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View Full Version : HQ's - Need more purpose?



Smokedog
30-03-2007, 13:12
This line of thought came about from a game I just had.
I had one HQ, A farseer, on the third turn he dies in close combat, so what I hear you say?

Well It just *feels* wrong that the commander of your army gets killed, and the rest of the army carry on as if nothing had happend.

In my opinion, your HQ getting killed should have some affect. Maybe - Ld to all troops?

ctsteel
30-03-2007, 13:17
that can happen with some armies that especially rely on their leaders - tau with ethereals being the prime example.

also a space marine commander who dies, loses the rest of the army the rites of battle so they go to their normal leadership for rolls. similar effect I guess.

Not sure if other armies have anything similar. If its something you and your gaming group want then houserule it or something.

SwordsofChaos
30-03-2007, 13:25
Itīs devastating for tyranids to lose their leaders, hardly need anymore drawbacks.

oneman
30-03-2007, 13:26
I see it more as a case of most of the soldiers have seen loads of death so it doesn't surprise them that much.Those armies that can suffer do and others may follow this(for some reason I keep thinking 'new Ork dex' here,don't ask me why!).

Off the top of my head 'Nids are the only other race that can suffer really badly from HQ death.

edit:pah!Type too slow!!

don_mondo
30-03-2007, 13:53
IIRC, we had that sort of rule back in 2nd ed, where if the commander died, every unit had to make a Morale test.

magemanda
30-03-2007, 13:55
That would be similar to the old rule in WFB as well - when the general died, units across the board took leadership tests.

I concur with whoever said that Nids don't need additional problems! The loss of synapse is quite enough, thanks :p

Baneboss
30-03-2007, 14:03
I concur with whoever said that Nids don't need additional problems! The loss of synapse is quite enough, thanks :p

Not if you have an army where only troops are Genestealers and this is the only kind of choice i see these days.

magemanda
30-03-2007, 14:04
That's far from the only sort of Nid army I see! Every Nid army I see has a glut of gaunts, but then I don't see any 'zilla Nids round these parts.

Overlord Krycis
30-03-2007, 14:08
Not if you have an army where only troops are Genestealers and this is the only kind of choice i see these days.

:eek:
All genestealer?! Thank fudge that I don't see that round here.

As for -Ld for your General dying...playing Death Guard means that I wouldn't worry about something like that (almost all the basic guys are thousands of years old and ACs are Ld10 anyway) and my Tau and Nids already have it bad enough...:cries:

Cheitan Shadowless
30-03-2007, 14:14
Not if you have an army where only troops are Genestealers and this is the only kind of choice i see these days.I was going to inquire as to where you live...but I see it's Poland. :eyebrows:

Lord Malek The Red Knight
30-03-2007, 17:49
the Combat Patrol rules that came out (and are still available online) before they were updated in the 4th ed rulebook also used the Commander's Ld (for tests to see if the whole force pulled out after taking 50% losses). was dropped in 4t ed (maybe because it wasnt written that clearly?).

~ Tim

Ozendorph
30-03-2007, 18:38
What if your leader isn't particularly well liked? Maybe nearby underlings waste a turn golf-clapping while the enemy is dislodging his chainaxe/choppa/whatever from the general's head?

lord_blackfang
30-03-2007, 18:50
I'm not keen on imposing additional penalties when an HQ dies, but most HQs should have a positive effect on other units, so the loss of the HQ will be felt.

Synapse, Rites of Battle, and IG Leadership bubbles are good examples.

erion
30-03-2007, 19:07
I like what AT-43 did with their Commanders. As a basic game rule, the higher the field commander's authority, the better chance you have of determining who goes first on any given game turn.

The Highest-ranking officer generates command points Based on his value plus the number of friendly units on the field. They can be used to effect the outcome of the authority check each turn, re-order your unit activation sequence once it's been set for the turn or issue special orders that can do stuff like increase cover saves, Clear a line of sight for a friendly unit, split your special weapons fire off to a different target from the rest of the squad, or put a unit that has already been activated into overwatch mode (which is exactly what it sounds like).

I understand that's outside the context of the 40k rules set, but so far it has been proven to make your commanders far more useful in-game than simply being a close-combat veg-o-matic.

scarletsquig
30-03-2007, 19:51
What if your leader isn't particularly well liked? Maybe nearby underlings waste a turn golf-clapping while the enemy is dislodging his chainaxe/choppa/whatever from the general's head?

Well if you're after an army that gets some pretty big benefits from having their leaders die, look no further than Sisters of Battle :)

Latro_
30-03-2007, 19:53
imposing bad effects on HQ dieing would encourage players too use HQ in a 'hid behind a rock' styley unlike the brave leadnign the charge characters they are normally made out to seem like in the fluff.

MrBigMr
30-03-2007, 20:04
so what I hear you say?
Good riddens.

Besides, most troops would propably like to see their commander die. While in the army, I don't remember anyone having anything positive to say about out company commander. Not even the other officers.

Democratus
30-03-2007, 20:56
Remember that these battles are tactical engagements on a very small scale. The effect the death of a commander will have during the brief time (6 turns) of a battle would be minimal.

Were you playing a large-scale strategic battle, then perhaps there should be repercussions. But not in this case.

I am reminded of the Thebian general Epaminondas who fought in the front ranks of the Sacred Band and soundly defeated his enemies at Mantinea - despite the fact that he was struck down during the battle.

Kegluneq
30-03-2007, 22:26
I am reminded of the Thebian general Epaminondas who fought in the front ranks of the Sacred Band and soundly defeated his enemies at Mantinea - despite the fact that he was struck down during the battle.
Or Nelson, who was also fatally wounded during his greatest victory.

I think the rule of thumb is that only the Tau care sufficiently about their commanding class to be affected much when one of them dies... Some kind of 'inspirational leader' rule, basically the Tau ethereal rule would be a nice addition in future editions of 40k (although they'd have to reain their close combat skills, to encourage players to actually use them).

Ko Improbable
30-03-2007, 22:42
I think that it should be left the way it is. The suffering of the Nids, Marines, Tau, etc when their leader dies has been addressed. But what about Guard?

You want me to spend points to take a Commissar that could likely throw away the entire battle because the company commander decided that running away was the best course of action? No thanks.

Lord Malek The Red Knight
30-03-2007, 22:50
The suffering of the Nids, Marines, Tau, etc when their leader dies has been addressed. But what about Guard?
well you lose your Ld bubble, your Master Vox (if you took one, LOL) and if you took a Trademark Item your Command Squad has to take a Morale Check too. so they dont get away scot-free. :p

~ Tim

Ko Improbable
30-03-2007, 22:53
well you lose your Ld bubble, your Master Vox (if you took one, LOL) and if you took a Trademark Item your Command Squad has to take a Morale Check too. so they dont get away scot-free. :p

~ Tim

Well, yeah, I know. It's just the Commissar thing that would really get under my skin with a "Oh noes! The company commander, who's probably part of the nobility and thus treats us like skum just died! Their weapons must actually work! Run away!" sort of rule.

Angelwing
30-03-2007, 23:01
another example of bad things when losing hq: necron lord with resurrection orb.
not devastating, but hey ho.

Champsguy
30-03-2007, 23:07
I've found that the worst part about losing your HQ choice in a battle is that, well, you just lost your HQ choice. With the way people play around here, that means that about a third of your points just went away.