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schoon
17-07-2005, 17:17
I know about (Imperio-centric): Flak Mesh Power Armour Terminator Armourbut what other sorts am I missing?

Is there a light armour (something like Flak-weave) that has been referenced in fluff? ...or something in the mid-range, between Mesh & PA?

Morgan Keyes
17-07-2005, 17:18
Carapace armor. That's the hard armor worn by Guard Stormtroopers, Grenadiers, and other units looking for max armor protection.

Grand_Marshal_Kazan
17-07-2005, 17:35
Artificer armour.

TheSonOfAbbadon
17-07-2005, 17:40
Living metal, scout armour.

Lord-Warlock
17-07-2005, 17:45
Imperium:

- Flak jacket
- Plate (used by certain feral/feudal world regiments)
- Uncountable sub-types

Eldar:

- Spirit armour
- Aspect armour, used by various aspects
- "Heavy" aspect armour, used by Striking Scorpions and Dark Reapers

sigur
17-07-2005, 17:50
When were the designations "Flak" and "Mesh" established? It's armaplast and ceraplast if I remember correctly. Eldar Ceraplast is technically more advanced than the imperial counterpart.

Eldar Aspect armour works pretty similar to Eldar Ceraplast (on impact, the single Ceraplast pieces of the armour become a form a compact piece of plate to avoid damage and damp the impact by spreading it over a wider area and then the Ceraplast pieces become flexible again), but also has some parts of solid carapace to protect crucial body parts. That's the thing all Aspect armours have in common, but there are sometimes big differences between each apect's aspect armour. Warp Spiders, Dark Reapers and Striking Scorpions wear heavier versions of this armour for example.

Eldar Rune Armour is not a traditional armour as carapace is, it's surrounded by psionic energy (mostly projected by the "wearer" himself or woven into special clothings) which often declects any incoming damage before it reaches the wearer.

The Harlequins' Holosuits (Eldar: "Dathedi" - "Between the colors", also called "spectral field" or "facette field" by servants of the Emperor) project a holographic field (by using a built-in generator or a generator worn as a bracer, necklace, medallion, brooch, ...) to blur the wearer's outline and let him appear to move between dimensions, colors and aggregate states. When, for example, the wearer of a Holosuit starts moving, he seems to burst into a million shards which whirl around as he moves. As soon as he stands still, the shards reassemble to the normal, but still blurred and glittering form of the wearer. The faster the wearer moves, the more do the splinters of his/her image dispense, so he/she's harder to hit. Eldar Holofields (as seen on some vehicles and titans) work the same way.

That's all for now. Very interesting stuff, isn't it? :)

Briareos
17-07-2005, 19:25
Due to its more advanced form of interface (through the black carapace implant), the space marine armour could be said to be fundamentally different from the "standard" imperial power armour such as worn by inquisitors.

Dreadnought suits could also be considered armours, but that is open to debate due to their size (same problem as with the Tau Crisis suits).

TheSonOfAbbadon
17-07-2005, 19:27
Technically, anything could be considered armour, vehicles, infantry armour, even that ciggarilo box made of plasteel you keep in your top pocket.

EVIL INC
17-07-2005, 19:55
LOL, you could just tie a whole bunch of grots to your jacket ind use them as ablative armor. :p
Anyways, try getting your hands on the old Rogue Trader book. That has really good listings and descriptions of the different 40k armors. Of course, much of it is no longer around. You might also try reading through the Inquisitor rulebook. If I remember right, it has good listings.

Minister
18-07-2005, 00:24
Imperial
padded clothing
flak vest
full flak armour (with suplimental rigid plates)
mesh (lighter than the above, but more expensive and hence seldom used)
carapace
power
tactical dreadnaught

Within each there are variants of material and/or craftsmanship which may improve the protection afforded, but these are the primary types.

Eldar rune armour is a two-fold system. On one level, there is a fairly flimsy wraithbone armour, on the other an effective psionic-based energy shield. It should be noted that these days the Eldar are no-longer using mesh armour, but instead wear an unclassified armoured body suit.

sigur
18-07-2005, 01:27
...It should be noted that these days the Eldar are no-longer using mesh armour, but instead wear an unclassified armoured body suit.

...which is basically the same as Eldar Ceraplastarmour described above. :)

by the way, maybe you can clear up the fate of Armaplast and Ceraplast?

Khaine's Messenger
18-07-2005, 01:47
I suppose that depends what you're after. Armor can be broken into broad categories, such as what it is designed to resist (for example, armor designed to take sword blows won't necessarily be that great against ballistics or energy weapons, although it's possible that it could be, eg as powered armor is) and whether it is augmetic (or includes any features beyond "mere" protection) or not (further, how would you differentiate the protection afforded by chest carapace vs. "full" carapace? How about composite types? Etc.). Details like these matter little in the wargame abstraction, as everything is reduced to a flat save system with the AP rules and such, thus stagnating the entire idea of how armor works (and how even close combat weapons can be designed to circumvent armors); =][= provides a little more of a taste (specialist armor types, incl. mirrored, ablative, and ceramite), but it basically boils down to the same idea. Further, a lot of stuff in 40k boils down to what is available locally (at least in the Imperium's case), thus providing the aforementioned simplicity a justification, because it would take forever to tweak everything so that it would be "true to background" (much less write the background on how armors can vary in production quality and effectiveness vs. certain attacks).

But since there's not much discussion on all that, I suppose you want an enumeration of what flat saves there are? The simplest answer to that is that you can use whatever idea of period armor you like; the fact is that Storm Trooper carapace offers the exact same protection as feral world full-plate. For the purposes of generalization, though, the Imperium generally plays out as follows:

Bare Nekked/Loincloth- '-'
Flak Jacket (basic vest)-6+
Flak Armor (Jacket + inserts/overlapping armor)-5+
Carapace (incl. Feral Worlder full-plate and Storm Trooper armor)-4+
Powered Armor-3+
"Finely Crafted" Armors (Artificer)-2+
Walking Tank (Terminator)-2+/5+

Most other races have similar armor hierarchies...for example, Tau "powered" armor (eg, Stealth Suits) gives just as much protection (physically) as Space Marine powered armor; Fire Warrior carapace gives just as much protection as Feral Worlder full-plate and the extended carapace of a Tyranid Warrior.

Minister
18-07-2005, 23:33
The Ceraplastarmour you described seems to my mind to have the exact same description as the old mesh armour... but in any case the pointy-earz iz 'ardlee my speshultee.

Armaplass and ceramite are common materials in the Imperium. Both of these are used in heavy-grade constructions (there is a ceramite layer bonded to power and terminator armour to provide heat resistance, and it is a key component in the more advanced vehicular armours), neither are used in the lighter armour types in any appreciable quantities.

TenTailedCat
18-07-2005, 23:35
I don't know if you mentioned it already but Ablative armour is mentione din the =I= book. It strips apart in layers as it's hit so it's overall protectiveness is reduced with every shot.

Tastyfish
19-07-2005, 12:40
Tau use plastics reinforced with some kind of field (think the Culture uses something similar but I might be confusing it with the Fall Revolution's Solar Union, probably the latter as there seem to be some referances that someone in GW has read and liked them)

Its not a forcefield and armour, like a chaplain with rosarius but a field that strengthens the plastic at a molecular level or similar so that it is much more resistant to damage than would be thought.

Minister
20-07-2005, 23:26
Where is this to be found? My knowlege on the Bluies is less than complete and I don't recall that part. I would reguard it as Dubious if the source is Fire Warrior.

Xisor
20-07-2005, 23:32
Where is this to be found? My knowlege on the Bluies is less than complete and I don't recall that part. I would reguard it as Dubious if the source is Fire Warrior.

You may be surprised, the rumour is Si Spurrier is being put in as author on the Xenology books, so it could well turn out that his ideas are infact those shared by the development team. Maybe not though, but still...

On the subject itself however, if it's on Tau armour it'll likely be from firewarrior, I've never heard mention of it from elsewhere(Kill team didn't mention it in detail I don't think).

Xisor

Minister
20-07-2005, 23:51
Kill Team didn't mention anything in terms of the technology's construction (they were Guardsmen under an Inquisitor posing as a diplomatic staff, not tech specialists), however it does strike me that plonking a structural integrity field on Tau carapace would A) be hopelessly mass-intensive and B) give something appreciably better than Stormtrooper armour.

Tastyfish
20-07-2005, 23:51
Firewarrior sadly, though I think its stolen/borrowed/inspired by the series of books that does have a few other references elsewhere (few planet names in armageddon and the history of one the penal worlds, conflict between Anarcho-socialism and Anaracho- Capitialist or similar).

I've yet to read a decent novelisation of quake...lets give the guy a chance.