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Col.Gravis
28-03-2007, 22:29
Just pondering, with the Horus Heresay books theres been an explosion in the number of Pre-Heresay Space Marine armies and I must admit I've been tempted, Marines are'nt really my thing though - Guard is but of course(!). So um yeah, why not the IG Pre-Heresay I'm thinking, the Imperial Army, I've heard people talk of tackling such a project but I've never actually seem anyone do it and as mad as taking on another project is, I'm rather tempted.

The problem is sources as far as I can tell are rather thin on the ground, at the moment the only references I can think of off the top of my head are some scant references in the Horus Heresay books so far and the knowledge theres some in the art books (guess I'll be ordering the collected works one comming out in June...), can anyone point out any other references? Or perhaps you know of someone who has tackled this project already, would be great to see what anyone else has already done.

jfrazell
28-03-2007, 22:37
Also the codex itself talks about the Imperial army and mentions rare things once common including speeders and Landraiders. I'm not sure how you would model a pre-heresy list though-an Imperial Army force would have been much closer to an EPIC combined force with superheavies, titans, aircraft support, plus now verboten things like skimmers.

Commissar Vaughn
28-03-2007, 22:46
sounds like a good idea and its question I regularly ask myself, where is the Imperial Army.

Where to start? Well I think in a lot of cases it wont differ much from the variety you get in IG already, most planets after joining the Imperium in the great crusade carried on with the same weapons and traditions amongst their armed forces as had been established for millenia. The Imperium had a go at standardising it but I dont think they got much beyond the Tactica Imperialis, the Infantrymans Primer and the lasrifle...and even that had local variation!
I always have an image in my head of men in chainmail, but I dont think thats accurate, or at least no more than it is for the occasional IG regiment recruited from a world that has a tech level equal to the middle ages!

Im not sure how else you could differentiate between IG and IA....I spose for starters there's no Aquilas cos the Marines didnt get them till after the Heresy IIRC. ALso logically if the Imperium arrives and demands you join up and supply troops and munitions you dont drop everything and redesign your planets uniforms! Unless your from Planet Versace(well it could happen...).
Your weapons are also more likely to follow local models, tho thats just as likley to be true of the Guard, not everyone gets the STC stuff from the Forgeworlds, some stuff you have to build yerself, a fact a lot of people forget. The adeptus mechanicus might not be very inventive, but I dont think every planet has lost that trait...Its human after all!
Skimmers are more likley to be around too, as well as examples of borrowed/bought/stolen alien tech...not everyone was xenophobic before the arrival of the Imperium, and even the ones that where probably werent averse to slaughtering aliens with their own guns, until the Ordos Xenos began to take an interest!

Cant think of any other tips but I shall ponder this problem more!

Flagg07
28-03-2007, 22:51
Kind of tough since the MArine lists have added to, but not really taken anything away over the years. The IG list, OTOH, has lost several options:
Land Speeder- "Counts As" Sentinel
Predator
Rhino
Assault squads
Dev Squads
Beastmen- "Counts As" Conscripts
Penal Squads- (Last Chancers don't blow their heads off when the get routed)- Conscripts
Human Bombs- Demo Charge
Psychers (Random powers that have little effect and no hood don't count)
Thudd Guns/ Tarantulas- FW rules
Rough Rider Command Squads
Commissar Training Squads
BIKES!!!- RR squad
Whatever else I've forgotten

Slaaneshi Slave
28-03-2007, 22:51
Your biggest problem would be the main battle tank of the era was the Baneblade. You'd have to throw a lot of money at it. :p

Sergeant Uriel Ventris
28-03-2007, 22:59
They were using the Aquila. It still was the symbol of the Imperium, even at that early (relatively speaking, of course) age. You can read in the Horus Heresy novels of remembrancers, IG officers and such, and even Space Marines performing the sign. This sounds like a really interesting project. I'd play a guy that had IG blast their way out of a Land Raider! Good luck with this army!

Col.Gravis
28-03-2007, 22:59
Yikes, quick responses lol, not sold on which list I'll use yet, I'd consider that both the Inquition Codex and Lost and the Damned list would also work from a rules perspective, I want to get the look at feel of the force right first though, this is probably a modelling project first, a playable army second.

RusVal
28-03-2007, 23:25
A few things to remember with the Imperial Army:

1.) Lasguns weren't commonplace until after M32. As such, Autoguns are the grunt's weapon of choice in the Imperial Army.

2.) Cadia also wasn't formed until after the Heresy, so you want to use Cadians as a base for the conversions, try to think of a reason why they look a little like Cadians (maybe it was an earlier design the Cadians adopted and improved upon).

3.) Since the Army and Navy was more intergrated Pre-Heresy, regiments probably had more availability to orbital strikes.

4.) I don't know if Storm Troopers were around at the time, I find it hard to believe that some worlds didn't have some SpecOps troops at the ready.

Actually, now that I think about it, you might need to rename some of the units. Guardsman become Grunts, Storm Troopers become SpecOps (or Rangers, or whatever you can think up), etc.

Good luck with this, it sounds like a cool idea.

Commissar Vaughn
28-03-2007, 23:58
They were using the Aquila. It still was the symbol of the Imperium, even at that early (relatively speaking, of course) age. You can read in the Horus Heresy novels of remembrancers, IG officers and such, and even Space Marines performing the sign. This sounds like a really interesting project. I'd play a guy that had IG blast their way out of a Land Raider! Good luck with this army!


Oh yeah the sign had importance, but were they allowed to wear it? One of the Chapters I forget which, was allowed to wear it causing rancour amongst the other legions, who werent...So Id guess that it wouldnt be a common symbol. However they would have ahd something to unify them...But what?

Light of the Emperor
29-03-2007, 00:03
RT era guard models would be something to look at. I always invisioned that look as pre heresy. The Solar Macharius model would make a great commander for the army too.
Don't forget all the odd type weaponry such as the thudd guns and mole mortars!

Perhaps one of the metal guard ranges look the part? Vostroyans are archaic looking and the old Cadians could fit as well.

Leftenant Gashrog
29-03-2007, 01:10
Vostroyans definately have the heresy era look (John Blanch did a Horus Heresy Imperial Army concept sketch for the CCG which was very similar ~ red semi-greatcoat with a black bearskin hat), and Vostroya was one of the primary sources of military equipment during the Great Crusade.. however most of the Vostroyan minis have aquilae on that might be damned fiddly to remove, and i'd have thought they would be a bit too blinged up for the regular imperial army (Vostroyans are so blingey because the regiments are formed from the conscripted Firstborn sons of every family on Vostroya, every worker on Vostroya is required by law to devote time to producing extra fine-quality/blingey kit for them.. so presumably regular Vostroya equipped regiments would wear similar kit but lack the bling)

i cant think how you would use Thudd Guns or Mole Mortars.. but Rapier Laser Destroyers had stats for 3rd edition published in an issue of Citadel Journal

Brother Siccarius
29-03-2007, 05:59
Just pondering, with the Horus Heresay books theres been an explosion in the number of Pre-Heresay Space Marine armies and I must admit I've been tempted, Marines are'nt really my thing though - Guard is but of course(!). So um yeah, why not the IG Pre-Heresay I'm thinking, the Imperial Army, I've heard people talk of tackling such a project but I've never actually seem anyone do it and as mad as taking on another project is, I'm rather tempted.

The problem is sources as far as I can tell are rather thin on the ground, at the moment the only references I can think of off the top of my head are some scant references in the Horus Heresay books so far and the knowledge theres some in the art books (guess I'll be ordering the collected works one comming out in June...), can anyone point out any other references? Or perhaps you know of someone who has tackled this project already, would be great to see what anyone else has already done.

Land raiders, land speeders, rhinos. Pre-heresy guard had it all. Best way to represent it that I can think of is to use one of the inquisitor books (likely demonhunters).

Rhamag
29-03-2007, 06:23
With the WH list, the possible options include:

IA Regulars (Imperial Guard)
IA Special Forces in Rhinos (ISTs)
IA Officers and command/support squads in Rhinos/Land Raiders (Inquisitors with retinues or as ICs)
Space Marine allies (Space Marine allies!)
The wotsit Sisters from the 4th book (Sisters of Battle)
Imperial Navy/long-range Titan (orbital bombardment)

With research and converting, I think it could look sweet.

Maarten K
29-03-2007, 08:40
the RT-era army is IMHO the pre-heresy army: regiments numbered from one to infinity, no relations with particular planets, eldar-looking lasguns, rhino's and landraiders as vehicles, a squad organisations like the marines. Get the RT book, or the ravening hordes list that came with the 2nd edition box.

Barbarossa
29-03-2007, 09:37
Remember that IG armies of that time were often commanded by Space Marines, a practice that was only dropped after the heresy. I think morale back then was worse than it is now in the guard, since there was no realy imperial cult (thus no religious fervor among the guardsmen) and commissars were only used to prevent regiments from different worlds going at each others throat.
Maybe you're best off with the LatD list. You get SM leaders, you get land raiders (I think) and you can get a small titan (defiler).
I also recommend you read the history of the guard in the IG codex again; there is a lot of info there.