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lord_Astellan
13-12-2006, 04:58
:chrome: :skull: Well i was just working on my chaos army ( Fallen dark angel themed chaos ) and trying find do something, and it hit me Why has there never been ( to my knowlage ) an assasin that went over to the dark side, after all thay are so close to chaos to begin with ?:skull: :chrome:

Quin 242
13-12-2006, 05:16
who says there haven't?
But the lords of terra would keep that sort of thing under wraps

Lord of ???
13-12-2006, 07:00
I'm pretty those that have succumbed to the lure of the Dark Gods have all been Assassinated by those following up.

Iceheart2112
13-12-2006, 07:06
They're probably screened and trained in anti-chaos ways just as much as the Grey Knights (not in the same ways, perhaps, but just as strenuosly).

zendral
13-12-2006, 08:22
Im sure fluff-wise its a possibility. There is no fluff (to my knowledge) that has stated that the assassins are as pure as grey knights and have never fallen to chaos. Rule-wise you can try your best to represent a model but i doubt there wil be rules for them. It falls under that list of: Why isn't there chaos whirlwinds, storm bolters, ball predators, scouts, razorbacks, crusaders, land speeders, demolishers, assault cannons, etc. It's nothing that big to represent in a codex. If there are chaos assassins, they are probably rare as ****.

The best thing I can think of for a chaos assassin, is a chaos lord or lt. with a daemon weapon....like the kai gun.

Onisuzume
13-12-2006, 09:18
Well, scrap the eversor as possible candidate. ^^
The chance of one of those being traitor is nihil.

The other assassins are far more likely candidates.

Scythe
13-12-2006, 16:18
Assassins are completely brain washed and indoctrinated. They are just emotionless killing machines; I can't see such individuals fall for Chaos, as Chaos is all about emotion in the end.

Culexus is impossible; he has no warp presence, no soul, so nothing that can be corrupted in the first place. Eversor is also out of the question as mentioned. I personally can't see Calidus or Vindicares fall either, but then, if it floats your boat. Your best bet would be a non officio assassinorum assassin. Like a very potent death cult assassin or something, as they are not brain washed / indoctrinated by the Imperium in all cases.

MasterModakai
13-12-2006, 16:52
In the Thorian Sourcebook for Inquisitor there is Asaid Virenus. She was trained in the Callidus school and went rougue. According to her background, she is a freelancer and has worked for aliens and subversive cults.

god octo
13-12-2006, 16:55
in the witch hunter codex it states that there are death cult assins that worship khorne and donate the skulls they take to him, but also that tyhere are very fanatic death cults that support the imperium.

EVIL INC
13-12-2006, 17:39
An assassin has to be very organized and regimented. To be sure that although this very thing garuentees that chaos assassins are few, obviously, there are still some about.
Looking at the leaders of chaos and how well they "get along", you can bet that they are too busy killing off one another and thier own leaders to have time for imperials.
Any that do go after imperials are likely counter assassinated and the thing kept under wraps or even better yet, why kill an imperial leader when it is far better to slip them warpstone dust to convert them or cause them to go rogue. That way you either gain an ally or cause more long term damage.

If you really wish to have an army dedicated to the dark gods that has assassins, just use one of those imperial ones who use them and make it rogue. That is a comman enough occurance to be plausible and you can still shout "DOWN WITH THE CORPSE KING!!!" every time they kill someone.

Spook101
13-12-2006, 17:44
True that not very many (that we know about) have been forced or tricked over to chaos. But why has chaos not tried to train their own?

Minos Engele
13-12-2006, 18:02
True that not very many (that we know about) have been forced or tricked over to chaos. But why has chaos not tried to train their own?

Why use surgical strike tools when you have enormous sledgehammers (cultists/mutants/traitors) and no reason to be secretive. On top of that, I'm sure some Lieutenants can be considered to be assassins. They don't get the same wargear but are certainly as skilled, if not more so.

lord_Astellan
13-12-2006, 19:50
ok so in Necromunda there are the Spyrer gangs witch are basicly the same as assasin cults so why dont thay form a lesser assasin cult, wouldent chaos make use of all things in any hive thay capture

spacemonkey
13-12-2006, 20:15
in the Witch Hunter codex it states that there are death cult assins that worship khorne and donate the skulls they take to him, but also that there are very fanatic death cults that support the imperium.

I think it would go along with the fluff for death cult assassins to be available to a chaos army, but defections (at least successful ones) by an offico assassorium agent would be so rare as not to warrant being available on the battlefield.

Scythe
14-12-2006, 10:09
True that not very many (that we know about) have been forced or tricked over to chaos. But why has chaos not tried to train their own?

They probably do... though wether they have the equipment, patience and skill to train assasins to officio standards is doubtfull, although you could probably come up with an explanation.

I think that in general though, Chaos is a little too disorganised to make widespread use of assasins like the Imperium does.

Slaaneshi Slave
14-12-2006, 12:35
Custodian: Operative 495 to Base. Over.
Base: This is Base, go ahead Operative 495. Over.
Custodian: The package has gone rogue, I repeat, the package has gone rogue. Over.
Base: Copy your last Operative 495. Detinating the packages Brain Stem Explosive. Over.
Custodian: The package is down, good work Base. Returning to you now. Out.

Maus
14-12-2006, 12:52
Assassin Bob: My dark master, I have an explosive in my neck
Mr. Khorne: Not any longer mate, you're good to go!

MaxORK
14-12-2006, 13:01
It is quite funny how certain people have a be all end all point of view on this subject! Especially as A it is fiction and B it has never been stated otherwise!

Also I believe in Faith & Fire the Grand bad guy has an assasin try and kill the medic in the library! He was an assasin working for the wrong side! Had a nasty gun and he was invisable! So guess all the nay sayers are wrong!

Latro_
14-12-2006, 17:41
Doubt an assassin would fall to chaos, however a from birth trainned chaos assassin would be a very cool idea!

e.g. like the defiler, a totally chaos concept.

You could use a lord with infiltrate and give it gifts etc represented in cool conversions.

Lieutenant Frederic Henry
14-12-2006, 17:53
It is quite funny how certain people have a be all end all point of view on this subject! Especially as A it is fiction and B it has never been stated otherwise!

Also I believe in Faith & Fire the Grand bad guy has an assasin try and kill the medic in the library! He was an assasin working for the wrong side! Had a nasty gun and he was invisable! So guess all the nay sayers are wrong!

Yes, sir. It is rather funny how " certain people have a be all end all point of view on this subject!" However, by that logic, your statement is also rather hilarious, albeit in a rather ironic, loggically-twisted sort of way.

Back on point, codex unit choices (such as assassins) represent a readily available pool of troop type X that is readily available to all forces that represent that army, and are able to be deployed to battlefields all across the galaxy. For example, all Space Marine chapters maintain a motor pool of Rhino APC's; hence, the Codex Space Marine army list has a unit choice for Rhino APC's, since they are readily available to every single Imperial Space Marine army, and in great numbers.

Imperial Assassins are represented by a codex unit choice since the Imperium has the department of Officio Assassinorum, which is required to train a certain number of individual assassins to be readily available at the request of individual inquisitors, to be deployed on battlefields all across the galaxy. I'm making sense here, right?

Conversely, given the individual nature of assassins, it is unlikely that enough of them will have defected en masse to chaos, to provide any number of individual chaos lords with a readily available pool of assassins. Surely, fluff-wise, a few assassins have gone rogue over the course of time, and sided with chaos; but not enough of them to warrant an army list choice, making them avaiable to every single chaos army. Conversely, since the Imperium recruits and trains a large amount of assassins on a yearly basis, they have a readily available pool of them, such that should any inquisitor require one of them, that there are plenty ready to be deployed in battle with him.

That being said, if you really want an assassin in your chaos force, choose a Radical Inquisitor, give him some Radical Chaosy stuff (don't have the codex with me, but you get what I mean), and attatch an assassin to his FOC. Then you can legally use them as allies, and fluff-wise it makes sense: a Radical Inquisitor probed too deeply into the mysteries of Chaos, got seduced by it, and now fights alongside his erstwhile foes. His loyal bodyguard (the assassin) has decided to follow their master into damnation. Quick and easy, and it gets you your assassin, while making you take an entire extra FOC so you pay adequately for this unit which would not otherwise be available to you.
Cheers.

Slaaneshi Slave
14-12-2006, 18:35
Also I believe in Faith & Fire the Grand bad guy has an assasin try and kill the medic in the library! He was an assasin working for the wrong side! Had a nasty gun and he was invisable! So guess all the nay sayers are wrong!

Quite true! He did have an assassin working for him, he had several in fact. There are two things to consider though.

A. None of them were Imperial Assassins from the temples.
B. The bad guy wasn't a Chaos worhipper. Heretic, yes, Daemon woshipper? No.

So what was your point again?

monkey child
14-12-2006, 19:29
I have no problem believing that the odd one could be subverted by the dark gods. I mean imagine a callidus deep under cover for months, possibly even years, why couldn`t they be gradually manipulated by the more subtle gods. Or in a more direct approach Couldn`t an assasin conceivably be captured and brain washed into a very useful tool for overthrowing governments or even eliminating who ever sent them in the first place.

Mobiboros
14-12-2006, 19:32
That being said, if you really want an assassin in your chaos force, choose a Radical Inquisitor, give him some Radical Chaosy stuff (don't have the codex with me, but you get what I mean), and attatch an assassin to his FOC. Then you can legally use them as allies, .

Wait, you can legally take Inquisitors with a Chaos army? I don't have the Daemonhunters Codex on-hand but is that right? You're allowed to use daemonhunter forces as allies in a Chaos Space Marine army? I know the Witchhunters book specifies who can take Witchhunter allies (Chaos is not one of them).

Slaaneshi Slave
14-12-2006, 19:46
He is saying take them as a seperate force org chart, in friendly games. In a tournament it wouldn't be allowed of course.

Lieutenant Frederic Henry
14-12-2006, 21:18
Quite, right, O Enslaved One. In tournaments it's strictly prohibited, but it's a fair agreement for friendly games. You have to take the same amount of crap loyalists do to get an assassin (i.e. take an inquisitor and retinue etc.), to keep the advantage of the assassin (which you shouldn't have access to at all) fair in the same way IG or SM have to take them.
Cheers.

Scythe
15-12-2006, 10:04
Assassin Bob: My dark master, I have an explosive in my neck
Mr. Khorne: Not any longer mate, you're good to go!

Bob probably wouldn't even know about the explosive until it blows...;)

Spook101
15-12-2006, 18:00
Also I believe in Faith & Fire the Grand bad guy has an assasin try and kill the medic in the library! He was an assasin working for the wrong side! Had a nasty gun and he was invisable! So guess all the nay sayers are wrong!


Quite true! He did have an assassin working for him, he had several in fact. There are two things to consider though.

A. None of them were Imperial Assassins from the temples.
B. The bad guy wasn't a Chaos worhipper. Heretic, yes, Daemon woshipper? No.

So what was your point again?

If i remember correctly, in one of the Gaunts Ghosts novels (i cant remember which one) The enemy employed several assasins to kill the Sabantine reborn.
One was a sniper that got his own head shot off by an imperial sniper.
(note: this is the book that Soric gets sent to the black ships, if anyone wants to remind me the name of this book.)

EVIL INC
15-12-2006, 18:40
An assassin does not have to be a daemon worshiper or train in a temple to kill for chaos.
Then again, assassins working for chaos do not have to go through the assassin cult training. they can get the same benifits with a few well chosen gifts and mutations as well as centures or millennia of training.
However, most chaos assassins are to busy with infighting to ever see an actual battlefield role and even if they do, it is (as has already been stated) as the role of a lt or aspiring champ and imperial records squash all mention of them for purposes of morale.

Lieutenant Frederic Henry
15-12-2006, 19:25
Agreed, Evil. 40k is such a huge universe that any number of different cases and probability's are not only possible, but also statistically likely to have happened. I mean, if it's a 1 in a billion chance, and you have thousands of billions of people in the galaxy, then anything is possible! That being said, it doesn't happen frequently enough to be a codex unit selection. :-D
Cheers.

Achilles
15-12-2006, 20:32
that said, it could be a fantastic model, the Chaos Assasin.

the Idea for using deamonhunters to represent a chaos list is actually quite good. with deamonhosts, 3 minor assasins (accolytes), a mayor assasin (Master), and inducted guards as cultists... not a bad idea. and tournament legal... (it would be one of the biggest Flip-Over Count As though)