PDA

View Full Version : Viability/Popularity of the Kai Gun



Ozendorph
28-03-2007, 22:58
Hey folks - I'm looking for some opinions on the Kai Gun...searching failed miserably (I think it's because "Kai" is too short a word to search by).

I'm going to be buiding and painting a MoN Chaos Lord, and I'm thinking of giving him a Lightning Claw and a Kai Gun as armament. I'm going this route because I think it's going to look great on the model, no one in our gaming group uses anything similar, and I think it'll be a reasonably effective combination. I would like to hear opinions on a few issues, however, before I start hacking up bits.

1. Have you found the Kai Gun to be effective, given its cost (and the fact that you lose out on your Manreaper or other daemon weapon)? If you've used it or had it used against you I'd love to hear your comments.

2. How popular is the Kai Gun for CSM armies at tournaments? I'm mostly asking this because I'd hate to go through the effort of building the model, only to have the Kai Gun disappear from the Codex in a few months because no one ever bothers to use it.

Thanks in advance,
Oz

EVIL INC
29-03-2007, 00:27
I have used it a few times and had mixed results. Only good really if you are going the midrange shooty army from what I have seen although it could do well in others with luck.
I actually have one modeled onto a tzeentch champion using the ork slugga with the belt. It is big and chaosy looking enough to stand out and with the belt fed looks boltery enough to match the rest of it's fluff.
I would definately experiment with it in freandly games before taking it into a tourny.
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y1/Littlemurphy/Picture085.jpg

Ozendorph
29-03-2007, 01:11
Thanks for the feedback. Judging by the one response after 50+ views, I'm guessing it's not a popular option in most armies.

My idea is to use a pretty chaosy autocannon off an old Genestealer Hybrid sprue to model the gun. I guess it could represent something else if the Kai Gun doesn't appear in the new codex, but unless they put in some other sort of ambiguous "Big Evil Crazy Gun" I'll probably run into wysiwyg problems outside my group.

I'm thinking the Kai Gun would be a strong choice for a foot-slogging Nurgle force, as it is Assault2 (I think) and kills MEQs dead. I just don't know if it justifies a 25pt pricetag, losing the ability to take a Manreaper, and costing my Lord an attack in close combat.

hertz
29-03-2007, 02:04
Well, What I remember of it, its looks good on paper, and I would perhaps use it, if I did play a chaos army outside of WE.

Leunam
29-03-2007, 02:08
It's the only other option for a Daemon Weapon that's shooty. The other choice is too short ranged.

However, I think other Daemon weapons outshine it completely. It leaves you almost helpless in close combat (I don't think it counts as a power weapon). If you plan on staying completely out of combat, then it may be worth it. But if you plan on seeing assault a Dreadaxe, or better yet, a Manreaper, in your case, would be better.

Lyinar
29-03-2007, 02:09
I use it on my Black LEGION Lord, and so far, it's done pretty well in the one game I've played with them. I just converted mine from the Combi-Melta on the metal Power-Armoured Chaos Lord, the barrel and recoil tube from the Imperial Guard plastic Autocannon, and one of the Chaos barrel-ends.

Of course, I was planning on giving him a Lightning Claw to begin with, so the Kai Gun didn't really hinder him that much in assault. Here's a picture, and yes, he's in the Sons of Horus colours as described in the Horus Heresy novels.

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g54/Lyinar/ChaosLord.jpg

EDIT: DEATH TO THE TYPO DAEMON!!!

TRICorp
29-03-2007, 02:41
I think the Kai gun definitely has its uses, but those uses are pretty specific. I think it would be put to best use with a stripped down Lt. with only a Kai gun and Daemonic flight. Throw this guy in a Raptor squad with 3 plasmas and/or meltas. and you have one highly-mobile-anti-MEQ-Doomsquad. Or you could just give it to the Asp Champ.

nightgant98c
29-03-2007, 16:56
I used to play against a guy who used it on his lord, and it worked pretty well. It's not nearly as fear inspiring as some other options, but it does work pretty well.

vampires are cool!
29-03-2007, 17:17
I've been using it in several games on a luitenant [its a converted Fabius model with two pistols]. It works well, especial against space marines and big monsters. I think it works well as long as your not kitting your lord out for an unholy close quarter killing fest - its a waste of points.
The advantages in the Kai gun are the fact that it is an assualt weapon and its range of 36". You can sit in a unit of Havoks and pelt the enemy with bolts of Froidian insipred madness or you can run forward with the rest of the squad and lay down a heavy set of supressing fire.
Its a good choice.

Ozendorph
29-03-2007, 17:55
I don't mean to use it in a "strictly shooty" squad (though the idea posted about the anti-MEQ raptor squad certainly has merrit).

My lord is going to be in terminator armor, and will initially be leading a squad of Plague Marines (though eventually I'll have a squad of Chosen). That means no infilitration (due to termy) and no deepstrike. To get to CC, my guys are going to have earn it :)

I figure the Kai Gun will give them some good punch as they make their way across the board. I was also considering giving him a spawn or some hounds as ablative wounds.

Thenmy
29-03-2007, 18:10
I use [a Kai Gun] on my Black Templars Lord ...

That's cheating! My Ultramarines want a Dreadaxe then. :angel:

MrBigMr
29-03-2007, 18:41
In my next army, a Slaanesh chaos one, I was gonna give the kai gun to a champion of a shooty (2 reaper ACs and sonic blasters) terminator squad. I was gonna use an Inquisitor scale bolter or bolt pistol for it (hey, the fluff says its a big bolter).
The size won't matter, as I'm gonna use Be Lakor model for the champion and I've seen some nice daemon prince conversions of it, so it should work nice.

Lyinar
29-03-2007, 19:13
That's cheating! My Ultramarines want a Dreadaxe then. :angel:

Gah! Evil Typo Daemon... He's attacking my poor Black LEGION guys for blaming Chaos just as much as the Emperor for Horus's death.

*shoots the Typo Daemon with the Kai Gun*

Captain Stuart
29-03-2007, 19:58
Kai guns are best used on a cheap Lt without a HTH toolup IMHO. I play against one regularly in an Alpha Legion/LatD list. It does fairly well, but is best used against MEQs where it will make its points back. Shooting it at 10pt troops isn't very efficient.

I do not recommend using it in conjunction with somebody who wants to be in HTH at any point during the game. If you're not firing it, it isn't doing you any good.

BrainFireBob
30-03-2007, 09:42
I use one. Add it to an infiltrating squad with a pair of plasma guns.

Beautiful, beautiful.

Not as powerful as a straight uber-weapon, it fits very nicely in my army, which relies on a Furious Charging squad with LC lord and a termie squad for its CC power, but mainly is a gunz list.

sprugly
30-03-2007, 09:52
i was considering using one on an iron warriors lord in termi armour. i thought it would be a bit more fitting than a cc deamon weapon because of the more shooty nature of the army. i was personally planning to base the convertion on a plasma cannon!

sprugly

BrainFireBob
30-03-2007, 10:18
Based mine on the old heavy bolter (pewter) if you can find one, it's suitably fancy and "huge death bolter" ish.

Gorb
30-03-2007, 10:32
Using a Kai Gun in a IW force is real fluffy, I think. I use one in my IW kill-team, and it works like a charm (when I play Kill-team, obviously).

I made mine out of lotsa bits I had lying around (a tank's combi-flamer, Chaos vehicle bits, and a plasma gun of an Oblit).

And it's Heavy 2, not Assault 2. The good use for it would be for something with Daemonic Stature, as then it can be wielded one-handed. Add in a great weapon (again, one handed with Stature), or a power fist if you want, and you've got one very versatile Prince.

ashc
30-03-2007, 10:37
Kai gun is alot of fun; try it on a termie lord in a unit of chosen terminators with twin reapercannons and Tank Hunters....

Ash

Ravenous
30-03-2007, 10:43
1.I find the Kai gun works best on a cheap bike lord. He can kill 2 marines a turn and provide a fantastic counter assault if needed.

2. Ive seen it twice in tournies. I asked the people how it did and both said it was "Ok" and did its job but nothing crazy.

ashc
30-03-2007, 10:47
stacking it with other heavy weapons is best; matched in a unit with autocannons or plasmaguns and you can feel the benefit more.

Ash

Ozendorph
30-03-2007, 18:26
Using a Kai Gun in a IW force is real fluffy, I think. I use one in my IW kill-team, and it works like a charm (when I play Kill-team, obviously).

I made mine out of lotsa bits I had lying around (a tank's combi-flamer, Chaos vehicle bits, and a plasma gun of an Oblit).

And it's Heavy 2, not Assault 2. The good use for it would be for something with Daemonic Stature, as then it can be wielded one-handed. Add in a great weapon (again, one handed with Stature), or a power fist if you want, and you've got one very versatile Prince.

According to this reference sheet (http://us.games-workshop.com/games/40k/gaming/reference_sheets/assets/chaos_refsheet.pdf) from GW's site, it's Assault 2. That's an interesting thing about it being one-handed when wielded by a DP though. It doesn't really apply to what I'm working on atm, but certainly something to keep in mind.

Zedric
30-03-2007, 18:42
I'll confirm that page 20 of my C:CSM states the Kai Gun is Assault 2.

El_Phen
30-03-2007, 18:43
I use one. Add it to an infiltrating squad with a pair of plasma guns.



Just repeating this one. It's, in my opinion, the best way to use a Kai gun. I certainly wouldn't use it on a Lord, especially a Nurgle one who should be Man Reaper-ed (if that's a word) up to the eyeballs.

Lyinar
31-03-2007, 01:01
Just repeating this one. It's, in my opinion, the best way to use a Kai gun. I certainly wouldn't use it on a Lord, especially a Nurgle one who should be Man Reaper-ed (if that's a word) up to the eyeballs.

Unless, of course, it's one of those non-Death-Guard Nurgle armies... As the Manreapers were pre-Heresy weapons wielded by certain members of the Death Guard, which just got corrupted along with the rest of the Legion, save Garro's Seventy.

Ozendorph
31-03-2007, 02:35
Am I right to assume that's something from one of the novels? I was reading a bit on Deathguard.org and someone mentioned that there are only 4 Manreapers, but I've never read anything of the sort in any of the rulebooks. If there are only four, those suckers really get around.

Lyinar
31-03-2007, 03:21
I can see there only being four of the things, as spoiler (from The Flight of the Eisenstein): only Mortarion, his two bodyguards, and Typhon are definitely described as carrying them.

Draco Argentum
31-03-2007, 11:19
Add in a great weapon (again, one handed with Stature),

I can't find anything to that effect in the Chaos Des.

hairyheretic
31-03-2007, 11:43
I'm the only person I know locally who has used one, and mine went on my Night Lords Lt. I built it up as a chaos sniper, giving the Lt infiltrate, and having him hang back and just blaze away.

Zedric
31-03-2007, 12:10
I can't find anything to that effect in the Chaos Des.
Yeah, I'm going to second this. Nothing about this in the Codex or the BGB insofar as I can tell.

Gorb, can we get a page reference for Statured DPs wielding two-handed weapons differently?

Reinnon
31-03-2007, 12:13
the kai gun is a deamon weapon that can be used quite successfully on an asp champion in a shooting squad, its basically an uber plasma gun.

i'm not a fan of putting it on lords or lts, they are really there for assault imo

EDIT: the whole "kai gun is one handed" exists only in the summary

Killmaimburn
31-03-2007, 12:18
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w269/killmaimburn/20061205-194153-01.jpg

Big fan of the kai gun, I use him to lead a 4 plas havoc squad in my alpha legion.Deadly beyond anything else, and the potential to take 5 casualties of my own whilst shooting makes it great fun.

In my tzeentch I'll sometimes field a termie lieutenant with kai gun power weapon, strength,Who sits at the back taking out 2 MEQ a turn.
I'm a strong advocate for trying it at least once. (EDIT-just not on a lord)
2) whether its used or not isn't really relevant as to whether they decide to put it in the new codex (coming up quite soon we're led to believe). But just making a very ornate weapon that can be put to some use, you'll always be able to find a place for it somewhere, even if its just a bored aspiring champion who pimped his weapon.

The Muffin Man
31-03-2007, 13:39
I use it every game I play. But dont put it on your HQ put it on a Aspiring Champion.

Zedric
31-03-2007, 13:59
EDIT: the whole "kai gun is one handed" exists only in the summary
What do you know, it sure does. Does the summary take precedence over the Codex?

And it seems to be unique to the Kai Gun, rather that to any two-handed weapon, as Gorb was suggesting.

Killmaimburn
31-03-2007, 14:03
The summary has certain errors e.g. tzeentch aspiring champions not having fearless in the entry. And so some people say that it summises the codex and anything different or new is not relevant (it should be introduced and be structured in the main text), whilst others state that the reference sheet is an integral part of the codex and most mistakes have been removed (e.g. the defiler gun range).
It is the only reference to any item "becoming" one handed in the codex, all the rest of it including great weapons are just urban myths carried on out of the confusion\spillover of that debate.

What gets more confusing is when you use p40 and say that since it is a one handed weapon on a statured lord you can actaully recieve the 2cc bonus.

Zedric
31-03-2007, 14:04
Wow. Fun times.

kortholaxthedamned
31-03-2007, 21:42
I think the Kai Gun would be used a lot more if you were allowed multiple Deamon Weapons, but as it is, the others outshine it so much

Acheron,Bringer of Terror
31-03-2007, 22:51
That's cheating! My Ultramarines want a Dreadaxe then. :angel:

Just turn Chaos and you will be rewarded :angel:


About Kai Gun - Cheapest Lieutenant - Kai Gun 60 pts for 2 S6 BS5 24" shoots - quite nice imo :)

Draco Argentum
01-04-2007, 10:10
What gets more confusing is when you use p40 and say that since it is a one handed weapon on a statured lord you can actaully recieve the 2cc bonus.

You can. Not that I'd want to spend that many points on a gun for a BS3 model.

BrainFireBob
01-04-2007, 10:36
It is assault and low AP with decent strength. I don't have my 'dex, but doesn't it work out cheaper than making him a sorcerer with doombolt?

For that GP daemon prince I'm now tempted to make . . .great weapon, Kai gun, daemonic mutation, daemonic stature, daemonic strength, furious charge . . .

RavenMorpheus
03-04-2007, 05:20
I've always thought a Kai Gun would be best represented by a plastic Chaos Heavy Bolter or possibly one of the metal ones from one of the vehicle kits.

Good idea if you want your chaos lord to have some firepower.

Zedric
03-04-2007, 05:44
Does no one enjoy the Chaosiness of the official Kai Gun?

RavenMorpheus
03-04-2007, 05:57
What is the "official" Kai Gun? I've never seen one.

Shrike30
03-04-2007, 05:59
The Kai gun. (http://store.us.games-workshop.com/storefront/store.us?do=Individual&code=9947010209603&orignav=9)

BrainFireBob
03-04-2007, 06:08
Too new. I think most that have one had it before that model came out during Medusa V last year.

RavenMorpheus
03-04-2007, 06:10
Oh is there a model of it, I really need to read my WD a bit closer, I keep missing bits, it also seems there is a new Chaos Codex on the way as well. :-)

RavenMorpheus
03-04-2007, 06:16
OMG I just looked on the GW website - I like the newish Chaos Terminator Lord when did that come out. Anyway back on topic - I don't think that looks like a Kai Gun, if you read the description about it it says something along the lines of the Kai Gun is an large ancient bolter, so I think the Heavy Bolter model option is a better representation of the Kai Gun.

lessthanjeff
03-04-2007, 06:31
I made my own out of a dreadnought arm and some bits from the warpspider gun. I was actually pretty happy with how it came out though.

Personally I had great success with it sticking it on a lieutenant in a thousand sons squad. Of course my only opponent runs gray knights so each of those shots really racks up some point for me though.

Zedric
03-04-2007, 06:35
OMG I just looked on the GW website - I like the newish Chaos Terminator Lord when did that come out.
Yeah, that bad boy startled me too.

RavenMorpheus
03-04-2007, 06:37
Yeah, that bad boy startled me too.

I don't know when it came out, but I obviously didn't read my WD very well. Looks great, apart from the Kai Gun, not really liking that.

I won't be buying it though - that'd mean replacing my Khorne Daemon Lord in Terminator Armour armed with a Pair of Lightning Claws - oh yes you know you fear him.

Shrike30
03-04-2007, 06:39
...Anyway back on topic - I don't think that looks like a Kai Gun, if you read the description about it it says something along the lines of the Kai Gun is an large ancient bolter, so I think the Heavy Bolter model option is a better representation of the Kai Gun.

*shrug* It says right up top, "Chaos Lord Kai Gun," and it's the only thing that the GW online store turns out when you search for "kai AND gun".

RavenMorpheus
03-04-2007, 06:41
Yes because it's the only one they've ever made, and they didn't do a very good job of it IMO.

Zedric
03-04-2007, 06:51
I was going to say this is off-topic, but the title clearly says "popularity of the kai gun" so I'll just point out that I really, really like it. I'd use it on any model, terminator or otherwise, equipped with the kai gun.

I don't think the gun will get much play in my army, as it would be heresy (again) to field my Word Bearers without an accursed crozius.

BrainFireBob
03-04-2007, 07:08
It's the Medusa V model I was referring to. Chaos got that and the Nurgle Daemon Prince.


EDITED TO ADD: And the lambada Possessed I keep forgetting exist.

Vaktathi
03-04-2007, 07:30
The Kai gun. (http://store.us.games-workshop.com/storefront/store.us?do=Individual&code=9947010209603&orignav=9)

I always thought that was an Ether Lance, guess I was wrong.