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Narandil
13-07-2005, 19:54
It seems that people know quite a lot about the rumours of new dwarves. I have some questions for those of you who can answer them.

Will the book be re-writen? The dwarf book is relativly new so this might not be true.

Will the warriors be re-done? Again, fairly new.......

Will it be a big revamp? I have heard from numerous people that it will be nearly as big as the wood elf one, seems unlikely but possible.

Will doomseekers be in the new list? Seems wierd to bring out a new unit and replace them within a year.

Is there an e-mail address that I could ask about from GW official?

Thanks for any responses,
all help much appreciated

The boyz
13-07-2005, 20:13
I was told by my local GW manager that there will be a revamp on some of the minatures, he was quite sure that there will be a box containing the option to arm your dwarves as either Xbowen or thunderers and that they might be doing a plastic special choice aswell. He was'nt sure though what that would be he said it could be a cannon or some other war machine made into plastic.
Wether this is true or not I am not sure. And I am not sure if he was a reliable source or not. I know, well hopefully they are planning to bring out a Dwarf battalion boxed set, some time in 2006.
And there are rumours that the 7th edition version of Warhammer may contain Dwarves V Goblins. But I am unsure.

Chuffy
13-07-2005, 20:27
The Dwarf book isn't that new, 2000/2001 (if memory serves correctly), same with Dwarf Warriors. Plus the fact that people are clamouring for new Dwarf Warriors means if there is a new Dwarf book coming out, count on new warrior models.

I doubt it being a big re-vamp, many things need to be fixed but I doubt it will be a major overhaul. I can't see Doomseekers being in the normal list, slayers only. Thats another point, if we are to look at things rationally, there MAY be a chance of plastic slayers considering it fills up more plastic slots for Dwarfs and can be used in two different army lists.

Darkfang74
13-07-2005, 20:45
From what I have gathered the book is getting re-written. It was the third army book to come for 6th ed. The warriors have been out since 1997, being released in france and italy a few years before the rest of the world. So yes.... not new at all.

And the storm of chaos lists, ie Slayers, wel stay as is since its the Slayer list from SoC so its fine as is.

Chuffy
13-07-2005, 20:53
???

Dwarf Warriors 1997?

We're talking about the plastic set with gross weapons and crossbows.

At least I think we are.

athamas
13-07-2005, 20:59
yeah the 'new' plastics are awfull, they were in the 2000 era, 1997, was the release of 3ed 40k!

Xisor
13-07-2005, 21:01
If you notice in those 'release' white dwarfs, alongside the Empire and Orc and Goblin books, then you will notice *alot* of the races plastics had already been released, and were not actually new to that 'release'. IIRC this applies to Dwarfs too.

As a point of hope rather than importance, I hope Crossbowmen(dwarfs) are renamed Quarellers, to be in line with Thunderers, with Warriors(hopefully) becoming Clansmen. If for nothing other than 'seeming' more personal...

Xisor

Griefbringer
13-07-2005, 21:24
yeah the 'new' plastics are awfull, they were in the 2000 era, 1997, was the release of 3ed 40k!

Nope - 40K 3rd edition came out in 1998.

In most of the world, the multi-part dwarf set was released with the 6th edition dwarf book (that is about early 2001), however in some countries (France) it was available earlier - perhaps a year earlier or so (claims of 1997 sound a bit ridiculous to me - the first multi-part plastic unit of chaos warriors was released in very late 1997 or so).

Darkfang74
13-07-2005, 21:48
They were put out a few months before Mordheim was relased. So when ever that was the Plastic Dwarfs we have now were first put out in like I said, france and Italy

Chuffy
13-07-2005, 21:54
They were put out a few months before Mordheim was relased. So when ever that was the Plastic Dwarfs we have now were first put out in like I said, france and Italy

Whoa, thats very early to release them.

I remember the box sets being out a bit earlier, but before Mordheim!

You lucky bastards!

Dargon
14-07-2005, 01:08
???

Dwarf Warriors 1997?

We're talking about the plastic set with gross weapons and crossbows.

At least I think we are.The Plastic Dwarf Warriors Set was first released in May of 1999.
For some reason this set was exclusive to a few countries like France and Australia. The set was the same set we have now, except it had metal parts for converting the command models, and lacked the plastic Command/Great Weapon sprue (so you could only equip them with hand weapons or Xbows).

Most other countries didn't see the set until 6th Edition (February 2001). As Xisor mentioned, many other Plastic sets are also originally from around this period (Skeletons/Zombies/Empire Militia/Clanrats/Night Runners/Night Goblins/Orcs/etc), the Dwarfs were just the only ones to get a limited release.


As for the rumours...

Latest rumours are placing the new Dwarfs as a Xmas release this year - there is a Dwarf Army Set listed for this time, and Witersmute revealed in the 40K rumour forums that GW are planning a big Fantasy release for this period.

New plastics for the Dwarfs are a given, and have been rumoured for well over a year - though what form they'll take is still speculation. It's possible GW will continue to add options to the current plastic set - but my bet (and hope) is on a full range of completely new plastic sets replacing the current sprues, that are much more specific. A plastic War Machine is also likely, as GW will undoubtedly use the opportunity to finally give the Dwarfs an all-plastic Battalion Set.

The rumours of a re-write to the Dwarf book have been very persistant, despite the unlikelyhood. However, it's safe to say that GW won't be revamping the Dwarf models without some kind of book to help promote them. Unless we get word of new releases for another existing army (which would imply a campaign book), then a new revised Dwarf Armybook is looking more and more likely.

Take what you will from the above, and note that up until a few days ago I was betting on not seeing any new Dwarfs until Sept 2006 :rolleyes: .

Just a thought...

Voss
14-07-2005, 03:41
Hopefully we'll hear something from the Chicago Games Day at the end of the month. I suspect they'll upset people if they just say upcoming for fantasy: Wood Elves. (since you'll be able to get the army box by then)


However, it's safe to say that GW won't be revamping the Dwarf models without some kind of book to help promote them

Well, they did do it with the random scattering of High Elf stuff... That army deal listing on the other thread, however, suggests a big revision though.

Darkfang74
14-07-2005, 05:12
Lucky my butt, the Euro release got a cool metal head for unit champ, and two metal arms so the champ had dual axes! Looked bad arsed! But in the States and UK can't get them so bugger!

Darkfang74
14-07-2005, 05:19
Hopefully we'll hear something from the Chicago Games Day at the end of the month. I suspect they'll upset people if they just say upcoming for fantasy: Wood Elves. (since you'll be able to get the army box by then)



Well, they did do it with the random scattering of High Elf stuff... That army deal listing on the other thread, however, suggests a big revision though.


And again.

The price for the said boxxed army is $215

The 215 army boxxes include the army book, so its a safe bet its gonna be a NEW one.

75hastings69
14-07-2005, 05:59
It seems that people know quite a lot about the rumours of new dwarves. I have some questions for those of you who can answer them.

Will the book be re-writen? The dwarf book is relativly new so this might not be true.

No. It will simply be more plastic models.



Will the warriors be re-done? Again, fairly new........

Yes.



Will it be a big revamp? I have heard from numerous people that it will be nearly as big as the wood elf one, seems unlikely but possible..

Not huge. 2 x plastic regiment boxes, 1 x plastic cannon, 1 x battallion box.



Will doomseekers be in the new list? Seems wierd to bring out a new unit and replace them within a year..

To the best of my knowledge there is no new list, just new models.



Is there an e-mail address that I could ask about from GW official?.

I wouldn't bother, they wont let on anything :mad:

NakedFisherman
14-07-2005, 06:11
No. It will simply be more plastic models.

And there it is, folks. 2 platic regiment boxes. Sounds good. :P

To me at least -- the models often determine whether I use the unit or not! :P

Darkfang74
14-07-2005, 06:55
That doesn't explain the price of the army box. $215s include a book fo that price.

If not a complete re-do of the army book I would bet $5 it well at least be an updated one

Narandil
14-07-2005, 08:26
No. It will simply be more plastic models.



Can you honestly say that this information is reliable?
Will any of the dwarf metals get a re-vamp? some of the hammerers are pretty bad :(

Sir_Glonojad
14-07-2005, 08:30
The Dwarf sprue is marked " (c) Games Workshop 1998", though it is quite common for plastics to be done a little before the release. On the same note, Dark Elf plastics are stamped (c) 1999, though they are done in the 6th edition style already (with command bits in plastic).

Still, rumours are floating about a Dwarf Batallion, Dwarf Campaign, and sometimes new Dwarf Rules for quite some time.

rkunisch
14-07-2005, 09:23
Will the book be re-writen? The dwarf book is relativly new so this might not be true.
The book is relatively new? Well, what do you consider relatively? :confused: The Dwarf army book was the third book of 6th edition and is one of the oldes books out there (only be topped by Empire and Orcs & Goblins). It is a good book compared to most that followed it, but it is old nevertheless...

Have fun,

Rolf.

Narandil
14-07-2005, 09:28
well I meant by that, that the dwarves had an army book (not new but at least they have one that works with the current rules). This is the first time that we have seen an army book re-written (if it is to be re-written)

Evisss
14-07-2005, 09:47
I am just hoping that dwarfs get both new models and a new army book as they are a bit broken. As for the plastics i wouldnt expect any of the special units apart from the cannon and slayers but then again if they release new hammerers then it would be great as they are just horrible.

Narandil
14-07-2005, 09:49
Dwarfs wouldn't be complete without new metals, though I would be happy with just plastics. A new book would be VERY VERY nice

75hastings69
14-07-2005, 15:25
Hi everyone, first off apologies for my earlier post, i was wrong. please read on............

There WILL be a new Dwarf Army book, released at xmas.

The Dwarf range IS getting completely redone, which is the direct opposite of what i was told last week, when i was told that there was to be only 2 new plastic regiments, a new plastic war machine kit (that could be used to make different war machines), and the battallion box, but definately NO new characters.

I for one am really excited about this, a friend of mine has seen the new Warmachine designed by Alex Hedstrom and says they are the dogs bollox!!!

Narandil
14-07-2005, 16:09
COMPLETELY redone? all the models? Wow this is amazing new. Great I love Alex Hedstromes work.

GO DWARFS!

NakedFisherman
14-07-2005, 16:20
Hi everyone, first off apologies for my earlier post, i was wrong. please read on............

There WILL be a new Dwarf Army book, released at xmas.

The Dwarf range IS getting completely redone, which is the direct opposite of what i was told last week, when i was told that there was to be only 2 new plastic regiments, a new plastic war machine kit (that could be used to make different war machines), and the battallion box, but definately NO new characters.

I for one am really excited about this, a friend of mine has seen the new Warmachine designed by Alex Hedstrom and says they are the dogs bollox!!!

Any news on the Skaven getting redone afterward? New plastic clanrats would make my day. No, my month. Or year. Actually, probably a quarter since that's how long it'll take to paint 200 of them again. :P

DisturbeD_
14-07-2005, 23:45
i have been told by a store member who used to work up in the HQ and said a plastic bolt thrower was on it's way, i think this is pretty reliable as i think every dwarf army has at least one.

Voss
15-07-2005, 04:21
Any news on the Skaven getting redone afterward? New plastic clanrats would make my day. No, my month. Or year. Actually, probably a quarter since that's how long it'll take to paint 200 of them again. :P

Call me a crazy non-fanatic, but... couldn't you just keep using the 200 you already have painted?

@hastings- the new book will be released around the 25th of December? Or will it be the army box released about then, with the book & initial units following in january?

NakedFisherman
15-07-2005, 05:48
Call me a crazy non-fanatic, but... couldn't you just keep using the 200 you already have painted?

@hastings- the new book will be released around the 25th of December? Or will it be the army box released about then, with the book & initial units following in january?

Well yes, of course I could. But as soon as a new model is done it'll replace an old one. Besides, I enjoy painting a lot.

75hastings69
15-07-2005, 07:48
@hastings- the new book will be released around the 25th of December? Or will it be the army box released about then, with the book & initial units following in january?

Unsure of exact date, but i would expect it will be the army box at xmas, and then trickle releases afterwards (i.e. Army book, Plastic Regiments, Battallion box etc.)

75hastings69
15-07-2005, 07:50
Here is a wee bit more info on the new dwarf list......

longbeards will be an upgrade for normal warrior units and your heroes can all be placed on warshields in the front rank of a unit and gain +2 attacks.

Doomseekers are not in the new book.

more info as soon as i get it.

75hastings69
15-07-2005, 08:12
A bit more info. This time regarding new models.....

there are 6 plastic regiments/artillery peices and arround the same ammount of metal characters. there are also a couple of metal regiments that fill special and rare choices. All thats not changing is the gyrocoptor.

So there you go!

Narandil
15-07-2005, 09:04
Great! 6! thats quite a lot. WE only had 3

Yanos
15-07-2005, 09:14
This may have been covered already, but would it be fair to say that GW are likely to include in the new book/reprint such things as the Slayer Army list (with or without Doomseekers) and the Magic Items from the Albion campaign (Dwarfs got some didn't they?).

It can only make life easier if it all goes into the one book surely?

Narandil
15-07-2005, 09:18
I doubt it, it just takes up room for more important things

Yanos
15-07-2005, 09:34
Fair dos, but it would be, what, 4 pages at the most? Whatever it was they got after Albion could be tacked onto the end of their Common Magic Items (to save interfering with the Runes section), and the Slayer Army wasn't that big a section in SoC was it?

In terms of profit it may be counter-productive of course, as it'll mean there's no reason for Dwarf players to buy the Storm of Chaos book or 2001 Annual! That alone might preclude it from being a GW undertaking :D !

But it's not like they've done a full book reprint as yet in 6th Ed is it? Uncharted territory in a way, so who knows.....?

Narandil
15-07-2005, 09:39
There will almost definately be a slayer list in the back of the book, possibly they might make a big deal out of it and have a whole section. Especially if slayers become plastic (fingers crossed) I highly doubt they will include the albion magic items though. But you never know................

Yanos
15-07-2005, 09:54
I've just managed to track down the Albion Magic Items online, and Dwarfs only ever got one of them. Although it's already online here (http://us.games-workshop.com/games/gaming/treasures.pdf) I don't think I'll risk getting Modded by posting its rules :D . It's not very involved, so it would be easy to add in I'd imagine.

Narandil
15-07-2005, 10:38
I suppose it might reappear anyway back on topic,
any new units?

75hastings69
15-07-2005, 10:42
will try to find out this afternoon.

Narandil
15-07-2005, 10:54
Great :D where from (or is it secret..... :eek: )

75hastings69
15-07-2005, 11:06
A bit more for you, although my contact is being rather secretive about new units, he will tell me about new minis.........

box warriors/longbeards plastic
box war machine plastic
thunderers and crossbowmen plastic

no plastic slayers (but three new metal blisters)
believe goblin hewer is a rare option, but no doomseekers.

75hastings69
15-07-2005, 11:07
(or is it secret..... :eek: )

Yes it is ;)

Scactha
15-07-2005, 11:32
believe goblin hewer is a rare option, but no doomseekers.

Doomseekers are not in the new book.
:confused:

Narandil
15-07-2005, 11:38
still at least we've got the goblin hewer :D will it be rare and a hero do you think?

Odin
15-07-2005, 11:48
This is a bit of speculation really, but does anyone else expect certain units to have the Dogs of War special rule. After all, Ogres were special in the Dogs of War Ravening Hordes list, and now you can take 4 different ogre units as Dogs of War. You can take Dwarfs as Special Choices in a DoW army list as well, so it makes sense to do the same thing. I'm expecting...

Warriors (not upgraded to Longbeards)
Crossbowmen
possibly Rangers


...to have the DoW special rule. Perhaps even Slayers, as most armies can take Long Drong's Slayer Pirates, and normal slayers will take any excuse to get into a good scrap. Might be a bit unbalancing though, so perhaps that's a bit unlikely (though if they took up 2 rare slots like Maneaters do that wouldn't be so bad).

lorelorn
15-07-2005, 11:50
Surely the goblin hewer would be a special character, since it comes with one. The current crop of Dwarf specials are hardly used as it is, and if they are adding shield-borne as a character upgrade that probably frees up a slot right there.

Narandil
15-07-2005, 11:51
I *****y hope not! that would be aweful!!! I heard a lot of rumours that we won't get to have DOW but nothing like that :(

Odin
15-07-2005, 12:05
I *****y hope not! that would be aweful!!! I heard a lot of rumours that we won't get to have DOW but nothing like that

Er, I take it that was in response to my post? In which case, I think the DoW rule is a good sign. I am waiting for new DoW rules before I start another army. The use of the DoW rule in Kislev and Ogre rules looks like progress to me.

One of the main reasons that GW havent done DoW is that there is no real focus, and they want to have a coherent army list rather than just a random collection of units. In addition, if they published a DoW army book which included troops from other armies (such as Dwarfs or Ogres) and then changes the rules when re-doing the parent army book (i.e. changing the relentless rule for dwarfs or the bull charge rule for ogres), then the DoW book would be rendered inaccurate and out of date.

What seems likely is that if and when Warhammer Armies: Dogs of War is released, it will focus on human mercenaries from Tilea and to a certain extent Estalia. Other troops such as dwarfs, ogres and marauders will most likely be made available via the DoW rule.

If I'm right, the downside of this will be that DoW players will need to buy the relevant army book in order to field more exotic troop types. If you just want to field a couple of Ogre units this is no great problem. If you want to field every unusual troop type you can get your hands on it will be more of a financial burden. The upside will be that DoW finally get a focus and a new army book.

So, like I say, I will be very surprised (and disappointed) if there are not a couple of Dwarf units with the DoW special rule.

Narandil
15-07-2005, 13:05
hmmmm i hope not. (I've calmed down now) It was all right for ogres coz they were new and we didn't know what to expect. With dwarves they are too well know to open their core to other armies.
Anyway any news of garagrim ironfist. Such a great model i hope he appears in the new list :D

Odin
15-07-2005, 16:23
With dwarves they are too well know to open their core to other armies.

Er, they already have! Dwarfs are available as Special choices in a DoW army, and therefore as rare choices in any army except Chaos Dwarfs, Wood Elves, High Elves and Orcs & Goblins. They can be used to make Crossbowmen or Warriors. All I am suggesting is that it makes more sense to give them the DoW rule to match this, and therefore they can be removed from the core DoW list. This would not change what you are able to do with them.

The other units I identified - Rangers and Slayers - are not currently available as Dogs of War, but I was simply speculating that they may also be potential recipients of the DoW rule. I can see that might be controversial, and I don't know if I'd like it. But the crossbowmen and warriors are already Dogs of War.

NakedFisherman
15-07-2005, 16:28
Here is a wee bit more info on the new dwarf list......

longbeards will be an upgrade for normal warrior units and your heroes can all be placed on warshields in the front rank of a unit and gain +2 attacks.

Doomseekers are not in the new book.

more info as soon as i get it.

I assume this is due to the bearers of the shield being unable to attack?

75hastings69
15-07-2005, 16:58
a little more info............

most of the units get a tweak thunderers cant move and shoot but are always +1 to hit

Voss
15-07-2005, 17:23
So they' re 4+ at long range? Fair trade. (I always wondered if the move & shoot was an oversight anyway).

I don't understand the +2 attacks for being on the warshield. Where do the attacks come from? Unless the shield bearers are kicking people in the shin, and the hero takes advantage of the distraction. But the seems beneath dwarfish dignity.

@Odin. You're looking at it the wrong way. The traditional dwarves in the Dwarf army list aren't dogs of war. Dwarven mercenaries that go out and join DoW regiments become dogs of war. Just like the heavy cavalry in the DoW list aren't Empire (or Bretonnian) Knights. They're generics, similar to listings in the appropriate army book, but not the same unit.
Also remember, just because you want to see a new DoW Tilea focused, it doesn't mean that GW is going to do it that way. So they aren't going to insert things into major army books just to set up the plan you want.

Odin
15-07-2005, 18:47
@Odin. You're looking at it the wrong way. The traditional dwarves in the Dwarf army list aren't dogs of war. Dwarven mercenaries that go out and join DoW regiments become dogs of war. Just like the heavy cavalry in the DoW list aren't Empire (or Bretonnian) Knights. They're generics, similar to listings in the appropriate army book, but not the same unit.
Also remember, just because you want to see a new DoW Tilea focused, it doesn't mean that GW is going to do it that way. So they aren't going to insert things into major army books just to set up the plan you want.

Er, they are the same dwarfs, with pretty much exactly the same rules, it's just dwarfs who have wandered off to make their fortune. And I'm not saying they should do this because it's what I want them to do - it's what I guessed GW are doing based on rumours, games developers' statements, and the logical pattern which seems to be emergingin the past year or so. And now I think that's what they're doing, I like it. Of course, I may be utterly wrong (but that is a very rare ocurrence ;) ).

Don't forget that the current list is just a get-you-by list, intended to cover all the bases. That is why it has so many generic troop types. But games developers have hinted that one of the reasons for the delay in the DoW book is that they feel the army was unfocused and lacking a unified theme - they just didn't know where to go with it because you have so many different potential mercenaries in the Warhammer World - far too many for one army book (even if you don't take into account the Regiments of Renown).

The pattern I see emerging is that, GW seem to be gradually replacing the options to give them the option to release a DoW book based around Tilea once they have rules in place to allow the use of more exotic troops - Ogres, Kislevites, (Dwarfs?). For example, the generic Light Cavalry and Heavy Cavalry (without barding) were partially intended to cover Kislevite Horse Archers and Winged Lancers. Now GW have specific rules for Kislevites. There is also no need to cover Ogres in the main DoW book now that OK has been released. Similarly, there are now three regiments of renown in the Lustria book, so no need to include them in the DoW book either.

I think GWs plan is to give themselves the option ofhaving the DoW book focus on a core, mainly human army (they have strongly hinted at this in the past), and provide a number of other DoW and RoR units from other sources. For that reason, I suspect we will see the trend continue and at the very least see Dwarf Warriors and Crossbowmen get the DoW rule. This means that you can continue to use Dwarfs in your DoW army with virtually no change to the rules, while at the same time freeing up space in the DoW book when they get around to it. I also expect that Chaos Marauders will be given the DoW rule when the Hordes of Chaos book is re-done (not for a while yet I assume!).

Like I say, this is my theory about what GW intend to do. And it sounds like a good idea to me. If I'm wrong, sue me. :p

Narandil
15-07-2005, 20:39
Gav Thorpe himself said that there were too many ogres trotting around to indroduce new DoW units in this edition. (on dystarts i think)

Voss
15-07-2005, 21:11
Ogres and Kislev don't exactly make a pattern. (Particularly since the Kislev contingent isn't a full army. Its something for them to do other than be Empire allies.)

Ogres got the DoW status since being mercenaries and travelling is a big part of the background. (That and they wanted to make sure the got extra sales off this new range). Dwarves don't have the fluff or the need to establish the range in Fantasy.

As for the DoW eventually getting bits and pieces of all sorts of armies: I don't see it. All sort of balance issues crop up and start running around like gremlins. Particularly if they have all the options the unit has in its own army. Very easily broken and min/maxed to any situation. Thats a far cry from the 'focused' army you're suggesting they want to make.

Odin
15-07-2005, 22:42
As for the DoW eventually getting bits and pieces of all sorts of armies: I don't see it.

But they already have got bits and pieces of all sorts of armies - it would just be a different way of organising it.

I could well be entirely wrong about this. But I don't see what balance issues exist in this particular case - the Dwarfs in the DoW list are able to do everything the warriors and crossbowmen can in the Dwarf book and more (theones in the DoW list have more flexibility in their weapon options). So actually it would be marginally more balanced to do what I suggested.

Only time will tell if my theory is correct I guess.

Griefbringer
15-07-2005, 22:46
I could well be entirely wrong about this. But I don't see what balance issues exist in this particular case - the Dwarfs in the DoW list are able to do everything the warriors and crossbowmen can in the Dwarf book and more

Yes but the ones in the Dwarf book have cheaper musicians!

If the price of the musicians would be lowered for the DoW dwarf units, they would soon start looking more like symphonic orchestras! :D

Darkfang74
18-07-2005, 05:28
I am very muh liking all that I'm hearing!!!!

Question:

Theres 3 new plastic regiments....

is the Warrior plastics/ Long beard platics in heavy armor??????


PLEASE SAY YES!!!!!!!!!!

Jericho
19-07-2005, 04:44
The pattern I see emerging is that, GW seem to be gradually replacing the options to give them the option to release a DoW book based around Tilea once they have rules in place to allow the use of more exotic troops - Ogres, Kislevites, (Dwarfs?). For example, the generic Light Cavalry and Heavy Cavalry (without barding) were partially intended to cover Kislevite Horse Archers and Winged Lancers. Now GW have specific rules for Kislevites. There is also no need to cover Ogres in the main DoW book now that OK has been released. Similarly, there are now three regiments of renown in the Lustria book, so no need to include them in the DoW book either.

I think GWs plan is to give themselves the option ofhaving the DoW book focus on a core, mainly human army (they have strongly hinted at this in the past), and provide a number of other DoW and RoR units from other sources. For that reason, I suspect we will see the trend continue and at the very least see Dwarf Warriors and Crossbowmen get the DoW rule. This means that you can continue to use Dwarfs in your DoW army with virtually no change to the rules, while at the same time freeing up space in the DoW book when they get around to it. I also expect that Chaos Marauders will be given the DoW rule when the Hordes of Chaos book is re-done (not for a while yet I assume!).

Like I say, this is my theory about what GW intend to do. And it sounds like a good idea to me. If I'm wrong, sue me. :pA few observations:

First, I have to say that one observation gives you a point, two give you a line, and three or more give a pattern. Right now there isn't enough Army Book DoW stuff to draw a reliable conclusion.

Kislev isn't an army book, it's a Chronicles article same as DoW. They can't be lumped in with full armies because they aren't designed as one, and Dogs of War certainly can be [and mine do quite well, even with less than ideal army lists (bought most of the stuff in 5th ed. days :D)].

Ogres also are an exception rather than a rule, IMO, simply because their background suits the wandering mercenary thing better than most other races (well, nonhuman races anyway). They're a lot more common than other races in the Old World, way more common than Dwarves, Elves, or anybody else except maybe Skaven that people don't know are there.

Second major point, DoW Marauders aren't Chaos Marauders, they're Norse Marauders. Big difference. That's why they were frenzied rather than marked.

And seriously, who in their right mind would hire Chaos worshippers into any other army anyway? :p

Darkfang74
19-07-2005, 05:30
Chaos Dwarfs? lol

Odin
19-07-2005, 09:09
Second major point, DoW Marauders aren't Chaos Marauders, they're Norse Marauders. Big difference.

Er, no they're the same thing - the Norse worship Chaos, hence the Norse Marauders ARE Chaos Marauders. At least that's how I understand it.

This really has got away from the point hasn't it! I have to say, if they can get some good plastics and make the Dwarf rules slightly more tactically flexible, I'd be pretty tempted to get an army. Just so long as the crossbowmen are actually using their weapons rather than posing with them!

Darkfang74
19-07-2005, 18:30
no the norse are an actual people. There are norse dwarfs as well. They live along the northern coats of the empire. They are not the Kurgan and marauders of the areas north of Kislev, in the wastes.


And yes, I can say right now I haven't played a game with my dwarfs all of 6th ed. I like to have new minis and the single pose old plastics were bad and our latest plastics are even worse..... If I can see some of the new minis before the Boxed army comes out I can garentee I well buy at least 2 army boxxes!!!!! I just hope the limited ed fig is as nice as the last one. I swear that is the only decent dwarfs mini that came out. Although I really like King Alrik and the Ironbreaker champ as well.

But we are still needing a new runesmith. We have no armored runesmiths!!!!!
"Yes this little guy wearing a tattered robe um.. has a full suit of Gromril armor underneath, yah thats right.

If the new rumors are true and EVERYTHING is getting re-done minus the gyrocopter I well be a very happy puppy!

Valhallan
19-07-2005, 21:00
I for one hope dwarves get at least some new modles. They were my very fist GW modles and interest. Than I got mad cause i paint like poop and moved to 40k only to battle between armies. ahhh! Damn you GW! I want my money back! <falls to the ground> Why.....

Ya I heard at Xmas or around their will be new codex but no one knows about new modles.

Cherrystone
19-07-2005, 21:36
Just to add to the point about the Norse, they are a seperate people and country and have their own traditions, culture and gods, this is detailed in WFRP 2nd edition. The Northen areas of Norsca is more influenced by chaos and its these tribes that can be bracketed with chaos marauders.

Odin
19-07-2005, 21:44
They are not the Kurgan and marauders of the areas north of Kislev, in the wastes.

No, they're not Kurgan, they're Norse. They're still Chaos (according to the Hordes of Chaos book anyway - I know older fluff had the Norse as a separate race).

Guardsmen
19-07-2005, 23:05
why would gw re do the Ironbreaker models there fine.....? but the great weapons need work i think they just be some re done in diffent poses

Darkfang74
19-07-2005, 23:41
Well I for one think 2 of the iron breakers just look silly and crappy, the one with the huge thick runes on his belly armor and the one with the big chef hat shaped helmet, and whats up with the like side of a dwarfs head on the axe.... it looks like an old lady!

NakedFisherman
20-07-2005, 02:21
No, they're not Kurgan, they're Norse. They're still Chaos (according to the Hordes of Chaos book anyway - I know older fluff had the Norse as a separate race).

Not all Norse worhsip Chaos, but a great majority do. Some have Kislevite-esuqe traditions. In the Slaves to Darkness trilogy Jakob (who does worhsip Chaos, but that's beside the point) is half Norse and half Kislevite.

Darkfang74
20-07-2005, 02:58
I found out some more info on the Dwarf army box. There is indeed an army box and pre-orders well start for them in mid October!

Voss
20-07-2005, 04:09
the norse/chaos debate-

The Norse are all essentially chaos worshippers now (as opposed to previous editions). The Hordes book pushes it rather strongly, and the recent article on the Norse in Lustria hammer the point home. (US WD #307) There is even a sidebar in the article entitled the 'The Gods of the Norse'. The upshot of which is that while the Norse aren't always obvious about worshipping the Big Four like the Kurgan or Huns, the deities they do name are aspects of the Four.

75hastings69
20-07-2005, 06:32
Would you please take the Norse/Chaos debate somewhere else, this thread is for people who have questions/answers for/about the upcoming Dwarf range.

Thanks.

Darkfang74
20-07-2005, 16:05
Agreed, thank you 75hastings69, Any new words on anything Dwarf my man???

truthsayer
21-07-2005, 18:32
speaking with a gw manager today he said

interchangable runes are being dropped and there will be SET Runic weapons,

there will be no metal on anything dwarven ie. no wooden stock on cannon, no wooden wheels ETC to represent the lack of trees underground.

2 plastic boxsets. one for clansmen/longbeards/ironbreakers. one for thunderers and the newly named quarrelers.

Mostly plastic models. i think the only things still metal are flame cannon, slayers and a few other bits. yes that does mean a plastic gyrocopter!

Also he said that the batallion box will be released with the new dark elf one and will coincide with the release of the Macragge style game including Dwarfs and Orcs.

The Orc models will be having a makeover as they have been described as green monkeys. just the regiment set as far as i know.

and finally next years campaign WILL see the return of Nagash!

Galdust
21-07-2005, 19:44
This is beginning to sound very good. Almost to good to be belived... :eyebrows:

Where do the GW managers get all this information from? Did he say anything about WHEN GW will be releasing the new plastic models for Dwarfs?

BDJV
21-07-2005, 20:21
GW managers get a release list for a year in advance, so they can plan out events. It gets updated every few months. Managers do know alot about releases, they just aren't allowed to talk about it. There are allways a few with loose lips. :evilgrin:

truthsayer
21-07-2005, 21:04
well i think it was due more to the fact that i had asked him if he knew anything and told him about some of the things i had read on this great website (eg dwarf war machines being able to upgrade a crewman to an engineer) and he must of thought i knew enough anyway. He didnt give an exact date, it was more along the lines of "soon". He also said there will be a plastic giant but most people knew that anyway. Im looking forward to the dwarfs having new rules and models, the only thing that put me off was all that metal! now i can have all metal but in a different sense of the word.

Sir_Glonojad
21-07-2005, 22:07
Well, the concept of removing wood is quite interesting, and will move the Dwarfs more into the Steampunk they are already bordering. Many thanks for the info.

I have doubts, though, about Ironbreakers made from the same set as Clansmen - they are, after all, differently armpired (as, IIRC, they no longer have Mass Rune of Stone, and got Gromril armour instead). Of course, one could argue that the current models don't have gromril armour (which could have a build as a normal armour, just be made from gromril instead of steel) but something akin to a full plate, which doesn't match the rules, does it.

Quetzl
21-07-2005, 22:21
Dwarfs sound great!

Although if its true about Dark Elves Battalion getting released alongside the Dwarfen one, then they would also need a re-run with at least two new plastic sets, so I think this is very unlikely. Mainly because if you are correct then it should be Dwarfs shortly followed by Orcs and Goblins.

truthsayer
21-07-2005, 23:03
I'm not too sure how they will do it, they may release the New box game with dwarf's and goblins first to push the sales of the game, like they did with the macragge game with the tyranids. Then they could release the battalion along with the dark elves to really sell the dwarf's.

As for the regiment boxset, i think if they were to give the clansmen plate mail instead of chainmail, included heads with all encasing helmets and arms with hammers they could easily make ironbreakers. maybe they could include a sprue of full grown beards for the longbeards too.

Dargon
21-07-2005, 23:45
speaking with a gw manager today he said

interchangable runes are being dropped and there will be SET Runic weapons,

there will be no metal on anything dwarven ie. no wooden stock on cannon, no wooden wheels ETC to represent the lack of trees underground.

2 plastic boxsets. one for clansmen/longbeards/ironbreakers. one for thunderers and the newly named quarrelers.

Mostly plastic models. i think the only things still metal are flame cannon, slayers and a few other bits. yes that does mean a plastic gyrocopter!

Also he said that the batallion box will be released with the new dark elf one and will coincide with the release of the Macragge style game including Dwarfs and Orcs.

The Orc models will be having a makeover as they have been described as green monkeys. just the regiment set as far as i know.

and finally next years campaign WILL see the return of Nagash!Alot of this information sounds a little suspect...

How does a Store Manager know about future rules (the Rune items)?
How can there be only two plastic sets, yet almost the entire range be in plastic - for that matter, how can you have a Battalion with only two sets (unless he meant "Regiment" sets)?
How can the Dwarf Battalion Box co-incide with the Macragge style game when the Dwarfs are apparently due for release this Xmas, and the Macragge style set is tied to 7th Edition late in 2006?
If the Dark Elf Battalion is due for release together with the Dwarfs, why are we hearing so much about the Dwarfs, and nothing about the Dark Elves?

Oh, and next years campaign is always the return of Nagash :rolleyes: ;) .

Guess we'll have to wait for the next Games Day for all the conflicting rumours to be cleared up. When and where is the next one?

Just a thought...

NakedFisherman
22-07-2005, 03:31
This is beginning to sound very good. Almost to good to be belived... :eyebrows:

Where do the GW managers get all this information from? Did he say anything about WHEN GW will be releasing the new plastic models for Dwarfs?

They don't get it, they make it up.

As for no wooden stuff and 'steampunk style', you guys are crazy gits. Gav just wrote a book about Dwarfs and there's a fair share of wood in there. Why would Dwarfs have no wood? They can't brew beer in metal containers!

Griefbringer
22-07-2005, 10:00
They can't brew beer in metal containers!

Accidentally, don't most modern breweries actually use metal containers for brewing beer?

That said, I think proper dwarf way would be to make their beer containers from stone, so that they will truely endure!

Yanos
22-07-2005, 10:07
I second that confusion! Big bronze vats in most cases aren't they? Or possibly stainless steel....:eyebrows:

As a fluff idea I do like it though (no-wood Dwarves that is). Saying that, there'd have to be some useful alternative. Giant mushrooms anyone? :D

Griefbringer
22-07-2005, 11:56
Dwarves armed with giant mushrooms? That sounds disturbing!

Can we also have them riding giant purple locusts through a stormy sky? Preferably with Spinal Tap soundtrack playing on the background.

NakedFisherman
22-07-2005, 13:19
Accidentally, don't most modern breweries actually use metal containers for brewing beer?

That said, I think proper dwarf way would be to make their beer containers from stone, so that they will truely endure!

Oops, I was thinking of wine and whiskey. :P

At any rate, no bar is complete without wooden bar stools!

Darkfang74
22-07-2005, 17:01
I like the idea of metal frames for warmachines. I think it'd just look more Dwarven. Steel lasts longer then wood.

But the one thing stated above that I REALLY hope isn't true is the set runic items.....

the one thing that makes dwarves unique is the fact that we can make custom magic items. We have no wizards. With out custom magic items we'd just become tougher Empire armies with no knights and wizards.... WTF :confused:

Harky
22-07-2005, 17:16
Personaly I don't like the idea of no wood for dwarfes. What would they use to support all of their tunnels, not steel, and how would the fuel their forges. Sure, you could say coal... I just can't see it.

Sir_Glonojad
22-07-2005, 19:52
-> Griefbringer: But most of those that make good beer use wood ;). Still, I like the idea of stone tanks in a brewery very mych.
@ Harky: Why not steel? Steel is perfectly good for supporting tunnels, and much better than wood I dare say. I can anvision temporary (like mining) tunels being built from re-usable steel system support (akin to boarding / formwork systems ;) ), or an underground-like tubing for permanent constructions. :D

Griefbringer
22-07-2005, 21:05
Oops, I was thinking of wine and whiskey. :P


Actually, in modern times most of the wine is also made in containers of stainless steel - only the more expensive ones get matured in wooden barrels.

Wooden bar stools and drunken dwarves just don't go together - I would rather make my bar stools from granite if I knew there were some dwarves coming for a pint (or more likely a barrel).

Darkfang74
22-07-2005, 22:32
No dwarfs use lots of wood. and they have it every where due to guild traders and stuff. But I'm just thinking. Look at say any military now days. Do we have wood anywhere? or do we use metal on all war machines just because in war metal survives better. In WW1 all cannons evolved up to metal frames just because the wood would rot and crack and stuff.

I'd be happy with new minis, all metal or wood designed I care not.

NakedFisherman
23-07-2005, 04:06
Wooden bar stools and drunken dwarves just don't go together - I would rather make my bar stools from granite if I knew there were some dwarves coming for a pint (or more likely a barrel).

You're a masochist?

NakedFisherman
23-07-2005, 04:07
No dwarfs use lots of wood. and they have it every where due to guild traders and stuff. But I'm just thinking. Look at say any military now days. Do we have wood anywhere? or do we use metal on all war machines just because in war metal survives better. In WW1 all cannons evolved up to metal frames just because the wood would rot and crack and stuff.

I'd be happy with new minis, all metal or wood designed I care not.

Erm, no. Wood was still used for a very, very long time. Even up until the mid-70s for many weapons in the US military. The only reason it's outclassed is because of synthetics -- not by metal.

And WW1 artillery definitely had wooden wheels and frames and stuff.

Edit: Bah, double post.

Darkfang74
23-07-2005, 06:30
Oh i know. But metal became more promonent. Wood has never been doen away with fully. I'm just saying it became much more widely used.

Griefbringer
23-07-2005, 08:17
You're a masochist?

Once the dwarves would start bashing each others hard heads with the wooden stools, there would not be much left of them. Solid granite stools might have a chance of surviving.

Harky
23-07-2005, 11:09
Yeah, I can see the comercial: Build to last, you can crack a dwarf head and still polish diamonds. :D

Besides I think wood is more wiable to support mines because it is easier to replace than steel. And I think steel would still rust unless they would use gromril and I doubt that. :cheese:

Griefbringer
23-07-2005, 11:32
Besides I think wood is more wiable to support mines because it is easier to replace than steel.

What about using stout granite blocks for the supports? Made to last, and easy to obtain underground.

Darkfang74
23-07-2005, 19:32
Ahs anyone heard if the roumor about the custom rune items beingremoved is true? I sure hope not, I have to be able to make my bleedin runes!!!!!!!

Boomstar
30-07-2005, 08:20
Well after a really long hiatus (3 years?) I'm be playing my dwarfs again and now I see this :eek: . Pretty exciting, I was thinking of adding some thunderers and a couple bolt throwers and a lord to get my army up to 2k and the new plastics will definetly make it easier(Can't say I was crazy about the current bolt thrower model anyway). I'll just have to be patient waiting for them though ;) .

I for one really don't think the complete line needs a revamp though the flame cannon is a nice model and the ironbreakers really aren't bad either. But seeing some new slayers and hammerers (especially so) will definetly be nice.Any word if there will be plastic miners?

Odin
30-07-2005, 10:10
"Ahs anyone heard if the roumor about the custom rune items beingremoved is true? I sure hope not, I have to be able to make my bleedin runes!!!!!!!"

I seriously doubt it - the runes have been a mainstay of the Dwarf list for about 12 years. I can't see them getting rid of them.

Freak Ona Leash
30-07-2005, 11:44
We could of course be getting set runic items in additiom to our custom runic items but I doubt that very much as well.

cultist
30-07-2005, 14:42
I heard from a gw manager that there will be a new dwarf unit though cant remember the name

Darkfang74
30-07-2005, 18:07
A new unit would be neat. But I have thought this over a long tme and can't think of an area where dwarfs would need a new unit. Although it may be say a runesmith led unit of rune smiths in training that would work sorrta like an anvil of doom or add dispel dice or something odd like that.

Games Day is today, lets see what info pops up tonight. I sure hope GW shares something new!!!!!

75hastings69
30-07-2005, 18:45
I will share something new very soon with regard to our little bearded friends........

Darkfang74
31-07-2005, 05:28
We're waiting :P

Nazguire
31-07-2005, 06:15
I will share something new very soon with regard to our little bearded friends........


"Waiting, waiting, still waiting precious."

It's very mean to tell us you know something that we don't know as a post. Almost as bad as Inquisitor Engel :mad: :p

Freak Ona Leash
31-07-2005, 10:49
Quick Sylass! Smack him over the head with your banstick till he talks! :p

Darkfang74
31-07-2005, 17:28
NO banning! We need him! I NEED HIM! (Cuts off Freak Ona Leash's hand and 75hastings69 fries his ass with force-lightning and he pitches out of the window to the city below...)

*kneels before 75hastings69* What have you heard, master?

XD yay Star Wars

Freak Ona Leash
31-07-2005, 19:17
Oh, and for anypne who hasnt heard, we are now 100% confirmed about the Dwarfs being next. And the roumor is that we are getting a heavily armoreed plastic regiment, Thunderer rehiment and plastic Cannon. We all knew that of course, but it is noice to have confirmatione. Oh, and Colin Grayson is making the new Dwarfs. All confirmed by GW at Chicago GD, reported here by NakedFisherman first, Freak second. Now children of the Stunties, lets all thank NF and his reporting skillz...

Darkfang74
01-08-2005, 00:57
Agreed. I'd still like to see some concept art and or greens of the new minis. We had Ogre pics 9 months before teh relese and WE many months before as well. Are there any visuals at all?

taer
01-08-2005, 01:04
Maybe this is the little surprise 75hastings69 has in store for us. Or he just likes to torment us.

Darkfang74
01-08-2005, 01:09
Well if he keeps tormenting us , I'll cast level 1 magic missle. I'l lcast it into the darkness :P

taer
01-08-2005, 02:11
"If there's any girls there, I want to do them!"

Erm, sorry...yeah. Dwarves. I hear they have beards...in more than one way now (since the studio, and more importantly Gav, are avid dwarf fanatics

boogle
01-08-2005, 02:53
Ahs anyone heard if the roumor about the custom rune items beingremoved is true? I sure hope not, I have to be able to make my bleedin runes!!!!!!!
that wold go against what they are trying to do with the Armies IMHO, it would make Dwarfs less customisable that Choas or Bretonnians even

Darkfang74
01-08-2005, 06:12
Dwarf fanatics..... *Pictures Garagrim with a shorter beard then shudders* x.x please please please no nekkid dwarfs lol

Freak Ona Leash
02-08-2005, 23:09
Sorry to bring this back up but I just got some new rumors. From Warhammer.org I think these were from, but suppodedly a person questioned Gav himself and got these answers. The new Dwarf bok isnt going to hold much new anything. The slayer characters are probally getting the SoC slayer skills, Longbeards are being made better/lower in points. Organ Gun is actually being made worth it. Hopes this helps y'all :)

Xisor
03-08-2005, 00:12
On the idea of Dwarf Fanatics, don't panic about that mental image! Dwarfen Fanatics would make a perfect addition to the Dwarfen Thong.

:p

Xisor

Darkfang74
03-08-2005, 06:03
You mean Doom Seekers? I would love to have doom seekers in my non salyer list lol

truthsayer
09-08-2005, 18:03
Here's some bad news guys, one of the staff from the gw near me left the company and i was talking to him on his last day. he said dwarfs would be in box sets of 12 figs when they are re-released! can anyone spell ex-tor-tion.

he did say though that they were going to release the new game with a rulebook half as thick as the one we have now. The big thick one will be re-released the same size but with all the errata and changes made to it, just a 6.5 version.

Freak Ona Leash
09-08-2005, 18:29
:eek: :mad: I'm soooooooo going to kill GW now...

Darkfang74
09-08-2005, 19:14
Lets hope its not true. If so this may be my last Warhammer army. It's your own fault GW. Don't let your greed allow you to mess with your players

Boomstar
09-08-2005, 20:24
Oh this doesn't surprise me at all I really doubt the warrior box will come in 12, but I fully expect there to be seperate ranged dwarfs box set of 12 in lighter armor(Crossbows and Thunderers that is).As there 12/14 points a piece now, and thats probably not gonna change much with the new book.

GW's price strategy seems to completely focused on point values in the game rather then the quanity of models, because they know they can get away with it :( .Anyway guess we will see.

corben_da
10-08-2005, 09:32
basicly, dwarf army list is really good! Miniatures suck, they're most metal... and i think that they will do miniature range bit upgraded, more plastic and some new parts and torsos etc. nothing big i think! doomseekers wont be coming to normal dwarf list they're all storm of chaos stuff like all other armies on that book!

Sir_Glonojad
10-08-2005, 10:27
Funny, I seem to have quite a contrary opinion ;) - a poor army list for a great miniatures range (minus plastics). :D

Darkfang74
10-08-2005, 17:41
I liked some of the rules and love some of the minis. But things need changed in all areas. I look forward to it!

Sir_Glonojad
10-08-2005, 19:49
If the models worked fine for our fathers, they can work fine for us. :p

Darkfang74
10-08-2005, 22:40
Our fathers didn't have monkey arms! The old plastics are shoddy manling craftmenship! We need some good old dwarf work and get some DECENT minis. :P

Sir_Glonojad
11-08-2005, 07:21
I mean 3rd - 4th edition models :p

Darkfang74
12-08-2005, 23:40
Thats better :P

BUT I WANT NEW MINIS! lol