best starting place for any army is the standard infantry, in the case of Guard you may want mechanised infantry - they're more expensive but more mobile with more firepower. Leman Russes are also effective but don't go over the top, they cost quite a lot of points.

One very important detail in Epic is the number of formations most people say 3-4 per thousand points which can be hard to reach with guard as only the support formations and basic infantry cost 250 points or less.

You will likely want a Regimental HQ for the Supreme Commander, it's also a mech inf company so an inf company(foot) , some Russes and maybe some artillery and you're pushing 2000 points (more if you use a full artillery company) with only 4 choices, if you only use an artillery battery you can get a couple of cheap support formations to fill out the list (stormtroopers can be very effective).

Feel free to ask after anything else, it's always good to see new E:A players:) .

The Ape
20-11-2006, 19:34
Stormtroopers with Valkyries are ace.

The Forge World Valkyries are really nice as well.

I find Vultures are more effective than an artillery battery - they have comparable firepower but are far more maneuvrable. One of these days however, I'm going to take a couple of full artillery batterys with nothing but manticores - they may not last long but it will be fun to watch...

20-11-2006, 21:02
I like to think of building my epic armies with various parts with particular goal in mind. In 3000 points I will need to defend ground, take ground, and engage the enemy.

Breaking their Spirit objective can be very difficult to achieve. They are expensive formations for a reason and Titans a lot of the time. Imperial Guard actually have some of the best solutions to this - the Super Heavy Tanks, the Shadowsword.

The objectives that can be achieved most readily are Defend the Flag, Blitzkrieg, and Take & Hold. So I like to answer how my army will achieve just those things first.

22-11-2006, 14:34
I had been considering the Imperial Guard, probably of around 4k points total.

Could anyone recommend a good starting block for the army?

I'm not an IG-head, but there are a few things that are seen in virtually every army:

Reg HQ
Russ Company
Arty Battery (-ies) - usually Manticores
Shadowswords and/or Deathstrikes
Hydras (usually attached to other formations)

Assuming a Shadowsword company, that's well over 2000 points already.

Doing a search or soliciting opinions on Tactical Command or the SG boards will turn up much more detailed discussion and suggestions.

The Ape
22-11-2006, 14:45
Re: shadowswords - take them individually not as a company. Slightly more expensive (50pts i think) but makes them more tactically effective.