PDA

View Full Version : 2ASS-Cannon, how do you play it?



Okidus
04-04-2007, 00:53
just curious if most people still play 2asscannons in non-Dark Angel Termie lists, or are you being 'honorable' and using just the one.

thanks.

philthulhu
04-04-2007, 01:06
Only reason I haven't got the additional one(s) is because my Termies are old skool, and I'd have to convert the damn thing myself. If I wanted them to match at all.

You can never have too many ass-cannons.
Assault cannons, too...

AlphaLegion
04-04-2007, 01:10
Only reason I haven't got the additional one(s) is because my Termies are old skool, and I'd have to convert the damn thing myself. If I wanted them to match at all.

You can never have too many ass-cannons.
Assault cannons, too...

I cant stop laughing. I have a q for you, is it twin link or just two. If its just two, I think you play normally but get another cannon... Thats how I would do it. If its twin link read rule book?

etham
04-04-2007, 01:11
Well, since you can't do it any more if you use the DA codex, I don't. I suppose I could if I went with the SM codex, but I won't do that unless I decide to build another SM army, which I won't do until after I do Orks, Inquision, and Tau, and that comes after my Eldar.

Okidus
04-04-2007, 01:13
but what stops me from claiming my DA's are just a codex SM force and include the extra AC in the termie squad?

surely GW will nerf stadard C:SM down to the single AC as well, dontcha think?

philthulhu
04-04-2007, 01:26
I cant stop laughing. I have a q for you, is it twin link or just two. If its just two, I think you play normally but get another cannon... Thats how I would do it. If its twin link read rule book?

Nah, it's two Assault Cannons. Or 2 Hvy Flamers. Or even 2 Cyclones.
2 Termies in the squad get a weapon upgrade.

Like if you bought the right Trait (almost said 'Doctrine') you could have 2 Flamers or 2 Plasmaguns in a standard Marine squad.

I've proxied it before, but given that my own Termies only come out to play in bigger games, I'm not fussed. As a BT player, I tend to proxy the two Hvy Flamers more :p

As for nerfing the Marines down, well, it's possible... but then, you're looking at 240pts for a 5-man squad with 2 ACs and no other upgrades. That squad can still be slaughtered to a man by a cheaper squad of power-weapon-armed aliens in one turn before they get anywhere near the swinging-of-powerfists stage. They're Space Marine Termies. They're already nerfed.

Feor
04-04-2007, 01:29
They won't nerf them down to a single Assault Cannon. DA get it because Deathwing squads can only deploy in squads of 5. Twice as many termis in a Codex marine army means twice as many heavy weapons makes sense.

Stella Cadente
04-04-2007, 01:50
just curious if most people still play 2asscannons in non-Dark Angel Termie lists, or are you being 'honorable' and using just the one.

thanks.

I would only use 1 ever, for 2 reasons

1: you only get 1 in a box
2: I would hate to fight 2 so why would I use 2 when my enemy would feel the same

Data007
04-04-2007, 01:57
^ You don't use something because you'd hate to fight it? Okay, so what do you say to your opponent who uses two? Or the Eldar who uses three Wraithlords? Are opponents supposed to get your approval before they put their list down on the table? I'm sure if you're playing someone who cares what you think of them, that idea is feasible, but for most players, they are going to take what works, whether you like it or not. That's the key. If you don't like playing two assault cannons, then don't use them. Your opponent, however, gets to choose.

artificer
04-04-2007, 02:00
I do play the 2 cannon termie squad, but I also play (depending on the list I've made up that week)

a) chapter master and full squad

b) 2 dreadnoughts - which after playing the wraithlord a few times, seems to be incredibly fragile and over-costed.

c) NOT-5 man las/plas squads.

I think 2 cannons in an army are okay. There's one guy where we play who regularly fields 6 :rolleyes:

Voodoo Boyz
04-04-2007, 02:52
I use two in my terminator squads.

Because without two heavy weapons the regular terminator squads are useless in game.

Stella Cadente
04-04-2007, 03:18
^ You don't use something because you'd hate to fight it? Okay, so what do you say to your opponent who uses two? Or the Eldar who uses three Wraithlords? Are opponents supposed to get your approval before they put their list down on the table? I'm sure if you're playing someone who cares what you think of them, that idea is feasible, but for most players, they are going to take what works, whether you like it or not. That's the key. If you don't like playing two assault cannons, then don't use them. Your opponent, however, gets to choose.

I said I wouldn't like to fight it, I never said I wouldn't fight it at all, <----Generalization removed as it is flaming a group of players and will lead to pointless arguments. WarSeer Inquisition---->

I know most players with no imaginations will take whatever works (usually 3 Vindicators and 3 Venerable dreads) doesn't mean I will, I Make fair balanced lists that everyone has a chance to beat so everyone has fun, not just the guy with a million assault cannons

Occulto
04-04-2007, 03:52
just curious if most people still play 2asscannons in non-Dark Angel Termie lists, or are you being 'honorable' and using just the one.

thanks.

If the DW rules say I can only take one heavy weapon, then that's what I take whether they're painted bone or any other colour.

widgren
04-04-2007, 06:55
I play with two in my codx army. the codex allows it so i think its allright. should I be allowed to field 35pts rhinos? should ten man terminator squads be banned?
are all codices the same?

AngryAngel
04-04-2007, 06:58
Only reason I haven't got the additional one(s) is because my Termies are old skool, and I'd have to convert the damn thing myself. If I wanted them to match at all.

You can never have too many ass-cannons.
Assault cannons, too...

They still sell the smaller model assault cannon arms if ya have any models ya can switch arms off on. I have mostly the old style terms myself so had to do such. If ya have a GW store near ya, you'll be able to order them rather cheaply there.

fwacho
04-04-2007, 07:41
just play out of whatever codex suits you. Teh reason only 1 Assault cannon is allowed in codex DA is becasue
1. only ifve termies can be in a sqaud.
2. first turn gaurunteed deepstrike with Deathwing assault (2 would be way overpowered)

If you are using Codex Space marines then by all means use 2 in a squad. I wouldn't think less of you. (My raven wing will be sporting 4 a-cannons plus one more twinlinked)

philthulhu
04-04-2007, 07:55
They still sell the smaller model assault cannon arms if ya have any models ya can switch arms off on. I have mostly the old style terms myself so had to do such. If ya have a GW store near ya, you'll be able to order them rather cheaply there.

Meh. They rarely come out to play atm, and the nearest GW store is... an hour and a half away (ie. about 150km). Even then, I think the only way we get bitz down under is via mail order.

I'm happy to proxy in the friendly games I play. They're filling in until I get my Tau painted... it's only been five years for that ;)

Axel
04-04-2007, 08:53
I recently came up against a Space Wolves army (using the old SW codex) who used two Assault cannons with his 4 termies. He claimed that the Terminators use the new rules, while he happily moved in his scouts on my backside using the old Codex rules.

During the game I trusted his word for it, but before the next game I would like ot have confirmation for a third side (our SM warseer crowd).

So, can someone confirm that it is legal for SWs to use two assault cannons in a unit?

fwacho
04-04-2007, 09:51
They are only allowed one heavy wepaon per three. i remebre the wording being vague as to whether this meatn 4 or six. my old SW termies carried a heavy flamer and cylcone missle launcher in a squad of 5. I think what he 's doing is perfectly legal but I'm not sure.

Wolflord Havoc
04-04-2007, 10:00
Space Wolf Guard bodygaurd squads can take 1 heavy weapon per 3 models (rounding down) so yes 4 Terminator equipped Wolf Guard can take 2 heavy weapons. If you have 7 Terminators you can take 3 and so on.......

All space Wolf weapons use the rules from C:SM (with the exception of Cyclones which were slightly nerfed by the wording in the FAQ) so as far as I can tell your opponent was using the army correctly.

Onisuzume
04-04-2007, 12:12
Only 1 heavy weapon per 5 men.
Mostly 'cuz my squads are limited to that. >_>
I would've loved to have 2 cyclones at 5 men though... (Anti-tank, awaaay!)
Oh well, at least they're fearless with 1st turn deep strikes....

Brother-Captain Antilles
04-04-2007, 13:07
They won't nerf them down to a single Assault Cannon. DA get it because Deathwing squads can only deploy in squads of 5. Twice as many termis in a Codex marine army means twice as many heavy weapons makes sense.

I'm just curious why a Codex chapter would have twice as many Terminators (and therefore twice as many heavy weapons) as the Dark Angels :confused: . I dont believe they do. 1st Co is 100 marines (give or take) whether DA or Codex. The only difference is DW are all in Terminator armour, and a Codex chapter does not necessarily field all their vets in that way.

A true Codex chapter would field Terminator squads as 5 man squads (as per the Chapter organisation page in C:SM, which lists 20 (5 man) Terminator squads or 10 (10 man) Veteran squads).

I can well see any revamp of C:SM ending up much the same as C:DA as far as Terminator squad size / heavy weapon options go, unless there is some provision for larger squads in the form of Traits maybe. Then again, I would expect the Combat Squads rule to be carried over also for regular squads. Perhaps there will be an option to split a 10 man Terminator squad into 2 5 man Combat Squads, say half equipped with TH/LC and the other as a fire support with two heavy weapons? Who knows.

As I play DA successor, I am fine with the single heavy weapon. But anyone not playing DA is absolutely fine to field a 5 man squad with two heavy weapons, on the basis that (a) its permitted and (b) I dont think it actually goes against fluff for Terminators to equip themselves in whatever way seems best to deal with their enemies, whether it be 2 HF or 2 AC, or 2 Cyclones.

Scanno
04-04-2007, 13:14
I didn't play it because I only had one model and I dislike proxying. However, thanks to my new veteran squad (robed DA), I have a new one to retrofit onto one of my guys. Rather tempted to do it,too.

Gutlord Grom
04-04-2007, 15:10
Deep Striking Assault Cannon/ Heavy Flamer combo works very well. Combine with multiple choices of Teleport homer, and you've got a good chance of going where you need to go.

don_mondo
04-04-2007, 15:23
but what stops me from claiming my DA's are just a codex SM force and include the extra AC in the termie squad?

surely GW will nerf stadard C:SM down to the single AC as well, dontcha think?

Nothing at all. Course, if you do that you don't get all the DA special rules so you're just playing Green Marines.

etham
04-04-2007, 15:31
<----Response to removed comments deleted as it would lead to pointless arguments. WarSeer Inquisition---->

But back on topic, I don't think that an interpretation of the rules that allows you a more powerful force is unimaginative. Quite the opposite, actually. I have seen many posts by people that didn't realize that you can interpret the rules in the ways that you've described here.

Thommy H
04-04-2007, 15:42
I'm just curious why a Codex chapter would have twice as many Terminators (and therefore twice as many heavy weapons) as the Dark Angels . I dont believe they do. 1st Co is 100 marines (give or take) whether DA or Codex. The only difference is DW are all in Terminator armour, and a Codex chapter does not necessarily field all their vets in that way.

I believe the poster you're replying to meant 'twice as many termies per squad' - 10 Terminators is, by Codex, 2 Terminator squads, so they get 2 heavy weapons.


A true Codex chapter would field Terminator squads as 5 man squads (as per the Chapter organisation page in C:SM, which lists 20 (5 man) Terminator squads or 10 (10 man) Veteran squads).

Which is exactly why Dark Angels only get one heavy weapon - they follow Codex organisation almost to the letter, so they get 5-man squads with one heavy weapon, as per the Codex Astartes.

Also, this thread's topic is bizarre - do I still use two heavy weapons? No, and I don't use Terminator Honours, Jink Saves, Stubborn or, for that matter, Guardian squads or Rending Claws. C: DA says one per squad and, if I want to play with C: DA (and I do) then those are the rules.

Onisuzume
04-04-2007, 18:37
Also, this thread's topic is bizarre - do I still use two heavy weapons? No, and I don't use Terminator Honours, Jink Saves, Stubborn or, for that matter, Guardian squads or Rending Claws. C: DA says one per squad and, if I want to play with C: DA (and I do) then those are the rules.
And imo; even if assault cannons didn't have rending I could considder it overpowered.

That being said: I'm currently building an Deathwing army consisting of: 2 assault cannon squads, 2 cyclone missile squads, a dread, a raider and belial.
Hardly overpowered imo; and hopefully competitive enough without having an asscan o' doom army.

And to be honest; I wouldn't include more than one assault cannon per squad even if C: DA allowed it. (I would take multiple cyclones per squad though)

Drasriath
04-04-2007, 21:25
Okay, so what do you say to your opponent who uses two? Or the Eldar who uses three Wraithlords?

I say, 'Damn, I pity the fool who has three wraithlords against an army with termies and ass cannons'

Either way, I think it's important to not build nasty and neigh-unbeatable armies for friendly games. I don't have to ask my opponents. I play with people who I know are honest players that want a good game, which is why I limit myself in taking cheesy stuff, because I know they'll do the same. If I get a game with someone who's all about winning, chances are I won't play with them again.

Either way, like it or not two asscannons deepstriked behind your army with a librarian casting weaken resolve on everyone is still legal, though I imagine that come C:SM redux we won't be seeing much more of it anymore.

Lyinar
04-04-2007, 21:31
I've literally only got one in my Black Templars army, aside from the TL one on the Land Raider Crusader that I've never had a chance to use.

Brother Rickard the Assault Cannon Gunner is in his tank-hunting Terminator Squad to give them some extra punch if I face primarily infantry, and to add his firepower to the CML against vehicles, especially light vehicles where Tank Hunters gives him an effective S7... Combine that with deepstriking, hitting side or rear armour, and the two chainfists in the squad, and they've never turned their attentions to a vehicle and had it survive more than two turns, and that was a Land Raider.