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Diomedes
06-01-2007, 01:19
hhmmmm ........ wonder how a gravity exploiting(aka uses gravity to feed rounds) feed would work under water because of upthrust...............................

well thats me its 17 past 1 in the morning here and im logging of to go do sit ups

Not wanting to go further off topic than we already are...I never knew Scotland was an hour behind England! :wtf:

A more on topic question would be how would a Lasgun work underwater, what with water refracting light?

xibo
06-01-2007, 01:20
mlrs vs. a single infantrist = more dakka = morale boost.

Slaaneshi Slave
06-01-2007, 01:21
I'd imagine a few metres of boiling water, a few scald burns on the firer, and not much else. Of course, thats assuming you didn't electrocute yourself putting it in the water in the first place. :p

Laughingmonk
06-01-2007, 01:22
Is the SAW equivilent to our GPMG (Gen Purpose Machine Gun) or LSR (Light Sup Weapon - modified assault rifle with bipod, longer barrel etc)?

The m249 SAW (AKA the FN MINIMI) is a bit strange. The best way to describe it is to say it's exactly in between the two. The LSW is an automatic rifle, whereareas the SAW is a dedicated light machine gun in design. Internally, the SAW shares much in common with the GPMG (which we marines call the m240g), such as quick change barrels and the open-bolt design. The SAW can use magazines or a belt, and even though it is designed as a light machine gun it is most often used as an automatic rifle.



Furthermore, we have shortened the barrel, added additional rail system, and a collapsable buttstock, so it's like a little tommygun, and is utterly absurd in house to house fighting

In short, it rocks :evilgrin:

Jams alot though :mad:

xibo
06-01-2007, 01:22
Not wanting to go further off topic than we already are...I never knew Scotland was an hour behind England! :wtf:

A more on topic question would be how would a Lasgun work underwater, what with water refracting light?
IIRC major rawne of the first tanith once fired a laspistol under water, but i could be wrong ( it's been fairly long time since i readt that )

Diomedes
06-01-2007, 01:23
I'd imagine a few metres of boiling water, a few scald burns on the firer, and not much else. Of course, thats assuming you didn't electrocute yourself putting it in the water in the first place. :p

Which brings up the question what do Guardsmen do when fighting in swamps or rain forest's if getting their weapon wet effecively electrocutes them? :p

See, I'm trying to get this back on topic! :D

Slaaneshi Slave
06-01-2007, 01:25
They all form human shields around the grenade launcher guy and auto cannon crew. We all know they are the only ones who do the killing anyway. :p

Catferret
06-01-2007, 01:25
Which brings up the question what do Guardsmen do when fighting in swamps or rain forest's if getting their weapon wet effecively electrocutes them? :p

See, I'm trying to get this back on topic! :D

They use Veterans with Shotguns because Storm Troopers sucked!:D That was mentioned near the beginning of the thread somewhere...

(I like Storm Troopers btw...)

MrBigMr
06-01-2007, 01:26
Do the Germans use AS90s? I thought they were just British.
The silencer is german, I don't know about the tank. I'm not trained spotting western equipment, as I don't think we're suppose to fight them. I can stop various eastern equipment more easily.


wtf was sgt thinking
hhhmmmm............im in a tin box on tracks with a huge missle launcher on top there isnt going to be a loud bang or huge recoil no, it will be the same as sitting on my sofa
Pleace, wouldn't be the first time I've seen something like that happen. Everyone makes stupid things all the time. Mix in guns and explosives, and you'll have yourself a pile of corpses.
I know one guy who started a fire in the fireplace (I don't know the english word for at 4am, but basicle a steel cylinder that warms up the tent) at a tent. He poured in like a quater gallon of denatured alcohol and looked closely from the hatch as he dropped the match inside. Now what do you suppose happened to the guy once the fluid went off?
Or a guy washing his private parts with denatured alcohol, mistaking it for water. He even warmed it up on open flame.
I've done some silly stuff too, like smoking while sitting on a crate of live ammo, next to a crate of grenades and a jerry can of gasoline.


But the SAW also has the advantage of being a light machine gun, and can fire far, far faster than a 16.
M249 - ROF 725rpms linked, 1000rpms magazine.
M16 - from 750 to 900rpms, depending on the model. The problem is that the A2 variant doesn't have full automatic fire.

[QUOTE=Laughingmonk;1196548]2.) yes, it's harder to hit with small arms than most people realize. We both know this, that's why I was amazed at how guardsmen can kill space marines.
A marine is a 7" tall freak in a brightly colored suit of armor, making him about the size of a small car. I don't see any problems in hitting him.

Slaaneshi Slave
06-01-2007, 01:28
A marine is a 7" tall freak in a brightly colored suit of armor, making him about the size of a small car. I don't see any problems in hitting him.

Who doesn't know why he would want to avoid your rounds, has never heard of firing manouvers or the prone position. A marine lumbering forward may as well be a stationary target, for all the difference it would make.

EDIT: I think this is my current favourite thread, its even better than the discussion on the nature of religion in P&R.

Outlaw289
06-01-2007, 01:30
Is the SAW equivilent to our GPMG (Gen Purpose Machine Gun) or LSR (Light Sup Weapon - modified assault rifle with bipod, longer barrel etc)?

American equivalent to the GPMG is the M240 and the modernized M60 machine guns.

The SAW is more similar to the LSW, though it isn't a modified assault rifle so much as it is a light, fireteam-level suppression weapon.

Laughingmonk
06-01-2007, 01:31
mlrs vs. a single infantrist = more dakka = morale boost.

HAhaha. Consider youself sigged!

MrBigMr
06-01-2007, 01:34
Which brings up the question what do Guardsmen do when fighting in swamps or rain forest's if getting their weapon wet effecively electrocutes them? :p
Oh, reminds me of what one of the trainers said in the army.
A guy was standing knee deep in a rainy swamp, held a detonator line in both of his hands, had the detonator in his chest pocket and his cell phone in the pocket of his pants. The phone rings and an electric charge blows the detonator.

Slaaneshi Slave
06-01-2007, 01:35
And that, kids, is why you don't take your phone on ex or more importantly, ops.

MrBigMr
06-01-2007, 01:44
Who doesn't know why he would want to avoid your rounds, has never heard of firing manouvers or the prone position. A marine lumbering forward may as well be a stationary target, for all the difference it would make.
When that small brightly colored car is flying at a 100 miles per hour, firing 20mm explosive rockets and wielding a huge chainsaw, it won't care about small pieces of metal flying at it.

And cell phones are important while on camps. You can call people, check the time, play games while on watch and take photos/videos of your pals doing stupid shht. Nothing's more funnier than watching a guy trying to dig a foxhole into a totaly frozen ground. Oh, the language.

Laughingmonk
06-01-2007, 01:54
When that small brightly colored car is flying at a 100 miles per hour, firing 20mm explosive rockets and wielding a huge chainsaw, it won't care about small pieces of metal flying at it.

And cell phones are important while on camps. You can call people, check the time, play games while on watch and take photos/videos of your pals doing stupid shht. Nothing's more funnier than watching a guy trying to dig a foxhole into a totaly frozen ground. Oh, the language.

Just don't be stupid with detonators and you'll be fine. I love my phone, what with all of the crappy radios, it might be the only comm you have....

As for the first part, what if they have "seen, but don't be seen"? :p

Guerrilla marines! A disgrace! Sneaky little bastards.

Slaaneshi Slave
06-01-2007, 01:57
I've had better than that. The first exercise I ever went on in basic training and had to dig shell scrapes (3 foot holes for sleeping in). We were all digging away, and about 6 or so inches into the soil I hit rock. Well, I thought it was rock. It was a 10 foot round concrete slab. I tried digging somewhere else and got an earfull from my section commander. When I explained the problem she thought it was hillarious to make me stay in that exact spot, and nobody in the section would get to sleep until we had dug my shell scrape through the piece of concrete.

We were almost finished the next morning at first light, going at it all night with pick axes when we were bugged out and had to move to a new harbour area. =.=

MrBigMr
06-01-2007, 02:06
Just don't be stupid with detonators and you'll be fine. I love my phone, what with all of the crappy radios, it might be the only comm you have....
Well me about it. Helf the time the damn radios didn't work. But we got some nifty training on how to disrupt on enemy communications and such.
As for detonators, I'm a medic (a guerilla medic), so I realy won't be handling any explosives. But my favorite would be the 750g of TNT taped to a stick, fuse, light and oh, man, lookit dem trees flyin' and shht.


As for the first part, what if they have "seen, but don't be seen"? :p
Guerrilla marines! A disgrace! Sneaky little bastards.
I have a marine army planned. They'd use mainly siege tactics and their gear would me a tad more "realistic". Like bolters with vertical grips and scopes and all that. I wanted them to look like the Guard. I've even planned to model heavy weapons from IG HW teams. So a lascannon would be on a tripod and heavy bolters would be carried like more real MGs, have a bipod on them and all that.

MrBigMr
06-01-2007, 02:18
I've had funner than that.
Wait, there's more.
-One guy fell asleep during his watch and the lieutenant just peaked into the tent and ordered them to move the tent in the middle of the night in freezing cold.
-During the summer, if you bitch about it being hot, you'll have to move your tent 10cm to the north, because it's colder in the north. Same goes the other way in the winter when you bitch about it being cold.
-One guy had fewer of 38 celsius and he was ordered to a camp. Next day he returned with an acute inflammation of the heart muscle. It could have been fatal.
-Our barracs were deemed unlivable (is that even a word?), but we didn't live there, we were stationed there. Pretty much everyone was sick all the time. I spent most of my time popping all sorts of pills to keep going.
-One guy lost his rifle in the forrest and the whole company was ordered to look for it. No one was to leave for the weekend till it was found. The rifle was found 2 hours before we could get the hell away from there.

Etc. etc. Damn army. Good thing I stole a kevlar helmet from there. Among other things. Shows them.

Slaaneshi Slave
06-01-2007, 02:20
I have 3 helmets, only ever signed for 1. Why, are they worth anything? :D

Laughingmonk
06-01-2007, 02:26
I've had funner than that. The first exercise I ever went on in basic training and had to dig shell scrapes (3 foot holes for sleeping in). We were all digging away, and about 6 or so inches into the soil I hit rock. Well, I thought it was rock. It was a 10 foot round concrete slab. I tried digging somewhere else and got an earfull from my section commander. When I explained the problem she thought it was hillarious to make me stay in that exact spot, and nobody in the section would get to sleep until we had dug my shell scrape through the piece of concrete.

We were almost finished the next morning at first light, going at it all night with pick axes when we were bugged out and had to move to a new harbour area. =.=


Wanna know what's exceedingly, gut achingly funny? An entire platoon of 82 naked men stuffed into two bathroom stalls. That was a REAL fun day. Yes, it's possible. Men crouching in toilets, stacked up to the ceiling. Ha Ha :eek:

I'm sorry, but basic training was the funniest, most painful joke in my life.

I wonder how guardsmen haze eachother?

I'd imagine warp travel would be a good one to mess around with Boots with.

Laughingmonk
06-01-2007, 02:48
Well me about it. Helf the time the damn radios didn't work. But we got some nifty training on how to disrupt on enemy communications and such.
As for detonators, I'm a medic (a guerilla medic), so I realy won't be handling any explosives. But my favorite would be the 750g of TNT taped to a stick, fuse, light and oh, man, lookit dem trees flyin' and shht.


I have a marine army planned. They'd use mainly siege tactics and their gear would me a tad more "realistic". Like bolters with vertical grips and scopes and all that. I wanted them to look like the Guard. I've even planned to model heavy weapons from IG HW teams. So a lascannon would be on a tripod and heavy bolters would be carried like more real MGs, have a bipod on them and all that.

I'm a line company assaultman, so explosives and big guns (SMAWs, LAW's, m32's and shotguns) are my forte'. My personal favorite is the Footlocker sized platoon murdering improvised claymore mine, never got to use it though, :cries: . I also have a hard-on for Det-Chord.

Don't forget Dual mags on the bolters! Ya might wanna take a look at the scout bike boltguns. definitely very cool.

I actually wanted to Make a guard army based off of the Marine Corps. But I want to finish my Biel Tann Eldar first.

Use Veterans as "Force Recon," with little ILBE packs. And use the hardened fighters doctrine (MOUT training!).

MrBigMr
06-01-2007, 11:42
Wanna know what's exceedingly, gut achingly funny? An entire platoon of 82 naked men stuffed into two bathroom stalls. That was a REAL fun day. Yes, it's possible. Men crouching in toilets, stacked up to the ceiling. Ha Ha :eek:
One of the medical NCOs told about two guys in their training. They were homophobic to the bone. Now imagine them being paired up and ending up measuring each others temperature analy.
Thank god we never had to actualy do it. All we had to know was "7cm, 7 minutes".


I'm a line company assaultman, so explosives and big guns (SMAWs, LAW's, m32's and shotguns) are my forte'. My personal favorite is the Footlocker sized platoon murdering improvised claymore mine, never got to use it though, :cries: . I also have a hard-on for Det-Chord.
Oh, fun times. We got training on pretty much anything the garrison had. Machine guns, shotguns, grenades, sniper rifles (semi and bolt), LAWs, APILASes, anti-tank mines, antipersonnel mines... The works.
We also had those huge claymore mines. Fun stuff.


Don't forget Dual mags on the bolters!
Or, nearly forgot those. Have to make a note of it.


I actually wanted to Make a guard army based off of the Marine Corps. But I want to finish my Biel Tann Eldar first.
I have an IG regiment based on the marines from Aliens.

guillimansknight
06-01-2007, 15:30
Not wanting to go further off topic than we already are...I never knew Scotland was an hour behind England! :wtf:

A more on topic question would be how would a Lasgun work underwater, what with water refracting light?

either your watch/whatever is wrong or my computers auto update is bust


lasguns under water????............................

they'd be a flame template str 1 weapon id say (now that would be funny)

xibo
06-01-2007, 16:09
either your watch/whatever is wrong or my computers auto update is bust


lasguns under water????............................

they'd be a flame template str 1 weapon id say (now that would be funny)
They would be more effective than outside of the water... :D

Diomedes
06-01-2007, 18:15
either your watch/whatever is wrong or my computers auto update is bust


lasguns under water????............................

they'd be a flame template str 1 weapon id say (now that would be funny)

Well according to Warseer you posted at 2.17am and according to my watch, dvd player and computer you did too.;)

Can anyone remember if a Lasgun has been fired underwater in fluff for definite, I think it would be possible but you would have to compensate for it when you aimed.

I also think that it would create a lot of steam!

xibo
06-01-2007, 19:10
Well according to Warseer you posted at 2.17am and according to my watch, dvd player and computer you did too.;)

Can anyone remember if a Lasgun has been fired underwater in fluff for definite, I think it would be possible but you would have to compensate for it when you aimed.

I also think that it would create a lot of steam!
I dont know if 40k lasers = todays lasers but with todays ones you could try to laspointer on the bottom of a pot/bowl with water in it or the likes.

MrBigMr
06-01-2007, 19:15
I dont know if 40k lasers = todays lasers but with todays ones you could try to laspointer on the bottom of a pot/bowl with water in it or the likes.
If 40K las weapons are anything like las weapons in the Dune universe, they're quite differen't from conventional lasers. In Dune the las weapons are said to fire beams of sub-atomic energy, which would mean that they're Free Electron Lasers, using magnetic fields to project electrons, rather than the normal gas/diode laser. The effect is the same.

guillimansknight
06-01-2007, 20:27
They would be more effective than outside of the water... :D

yep i done it in my head

in a fire fight of 5 IG vs 5 IG(at flame template range) the ones with the water-lasguns draw with the rapid firing IG throw in cover and they win

Voltaire
06-01-2007, 20:42
This topic title reminded me of that old joke.

What do you call a Lasgun with a laser scope?

Twin Linked.

xibo
06-01-2007, 22:12
yep exactly: kasakin obviously have combi flashlights put on the top left of their flashlights -> they should have flashlight-flashlights

Warlord Kyle
06-01-2007, 22:40
Think about it, it represents the mass production of imperial guardsman rifles. Both bolters and lasguns are made by hand but they definetly need more lasguns to arm the trillions of guardsmen, compared to equipting the thousands of marines. Also bolters and to heavy and bulky for the average trooper, it makes sense to me.

Slaaneshi Slave
06-01-2007, 22:48
But I think the original question was more along the lines of "Why were Lasguns nerfed compared to Bolters?".

Baneboss
07-01-2007, 00:03
Though i play IG only I like the reason bolters are much stronger. Lasguns are cheap, easy to produce weapons. They are fine. Bolter on the other hand are small missile launchers. Impact of the bolt means you can say bye bye to that part of the body.

xibo
07-01-2007, 00:24
Though i play IG only I like the reason bolters are much stronger. Lasguns are cheap, easy to produce weapons. They are fine. Bolter on the other hand are small missile launchers. Impact of the bolt means you can say bye bye to that part of the body.
I'd guess being hit by a weapon that has 50% prob. to inflict critical damage to the vehicle you've been using as transport is supposed to loose the that part of your body, too...

... I can see someone loosing something after being hit by slaaneshis' SAW... no wait, only if it's a cultist beared one because the kimera-mounted variant leaves your armour ( just cloth at most bodyparts that can fly away ) unscratched.

EDIT: Hey look at my post count. Sacred Number!

Slaaneshi Slave
07-01-2007, 00:58
I say in the next Guard Codex we just arm all Infantry platoons with a MRLS strike, usable once per game. Pick a table quarter, everything in that quarter dies on a rerollable 2+.

MrBigMr
07-01-2007, 01:13
I say in the next Guard Codex we just arm all Infantry platoons with a MRLS strike, usable once per game. Pick a table quarter, everything in that quarter dies on a rerollable 2+.
Better yet, take armored company, siege regiment and 9 basilisks. Hide them behind some terrain and pray to the Emperor you get to go first.

Outlaw289
07-01-2007, 06:01
If 40K las weapons are anything like las weapons in the Dune universe, they're quite differen't from conventional lasers. In Dune the las weapons are said to fire beams of sub-atomic energy, which would mean that they're Free Electron Lasers, using magnetic fields to project electrons, rather than the normal gas/diode laser. The effect is the same.

3rd Ed rulebook says they fire coherent light. Would a FEL be much different? :chrome:

MrBigMr
07-01-2007, 07:51
3rd Ed rulebook says they fire coherent light. Would a FEL be much different? :chrome:
While an FEL laser beam shares the same optical properties as conventional lasers such as coherent radiation, the operation of an FEL is quite different. Unlike gas or diode lasers which rely on bound atomic or molecular states, FELs use a relativistic electron beam as the lasing medium, hence the term free-electron. Free electron lasers can be used to generate terahertz radiation.
So I'd propably say, yes, they're the same. Also, in Metal Gear Solid, REX has a free electron laser mounted under it, which it uses against Snake on short ranges.
I think that since FELs seem to have a simpler design compared to conventional lasers, only needing an accelerator and energy, they'd be far more plausable as the choise for a simple design laser rifle for the imperium.