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GreatWolf
29-03-2007, 17:57
Okay, I do not have the new dex YET. (I got it coming within the next couple weeks)

In the meantime I am working out trades for the army.

I remember Ulthwe from the last codex Craftworld. And that is the army I would like to do.

However, I see that there are no long Storm Guardians. (and someone said there are no new rules for Ulthwe)

Is Ulthwe still playable by the new Codex?? (I see Eldrad is still in the GW store.) If not, will there be a Craftworld Expansion or something? I really want to play Ulthwe.

Also.. what about the Phoenix Lords? I see they are now in the Classic Range section.

Can anyone answer these questions?

Thanks all!

Thenmy
29-03-2007, 18:05
Is Ulthwe still playable by the new Codex?? (I see Eldrad is still in the GW store.) If not, will there be a Craftworld Expansion or something? I really want to play Ulthwe.
You most certainly can still play Ulthwe, though there are no Craftworld specific rules at the moment. Eldrad is killed in the new fluff, but there are still rules for him, and you can play with him "before" he dies.


However, I see that there are no long Storm Guardians.
They are still in the Codex though, so you can use them. They're not exclusive to Ulthwe though.


Also.. what about the Phoenix Lords? I see they are now in the Classic Range section.
The Phoenix Lords are still there as well, with new rules to boot. It's just the miniatures that are old, and thus part of the Classics Range.

Hope that helps!

golembane
29-03-2007, 18:06
All the special rules for craftworlds are gone.

You can still have a Ulthwe force and use Dire Avengers as 'counts as' Black guardians of the various types, but the black guardians of before are gone and now the standard guardian either comes with a weapon platform if defender type, or assault weapons and close combat built if Storm type.

Iyanden, Ulthwe, Saim-hain, ect are all still able to be built(I still use a fairly successful Iyanden force), just no more special rules so you have to use your imagination.

As for the phoenix lords, they are still around and have been given a fairly respectable update in the new codex.

Wiseblood
29-03-2007, 18:59
I'm currently (but slowly) working on an Ulthwe army. They are still very viable as a choice even without black guardians. Just remember all of those vehicle options you have that are all piloted by guardians. As well as the Wraithlords that work best in a warlock heavy force.

GreatWolf
29-03-2007, 22:19
So the special rules for being able to take extra Storm Guardians is gone? (I THINK that was a rule in the old book, though Im not sure)

I also believe I remember the Ulthwe could do extra Warlocks or something like that. Is there some way to still represent that? Or is that one of the special rules that are gone as well?


As for Ulthwe.. if there is no rules for them, it looks like I'll just have to build an army and paint it Ulthwe colors then.


Thanks for everybodys help so far. Maybe I will list all what I have and you guys can give tips/advice on what I might need or not need as I have never played Eldar before. :)

Bolter Bait
29-03-2007, 22:46
Hmm, IIRC, seer councils are sort of possible with the new dex; take a farseer and the optional 3-10 warlocks and you have a nice council. I highly approve of that change as it gets rid of the list consisting of two 5-eldar squads of guardians and 2 farseers with a horde of 50 warlocks.

Storm Guardian Squads and regular Guardian defenders are still in the codex; they just cannot be upgraded to be WS/BS 4 as Black Guardians (IIRC, the guardians used as the two mandatory troops choices used to automatically be BS/WS 4, depending on what their role was, this is gone entirely). Use Dire Avengers painted black and call it a day. In fact, nothing can be upgraded to be WS/BS 4 as per the old Craftworld/Eye Of Terror Ulthwe rules.

What I recommend for an Ulthwe list is to voluntarily restrict yourself to choosing from the following choices.

-HQ-
Eldrad w/warlock council
Farseers w/ warlock council
Jetbike farseer w/ jetbike warlock council
Avatar
Maugen Ra

-Elites-
Harlequins
Banshees or Striking Scorpions (aka Black Storm Guardians)

-Troops-
Dire Avengers (aka Black Guardians)
Jetbike Guardian squads
Guardians of either stripe w/ warlock

-Fast Attack-
Vypers

-Heavy Support-
Dark Reapers
War Walkers
Support Batteries w/ warlock

Emphasize a list that contains warlocks wherever you can field them (Actually, a support batter with a embolden warlock gets to reroll Target Priority tests, which isn't a bad choice), no vehicles larger than war walkers or vypers, and lots of solid infantry squads. Fluffy and no one will accuse you of being a Saim-Hann-Mech-Eldar spam king.

Unfortunately, there isn't any "Ulthwe*" to equip an autarch to make on part of this list and all the aspect warriors I excluded don't really fit into an Ulthwe-themed army either (although since the old rules allowed you to take 1 non-Dark Reaper aspect warrior squad, you could always do that as well, in which case I'd pick one opposite of what your war walkers are equipped to handle).

*(Oh yeah, I went there *ducks thrown fruit*)

golembane
29-03-2007, 23:15
the seer council has become a super force now. It is an HQ choice that doesn't take up a spot in the force chart, and does not have to be attached to the Farseer. Much like the Seer council from Dawn of War to put it simply.

Lord Malek The Red Knight
29-03-2007, 23:19
(Actually, a support batter with a embolden warlock gets to reroll Target Priority tests, which isn't a bad choice)
unless they are firing their Shuriken Catapults* (or the Warlock is throwing a Spear), they dont need to worry about Target Priority anyway. :p

~ Tim
p.s. otherwise, excellent post :)
p.p.s. *i just noticed that the crew cant have Shuriken Pistols anymore... which means the 6 metal crew i bought Kate arent WYSIWYG anymore... :(

Bolter Bait
30-03-2007, 00:49
the seer council has become a super force now. It is an HQ choice that doesn't take up a spot in the force chart, and does not have to be attached to the Farseer. Much like the Seer council from Dawn of War to put it simply.I was going to say "Bwah? Those warlocks are a retinue for the farseer," since it says that the farseer and warlocks are a single HQ unit. However, looking at the book, you could be correct since it does not specifically say that they are a retinue that must accompany the farseer at all times.

Personally, I don't see much benefit to running them seperate though, since the farseer benefits from the ablative wounds/Emboldened psychic tests and with or without a farseer, the warlocks are still a scoring unit regardless.

Tarquinn
30-03-2007, 09:36
I'm an Ulthwé player and like others, I use Dire Avengers as Black Guardians (Warlock as an Exarch). The Seer Council is basically still in the new codex, so no problem there.

Storm Guardians, I admit, I have never used.

Hellebore
30-03-2007, 10:54
unless they are firing their Shuriken Catapults* (or the Warlock is throwing a Spear), they dont need to worry about Target Priority anyway. :p

~ Tim
p.s. otherwise, excellent post :)
p.p.s. *i just noticed that the crew cant have Shuriken Pistols anymore... which means the 6 metal crew i bought Kate arent WYSIWYG anymore... :(

In these cases I'm a fan of What you READ is what you get.

If I have a squad leader in a squad that can't take a power fist, then the model is obviously NOT equipped with one, because he can't have one.

This is even easier with units that don't have options - of course crewmen can't have pistols, ergo, all of them MUST be equipped with catapults.

Anyone who pulls wysiwyg on models that clearly can't have what the model was made with is a little too uptight in my opinion...

Hellebore

fenrisbrit
30-03-2007, 11:58
I play Ulthwe but have approached it a little differently. The piece of fluff I focussed on was that they do not have access to many aspects. Accordingly the only aspect I have used is one 5 man Warp Spider squad.

Black Guardians are dead and IMO that means Storm Guardians are not worth it. In the old Codex Storm Guardians with the extra WS a Warlock with enhance to give another +1 WS and +1 I made them viable. No longer. Dire Avengers is a possibility but I have just taken them out and moved to Defender squads instead.

The Seer council can still be used as described in the mails above but you can get enough of an Ulthwe Pyskers feel to the army by having a tooled up Farseer (or Eldrad) and Warlocks in every squad.

Because Guardians are too weak on their own I have opted to run with a squad of Wraithguard, an Avatar and a Wraithlord to add the punch needed - not aspect heavy and hence in keeping with the fluff. Nevertheless the Guardian defender squads are there and play an important part in the army.

Overall I would say that Ulthwe are the hardest of the Craftworlds to simulate in the new rules but it can be done.

stahly
30-03-2007, 14:07
My Ulthwé army looks like that:
HQ 1 and 2: Farseers (unfortunately know Warlock retinue because these are *******' expensive! Maybe at 2000 pts)
Elite: Harlequins
Troops: 2x 10 Guardian Defenders with Warlock, 1x 10 Dire Avengers with Wave Serpent
Fast Attack: 2 Vypers
Heavy Support: 2 Fire Prism and a Wraithlord (because I love the model. Maybe you should go with War Walkers for a more fluffy theme).

So for me Ulthwe in the new rules is for me:
- Guardians, at least one squad but better two, with Warlock
- No more aspect squads than guardian squads, the less the better
- Two Farseers as HQ