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Orkimedies
06-04-2007, 20:56
greetings, i started playing 40k when i was in the 6th grade, now i am nearly done with college, however i have not played in 4+ years.


currently i have 4000 points of imperial guard as well as some witch hunters, 1850 lost and the damned 1850 tyranids and 3000 chaos.

i have not read the 4th edition rule book yet but i was thinking as a side project to collect an army just for the grand tournement, i was thinking of making an all terminator army because they are small and easy to pack up/collect ect, because all my armies have been swarm armies and i was tired of moving all those guys (i still have over 10,000 points of warhammer fantasy orcs..)

i have the newest chaos space marines codex and i was going to use this to build an all terminator force but then i noticed there is a dark angles codex out, and i remembered they use to field all terminator armies(that sucked)

as well as this i noticed the black templars were out as well

so my question is this, firstly could some one explain to me the advantages of playing a dark angels terminator company over vanilla terminator company or black templar terminator company?

could you make an army of black templar termies that always hit on a 3+ in h2h like in the old book?

with the vanilla list i was thinking something like
venerable dread-hq
3 termy squads- elites
2 scout squads(5 scouts, missile launcher)-troops
then dreads for heavy support.

also this may seem random but is it plausible in the new rules to make an ork army that is defensive/shooty? i know they are not great shooters but in the past i played soooo many blood angels/world eaters/black templar/tyranids ect that an army of slugga boys in cover with lots of shootyness could easily over whelm any assault based army.

Orkimedies
07-04-2007, 06:46
this is a very helpful community

Firedrake Thomas
07-04-2007, 06:58
Few things. First off, you can't have a venerable dread as an HQ. I don't know if you used to be able to, I only started playing this edition. Instead, just have a Commander, Librarian, or Chaplain in Terminator armor (could have a termie command squad too to fit in some more guys).

But yeah, I'm not too familiar with the new DA codex and the rules for Deathwing. I'm sure you could make a powerful terminator army with it, though. I don't know anything about Black Templar termies.

And as for defensive/ shooty Orks, it's entirely possible/ plausible to make. For troops, take a bunch of shoota boyz. Take three mobs of flash gitz for elite, and for heavy support you could loot a tank and stock up on big gunz. Load up on big shootas.
One idea I've heard that sound fun is to take a battlewagon with 5 bolt on big shootas and a mob of flash gitz. It's expensive, but if you upgrade the flash gitz to have the "shootier" option, then at 12" range you can dish out almost 70 strength 5 shots. Although that's more offensive shooty.

Grimdakka
07-04-2007, 14:20
Speaking from my own personal experience, orks can be very shooty indeed. Shoota Boyz, Flash Gitz, Tankbustaz, big Gunz, and Looted Basilisk can put a serious hurt on anybody. Loota Boyz and other looted vehicles are a bit of a crap shoot; maybe they'll do well, but its a gamble.

My personal favorite high risk/high reward unit is my squad of three Buggies with Kustom Megga Blastaz. In one game they vaporized an entire ten man squad of Terminators with one volley. Then the next game they all blew themselves up with over heating by round two.

A solid core of ork shootyness, backed up by some hard close in fighters (like Skar Boyz and/or the Boss and his Nob Squad) can be a devastating force. And you'll often get to pull a nasty surprise on anyone who doesn't think orks can be shooty.

I recommend the assault 2 upgrade for your Gitz. The math is a bit better for them to score more hits and wounds than the S 5, and they get more chances to shoot. It's like orks armed with Storm Bolters.

thewizard99
07-04-2007, 22:40
mm if you feild a all terminator army, you cant have more than 5 men per squad, and a squad cost around 260, so for a standard 1500 points looking at 4 main squads and a commander and squad. can play about, but generaly what i do, feilding assult cannons and flamers in my other squads. generally, the cheeper the squads the better, assult cannon packs i think 30 poinnts where a flamer is only 15, ( guesing here), if u want to move them quickly, land raiders needed, ( there 250 them selfs) so u need to think what u wanna make them do. slow and 6 inches, or fast and 12 inches, or deep strike the buggers

Kerflunc
08-04-2007, 02:27
Templar termies can hit on 3+ but only if you take Emperors champion with the vow but you can't field an army of them Dark angels can still field an all Death Wing army but only if you take the master dude, the difference between DA termies and normal ones is the DA ones can have a combination of assault and normal in the squad but only in fives and the cost more in points.

Rhamag
08-04-2007, 03:29
One of the best things about shooty orks is that big shootas and rokkit launchas are assault weapons. So you can still shoot while advancing into rapid fire range if the shootas aren't doing their long range thang for you. And still smack them up with 2 attacks basic - even without choppas orks are good assault troops.

GraveDancer
08-04-2007, 04:13
Templar termies can hit on 3+ but only if you take Emperors champion with the vow but you can't field an army of them Dark angels can still field an all Death Wing army but only if you take the master dude, the difference between DA termies and normal ones is the DA ones can have a combination of assault and normal in the squad but only in fives and the cost more in points.


...because DW termies are also fearless, and have the DW assault.

if you take a DW master, you can field terminators in both troops and elites slots.

scouts are no longer a troops choice i think i should add.

and DW would theoretically work best when working in concert with Ravenwing.

Firedrake Thomas
08-04-2007, 04:36
I recommend the assault 2 upgrade for your Gitz. The math is a bit better for them to score more hits and wounds than the S 5, and they get more chances to shoot. It's like orks armed with Storm Bolters.

Yeah, but don't forget it's also twice as expensive. :(

just out of boredom and because it sounds interesting, I made a 1500 point list that could be made with the standard SM codex. Sounds like it wouldn't be too bad, actually.

HQ
- Commander Master: Terminator armor, Pair of Lightning Claws
- Terminator x5
+ Heavy Flamer x2
= 350

Elite
- Assault Terminator x6 (4 Lightning Claws, 2 Thunder Hammer & Storm Sheild)
=240

- Terminator x5
+ Assault Cannon x2
=240

- Terminator x5
+ Assault Cannon x2
=240

Troops
- Scout x5
+ Sniper Rifle x4
+ Missile Launcher
=95

- Scout x5
+ Sniper Rifle x4
+ Missile Launcher
=95

Fast Attack
- Land Speeder Tornado: Heavy Bolter, Assault Cannon
=80

- Land Speeder Tornado: Heavy Bolter, Assault Cannon
=80

- Land Speeder Tornado: Heavy Bolter, Assault Cannon
=80

Total: 1500

You could paint is like Deathwing, just use the rules from the standard codex. Although I'll probably be called a heretic for even mentioning that. :p I know the large amount of assault cannons (since you're new to this edition, you might not have heard that they are very powerful in this edition) might seem cheap, but after adding all the terminators and the two troop choices, I was looking to add some more anti-infantry... and three land speeder tornadoes made the list exactly 1500, and provided great anti-infantry while still staying with the deathwing theme.

So yeah, you could consider this list if you want, I think it could do pretty well. The new terminator models are pure awesome, but unfortunately it would all cost a lot to get so many. You can find the old metal ones (the ones you're probably used to) on eBay dirt cheap, though, and in large lots, so it wouldn't take too much to get this army started.

Grimdakka
09-04-2007, 06:08
Yeah, but don't forget it's also twice as expensive. :(

Well yes, but double in this case is only 2 more points per ork, or 30 more per squad (figuring 15 Boyz with Kustom Shootas in a 20 strong mob). Well worth the few extra teef for the added killin' potential.

I've tried Gitz with all of the Kustom jobs at one point or another, and More Dakka has always given the best results.

Shootier doesn't get into range quick enough, and gets miserably few hits when it finally does.

And Blaster often just ends up killing more of your own Boyz than the enemy. Though it can still be a fun scare unit, every once in a while, if you're not worried about handing out free victory points ("My Boyz hunkered down in that ruin have AP 3/2 guns. Come get me power armour boy!").

victorpofa
09-04-2007, 14:11
Here is a sample 1500 point Deathwing Army using the new codex.

HQ - Belial Master of the Deathwing

Interrogator Chaplain in Terminator Armor and Combiflamer

T1 - Deathwing Terminator Squad
4 Storm Bolter and Powerfist
1 Assault Cannon and Power Fist

T2 - Deathwing Terminator Squad
3 Lightning Claws
2 Thunder Hammer and Storm Shield

T3 - Deathwing Terminator Squad
4 Storm Bolter and Powerfist
1 Heavy Flamer

FA1 - Ravenwing Attack Squadron
6 Bikes with Scout and Teleport Homers
Attack Bike with Scout, Teleport Homer and Multimelta
Land Speeder with Heavy Bolter and Assault Cannon

FA2 - Ravenwing Support Squadron
1 Landspeeder with Heavy Bolter and Typhoon Missile Launcher

HS - Predator with Autocannon and Heavy Bolter Sponsons

Hold all your Terminators in reserve and link Belial and the Chappie to the two squads that will use Deathwing Assault. Divide up the attack squad into the 4 units giving 3 units with scout move and teleport homer. Deploy the Ravenwing squads and predator. Use your scout move on the bikes to move forward and Deathwing Assault to drop half your terminators (with Master and Chappie) in front of your bikes (probably squads 2 and 3). The last Deathwing squad can deep strike to any surviving bikes when they come in via reserve roll, and if all bikes are gone deep strike as normal.

Any major problems with this list? Did I figure how to use Deathwing Assault correctly?

victorpofa
09-04-2007, 15:05
The cost of the force I already listed should be about $340 retail. This price uses the normal Terminator Captain for Belial since he is currently not offered by GW :wtf: