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CELS
20-11-2006, 20:07
I'm not sure if I've asked this before, since it's a long time since I decided to buy my Epic army (and I only recently did it), but... I have always wanted to field an airborne army of Stormtroopers, with Valkyrie craft flying in between ruins of Imperial cities, unloading their cargo on roof tops and annihilating their enemies.

So I ended up with this army, and I'm wondering if it will work at all. I hear that one of the main strengths of the IG army is that it can soak up a lot of fire, but now I've gone and gotten rid of all the cannon fodder.

2 x Steel Legion tank company with Hydra upgrade
1 x Sentinel squadron
2 x Stormtrooper platoon in Valkyrie carriers
1 x Vulture squadron
2 x Warhound Titan

Will this army work? It looks awfully vulnerable, but I just can't abandon my dream of airborne stormtroopers kicking ass and taking names...

orangesm
20-11-2006, 20:46
Big problem I see is that the army has nothing to hold ground with other than the Tank Companies. Is this your plan?

Also remember that the big way of winning games is claiming the various objectives, Blitzkrieg and Take & Hold are by far the most important to achieve and can be achieved together, followed by Defend the Flag. This means that you have denied your opponent the first two and gained the last.

You can achieve this with your list, but then you will be spread thin indeed.

What is your overall plan with the army?

Stormtroopers are to grab the Blitz and the nearest Take & Hold objectives in turn 2 or 3? This means you will have to hold onto your side of the table using your Tank Companies, Warhounds, and Sentinels.

Against an Ork army you may not have enough on the table and some of their formations will be able to grab your Blitz and a Take & Hold without being spread thin.

Your Stormtroopers & Vultures are your strike component.
To defend you will probably want to have a little more variety and numbers - I may would probably drop one of the Tank Companies - buy two infantry companies with a hydra in each. You will have saved 100 points and could put this towards either more infantry or fire support for one of those companies. To continue to give you some more striking power and the ability to adapt, dropping the Sentinels & Hydra from one of the Infantry, gives you the points to get a Mech Inf Company.

Now you have 2 strike forces each 1000 points in stength. 1 is your airborne assault system the other is a mobile tank force with some supporting infantry. This leaves you with a strengthened Infantry Company (Hydra & Fire Support 400 pts), Sentinels, and the Warhounds defending your objectives from the enemy attack.

CyberShadow
21-11-2006, 10:44
I agree that a good opponent will stretch your battleline too thin. You will need to take a number of objectives, which will force you to split your force along a couple of lines. With no artillery, these units are likely to become isolted from each other and picked off.

Also, your lack of infantry may lead to you getting hurt in any ambushes and firefights/close combats which jump on you.

If I was your opponent, I would seperate out the objectives as much as possible, and then jump on one of your tank companies to neutralise it quickly, probably then turning to the Warhounds.

If I could do that, you would not have much left to counter attack with.

CELS
21-11-2006, 11:53
Thanks for your comments!

Ah yes, I forgot to mention that I've never played this game yet. No one seems to play it around here, so I won't be able to try it before I actually receive my order from GW. So this army wasn't built on a tactical plan as much as an idea in my head of what would be really cool :D I mean, what is Epic, if not a chance to live out your 40k fantasies?

So I was prepared that this army wouldn't really be a 'power gamer' army, since it's so specialised, but I just need to know if it will work in friendly games, or if it will be like showing up for a 40k game with an army that doesn't have anti-tank weaponry.

I can definitely understand that I risk getting spread out too thinly, but can't that easily be avoided thanks to this army's presumedly great mobility? I.e. can't I just out-flank my opponent, or use a spear-head tactic? Or would that not be very effective in Epic scenarios?

I'm hoping to avoid having infantry that isn't mechanised (i.e. mounted in either Chimeras or Valkyries), as that's really the whole 'concept' for my army. Is this unrealistic, will it make me too vulnerable? I'm also hoping that the mobile Vultures will make up for a lack of artillery.

My opponent will be the Tau in the forseeable future, by the way.

Bombot
21-11-2006, 12:25
I’d have more infantry (probably an HQ) if I were to change the list but if this is what you’ve bought then I’d play it like this:

What I’d do is stick one of your target objects near where your opponent puts the Blitzkreig objective. Those are your target objectives. Then you should aim to destroy your opponent’s Break Their Spirit objective. If you can do that and avoid having yours destroyed, then it doesn’t matter if your opponent takes objectives in your half of the table. It's not a foolproof plan, but it is a plan.

The Ape
21-11-2006, 13:14
Is that a 3k list?

Vultures are a good alternative to artillery - it's what i go with.

You definately need more infantry - drop a tank company and get either a mech company or a Regimental HQ.

Sentinels are good because they are quick, can capture Blitzrieg objective in the last turn, and they are often overlooked by opponents.

Whilst I'm a big fan of Stormtroopers in Valkyries, two units may be too much. Alternatively, if you really want the whole airborne theme, drop BOTH tank companies and get more mechanised infantry & some more vultures.

Disclaimer: I dont have the points values in front of me so I cant guarantee any of the suggestions will be viable.

CyberShadow
21-11-2006, 15:01
My opponent will be the Tau in the forseeable future, by the way.

In that case, can I take this opportunity to compliment your opponent on his excellent taste in Epic forces (I am the Tau Army Champion!). :D

Your list does seem to have the 'cool toys', and there is nothing wrong with that at all. There are not many Epic lists that are actually 'unwinable', so you should take what looks good up to a certain point. I would be worried that you would have real trouble up against a 'horde' army, but there isnt much chance of that against the Tau (too expensive, for one thing!). Apart from this, I dont think that you will necessarily set up with this force knowing right away that you dont have a chance. It would probably do quite well against a Titan/AMTL force.

If you dont want more infantry, I would probably drop one Valk/Stormtrooper formation and see if you can scrape together enough points for some Baneblades - they fill the 'cool model' requirement, have good anti-infantry firepower and will add a further distraction from your Warhounds.

The Ape
21-11-2006, 16:05
A Shadowsword would help on the anti-titan side of things. I agree that Baneblades are cool, but Shadowswords scare the crap out of opponents.

Hena
21-11-2006, 16:23
I'd say that drop one company of tanks and add regimental HQ. You will quickly realise why that reroll on activation is a very useful. Also there is no CC units to protect those tanks, so you need to careful on protecting them. Air assault will be nasty against them unfortunately.

But on the other hand ... Take that army and play with it. I've seen IG lists without supreme commander before. If the you feel that this is your army then learn to use it and win with it :D.

Bombot
21-11-2006, 18:02
I do like the Vulture / Shadowsword combo - strip a titan's shields with the Vultures then work on the hull with the Shadowsword.

CELS
21-11-2006, 20:23
Well... I think that I'll go with the suggestion of replacing one of the tank companies with a mechanised infantry company (Steel legion regimental HQ). It won't be as expensive in terms of money, since I already have an infantry company that I'm not using. And probably give the mechanised infantry some hydra support, since I know that my Tau opponent will have a squadron of fighters and bombers. I've never seen the rules for Tau Epic units, but I'm betting they pack as much firepower as their 40k counterparts.

And if that Manta is causing too much trouble, I guess I'll replace one of the Warhounds with something that can take it out. What would be best for shooting down a Manta? Thunderbolt Fighters?

Also, I'm curious why Cybershadow thought I'd do well against a titan force (not sure what AMTL means), but others suggested that I'd get a Shadowsword...

Finally, I'm hoping more of you could answer the most important question in this thread; Given that I've already bought the army presented in the opening post, will this work against a Tau opponent? Or will I get my ass handed to me on a grav-plate?



Oh, and yes this is 3000 points.

Bombot
21-11-2006, 20:41
Well, two tank companies gives you a lot of anti-tank firepower, but with one tank company and a Shadowsword, you’ve still got plenty of firepower to hit titans (especially with the Vultures), but you’ve saved yourself a bunch of points.

I’ve not played against Tau, but I think anything can hit the Manta. It’s a ’support craft’ rather than a true flyer.

malika
21-11-2006, 20:43
AMTL means Adeptus Mechanicus Titan Legions if I remember correctly. Im curious how you will end up with this army CELS...show us pictures eventually!

Hena
22-11-2006, 03:28
Your best asset against manta is probably that Leman Russ company. However it's wickedly tough to drop so it'll not be easy. Thunderbolts aren't much help against it, but will help against possible AX-1-0. And protect the weaker parts from barracudas anyway. I quess against the Tau the important thing is the use of stormtroopers and valkyries. Those are good in assaults while Tau isn't that good in it. So get those to kill Tau Hammerhead Cadres or similar and it'll be good.

I don't see immediately why that list wouldn't win, but I'm quessing that broadsides will hurt when they get to fire as do the hammerheads. Tau has nasty assortment of weaponry so ... You can find the latest list in SG sites vault.

orangesm
22-11-2006, 13:17
If you are interested in doing a Drop Trooper Army (and thus a very different play style from the Steel Legion List you are currently using) check it out here

Elysian Drop Troop Army List (http://www.tacticalwargames.net/cgi-bin/forum/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=74;t=6801;hl=drop+troop)

nealhunt
22-11-2006, 14:50
I think the initial army will work fine but I agree that I would switch out one Russ company for the Reg HQ.

The key to winning with it will be turtling up and driving forward. Your primary tactic is a hammer. Keep the armor in a tight group and use the Stormtroopers and other fast stuff to fend off potential assault threats (a significant weakness of tank companies) and pick off anything the enemy overextends. Place objectives close together so your tight mob can drive forward and take them. Use that fast stuff to contest/capture objectives in the late game, preventing your opponent from simply running around your flank to take objectives in your backfield.

You might try a denied flank with the Warhound(s) and Sentinels on the weak flank, Russ in the middle and the Reg HQ on the strong flank (because it's faster and can react better than the Russ). Fast units are reserves to deploy as needed. Overall, though, I think the hammer approach is better.

Tau will be tricky. You'll have a waiting game and it will likely be all about position and area denial. They will want to entice you into vulnerable positions. You will want to keep their spotters and pop-up units vulnerable. Immediate reaction to Markerlights will be necessary from your fast stuff, while being careful not to overextend. Overwatch may be your friend, much as it is against Eldar.

Like I posted in the other thread about building an IG force, there are die-hard IG fans that can give much more detailed advice than I can on both the SG boards and Tactical Command. Even if you don't want to register you can do a topic search and turn up good discussion and advice.

CELS
22-11-2006, 21:25
Alright, thanks for your help, everyone. I'll let you know how this baby turns out in december. I've found out that my opponent doesn't have a manta, but does have two tank 'cadres', so it should be interesting. I'm hoping that my leman russ companies will do well against those, while my stormtroopers take care of his few fire warriors in close combat.

Anyway, I'll post more in december, when I've given this a shot.