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Shinguuji
02-01-2007, 16:48
As the title says, I wonder why so few people bring out dragons. I know in some sense, its a one-hit wonder...that dies to cannonfire sometimes...

Well, this is fantasy! We need more dragons! Dragons look cool, dragons are cool, and stuff like dragons should be seen much more than steampunk stuff like steamtanks or gyrocopters! Well, for me, I'm going to use a dragon in my army, a chaos one, but not an eye dragon, that would suck too much fun out of the game.

Anyway, this is my dragon w/o its rider(bought today, building it now)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v305/Shinguuji/RIMG0019.jpg

Well, I wouldn't mind a cut in power for dragons for a reduction of point costs, I do agree that once the dragon dies, its game over for most players, you can take a list such that everything is deadly(all chaos knights+hound screen), even then, once the dragon goes, its hard to win, really hard.

any players would like to share how to use dragons, and your thoughts/opinions on them?

Binabik15
02-01-2007, 17:01
I agree.

But not only dragons but monsters in general. I want chimeras, pegasi and giants left, right and on top of me please;)

Warhammer FANTASY Battles is too concentrated on the tactical tournament-style side of things.

Yeah, we have elves, dwarfs, orcs etc but where´s the difference when each army consits only of knight-equivalent, light-cyv equivalent, warmachine-equivalent etc?

I want monsters battling it out! And I mean big ones, not funny colored humans :evilgrin:

Catferret
02-01-2007, 17:05
Yeah! I'd have a Chaos Dragon in 3000pts but REALLY can't fit one in 2000 because I play Tzeentch...

I think the big problem is that the models are really expensive. You can almost buy 2 Regiment boxes for the same price. OK, the models are awesome but I don't have that kinda cash.

mattjgilbert
02-01-2007, 17:13
Check the rumour round up about plastic dragons.

Rumours come from this thread (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=62898)

scarletsquig
02-01-2007, 17:14
I always take a dragon in my high elf army. Just looks cool and feels like it should be a part of the army.

Keeping it alive depends on what army I'm facing - I tend to keep it out of the way until enemy bolt throwers and cannons are dealt with then let it rip down a flank.

Catferret
02-01-2007, 17:21
@mattjgilbert

The plastic giant is £25, the plastic Dragon will be at least that price and more likely more. Still not that affordable. Then you have the cost of the Rider. GW like charging £8+ for individual models so I think I'm still looking at a £40 purchase.

sephiroth87
02-01-2007, 17:24
It's tough to use a dragon in Fantasy because the only people who can usually take them are Lord choices, which often are necessary to either keep an army alive or keep it from running away. If you buy a dragon for your Lord, you put a big sign on his chest that says "kill me in one shot with a cannon and my army will run away." :mad:

It's a lot better tactically to hide the Lord in a unit where he won't be picked out as easily.

Move Fast Hit Low
02-01-2007, 17:28
same as that nutball squig i always bring a dragon to my HE games, thank god i dont play any gunlines

i also just finished a chaos dragon last night and im hoping to use it when i finally get a chaos army together

Sergeant Uriel Ventris
02-01-2007, 18:25
I want chimeras, pegasi and giants left, right and on top of me please;)

Dude, this is the most disturbing thing I've heard in a very, very long time. No animal love in the forums, please. Think of the children!

Arhalien
02-01-2007, 18:34
same as that nutball squig i always bring a dragon to my HE games, thank god i dont play any gunlines

I do play against gunline, and the one time I tried ym dragon in a battle aginst my dwarf friend I charged the flank of his ironbreakers, lost combat because of his musician and fled off the board. That then left me with1400 points to beat his 2000pts of gunline, whice I can;t do even with 2000pts of my own army. It's also very difficult for me to transport the dragon. I now just don;t bother.

EvC
02-01-2007, 19:00
Dragons are great but I still would feel iffy about using one. Most armies will either have something to easily kill it (Cannons), or nothing at all. Very rock-paper-scissors, unfortunately.


Dude, this is the most disturbing thing I've heard in a very, very long time. No animal love in the forums, please. Think of the children!

What if children don't do it for him though? :p

Weregerbil
02-01-2007, 20:15
I think the maon problem is transporting them around.

Palatine Katinka
02-01-2007, 20:22
My new Dragon model is taller, longer and wider than the depth of a GW carry case. Major problem when transporting, but it looks so cool!

cybertron2000uk
02-01-2007, 20:41
dragons are alot better than giants...a mile off...lol...plastic giant...a waste of time!!!! It better be good!! and have a decent look...

mattjgilbert
02-01-2007, 20:44
@mattjgilbert

The plastic giant is £25, the plastic Dragon will be at least that price and more likely more. Still not that affordable. Then you have the cost of the Rider. GW like charging £8+ for individual models so I think I'm still looking at a £40 purchase.Did I ask about price? I was replying to the OP in case he had not seen the thread I linked to ;)

I agree with the transport issue but the idea of a plastic kit (or kits) is cool.

Count de Monet
02-01-2007, 21:58
I'm fairly new to fantasy, but what I see as issues are:

*Transport.
Large fiddly models that pretty much need a case of their own. Able to do it without much problem, certainly, but even careful transport can sometimes have accidents and trying to reattach a 2lb wing right before a game can be annoying.

*Cost.
Aside from the monetary cost, can be expensive points-wise, and can bring up "Herohammer" aspersions.

*Characters.
From what I've seen so far, pretty much only used as mounts, not as solo monsters. For a lot of characters, the character and the dragon don't seem to play to each other's strengths. For generals that try to herd armies with their leadership or want to maximize their magic use, sitting on a large target that doesn't even improve your save like a regular horse/boar/etc. would seems dangerous. If I could take a dragon/Wyvern etc with or without riders as a Rare choice independent of a Lord, I would.

Binabik15
02-01-2007, 22:31
What if children don't do it for him though? :p

:cries:

You guys are worse than the people I normally hang out with.

And they are some :eek: freaks.

My sexual preferances are nothing you have to be concerned about :angel:

´cept if you´re a girl between 16 and 21...

But to be at least a BIT on topic, those can be real monsters as well...

intellectawe
02-01-2007, 22:53
Thank God I play Chaos Dwarves. I can use a Mount such as a Taurus and STILL make a Hero my general.

I pity the dragon users who must be generals!

Sandlemad
02-01-2007, 23:54
I wouldn't mind seeing more of what I'd term 'medium monsters'.
Things like the new night goblin giant squig, the goblin gigantic spider, chaos' daemonic steeds, kislev's bear, wood elve's elk, etc. These tend to be in or around the power of things like manticores and hippogriffs but are land-based. They make a nice touch, particularly if they can keep up with that race's cavalry.

A Rhinox mount for the ogres would be nice, turns the general into a unit on his own. I mean, more so.;)
Some lumbering great beast for the beastmen would be nice, not that they're lacking in the monster department. Same can be said of the lizardmen, some halfway house between cold one and carnosaur would be cool, if a somewhat unnecessary.
Perhaps some stronger horse for Brets? Similiar to Valten's steed or Tyrion's. This is partially to facilitate the many conversions of Archaon's steed I see about.

adreal
03-01-2007, 00:04
I'm fairly new to fantasy, but what I see as issues are:

*Transport.
Large fiddly models that pretty much need a case of their own. Able to do it without much problem, certainly, but even careful transport can sometimes have accidents and trying to reattach a 2lb wing right before a game can be annoying.

*Cost.
Aside from the monetary cost, can be expensive points-wise, and can bring up "Herohammer" aspersions.

*Characters.
From what I've seen so far, pretty much only used as mounts, not as solo monsters. For a lot of characters, the character and the dragon don't seem to play to each other's strengths. For generals that try to herd armies with their leadership or want to maximize their magic use, sitting on a large target that doesn't even improve your save like a regular horse/boar/etc. would seems dangerous. If I could take a dragon/Wyvern etc with or without riders as a Rare choice independent of a Lord, I would.

The only races that can use dragons are elves and chaos (okay empire may be able to as well, I'm not sure if it is an option for everyone or just Karl)

Do I use dragons, not in campaigns unless we go upto 3000pts, because in campaigns it's more of the story and a Dragon Prince isn't going to be leading a scouting colony. In friendlies, yeah sometimes, but i make sure that I'm not cheesed out if I do. So no shooting, or only magic I have is a level 1 with annulan crystal.

When I use him, what do I do, hmm charge him up the flank, pick off a weak unit, overrun into the rear then pick my targets combined with a charge from either silver helms or dragon princes. Although, my other flanks has a tendency to fall apart.....but I blame that on my commander in chariot, not on my dragon

Paulus
03-01-2007, 01:40
As the title says, I wonder why so few people bring out dragons. I know in some sense, its a one-hit wonder...that dies to cannonfire sometimes...

Well, this is fantasy! We need more dragons! Dragons look cool, dragons are cool, and stuff like dragons should be seen much more than steampunk stuff like steamtanks or gyrocopters! Well, for me, I'm going to use a dragon in my army, a chaos one, but not an eye dragon, that would suck too much fun out of the game.

Anyway, this is my dragon w/o its rider(bought today, building it now)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v305/Shinguuji/RIMG0019.jpg

Well, I wouldn't mind a cut in power for dragons for a reduction of point costs, I do agree that once the dragon dies, its game over for most players, you can take a list such that everything is deadly(all chaos knights+hound screen), even then, once the dragon goes, its hard to win, really hard.

any players would like to share how to use dragons, and your thoughts/opinions on them?

I agree, Dragon's are one of the first things I think of in relation to fantasy & I don't believe that they hold as big a part as they should

Varath- Lord Impaler
03-01-2007, 02:08
It sounds like someone just watched/read Eragon (DrGOns!! aRE TeH ColLESt!!11!)

Hehehe, i dont like dragons as much as the mid sized creatures.

We already have the stats in the High Elf book! just models and make them Dogs of War or something!

Cockatrice! Behold the DEATH CHICKEN OF DOOM! CUCKOOOOOOOO! *dies*

Paulus
03-01-2007, 02:12
Wouldn't people walk out of that movie & think "oh god, Dragon's suck" :cheese: - Hee hee :D

Zzarchov
03-01-2007, 03:17
I used to have one in my Orc and Gobbo Horde through 4rth and 5th edition..6th killed that.

DeathlessDraich
03-01-2007, 10:18
I've just completed a project for Dragons as an army list with mythical beasts similar to dragons thrown in. Warseer might be publishing this in the near future.
In the meantime any dragon lover is welcome to play test this army. Send me a message with an e-mail address.

Jedi152
03-01-2007, 10:21
I don't like dragons. Too high fantasy.

I will accept that they exist in the warhammer world, but, like most monsters, should be as rare as hens teeth. Only the luckiest questing knight should see one outside of Ulthuan/the wastes/the Imperial zoo.

Varath- Lord Impaler
03-01-2007, 11:17
Ah Paulus...you read my mind. That movie truly was the most horrible thing i have had to endure.

I want more Mid sized (not just ogres and trolls) and more GRIBBLIES! the little tiny horrible things!

BabyRico23
03-01-2007, 12:34
quoted from another post: "There are currently four unreleased Dragon types knocking around the studio!
Not a kit to make four dragons...four different dragon kits."
i believe Harry said this and as he is usually right when he leaks out info it looks like u may get ur wish

Inkosi
03-01-2007, 15:00
Well, this is fantasy! We need more dragons! Dragons look cool, dragons are cool, and stuff like dragons should be seen much more than steampunk stuff like steamtanks or gyrocopters! Well, for me, I'm going to use a dragon in my army, a chaos one, but not an eye dragon, that would suck too much fun out of the game.



Interestingly i never realised fantasy was all about dragons. Hello, at least 50% of all fantasy stories do not contain a dragon.

Dragonlance aint the only fantasy stories.

If you want a dragon its for your own fluffy reasons so please try not to drag the whole fantasy genre in

Paulus
03-01-2007, 15:22
I cannot speak for Shinguuji who set up this thread but feel that I should make my point more clear.

I do not feel that Dragons should be made overly powerful or more prominent in gaming terms (although I do think they should be almost as powerful as a Bloodthirster).

My thought is that fluff wise Dragon's are almost irrelevant other than as a mount for hero's, I'm not a fluff expert & others may be able to prove me wrong here but I just feel that they almost seem tagged on to the Warhammer world rather than an important part.

intellectawe
03-01-2007, 15:41
Dragons in warhammer are a joke. They are all stupid beats kept in pens and only taken out to be ridden like horses until blown apart by a cannon.

Dragons serve next to no purpose in the warhammer fluff other than making a hero look cool. Thats it.


Interestingly i never realised fantasy was all about dragons. Hello, at least 50% of all fantasy stories do not contain a dragon.

Dragonlance aint the only fantasy stories.

If you want a dragon its for your own fluffy reasons so please try not to drag the whole fantasy genre in

So its ok to have mummies, skeletons, vampires, werewolves, orcs and goblins, hydras, dwarves, elves, giant eagles, demons, Gods, etc etc etc but not dragons? I guess Dragons WOULD make this game too much fantasy then right? :wtf: :rolleyes:

Wez
03-01-2007, 17:19
If people want to use dragons, let them. If they don't, then they don't have to.

I don't really see the issue - you like using dragons, others don't. You use dragons, others don't.

Sandlemad
03-01-2007, 20:48
Dragons in warhammer are a joke. They are all stupid beats kept in pens and only taken out to be ridden like horses until blown apart by a cannon.
Dragons serve next to no purpose in the warhammer fluff other than making a hero look cool. Thats it.

Nah mate, they're there to give Slayers something to kill.:p

Fluffwise, they're an intelligent race, smarter than most and able to converse in other races tongues but are seperate from men, dwarves or elves. They don't seem to have anything resembling society or culture and live on their own in the remote parts of the world. Some of the oldest were there when the old ones built the polar gates.

I quite like the WH portrayal of dragons. Not dumb beasts but not super magical beings with some sort of magical connection to teenage boys. Just big, smart, cold and calculating lizards who view the other races as being food or entertainment.

Frecus
03-01-2007, 21:28
Nah mate, they're there to give Slayers something to kill.:p

Fluffwise, they're an intelligent race, smarter than most and able to converse in other races tongues but are seperate from men, dwarves or elves. They don't seem to have anything resembling society or culture and live on their own in the remote parts of the world. Some of the oldest were there when the old ones built the polar gates.

I quite like the WH portrayal of dragons. Not dumb beasts but not super magical beings with some sort of magical connection to teenage boys. Just big, smart, cold and calculating lizards who view the other races as being food or entertainment.

But that's not like how they're portrayed in the current army books. In the WE army book for example, they are portrayed similair to dryads!
Not rulers of the forest, no, the forest is their protector and user.:eyebrows:

They are the steeds of heroes, and in decline as least as much as the elves or dwarves.
I find this a pity...

Frecus
The glade wanderer
Madwarrior

Killshot
03-01-2007, 21:52
GW has toned the dragons since the days of 4th and 5th edition when there were 3 levels that dragons could be at. I remember the fond days when the only reason I took a Bloodthirster was to combat my friend's HE Lord with the Sword of Nuclear Destruction mouned on an Emperor Dragon.

I wouldn't mind seeing Dragons making a come back, but as long as the hard core tourny players are the only ones that GW reps see.....

Stormtrooper Clark
04-01-2007, 21:40
I'd rather enjoy a Dragon devouring my Army than a Karl Franz in Power Armour any day.