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Kelpi
22-12-2006, 03:32
So I'm starting Warhammer and for the life of me I cant decide on an army. I am a 40k veteran and love my Orks but I dont want to do *yet* another Ork/Orc army. If I buy Warhammer Orcs I will end up converting them to 40k and never have an army.

So I would like a Warhammer army with the same *feel* as 40k Orks but not Orcs. A wide variety of units, sort of (but not too much) underdog-ish lots of different play styles and models etc.

I think I have it narrowed down to: Skaven, The Empire and maybe High Elves but Im very open to suggestions. For philosophical reasons I'm not too keen on Dwarves, Chaos, Brettonia and of course Orcs.

What do you think?

GrandReaper
22-12-2006, 03:49
Can't get any more "Ork, but not Ork" than Beastmen. For versatility they're at the tops ( Ambushing beasts, not ambushings, heavy magic, little magic, Minotaur army, Shagoth (monster) general, etc ). You get the versatile, unique and utterly disorderly beast herds ( with more than a little ork/gobbo style interaction ). Lots of options with chariots, bestigors, warhounds, centigors, and nearly the 40mm versatility of Ogre Kingdoms, not to mention the monsters. Finally, you have access to the Chaos army list as well should you get bored and want something different ( even just to have a daemon prince lead your beasts ).

I realize it is chaos ( philisophical problem, if I'm not mistaken ). However, beasts are more of a force of nature than an orderly (you know what I mean) aspect of Chaos. Very orky, very fun, and more than capable of being the underdog (leadership 6-8 for the army anyone).

Plus, IMO the beast herd models are some of the best I've ever seen. I also like the old Bestigors. I don't play beasts myself ( I have a few, but the lizzies and ogres keep monopolizing my time ), but they seem right up your alley ( spoken as a fellow Ork - with a 'k' ).

Kelpi
22-12-2006, 04:05
Hmm, Beastmen, I didnt even think of them! They might be a winner, what are they like in terms of support from GW? Do they have a proper army book and everything? What about models, mostly metal/plastic how much am I looking to spend?

In terms of philosophical reasons for not liking Chaos etc, its just that the fluff etc doesn't do it for me. Same can be said for Dwarves.

Kedlav
22-12-2006, 06:15
Beastmen are a pretty solid army and Beasts of Chaos(their book) is decent. They're not overpowered like some(SAD, WE, Brets), but not weak like OK.

I play Empire and enjoy the versatility and unit selections. Empire revolves around tictacs(if you're good) and steam tanks(if you suck). Average guys using detachments can break a number of armies, though against the experienced player, it becomes even more fun trying to get detachments to work right.

Inkosi
22-12-2006, 07:00
You love hordes??

You might love skaven.

Possibly the only army that can outnumber a O&G army.

Cheers.

Tutore
22-12-2006, 07:24
I think you should choose skaven, which I don´t love much but are similar in concept to a WH40K ork army. Lot of shooting, lot of cannon fodder (sacrifice me!) and also lot of melee.

Kelpi
22-12-2006, 09:30
I like the arcane techno-magical aspect of Skaven but Im not sure if the mega horde is me. I'm liking the look of Beastmen but I notice there are no ranged units (or are there?). How does this effect them?

Forgive me for the newbie-esque questions, but I notice that its possible to take Dogs of War as long as I have an appropriate general. Is this something I would want to do?

Say for example convert up some beastly bowmen and have them count as a Dogs of War special choice. Is that a done thing? Dogs of War confuse me a little.

Sherlocko
22-12-2006, 09:39
You won´t need missile fire in a beast army because it is all about striking fast and the herds can screen most of your army anyway. Plus, with some magic(if you go that route) or some flyers(I convert furies from gors with wings) you can neutralise enemy shooting fast.

sigur
22-12-2006, 10:46
I'd also say that you should go for Beastmen. It's not only the reputation of Skaven to smell like cheese (what a glorious pun! skaven -> cheese, geddit?:rolleyes: ), Beastmen also have a very wide range of different combat units (even more if you add in the Hordes of Chaos choices), they have trolls, giants, very nice special rules and fluff. Maybe you won't learn the finer points of maneuvering as fast as with other armies (because of the mainstray of Beastmen armies being skirmishers) but Beastmen surely are a different army and in many areas they are underrepresented.

Personally, I love the brutish, primitive feel those creatures have. Sure, they lack missile units but apart from that, they have every other type of unit. If you need further information about Beastmen, I'd suggest visiting The Herdstone (http://s2.invisionfree.com/herdstone).

Tutore
22-12-2006, 10:49
If you like shooting go elves, but since you played orks I´m not sure you´ll like the good ones. Perhaps dark elves? I must say it´s one of the most difficult armies of WHB. Difficult to use, I mean.

Grunge
22-12-2006, 11:57
Beastmen has the largest range of miniatures ( beasts and chaos guys) and the largest variety (they even had to divide it on two books).

Kelpi
22-12-2006, 21:11
Thanks for all the comments everyone. I am liking Beastmen more and more. I dont think the lack of non-shooty units is too much of an issue, Im just used to the shootyness of 40k.

Hywel
22-12-2006, 23:36
With regards to your Dogs of War question... you certainly could convert a unit of beastmen to wield bows and count them as mercenary crossbowmen or whatever but you probably won't find the need or desire to do so.

Most tournaments disallow them, which in turn means far too many casual gamers get a bee in their bonnet when they see them. They're also a bit poo and rob you of a rare slot. Probably be awkward getting beast models on an appropriate sized base too actually....

In summary: possible but pointless. (now why didn't he just say that to begin with and save everyone some time? :rolleyes: )

squeekenator
22-12-2006, 23:54
Skaven are cool, and resemble Orks in many ways. They can kill themselves, they have funny fluff, they speak-speak in a different way to man-things, they nearly never flee when they have lots of their friends around. While Skaven do have a reputation for cheese, it's because of the SAD armies. The army itself isn't broken unless you make a ridiculously unfluffy and extreme army that causes the entire game to be a case of "If I blow up a lot, you win, otherwise I win". They also have lots of sacrificial units.
However, they don't have game-winning characters. Far from it. Their characters sit at the back of the army and hope no-one attacks them. They aren't tough like Orks, their resilience is because they have lots of troops, not T4, unless you have an army focussed around Clan Pestilens, in which case you have lots of troops with T4 and lots of attacks but little control over them and not a single armour save in the whole army. They have no big smashy units of doom, such as the beastmen shaggoths, or any fliers like furies. They use infantry and infantry alone. However, they do have ways to kill heavily armoured, high Leadership units: the much "CHEESE!"'d Clan Skryre. Lotsa good shooting, with some of it bordering on overpowered, and deadly magic.
Just felt like giving an explanation of skaven, seeing as everyone else has been saying how beastmen play.

max the dog
24-12-2006, 03:57
Since it's a different game you might want to try something different. My main 40K army is Tyranids while my fantasy army is Wood Elves. They couldn't be more different. The Tyranids (as I'm sure you know) are a close combat horde army while the Wood Elves are the polar opposite. They are an elite shooty army. The tactics that work for one can't work for the other.
If you want to play something with a different feel then your greenskins then try an all elite army like the Elves (High, Dark or Wood), Chaos or Ogres.
Are you opposed to Ogres? If I were to start a new fantasy army they would probably be it.

Chicago Slim
24-12-2006, 04:11
I think you're on the right track with beastmen-- their flavor is much more versatile and interesting (IMO) than the human/deamon Chaos, while maintaining a lot of versatility in their troop choices. They can be a bit hordish, but they don't make a "focused" horde (too expensive per model, they max at 2 rank bonuses, and they're big-based).

The lack of ranged combat is probably a good thing for someone coming from a long-time 40K background: fantasy is substantially about unit strength and manuever; shooting can help create weaknesses for your units to exploit, but like modern-world airstrikes, shooting won't achieve an objective without boots on the ground (there are a few armies that manage to emphasize shooting, to the point of needing very few boots, but there's really a lot to be said for ground-pounding with big units of infantry-- which is something you don't really get in the same way from 40K).

Kelpi
24-12-2006, 05:12
I think its Beastmen for me, I have always liked the idea of Beastmen but I had forgotten about them. The fluff is good, and even though they are pretty chaos-ish they have a character behind them that I like.

They seem pretty rare around where I play which is good, and I can see they have potential for variety in the future.

I have done already done the shooty army thing in 40k but I end up going back to Orks.

Now the real question is what do I need to get my Beastmen started? What are the kind of units that you cant have too many of etc? My FLGS says they will do me a deal on the same units available as the US online army deal but I cant find out what that consists of.

ashaman76
24-12-2006, 05:46
If you find that you just really "need" some shooting in your beasty army you could always throw in a unit of Ogre Leadbelchers as DoW. Might make an interesting conversion for some minotaurs.

gorenut
24-12-2006, 06:41
You made the right choice. Right when I read your original post, Beastmen was the first thing that came to my mind.

Converting DoW is definitely something you can do for Beastmen. Why not push the idea further by converting some dwarfs into beastmen. I've never seen anyone do that yet. DoW dwarf with heavy armor, xbow, and shield make a very solid shooting platform that has high leadership (something Beastmen lack) and can operate away from your general's influence (who should be with the main herds anyways). Would be neat to see stout, heavily armored beasts.

Kelpi
24-12-2006, 07:21
Some interesting ideas. I think my main priority will be exploring pure Beastmen to begin with then later on when I am well settled I can think about conversions and whatnot.

In general what do people think of Dogs of War, are they a fairly common occurance or a bit of a shunned cousin?