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Lord_Byron
02-04-2007, 19:40
As the title says, this is only a rant.

95% of the games of warhammer I play are against the same two guys. We've been playing together for the better part of a decade, and most of the time when we get together, all three of us get together. This of course leads to us playing three player games, which warhammer wasn't really designed for. Fortunately, a White Dwarf was released with relevant rules for three player match-ups. They're a little funky, but a game is a game.

Here's where the rant kicks in. I play orcs and ogres. Friend A plays chaos and brettonia, while Friend B plays wood elf and empire. Ever since the newest wood elf book has come out, Friend B has been playing wood elves exclusively. After a few dozen games of Friend A and I beating the stuffing out of each other and Friend B swooping in and cleaning up the points to take the game, our battles devolved into Friend A and I both staging our battles against each other in Friend B's deployment zone. Basically we both gang up on the wood elves, and more often than not we both lose anyway due to the wood elf ability to pick and choose combats with overwhelming force while using mobile forests to stymie undesirable combats, and also due to there being no standards to capture from Friend B, and also due to hard hard it is to wring even the 96 points for a unit of dryads out of the woodies.

Well, Friend A has become fed up with this and started collecting dwarfs. Our last twenty games have been orcs (or ogres) against wood elf magehammer and dwarf gunline. Let me tell you. These are not happy conditions for fat guys or greenskins.

I can either run across the table to meet wood elves only to have tree sung forests move in and block my advance while the entire forest spirit army concentrates on taking out a couple of my units whilst I am being constantly pounded by dwarven artillery and handguns... Or I can rush dwarf lines, getting pounded by artillery and handguns, only to catch some tough love from the wood elves to my rear all prison sex style. Sitting in my deployment zone really isn't an option, as I'll just get pounded by dwarf artillety and handguns until the wood elves can move enough forests to protect themselves from dwarf fire and jump my depleted forces with everything they have.

Not a happy situation for orcs or ogres, trying to face magehammer, points denial, forest spirit joy on one side and the good old dwarf gunline on the other. It's not so much that they hate me and always team up on me, it's just that I make a much better target for their respective armies than the other guy does.

So I have decided... to get beardy. Chaos dwarfs. If I have to fight two armies at once, I'll do it pointy hat style. I figure two earthshakers, 4 spearchukkas and a couple death rockets can duel with the common dwarf firepower, and the black hammer of hashut on a bull centaur lord, backed up with a couple solid blocks of chaos dwarf warriors can hold off the tree spirits, with plenty of greenskin slaves to throw into the grinder on the other side. Best thing is, I already have a ton of painted greenskins to form the bulk of the new army.

Wish me luck.

Dat Wildboy
02-04-2007, 20:01
your idea is perfect revenge, what you have proposed should work well and you will be representing a seriously underplayed army which you can really put your mark on.

i wish you very much luck, as i also have a small chaos dwarf force. good luck!

Fred_Scuttle
02-04-2007, 20:07
Considering you fight the same armies 90% of the time - you really can not be faulted for kitting out an army for a specific foe.

Best of luck to you, WWWWWWAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGHHHHHHHH!!!!!!

EvC
02-04-2007, 20:33
May the beard be with you, until no-one is having fun any more and you decide to play another game ;)

Watcher666
02-04-2007, 20:35
when me and my 2 mates play 3 player games (i play WE and they play dwarfs and Nurgle mortals so its a hard game for me) we do points based on proportions.

for example a unit of 20 Dwarf warriors is destroyed by me and the nurgle player. i killed 12 and he killed 8 and say the unit cost 200pts, thats 200 VP (standard goes to the person who made them flee/killed the model) so i would get 12/20 of the 200 vps (120) and he would get 8/20 (80). it works pretty well, just needs you to keep a good list of each model u kill throughout the battle.

NakedFisherman
02-04-2007, 20:38
Why do all three of you need to play a game together?

Surely someone can just watch?

Onisuzume
02-04-2007, 20:44
Sounds like you need a Lizardmen Sacred Host of Huanchi.
And fight those WE on their own terms. (nothing says "I love you" more to a WE then by marching 8" through a forest)

Hywel
02-04-2007, 23:58
Why do all three of you need to play a game together?

Surely someone can just watch?


Indeed! Or someone takes 4000pts and the other two make a team with 2000pts each.

You could also play a flank attack with one player controlling the reinforcements then your attacker and defender as normal.

3 player games using those WD rules are great fun, but if you're getting a bit cheesed off with being the man wearing a bullseye, try some different ways of playing the game.

skavenguy13
03-04-2007, 00:19
Have you considered playing different point sizes?
Strange scenarios?
Taking more than only 1 army at a time?
Asking people you know to play with the remaining armies?
Ask for a few games with "balanced" lists?

Heretic Burner
03-04-2007, 00:23
Well your rant shows how essential it is that GW do a better job of balancing armies. I feel for you, against a strong WE army the poor greenskins stand next to no chance of winning. If you truly are stuck playing against these same players there are a few ideas to freshen things up a bit:

1) Switch armies. Give a go as the stunties. Let your friends play your armies, OK and greenskins are the same tier in power while WE are far, far ahead.

2) Handicap the game. Give an advantage to one player to make things interesting.

3) Use different scenerios. It looks like one pitched battle (or three-way pitched battle) after another. Force those WE to leave the shelter of their trees to capture a tower. A whole new twist on things.

4) Team up. Game is much better balanced as one army taking on another. Go 2K vs 2 1K armies and everyone can still play at once.

505
03-04-2007, 02:45
if I remember right the generals compoium has rules for multiplayer battle sto.

mines in storage so I can't say for 100% sure

Varath- Lord Impaler
03-04-2007, 07:32
Well your rant shows how essential it is that GW do a better job of balancing armies.

At least your thinking with your head. Warhammer isnt meant to be played 3 way and when your facing the same 2 opponents with armies like they have it will always turn into an arms race.

Please dont just blame GW when an experiment using their rules goes wrong. It's not their fault.

Hawkmoon
03-04-2007, 08:05
If three player battles cause that much of headache than don't play them. Like NakedFisherman said, one of you could just watch right?
I'm not a big fan of them myself. Even when it's only 2 sides with equal points and 3 players.

Why not try and recruit new blood? The group of gamers that I first started playing warhammer with advertised for their club at a local comic/game shop. That's how I met them. I suppose the warseer would be a good place to start looking.

Tutore
03-04-2007, 14:06
If only they created a normal WE army. They created a monster.

Captain Micha
03-04-2007, 14:26
I was wondering why my friend wouldn't let me look in his army book!

ZeroTwentythree
03-04-2007, 14:30
4) Team up. Game is much better balanced as one army taking on another. Go 2K vs 2 1K armies and everyone can still play at once.

I think that's an excellent idea. You could rotate who gets the 2k army each time you game. Also a good excuse to start bumping up the point values on the armies so you can do 2400 vs (2x)1200 or 3000 vs. (2x)1500.

Lord_Byron
03-04-2007, 17:18
Why do all three of you need to play a game together?

Surely someone can just watch?

Well... we're constrained by time, and don't get together often so we usually play three player so we can all get a game in.



Well your rant shows how essential it is that GW do a better job of balancing armies. I feel for you, against a strong WE army the poor greenskins stand next to no chance of winning. If you truly are stuck playing against these same players there are a few ideas to freshen things up a bit:

1) Switch armies. Give a go as the stunties. Let your friends play your armies, OK and greenskins are the same tier in power while WE are far, far ahead.

2) Handicap the game. Give an advantage to one player to make things interesting.

3) Use different scenerios. It looks like one pitched battle (or three-way pitched battle) after another. Force those WE to leave the shelter of their trees to capture a tower. A whole new twist on things.

4) Team up. Game is much better balanced as one army taking on another. Go 2K vs 2 1K armies and everyone can still play at once.

1 - I wouldn't be this frustrated if someone *would* change armies. Heck, not even swapping books but just changing up the army list would be nice. I really don't understand playing fantasy and then focusing on shooting or just not getting in combat. I give them a hard time about it, to be sure. "You know if you guys really want to play 40K I have a fully painted Tau army I'd just love to dust off."

2 - I am so not going to suggest this. I'd be heckled for years. :eek:

3 - This is a good idea. I'll try it.

4 - This is a very good idea. I'm definitely going to try it.

Thanks for the posts my friends.