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Getifa Ubazza
08-04-2007, 14:28
What im asking for is, what is the single best standard infantry model in the game, for the points it costs.

This is not about its value to the army it comes from, but compared to a basic trooper with no upgrades from every other army. No upgrades include, anything, even frag grenades would count as an upgrade.:eyebrows:

Only TROOP choices count for this.(Sorry Sarigar, my fault)

Please give reasons for your choice.

My choice is a Dark Eldar warrior with splinter rifle for 8pts. In my view, if you compare it to other 8pt models in the game ie. Eldar guardian or Ork shootaboy, the DE warrior is far and away the better value for points.

If that is to boring a question for you, try this one.

Build the best squad leader you can for any TROOP Choice. The only restriction is, that it has to be game legal. Only include final point cost for squad leader please, dont post cost of individual upgrades, its not allowed on Warseer.

Have fun.

DragonPup
08-04-2007, 14:31
Sisters of Battle are a great value. 11 points for a BS4, bolter weilding, faith using, power armored angry nun.

Sarigar
08-04-2007, 14:32
My min sized Fire Dragon squad. 16 Points a model with BS4 Melta Gun. Best 80 points I can spend in my army.

Getifa Ubazza
08-04-2007, 14:35
My min sized Fire Dragon squad. 16 Points a model with BS4 Melta Gun. Best 80 points I can spend in my army.

Fire Dragons are an ELITE choice. Only TROOP choices count, sorry.

Stella Cadente
08-04-2007, 14:37
A single Guardsmen, who else can rapid fire a lasgun, and still manage to take down 2 Chaos terminators in one go alone

noob killer
08-04-2007, 14:40
if you like a shooty army then a tau fire warrior for 10 pts because the pulse rifle is the best basic troop weapon in the game (in my opinion)

but if you like a combat army then you have to go for a geansteler because its I6 S4 T4 WS6 and it has three atacks on the charge with rending. and its you get all that for 16pts.

Da Reddaneks
08-04-2007, 14:41
Kroot Mercenaries (http://us.games-workshop.com/games/40k/tau/gaming/kroot_armylist/assets/krootmerc_list.pdf). At seven points they make the best strength 4 orks in the game. Then add the little things that force you to reroll your "who moves first" roll and that let their entire army infiltrate (with their fleet of foot) you have an entire army that is in hand to hand on their first turn and almost always get the charge. I think it ranks right up there with iron warriors for the power-gaming.

leonmallett
08-04-2007, 14:48
Spinegaunts - a few pts for amodel (okay Synapse required), that Fleets, has a TL BS 3 weapon and okay I. Kill 20 of them? No great loss. That 6 maxed out troop choices can be fielded for less than 1000 pts giving almost 200 models is scary. not necessarily the best, but interesting.

RampagingRavener
08-04-2007, 14:52
My choice is a Dark Eldar warrior with splinter rifle for 8pts. In my view, if you compare it to other 8pt models in the game ie. Eldar guardian or Ork shootaboy, the DE warrior is far and away the better value for points.

I'd agree with you here. DE Warriors are fantasticly versatile, with a good statline (2 points more than a Gaurdsman gets you +1 WS, BS, Ld, +2 I, and Ap5 on their gun) means they can quite realisticly over-run an enemy held objective, then dig in and hold it from counter-attack.


Build the best squad leader you can for any TROOP Choice. The only restriction is, that it has to be game legal. Only include final point cost for squad leader please, dont post cost of individual upgrades, its not allowed on Warseer.

Ork Slugga Boy Nob w/Slugga and Power Klaw. 45 points, and you get a 2-wound model with multiple st8 attacks. That's almost as good as a lot of other races low-level HQ choices. And for a mere 45 points, that's a pretty good bargain.

SwordsofChaos
08-04-2007, 14:56
Gaunts wih fleshborers are deadly, a S4 gun that lets you re-roll failed to-wound rolls all for 6 pts.

Sparda
08-04-2007, 15:10
Id say the best value troop cjoice is the conscript guardsmen. Not a lot of firepower for one guy, but you can have a 50 man squad for under 200 pts!(note: not sure if this counts)

The best leader is a shaper, Id say, with 3 wounds and decent stats? I cant say their not the best.

Onisuzume
08-04-2007, 15:15
Genestealer with extended carapace.
A 20 points close combat nightmare. (WS6 S4 T4 I6 A2 4+ save, rending, fleet on a troop choice)

I could, ofcourse, go totaly "bling-bling" and make it 36 points...
For frag grenades, unsaved wounds are doubled, an extra attack, +1S and scouts.

Huw_Dawson
08-04-2007, 15:34
Wouldn't the best value for points for a common trooper be a Dark Angels space marine? 15 points for a marine profile, grenades, a boltgun and a bolt pistol screams adaptability...

- Huw

EDIT: Onisuzume - no enhancements, so you'd have to have a normal 16 point gribbly. Still up there as nasty though. :p

onnotangu
08-04-2007, 15:44
Necron warrior. got a better chance to get a wound on anything not to mention glance a tank.

Wolflord Havoc
08-04-2007, 15:52
A Marine and his bolt gun is the best all-rounder

Or a Grey hunter if you are being slightly more agressive

Best Squad leader

Wolf Guard Sgt +
Wolf Tooth Necklace (Hit any model on a 3+ in HTH)
Runic Charm (reroll first failed save)
Wolf Pelt (+1 A when counter charging)
Wolf Tail Talisman (Nullifies Psyhics on a roll of a 6)
Bionics
Master crafted Powerfist
Bolt Pistol
Skills: Counter attack, True Grit (irrelivant as not armed with a bolt gun), No matter the odds (ignores outnumbering in HTH), Acute senses.

A steal at 70 points

Venomizer
08-04-2007, 15:56
I've got to pitch another vote for the Necron Warrior - tough as nails, can deal with both infantry & vehicles all in one living metal package

vampires are cool!
08-04-2007, 21:47
Necron warrior is a definate in my opinion, followed closely by the Genestealers, with Khorne bezarkers coming in a solid third.
Necron - light anti tank weaponary coupled with good strength and toughness. Although the get back up ability should not be relied upon, it is never the less, a powerfull asset.
'Steeler - combat monsters without doubt. Rending coupled with their awsom stat lines makes them very unsocial in combat. Their fleet move is also invauable as they have no actual fire power and are some what vunerable to lasgun thickets
Bezarkers - heavy armour, good fighting potential and faster than general infantry. More staying power than Genesteelers, but not as hitalisiuos.

kaimarion
08-04-2007, 21:57
tau fire warrior:
because of there awsome fire power

khorne bezerker:
3+ save plus 3 attacks

Cirenivel
08-04-2007, 22:01
IMHO, the grot gives you the best bang for the buck. Sure, they die in droves, and they aren't likely to hurt a fly, but that's not their purpose, they're there just to be living shields for the bigger, badder orks. Movable cover, that lets you reroll dificult terrain, for a mainly footslogging army with low saves and many bodies? Keep 'em coming.
And the look on your oponents face when they actually kill some big nasty thing is priceless;)

As for the best squad character, I'll have to go with the other dude above, who said that the nob with 'klaw and slugga is the best.

Cirenivel

Bloodknight
08-04-2007, 22:04
I cannot decide. Itīs either the DE warrior or the Kroot.

Tiller5
08-04-2007, 22:07
Sorry, but for tooled-out squad leader, I love my GK Justicar. OK, so he's damn expensive, but then give him Icon of the Just for a 4+ Inv. save, master -craft his S6 power weapon, whack him in with a load of boys and there you go! lovely bit o' close combat goodness!

Kegluneq
08-04-2007, 22:38
I cannot decide. Itīs either the DE warrior or the Kroot.
Out of those two - the DE. Kroot are very limited in the areas they excel in, and they lose out horribly in cityfight games. Selective cover advantages are not cool.

Xenocidal Maniac
09-04-2007, 01:38
The standard bolter-wielding Imperial Marine, hands down.

Entirely undercosted. 3+ save, can wound nearly anything in the game, has the flexibility to carry AT and AP weapons within the same squad, and has the most powerful special rule in the game - And They Shall Know No Fear.

Sisters of Battle come in a close second. For one point more than an IG Storm Trooper you get a 3+ save and a ST 4 AP 5 weapon and faith powers.

TwistedDarkness
09-04-2007, 02:43
Just the Basic Grey kngith Justicar will beat the poop out of any other squad leader in the game, pretty much. Where else do you come with a S6 Power Weapon?

Sergeant Uriel Ventris
09-04-2007, 02:51
Booyah, Marines for the win. Shooty? You got it. Assault? Why not, let's crack some skulls. Super versatile, incredibly effective. There's just no beating them.

Spotty
09-04-2007, 03:04
you wanna know best points? Pathfinders. full squad of them and slap em in a building. and 10 are only 240 pts

Sergeant Uriel Ventris
09-04-2007, 03:07
you wanna know best points? Pathfinders. full squad of them and slap em in a building. and 10 are only 240 pts

That is not a good deal. A squad of 10 Marines, a Sergeant with Terminator Honors and some gear, plus two weapon upgrades is only 200 or so! Plus, I hear if you put a bunch of Pathfinders in a building together for too long you get a bunch of blue-skinned babies. Yuck.

Mr_Smiley
09-04-2007, 10:30
I have to say Necron Warriors, they are equal at shooting than Tau, because of Tau's lower BS, and can walk through any amount of firepower, almost, to get to their objective, also, due to large squad sizes, they can even beat Terminators into submission in close-combat.
Second would have to be Sisters of Battle, good guns, great armour, average stats and Faith points.

TheReaper
09-04-2007, 10:56
Plauge marines I guess since they have 5 t and true grit for only 19pts each

Ronin_eX
09-04-2007, 11:21
The DA tactical marine, they can shoot (the bolter is a good standard weapon), assault (bolt pistol) into cover (frag grenades), survive a great deal of fire (power armour), and threaten light/medium vehicles (krak grenades). Add to that the special weapon, heavy weapon and the versatility of the veteran sergeant along with the ability to split the squad into two groups of specialists and get a transport for them and you have the single most versatile unit in the game. They will work no matter which mission they are given and make a damn good standard unit for a marine army for a mere 15 points.

ironfather512
09-04-2007, 11:34
10 pts fire warrior. longest range standerd rifle in 40k

sgt

space marine
termi honors
plasma pistol
thunder hammer
bionics
75 pts

Askari
09-04-2007, 12:19
Thousand Sons Rubric Marines.

A Space Marine, but with 2 Wounds, for 24pts. Muahahahaha!

Haha no, not really, but they are cool.

And how is a Space Marine a better Troop choice than a Chaos Marine? ATSKNF costs you +1pt and -1Ld.

For Troop Leaders, again Chaos wins...

Grey Knight Justicar has a S6 Power Weapon, pfft who cares.

Aspiring Champion
Mark of Khorne
Juggernaut of Khorne
Feel No Pain
Daemonic Aura
Furious Charge
Pair of Master-crafted Lightning Claws
Spiky Bits
Furious Charge

So, on the charge, that's 6 S6 attacks, with 2 re-rolls to hit, re-roll all failed to wound rolls, with a 3+/5+ save, I5, 2 Wounds, Fearless, can't be picked out of a squad, and ignores any normal wounds on a 4+ Feel No Pain save.

Zander77
10-04-2007, 00:16
Well, for trooper,I would say Dark Eldar warrior just cause I have yet to have an entire squad of them die.

And for squad leader...I have something random, just for kicks.

Dark Eldar syrabite
Shadow Field
Combat Drugs
Tormentor Helm
Trophy Rack
Haywire Grenades
Punisher

Thats a 2+ invulnerable save,on the charge gets 5 strength 4 attacks with power weapon, and if you're crazy, even re-roll misses in close combat. Ahhh I love combat drugs lol. Oh, and even a slight chance to destroy a vehicle

Laughingmonk
10-04-2007, 00:27
I would have to say Eldar jetbikes. They can JSJ just like tau, can take the remarkable shuriken cannon, are fairly resilient, and incredibly fast. All in all a pretty good choice regardless. Furthermore, A warlock can enhance moral and give them pretty decent anti tank capability


Other than that, I would have to say Dark Angels Tactical squads. Free frags and kraks, bolt pistols, and combat squads, along with ludicrously cheap transport options rank them as one of the most versatile and effective troops choices in the game. For those of you who don't think grenades and being able to split squads is a big deal, go play an omega cityfight firesweep mission. Dark angels are beyond reason in Cityfight.

Ronin_eX
10-04-2007, 01:47
And how is a Space Marine a better Troop choice than a Chaos Marine? ATSKNF costs you +1pt and -1Ld.

I'd say the advantages of ATSKNF far outweigh an extra point of leadership. Marines can regroup below 50% strength and if they lose combat and run they wont be wiped out in a sweeping advance or if they are engaged while falling back. The extra point of leadership is also rather moot as all DA squads come with a veteran sergeant so they get the best of both worlds. It is much harder to get a marine squad off the table than it is to get a CSM squad off the table in many cases.

Captain Micha
10-04-2007, 01:53
Dark angel marine

Necron Warrior.. (shame that is one of the only viable units )

Joewrightgm
10-04-2007, 02:14
I'm down with either Plague Marines, Necron Warriors, or a Grey Knight

Ravenous
10-04-2007, 02:27
Feral Ork Madboyz.

7pts S4(S5 with the Dok on a 3+) and fearless.

Sure they do something silly on a 1, but that makes them better!

AyatollahofRockinRolla
10-04-2007, 03:25
I'm going with gretchin, 3 pts each. "Go to ground", cover save for boys, use as stepping stones to let boys move through cover faster and clearing land mines. Plus I once killed a terminator with grot shooting. Not to mention assaulting/tying up a wraithlord for several turns. The ultimate cannon fodder.

Ianos
10-04-2007, 08:23
It makes me wonder how none have noticed the new eldar troop choices.

1)Basic guardian, for 8 points 2 str4 shots and i4 and weapons platform that can move and fire. What is even better is that the entire squad can enter a serpent and move 12" unload in cover and fire the heavy weapon!

2)Avengers for 12 points, like guardians with +6" range, +1bs better +1ws +1in +1ld and as if that was not enough for something like 50 points you can get an exarch with all the tricks and they get a 5+ inv save, +shot and minus one enemy attack like the wyches do!

3)Pathfinders/rangers, these guys where supposed to be elite yet for 19 points rangers can wound anything and get +1 cover, lets not even see what pathfinders do...

4)The king of them all, the guardian jetbike. This one was a fast choice in the prev. codex, now for only 66 points you can get 3 bikes and for 5 more they get a shuriken cannon. They can move 24" and get inv. save, they can dodge in the assault phase after shooting, they can grab last turn objectives, and more importantly they fill one troop slot for only 66 points with small chances of ever dying!

Corax
10-04-2007, 10:12
The standard bolter-wielding Imperial Marine, hands down.

Entirely undercosted. 3+ save, can wound nearly anything in the game, has the flexibility to carry AT and AP weapons within the same squad, and has the most powerful special rule in the game - And They Shall Know No Fear.


I concur. Couldn't have put it better myself. Especially the undercosted part.

Onisuzume
10-04-2007, 12:25
The standard bolter-wielding Imperial Marine, hands down.

Entirely undercosted. 3+ save, can wound nearly anything in the game, has the flexibility to carry AT and AP weapons within the same squad, and has the most powerful special rule in the game - And They Shall Know No Fear.
First of all, DA marines beat vanilla marines.
Second: ATSKNF isn't the most powerful special rule. Synapse has a lot better chance of being it. (Fearless, immune to instant death by S=TŨ2)

MaliGn
10-04-2007, 12:27
surely bezerkers, plague marines, rubric marines etc are Elites unless in a Cult list and all require add-ons in the shape of marks etc.

Gaunts are also out as to be a valid model they MUST purchase an upgrade, rather than being fielded without weapons.

How about Alpha legion cultists 6pts per model, for infiltrate and another skill 2 attacks each (extra close combat weapon).

As for squad leaders

Alpha Legion Chaos Aspiring Champion
mutation, strength, power weapon, spiky bits mk chaos undivided, daemonic venom, frag and krak grenades, visage, resilience, aura, armour, Move through cover and infiltrate

102points for

WS: 4
BS: 4
S: 4 (5)
T: 4 (5)
W: 1
I: 4
A: 2 (3)
Ld: 10
Sv: 2+/5+

wounding on 4+ no matter what, re-roll 1 CC attack per turn and opponent at -1Ld when losing in close combat.

Gabriel
10-04-2007, 15:20
10 wraithguard and a warlock with conceal or enhance. Almost totally immovable. t6!? with enhance you get initiative 5 ws 5, oh and a gun that can kill anything in the game in one shot.

static grass
10-04-2007, 18:38
DA Tactical Marines. They are 15 points! Bolter, bolt pistol, frag and krak, Free veteran sarge with each squad! Cheapo Rhinos no more than 10,000 years on the clock!



Free bath robes!

ancient_conflict
10-04-2007, 21:58
why does everyone over look guardsmen? did anyone not learn from field marshal zukov "quantity has a quality all of its own" and which other army will let you have 330 men in troops choices alone they are fully upgrade-able with the doctorines in the back and they are only 6 pts each

and what about a veteran sergeant with honourifica imperialis, instant heroic senior officer

Corax
11-04-2007, 05:36
As for squad leaders

Alpha Legion Chaos Aspiring Champion
mutation, strength, power weapon, spiky bits mk chaos undivided, daemonic venom, frag and krak grenades, visage, resilience, aura, armour, Move through cover and infiltrate

102points for

WS: 4
BS: 4
S: 4 (5)
T: 4 (5)
W: 1
I: 4
A: 2 (3)
Ld: 10
Sv: 2+/5+

wounding on 4+ no matter what, re-roll 1 CC attack per turn and opponent at -1Ld when losing in close combat.

If you spend 102 pts on a 1 wound model, you want to have your head examined. Sure, he's dead killy, but he only has to fail one saving throw and its bye-bye to 102 pts. That's like 7 extra Chaos Marines! BTW, can he even take that many points of upgrades? Isn't there a 75pt limit on wargear?

Vaktathi
11-04-2007, 05:55
best value bare bones 'Troops' unit? (without upgrades/options etc)

Dark Angels Space Marines or Sisters of Battle methinks.

MaliGn
11-04-2007, 11:11
If you spend 102 pts on a 1 wound model, you want to have your head examined. Sure, he's dead killy, but he only has to fail one saving throw and its bye-bye to 102 pts. That's like 7 extra Chaos Marines! BTW, can he even take that many points of upgrades? Isn't there a 75pt limit on wargear?

I wouldn't actually take it, but yes, he can take that much since his base cost is 27+75=102 oh and apparently veteran skills don't count towards it....

one could fiddle it to a two wound model without too much difficulty

Steel_Legion
11-04-2007, 12:37
10 wraithguard and a warlock with conceal or enhance. Almost totally immovable. t6!? with enhance you get initiative 5 ws 5, oh and a gun that can kill anything in the game in one shot.

Wraithcannon Instant Kills?

Rlyehable
11-04-2007, 13:24
I would suggest that the Eldar Ranger is up there.
Sniper rifle that is AP1 on a 6, +1 cover save.

Axel
11-04-2007, 13:38
SOB for 11 pts (5 pts less then a basic marine for almost similar abilities)
Necron Warrior (3 pts more then a basic marine, but with WBB)

Marines win if you count in their special weapons for the unit and leader, read: they have (imho) the best basic UNIT. As individual soldiers, both Necrons and Sororitas are imho better.

BaBOOM
11-04-2007, 15:14
Marines are no good for their points value if not upgraded, not even DA.

Necron warriors are the best non-upgraded unit in the game. WBB, Gauss, etc.

Otherwise, I'd say Genestealers or DE warriors.

I'd say Fire Warriors, but their lousy CC skills are too damaging for "the best troop choice". Once they enter CC they're gone.

WIppit Guud
11-04-2007, 15:24
No love for day boyz:

Speed Freek Warbike: 30 points for toughness 5, 2 wounds, immunity to pinning/morale, 5+ invuln save, twin-linked big shootas, and fast.

Spotty
11-04-2007, 15:34
That is not a good deal. A squad of 10 Marines, a Sergeant with Terminator Honors and some gear, plus two weapon upgrades is only 200 or so! Plus, I hear if you put a bunch of Pathfinders in a building together for too long you get a bunch of blue-skinned babies. Yuck.

but in a match my pathfinders would ap1 kill all of your marines by the second shooting round..... and still probably be alive

oop
11-04-2007, 17:46
Necron warrior for me... too bad our choices are so small

Onisuzume
11-04-2007, 18:44
How does a Terminator Sound?

Space Marines stats but +1A and +1Ld. 2+/5++ save.
Storm Bolter+Power Fist.
Fearless.
Deep Strike in turn one.
And that for roughly 43 points.

Or a Ravenwing Biker.
Space Marine profile.
SM bike. (includes a twin-linked bolter, gives T5 except for instant-death purposes)
Frags&Kraks.
Teleport Homer.
Fearless.
Scouts.
For only 35 points. (estimated)

Shrike30
11-04-2007, 20:30
Grey Hunters. The flexibility to run either Bolter/True Grit or BP/CCW in your normal troops selection, one assault weapon, a plasma pistol or two, a power weapon/fist or two, a sargeant kitted out however you like (or not), Counter-Attack, Acute Senses, ATSKNF, and taking no leadership penalties for being out numbered in close combat? They can get a bit expensive, but it's not hard to keep them cheap and deadly. Even if you run essentially no upgrades, the fact that they've got double the number of attacks a standard marine will put out helps out a lot in a stand-up fight.

Grey Slayers get a little sick... 3 more points adds on kraks, frags, another attack to the base profile, +1 ld, Scouts, Move Through Cover, and you still get a wicked sargeant (who ALSO gets the bonus attack), but you trade in the nifty pistols and CCWs for a second assault weapon. The army list is pretty restricted, but they're a lot of fun.

I'd put Necron warriors and SoB's in a tight race for second place.

Shrike30
11-04-2007, 20:38
but in a match my pathfinders would ap1 kill all of your marines by the second shooting round..... and still probably be alive

How do you figure? Even assuming the marines aren't smart enough to use cover and the pathfinders aren't getting shot up, I still only see about 3 AP1 shots going downrange a turn from a 10 man pathfinder team.

Madfool2
11-04-2007, 20:44
pah, 30 guardsmen will kill anything.

Maybe.

RTB01
11-04-2007, 22:18
Is this not a pointless thread as the whole point of 40k is not to line up 1 vs 1 but a synthesis of all aspects of a given army? The sum of the whole is greater than the sum of it's parts. An individual guardsman may not be the greatest value for points but you get enough and then factor in tanks and you have a viable army. Feel free to slap me down. :P