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Autobot HQ
29-01-2007, 13:09
Self-explanitory this one - as we are looking at the end of the Warseer Cup coming up, how would we like to organise the games? I'm happy with one league, everyone plays everyone over ten weeks, so each season would be a 'Quater' with the four quarters making up the Warseer Year - With everyone having to play thirteen plus games, it gives people just under a week to play a game. This would then allow us the final ten weeks for the next Warseer Cup, with the odd two weeks left for Christmas off.

Upside:
+ Regular controlled games every week
+ You know you have time limits and can arrange things ahead of time

Downside:
- Leaves no time for specialist tournaments or freeplay against anyone else
- Means new players have to wait upto ten weeks before they come in, and then be minimum twelve matches behind

... I'm sure there's more positives and negatives but I'd like y'all to think of these yourselves as it helps the creative process (TRANSLATE: LAZY). Also, one more thing to think of is do we have it open so that you have to play every team once, but the order doesnt matter, or that you'll play in a set order as determined randomly. I like random personally but I'm open to suggestions.

EDIT: So far we have 14 active teams, with two yet to sign up for the new league - Thunder, Nutters and Warriors are all inactive, but the Nutters have already signed up for the new league - All three of these members have been notified that if by the 9th of Feb they have not responded they will be removed from the league. At the moment it is best to assume that to play all the teams you're looking at thirteen games

Many Kind Regards,
A-HQ
Lord of Warseer Blood Bowl

PhrollikK
29-01-2007, 14:37
I would like the league to be played in "periods" of abt 8 games per period (or 4-10 games depending on amount of players and if everyone is set to play everyone else). Though making it more than 10 games is abit risky coz if inactivity starts setting in it makes it all so boring and also new players get a chance to join up inbetween periods. See example below:

10 teams start of Spring season A: 8 matches played (8 weeks, players play all except one). Spring Season A ends and in comes Warseer Cup2! After the cup Spring Season B starts, new players come in, inactive players are booted and 8 games are played again to find the total winner of both seasons.

Autobot HQ
29-01-2007, 14:59
My other option was something similar - Quarters ending with a tournament for the top four/eight players whilst the others cool down with friendlies. I will point out that the Warseer Cup will only take place once a year - It's the superbowl of our league and they'll be other things to win, but you win the Warseer Cup you own that honour for a while (or until there is a rebellion and you overthrow me at least...).

If I had more tournaments it'd be something like:

The Springtime Slaughterbowl
The Summerslam Slugfest
The Fall-out Feud
The Winter Warbowl

... Or something like that :)

th0r
29-01-2007, 15:55
I think your idea is good. Play every team with the games being preset (this makes sure you don't "skill up" your team playing weak opponents) and ending with a quick tournament for the top 8 (1 plays 8, 2-7 and so on).

tenpole
29-01-2007, 16:48
Could you make it multiple choice so I can just say option A[dice0]

Autobot HQ
29-01-2007, 17:01
No, work for it.

Keravin
29-01-2007, 17:20
I think the one league will put off newbies. There's nothing encouraging new participation. Come in and you too can get creamed by teams potentially 100 TR/TS higher than you.

th0r
29-01-2007, 17:32
New teams would be able to play other new teams while there waiting for the next tournament though. Plus people are going to be eliminated first week (7 as of now), so it shouldn't be that big a deal.

Keravin
29-01-2007, 18:09
Based on what was said this wouldn't be a KO tourney so yes it would still be a big deal.

th0r
29-01-2007, 18:35
Right but the idea was to have a ko tournament at the end which would free up people. Plus since you would be playing around 8 games before a new team would get skilled enough to compete. Whats the point of having a seperate division with only 1-2 people in it?

Keravin
29-01-2007, 18:50
Sure if you only have one team each.

tenpole
29-01-2007, 19:59
If new teams cant wait till the league table game is over then tough. One team only. I have only played three games now and am I worried about playing in the league now? No.

th0r
29-01-2007, 20:05
Yeah I agree, if tenpole and my elves can compete as new teams against skilled teams then I don't see there being much of a problem.

tenpole
29-01-2007, 20:19
And not only that, look at how thor's team won the Christmas eve cup after shortly starting up.

Keravin
29-01-2007, 21:02
The point is that we aren't just here to have the current players sorted. What will happen is that without attracting new players or without providing a decent time for everyone what will happen is that more and more players will drop out and you end up just talking to yourself.

I'm saying this as one of the original players and I really don't see why a new player would come in to this friendly league where there will play their first game and conceivably get annihilated. It's supposed to be a fun game and just because you're happy with it doesn't mean it'll encourage anyone else to play.

tenpole
29-01-2007, 21:15
Any more than 16 would need a second league anyway. I am happy with the league as it is. I don't want to keep creating teams and retiring them just because someone new enters.

th0r
29-01-2007, 21:19
Well before we move onto better things (more tournaments, bring in divisions ect.) we need to get our current state sorted out. This means having 16 active players, which at the moment we dont have (but are very close). Once we have a good base to work around we can explore opening another division or some sort of alternative that would make it easier for people to get into. But for now, new players in our league will have to make due like everybody else did. I think the games are quite fun and competitive. Don't believe me? ask Benny, who not only knocked me out but also got fredox (and maybe Gres?). As long as a coach knows what s/he's doing they will do fine.

Keravin
29-01-2007, 21:30
So what about newbies then? I cannot see how you will reach your 16 if you don't encourage them. What will happen is that what you have now will be the apex and it will dwindle. We have two new teams now. The ones that we had prior to this all against each other cup... well 2 have gone and one that played hasn't transferred to the new league. That's not increasing the numbers.

From what's being said here it's a case of it's alright by me so tough to anyone else.

th0r
29-01-2007, 21:35
Really? cause all I see from this thread is you bitching and everyone else trying to make this league better. I've actually been playing games with some of our newer members (with teams out of league) to make sure they can compete so there teams don't get destroyed first game. But yeah your right I don't care about anyone but me. :wtf:

tenpole
29-01-2007, 21:38
One that played? Which team was that?
The two that have gone never played in the tournament, crymson never even turned up on fumbbl for ages.

Keravin
29-01-2007, 21:38
I'm not the one saying "new players in our league will have to make due like everybody else did."

Everyone else didn't have to. We used to have multi level tourneys and we used to have multiple teams to encourage play at the lower levels.

Sorry for having an alternative opinion. I only have the team with the highest TS. It'd be very easy to just mutilate some teams rather than trying to get new people in.

Keravin
29-01-2007, 21:40
Waywyrd warriors isn't in the new league. One of those that didn't play is in the new league.

th0r
29-01-2007, 21:41
Everyone else didn't have to. We used to have multi level tourneys and we used to have multiple teams to encourage play at the lower levels.


Everyone who? You, Yorkie, Gres, Skinny? I'm not saying don't voice your opinion but you got to stop this "me against the world" attitude. A stronger league is in everyones best interest and anything helpful will be considerd.

Edit: The Waywyrd warriors where invited into the new league along with everybody else but have not as of yet accepted.

tenpole
29-01-2007, 21:45
So what, we all ditch our loved teams and get new ones each time someone joins.

Keravin
29-01-2007, 21:45
You started when there were two leagues. You have even played when there were multiple teams per players with a high level and a lower level team.

Not the situation we are in now where we are losing new players and just being left with mostly the same people playing ever increasing teams that will just exacerbate the situation.

tenpole
29-01-2007, 21:47
And Ixajin has told you, he has not joined the new warseer because his team was too weak to compete?

EDit: revised with ?

th0r
29-01-2007, 21:52
And Ixajin has told you he has not joined the new warseer because his team was too weak to compete.


I actually didn't know that. You know it's really not my fault if somebody doesn't play games and skill there team before a tournament. At the time (before warseer cup started) there were plenty of low level teams to play against.

tenpole
29-01-2007, 21:53
I wanted to play against him and the other to boost my own new orc team up.

EmperorsChamp01
30-01-2007, 01:15
Hey i have a question. I live in japan and we are Quite a few hours a head of the other people that are on the league. So how will i play the games???

th0r
30-01-2007, 01:52
Your best bet is to get on MSN, or message people on fumbbl or here to schedule a date/time

tenpole
30-01-2007, 07:56
Hey i have a question. I live in japan and we are Quite a few hours a head of the other people that are on the league. So how will i play the games???

I will play you in the morning, depending on work how about this weekend for a friendly?

Keravin
30-01-2007, 07:57
Your best bet is to load up irc and use fumbbl irc channels and gamefinder there. You should be able to find opponents that way. If you need any help then just ask or look in the Help sections on Fumbbl (which are actually really good).

EmperorsChamp01
30-01-2007, 11:29
Hey Tenpole sure man i would love to get stomped. But its all cool man because its a game. But dont go crying to your mommy if i whip you! :D just kidding. Yea all i need to do is find out who i play each week and make sure that they get ahold of me or me get a hold of them. And I am on MSN My email is
Captamericafan@hotmail.com

Add me if you want.

Autobot HQ
30-01-2007, 12:16
Dude, you just got serious bonus points for being a Cap fan. Like, seriously I want to just give you the Cup now. 'Cept I'm going to win it next week myself anyway ;)

If I roll more than 15, I so rule[dice0]
GODDAM I RULE! WOAH!

PhrollikK
30-01-2007, 13:11
In all fairness it seems the issue here is TR/TS diffrences between teams. I'm not too worried playing a team that's 100+ on me in TR, but I can understand newer players hesitations in doing this. This can be a major deterrant for new players and recruitment could suffer. Also, even though some teams are at abt 200 TR, they can and probably will go upto 250:ies in no time, and so this will create contention... So what are the solutions?

a) Dump the teams that are 200+ and create new ones (I don't like that one)
b) Teams dump players, coaches etc. to get below say 175 (maybe, but hard to sell :p )
c) create two separate leagues: Rookies and vets (most workable)

Whadda ya say?

Autobot HQ
30-01-2007, 15:13
For anyone pushing for a seperate league? Not going to happen. Seperate Tournements set up in the same league, possibly, but there wont be a seperation and players will still only have one team.

The only way I'd consider allowing people more than one team is on the argreement of all all the league that once both of their teams occupied the same TR brackets (which haven't even been decided ... hell, I'm making this idea up as I go along), then the first team that was in that bracket is removed from the league.

There wont be two leagues. So speaketh God ... Well, close enough

Ixajin
30-01-2007, 19:24
And Ixajin has told you he has not joined the new warseer because his team was too weak to compete.

First: Please do not spread false statements. I have not been playing recently due to changes in my family, specificly getting ready for a new baby due any day.

Second: I never said JACK about not playing because my team is week. My team is weak due to my lack in playing, and so be. If I had the time to play I would do so, even with my weak team, as I play for fun, if means I lose, so be it.

tenpole
30-01-2007, 19:29
There should have been a question mark at the end of that statement. It was asking a question as I was on the side that us (My team has low tr as well) coaches are not afraid on any challenge. Except ogres.

Ixajin
30-01-2007, 19:50
There should have been a question mark at the end of that statement. It was asking a question as I was on the side that us (My team has low tr as well) coaches are not afraid on any challenge. Except ogres.

Fair enough. And as I said before, I could care less about being a weak team, I play for the fun of it.

th0r
30-01-2007, 20:16
Not the situation we are in now where we are losing new players and just being left with mostly the same people playing ever increasing teams that will just exacerbate the situation.


Just so everybody realizes under the new regime we have added 2 new players while dropping two dead weights (people who havn't showed up or contacted anyone for months). Right now we have one invitation pending and two people who we are still working on getting interested in fumbbl. End result: Were doing very well. My first goal was to get 16 strong players (by strong I mean good attendance) and we have almost achieved that. Honestly, without being full of myself, I don't think you give enough credit to the work that the Warseer League staff is doing. It may not always be visible but we are working on the league all the time.

Just as an aside, if you'd like to help us out you could put a link in your signiture to our forum. Getting more people aware of the league can only help.

Ixajin
30-01-2007, 20:54
I forgot to mention, I did recieve and accept the invite to the new league. Just be aware for the short term if I am not needed to fill a spot in a tourny I will be staying out of tournys. That said, if by some chance I am online at the same time as anyone else, please feel free to hit me up for a game. I will be installing Fummble on to my laptop in the next couple of days which will provide me more flexability to my playing schedule.

tenpole
30-01-2007, 21:32
So there Kez.

Keravin
30-01-2007, 21:35
Wow it really does matter to you to try and prove an alternative opinion wrong.

Ixajin had made his position quite clear without you trying to score points.

Fun happy league.

th0r
30-01-2007, 22:04
Okay, lets stop the personal attacks and move on can we? Lets try to stop the negative stuff (i'm guilty too) and try to have some fun.

Autobot HQ
30-01-2007, 22:14
Both of you behave before I come kick your ass. Yeah, I said it.

:D

tenpole
30-01-2007, 22:35
Looking at Keravins team, I don't think he needs your help. Gulp!

LordSnotball
31-01-2007, 07:56
ok, my 2 cents here... as i'm one of the guys with a team that hasn't played a match and i have a different/ partially valid viewpoint...

-i missed my match with Gres due to work, otherwise i would have played my 1st match then. the TR difference is of no importance, because 4 handicaps can cripple a team. (if u want boring details about my work, just let me know).

-i plan to play my warseer team ONLY in tournaments, and not before or in between. i hate playing unranked games without purpose, and prefer to have extra objectives while playing a match. i have 2-3 tourney only teams that ive been working on for 1-2 years, and im proud of the accomplishment. my choice, my style, i play everyone when the time comes

-13 1-week rounds is designed for ppl with lots of time on their hands. i'd prefer to have 2 mixed divisions 6-7 players a piece, playing for 2 weeks a round. This is important for me coz occassionally i travel during the wkends for meetings etc, and will miss 1 weekend a month normally. as i play wkends it would mean that whenever i travel my team will end up missing a match, which in turn will spoil the tourney for everyone else

-in about 1 month time i might be able to play on fridays as well. this will make me more flexible for tourneys, but not yet.

-i log on occassionally between work, and that means that i can fit in 30 mins of play if necessary. so far i've only played 1 match spanning 5 days across the week due to my timetable, and my opponent cursed me all the way. instead i prefer to keep my 30mins for 1v1 matches, coz in 5-10 mins u have finished :)

Anyway, my point is don't worry yourselves about the low TR teams. as far as i'm concerned it a conscious choice... for the others, well, whoever complains put them up against my team, end of story...

-Snottie

tenpole
31-01-2007, 08:17
So far we have not found a coach who has complained about playing a higher TR. I do understand the theory behind it but their does not seem to be coaches frightened away by TR difference.

Edit: And no relevance to any of warseer bb but that order of the stick comic strip you guys pointed out when using quotes from the strip is great. I am really enjoying reading it, what a great discovery.

Autobot HQ
31-01-2007, 08:28
Order of the Stick rules man.

th0r
31-01-2007, 17:04
Just to add to the conversation. When I played against Ben, +strength really ended up being a big factor as im sure it was when he played against Fredox. So i'd have to say Snotball is 100% right.

As for Order of the Stick, this is absolutely the best comic going. 3 Updates a week and some pretty funny (nerdy) stuff. Go Elan !

Autobot HQ
31-01-2007, 21:18
Thog is the greatest. When he bashes the kleptomaniac rouge in with the door, and then wants ice cream? Genius. Sheer genius.

th0r
31-01-2007, 21:24
Thog is my second favorite. The comic were him and roy are fighting towards the elementals and roy is talking to him all intelligently and thog is just thinking "I like puppies" "Nale wont let thog have one cause he says i'm not responsible" is laughing on the floor hilarious.

Deng Ham
07-02-2007, 18:36
As a new player, joining the league. I'd like to join this discusion.

* I don't think it's a good idea to arrange fixed games on a regular basis. It will be too comitting and some players tend to want to play more ganes that others. And thus the ones not wanting to play so mutch drop out. Not having seen how the WBBL works, but experienc from various other spare time activities.

* The teams shoud most definitly be alowed to play inbetween turnaments. But not simultanious with a running turnament. But once they are out. It's free for all to play again.

* As fiew restrictions shoud be laid on coaches to whom and when they play there free matches. To encurages using the team and giving the team a personalitie and character.

* The teams (and I still suport the only one team pr player rule) in the league may only play other teams within the WBBL.

So my proposission is this:
* All teams are alowed to play as much or as little as they whant with whoever they want outside a turnament.
* Once a turnament is anounced. A pre turnemen regulation is in force. This can include not playing seam team two times in a row. A maximum number of games. And other regulations that will reduce the building of a team for a turnament. And avoid teams beeing left behind.
* The once a turnament have started there is no games played other than the turnament ones. But when a team i knocked out. It's once more free to do as it pleace.
[dice0]

Jet
07-02-2007, 19:02
We have had a mini-discussion trying to iron out some of the smaller rules for the league. I think this is what we came up with (I think it was th0r and Gres):

- The fixed league format would definitely be opt in, although I would heartily recommend as many as possible to join since the development of a league season almost cannot be beaten.

- Those who opt out are obviously free to play friendlies as they please, but don't expect others to be too pleased when if you bump your TR up to 250 by only playing elves.

- Also to this end, I believe a similar system to in R is needed, where you cannot play the same team in a friendly more than once in any period of 5 games. This of course discounts tournament and league games. This is to prevent weak teams being preyed upon too much and hopefully give all teams some friendly games.

- I think we should sort out what we're doing next season already. A top league with a round robin format for 8 teams works very well in my opinion. I haven't done a specific count but there's also the possibility of a smaller league running underneath as well.

Ok now that's those facets dealth with, I'll move on.

I was going to write up a detailed (impartial) match report for the Warseer Cup final, but unfortunately there is the slight possibility that I will not be able to see it. I was wondering if, in the case that I do miss it, some kind volunteer could be ready at the match and send me the key points during the game. Those together with the replay should make for a decent report. Remember to include any particularly interesting fighting banter between the 2 coaches!


This post is getting long, funny who "little things to do during work breaks" suddenly extend themselves to tens of minutes. This last bit is to say that risen zombies on my necromantic team will have their skill choices chosen by their old coaches! So far that would be th0r, Keravin and Phrollik! If you want to join in the fun of choosing your skills on my team(reasonable choices only!) then come play a game of standing your player next to my werewolves. Its a fun game, honest :D.

Good luck to all, for now and into next season.

tenpole
07-02-2007, 19:25
You three have thought through issues very well. My opinions on the subjects are;

1. Of course teams can opt out if they so wish, but it is a great loss on their part.

2. What low coach would play loads of elves to bump up their TR.

3. A agree with the friendly rules about not playing a team mote than once in a period of five games. This will have to self regulated, but what about friendlies while a league is currently being run and the teams that are not competing would have a limited number of opponents. Maybe make it, not to play same team in a period of three friendly games while a tournament is in progress.

4. Round robin is the format we have been using yes? Stick with that.

5.I like the idea of previous coaches choosing their skills. Should an orc be slain and subsequently be reincarnated what is the skill for making daisy chains?

th0r
07-02-2007, 19:52
The idea of not playing the same coach within 5 games, is more of a guideline then a rule. I think it's unfair for one team to skill up on a team he know he can do whatever to *cough* NZQ vs Elves *cough*. So if the only person you see in your time window just happens to be the person you played 3 games ago, well whatever go ahead and get a game in. However if you keep playing the same person then were going to have to step in.

Autobot HQ
07-02-2007, 20:05
Is it my fault the league was originally made out of Skaven, Elves and Halflings? Hopefully the Orcs will prove less squishy

Deng Ham
07-02-2007, 20:13
2: I don't think we shoud put more rules upon ourself. Before we kniw if it's needed. I belive that all of you guys are fair and only in the leagu to have fun. So why shoud I try to create rules just in case you happen to be a cheater. And using the less is more philosofi. I belive that if we don't have many rules we go by our own moral and jugment. this often ends in player beeing open about doubt situations and having a positive attitude. Istead of bending the rules in order to do get an upper hand.

3: Thor nailed my consern about the 1 in 5 game limit. The rule works priliantly in ranked FUMBBL free games. Where you have plaenty of teams to choose from. But I wanted to play a game earlyer today. And the only one online. that I coud chalange was Arkzein, whom I just had played.

4: I'd love to see a 16 team knockout turnament. And a round robin with low amount of teams as a league.

5: Don't get me (or my team for that matter :-P) starting to talk about daisy chains.

Autobot HQ
07-02-2007, 20:24
I think we'll have to go with an opt-in round-robin open league, where you could play anyone in the league the once, until you've played everyone. It lets ppl who play alot play all their games, and others play whoever they get a chance to when they are online.

Makes sense to me. Also means I can shut Tenpole's mouth as it's writing cheques his ass can't cash :p

Gres
07-02-2007, 20:36
I think the focus of the league should be tournaments - its not that hard to organise a one-off game outside the Warseer league on FUMBBL and your range doesn't have to be limited by the Warseer league (Although for your Warseer teams it does!).

Deng Ham
07-02-2007, 20:42
I don't know about you. But in order to want to play games. I need to get to know my team. And it neet to have a background and some continuety. So if I only play the PP girls once a month. I will loose interest. And when I play games I get irritated if loosing of my players get hurt. And I won't have a good time playing it.

But if I can play them often. And agaist a group of teams. That I will get to know. Then I we be very motivated. And wining/loosing does not matter. Becouse I wil have fun.

tenpole
07-02-2007, 20:44
Oh so round robin was where you choose your opponent. I would rather have the randomly selected tournament just like the last two seasons. Not interested in round robin.

Autobot HQ
07-02-2007, 20:45
depends how the peeps see it, I was jus throwing it out there lol

th0r
07-02-2007, 20:49
Thing is a round robin where you get to choose means you'll play your games faster (in theory) and thus is will be better. After the round robin say we take the top 8 teams, give top 2 first round byes and then have an elimination tournament. This way we maximize our games while still having a competitive edge as the tournament goes on.

Arkzein
07-02-2007, 23:20
Time to throw my oar in, perhaps coming from a fresh perspective not knowing the previous format and as one of the newbies will give a useful slant on this.

The first thing that struck me was that there were any friendlies at all, or rather that they allowed for team advancement in the main "league". The last league I played in allowed them of course, but there was no change after the match (ie no cash, SPP, results etc. carried over) and only league games counted for team advancement. In reality things evolved into three systems:

League Teams ~ These only played each other in the league system and tournaments and as such were as "fair" as possible. Only one team per person. New players joined a lower division and as such didn't face harsher teams until promoted (I'll chat about divisions and structure later)


League Friendlies ~ Between League teams, but for no SPP, cash etc. the teams remained exactly the same afterwards. Basically a game to test tactics etc. out with your league team, usually played by the more serious league players who didn't have a league game that day.


Side Teams ~ These pretty much worked exactly as I think you have the league now. Namely everyone was in one large "pool". (Some players had several teams though, which is the only difference, basically it was every team someone owned and had painted other than their league team). You could play whoever you wanted as long as not the same person within 3 games, except in Tournaments, you couldn't play the team in the until the tournament ended. Note, these tournaments only involved side teams and were apart from the main league Cup Also like has been suggested there were different rating brackets and such for variety. Basically allowed those who wanted to play more than just league games, or those that wanted a less important/compeitive game, to do so.

Being entirely frank, honestly I don't see how the current system can be anything like "fair". Those who play more will have better teams, period. In a league system everyone will have the same number of games played, bar doing well in torunaments which will onyl be a few games extra. mentioning the league "system" yet again I'll finally move onto it.

We had fifteen players at first, not too different from here at present. Now, even when meeting in real life a few times a week, 15 teams in one league is just too much. Too long for a full round robin/points system to finish, then time for tournaments, too stagnant as it became all to apparent where people were finishing after a few games, no promotion/demotion battles to look forward to and ages until newbies get a chance to play in the league, and when they did they suffered from fancing much stronger opposition leading to a few retirements. (Another problem we have here now, Imagine a new skaven team playing a TR 250 Chaos side, even with hadicaps it'll be a bloodbath)

So we changed the system slightly. Three five team divisions. At first this was simply A, B and C, horizontal (We also Had D with just three teams at this point I think, may have been the season after). Worked well, top and bottom team getting promoted or demoted. Newbies coming in playing teams in the league around their own level, promotions/demotions leaving said teams not too outclassed either. We had Our Cup as well, simple Knock out that could throw any two teams together. Most Importantly with just 4 games to decide each division it was much quicker, much closer and a hell of a lot more exciting and dynamic. Titles being decided by the last TD of a match on the last day. Brilliant. Another bonus, it really got newbies in faster as they never had more than a month to wait in the friendlies. (I would think a month is about right for a season, but upping the teams to say 8 would have left it near two months if you wanted that time frame, easily adjusted)

We did attempt the pyramidal system. Namely Division A with 5, B1 and B2 (Bottom two of A getting demoted, top 1 from each B promoted) and then C1, C2 (Promoted to B1) and C3, C4 (Promoted to B2). We never did get to the Ds. Bonus of this system is that it was extremely changable, only 2 teams in each division staying put! (bar the bottom devision) and since in BB teams grow close together rather quickly having A,B.C,D,E,F wasn't really appropriate. (As a new Good E team would still take months to reach A, could be done in two seasons this way with a good side, yet the same number of teams in the league system!). Also, and this is far more pertinent to the internet where growth and size can be massive, number of possible players grows exponentially with number of divisions, it allowed for expansion without going way down to H or K division meaning players can likely never reach the top. (This is why this format is most commonly seen on online management games online)

Again it had the benefit to newbies on facing oponents on a par with their new teams. It worked really well until the club shut down, a lot of nail biting games, promotions and demotions etc. Only hiccup was a bit of reshuffling when a team retired or a player quit.


In any case this is getting extremely long so I'll summarise. I would strongly advocate a league system that at least didn't allow friendly games for the main league, and also used the dynamic pyramidal format. Thus an extremely fair, exciting and newbie friendly system, at least compared to now.

Run the current system in parallel as it is now. (Allow mulpitple teams or not, each choice comes with it;s own problems but I feel the general area of Fumbbl is much like the multiple team option so isn't needed in this case). Far more relaxed and fun as bloodbowl should be, but everyone likes a good bit of fair compeition as above. Best of both worlds.



Now, the problems, there are always problems. The internet is a big one. by it's nature it is more changable and I would fully expect a lot more newbies joining and people leaving which can make things awkward. Ie say two teams leave from division A and we have A through to D in the Pyramid system. easy enough, just promote two from each B instead of one? But when we get to C. Four teams placed 2nd, but only 2 new open positions in division B. How to decide? (We used TD+Cas difference for the year, 3 pts for a Td, 2 for a cas but TR could equally be used, nothing will be perfect though)

Secondly, if this was implemented. Do we require everyone to make new teams? Or just assign the current teams into the dicisions based on TS/TR. Being a newbie myself I am of course entirely biased, I;d wager a poll would be in favour of a transfer, fair enough.

Thirdly. Inactivity or slowness in play. This wasn't an issue much in the club, but niggled a couple of times. it is also an issue with ALL round robins in any system. Namely one slow player holding things up. Say in a Round Robin of eight everyone has played 6 of their 7 games within a week! 9extreme example), but that one "slow" player who can only play one a week hasn't played any. Wait six weeks just for him?. Solution would be play a game a week (Hence four weeks per round with a 5 team league system). Yet who gets the loss? If both were free but couldn't arange a time.... we have a problem. Generally it can be worked out though.

Fourthly. One game per week? (Plus tournament games, likely two per week in reality. Can be increased and decreased by altering the time limit to play a game though). Perhaps too slow for people in a "serious" league. Offset by the friendly league though, play as much as you want!

Finally. Admin. I don't know if Fumbbl can handle such a league system, I bet not. Extremely easy to do manually, but would take some time. Perhaps a bit more time if opting for a webpage/site with the league standings, simple table on a freesite would do. (In the Club I stuck everything in Excel and printed updated tables twice a week).



As a final point (I know, I know, shut up you overly verbose irishman!). At the very least some definate structure and guidlines need to be set in stone here, folk need to know where they stand. I'd be happy enough with the current system even after typing all that, bit of fun, but can't really think of it as a leuage as such for compeitive purposes if that was the aim. At the very least removal of unlimited friendly games and some sort of newbie protection league/round robin system would need to be introduced.

th0r
08-02-2007, 01:27
Maybe we could look at having conferences like they have in sports. Like an Eastern and Western conference and that way it would split the league in half making the round robin shorter. Then we could pair of the elimination tournament like they do for playoffs. For the conferences we would just have a random lot, to ensure that there was no favoritisms. That way we could have structure for expanding the league further into divisions. So we would all be in one group, where you would be aloud to play whoever for friendly games, but come tournament time we split.

Just a thought after reading.

tenpole
08-02-2007, 08:00
Every week the system of league play changes. Autobot you are the president so please can you make a definitive statement of how the league should be played after the cup. And can you make a set of guidelines for friendlies.

Autobot HQ
08-02-2007, 08:13
I prefer Supreme Lord & Master, but yeah President is close enough ...

And I'm reading this all with incredible thought going into the set up here. A definitive decision will be made by tomorrow at 1800hrs. With that said, Th0r, Yorkiebar and Benninstein If you guys can be online tonight around 2000hrs so we can set a good hour or so to go over this that'd be good, but it isn't demanded as I'm quite capable of doing this on my lonesome :p

A-HQ

EDIT: Though I must admit I like the pyramid system, it's the only one that I haven't thought of (Yes, alot of thought is going into this, ask Th0r we're talking about it almost every night now)