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Hawkmoon
12-04-2007, 16:12
To start off let me say that I love GW miniatures. Overall the quality of their models beat pretty much everything out there hands down! If it wasn't for the models I doubt I would be playing the game.
But like any comapny that produces a large variety of products that reley on a certain level of artistic quality some are not going to make the grade and a small handful will be downright awful!

So I'm sure we all have one model or unit of models in the WHFB range that we just can't stand. Some of you may have read my many rants about the Chaos minotaurs in the past so you know that I have no love for them especially the 2 hand weapon ones. In fact, I'm afraid to say, that I feel the overwhelming urge to scream "BIG FLOPPY FEET!" and then proceed to melt them whenever I see them.

But what about the rest of you? Which is/are your most hated model/s in the fantasy range?

Corai
12-04-2007, 16:16
I don't know if it's till in the current range but the undead wight lord on undead Camel was pretty dire. That and Ogre Yheties.

thanks
Corai

Joewrightgm
12-04-2007, 16:29
minotaurs. That and Dragon Ogres, not Shaggoths, the lil 'uns.

The boyz
12-04-2007, 16:31
I'm not to keen on some of the new O&G character models. The WE Treeman looks a bit naff too.

Quin 242
12-04-2007, 16:33
To start off let me say that I love GW miniatures. Overall the quality of their models beat pretty much everything out there hands down!

Have you actually looked around?
Rackham mini's blow GW mini's away.. and a few other companys are right up there.
But GW has some of the best Background and thier universe is better filled out.

vampires are cool!
12-04-2007, 16:36
The old Carnifex and Hive Tyrant were rather poor - thank god they changed them.
I'm not fond of the Skaven Plague Priest or the Von Carstien Vampires.

Arhalien
12-04-2007, 16:39
Rackham mini's blow GW mini's away.. and a few other companys are right up there.


I'd say some of Rackham's models blow GW away. Others I find are pretty poor, and others are just terribly posed (Drune Kelt things with big axes anyone?). I suppose that it's also a matter of taste; I like GW's style of models, and don't like the styles of other manufacturers such as Rackham, Infinity or PP.

On topic; isn't there already a thread for this going round?

Bregalad
12-04-2007, 16:49
Almost the whole Vampire range is below standard and urgently needs a revamp ;)
And there ARE many non-GW ranges with a very good quality like Rackham, Gamezone Miniatures, MSB, Fenryll, Magnificent Egos, Warcrow, and so on. That said, some GW ranges like the Wood Elves are top quality.

Hawkmoon
12-04-2007, 17:00
I'd say some of Rackham's models blow GW away.Others I find are pretty poor, and others are just terribly posed

You beat me to it.

I have looked around and I agree there are a lot of decent models from other companies out there. But for consistant top quality models to fit their style of wargame GW's are the best.

I agree that there are a lot of Rackham models that look really great. (The Samurai/ninja goblins come to mind.) But for a system that has single models running around on their own all the time, many of their miniatures look rather 2d and often have very static poses.


On topic; isn't there already a thread for this going round?

No, there isn't.

.....because I didn't start it. :angel:

Falkman
12-04-2007, 17:02
Chaos ogres, there isn't even any competition.

grg3d
12-04-2007, 17:09
What? I thought Nagash would be on top of everybody's list

Wildkard
12-04-2007, 17:16
It has to be the original Treeman...the one that looked like a stick with a smily face on it!

Sai-Lauren
12-04-2007, 17:34
What? I thought Nagash would be on top of everybody's list

I'm surprised it took until post 11 for someone to even mention Sideshow Bob ;)

I think some of the war machines they've done over the years have been a bit ridiculous - the original Anvil of Doom for one (the one on wheels), and I much prefer the old, small, 3rd edition Flamecannon (with the cowering crew) over it's much bigger replacement.

The original Von Carstein Vamp looks a bit goofy, but I'm not too unhappy with the current ones - admittedly they're probably more inspired by Buffy than Dracula, especially the Lahmians.

Poukis
12-04-2007, 17:39
Yhetees and Dragon ogres come near... I would say Yhetees because they are new minis and gw just screwed them... The ogres are older...
Cheers!
EDIT: I am talking about the current range though... There is an older mini that makes me want to throw acid to my eyes but I can't remember it (my mind must have blocked it out)

Quin 242
12-04-2007, 17:41
The several versions of the Female Inquisitor.. WTF???

Lady's Champion
12-04-2007, 17:44
I would say Chaos Ogres for being ugly

and the new plastic Orc heroes- they are just lame, no character, no detail, just lame

Nagash, however, is MINT

TheWarSmith
12-04-2007, 18:23
I would say that the average Rackham metal miniature beats the average GW metal miniature. I think that's a better way to put it.

You also have to consider that Rackham doesn't have to sculpt NEARLY as many miniatures as GW, and being a French company, I think they're somehow able to get more artistic talent(that's probably pretty ignorant though).

Let's try to keep this to CURRENT models, as I could list TONS.

I'd say the current beastman Bestigors(not nurgle or khorne). They're just bloody UGLY and horrible.

grg3d
12-04-2007, 18:46
Ok I didn’t know there was a time frame/limit on what range we could nominate for the most ugly, I must have missed that FAQ :p

So

It’s got to be for WFB = Chaos Ogres

It’s got to be for 40k = The New Chaos Possessed Marines

Arhalien
12-04-2007, 18:48
It’s got to be for WFB = Chaos Ogres

It’s got to be for 40k = The New Chaos Possessed Marines

Agreed on both counts. The Chaos Ogres are poorly posed and badly sculpted. The Chaos Possessed are overly cartoony and again badly posed.

Stouty
12-04-2007, 19:28
Gods, I'd forgotten about the chaos ogres. I remember them coming out and being shocked by a complete lack of SMS. They won't get revamped for an age now as well. I'm not usually one to develop a strong negative oppinion on models but yikes.

Weregerbil
12-04-2007, 19:42
Nagash wins this hands down.

Sandlemad
12-04-2007, 19:56
The chaos ogre champion is tolerable, in fact I rather like him, but the hunched over excuses for big guys that make up the rest of the unit are rather embarassing. Funnily enough, I can say the very same for the Yhetees.:rolleyes:

I'd have to say the Bestigors too. Rather old at this stage but still in circulation. The chainmail hoods and long-hafted axes are a nice idea but just really, really badly executed.
Them or perhaps the Lahmian Vampires. Presumably it takes a lot less to seduce an old worlder than any other red-blooded being.

Marcel
12-04-2007, 20:05
Rakham models blow alot of the GW stuff away. but GW has the plastic game on lock.
my vote goes for the yhetees, minotaurs and VC characters.

Rider-Of-Kurnous
12-04-2007, 20:24
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm Definetly the clasic wood elf forest spirits they look like great big blodges of.. of.. well just great big blodges!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!

kyussinchains
12-04-2007, 21:49
I love the dragon ogre models, good job really seeing as I have 6 of them...

I dont particularly enjoy the work of Gary Morley, I feel his sculpts dont capture motion in the same way as many others and end up looking rather unrealistic as a result, Nagash and the old Orion spring to mind as fairly poor models which I dislike

Albrecht Hexenjaeger
12-04-2007, 21:55
The entire Dark Elf range look like rejects from an '80's metal band album cover!:evilgrin:

kyussinchains
12-04-2007, 21:59
The entire Dark Elf range look like rejects from an '80's metal band album cover!:evilgrin:

you seriously dont think the executioners are some of the most beautiful models GW have ever produced??!!

Rikka Rakka
12-04-2007, 22:18
The Wood Elf guy stood on the back of the eagle springs to mind. What IS happening to his face?

Rikka Rakka
12-04-2007, 22:19
On second thoughts, Wizard on fire could be a rcent addition to this un fortunate pantheon.

Granitearm
12-04-2007, 22:41
the undead wight lord on undead Camel

Oh man, that sounds too good. You don't have a picture of it do you?

Tutore
12-04-2007, 22:49
Idiot high elven archers. I don't field them not only because they are ineffective, but also because they are ugly!!

TheWarSmith
12-04-2007, 23:33
Tutore, how could you possibly hope a mage to be effective when they dont' know what gender they are?

Tsot
12-04-2007, 23:42
no one has mentioned galrauch yet? *barf*

Harry
12-04-2007, 23:59
Perhaps we could just merge this with all the other 'which sculptor is ****' threads.

HERE IS SOME OF WHAT I HAVE SAID ON THIS TOPIC IN THE PAST

"No on is saying you can not dislike a sculpt.
No one is even saying you can not come here and say you don't like it.
All I am saying is you can't just slag it off in a couple of words and give the sculptors the credit they deserve for the time, care and talent that has gone into its creation."

"I just think we should cut them some slack. Even on a bad day. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and to voice it on a forum but let us do it in an intelligent and fair minded way expaling carefully why we were disappointed not in a glib, sarcastic way as others have. I think these artists, writers, sculptors have earned that we give them that much respect."

"My problem is when someone looks at six months work and takes the ****. Comes up with some smart **** remark or just says I think 'it stinks'. This simply is not fair. (You can not write off six months work with two words and be fair!) These guys are some of the best at what they do. They work with huge enthusiasm and try their very best to get it right sometimes under ludicrous design restrictions that you would not believe if I tried to describe them to you. Sometimes against all their instincts as artists and sculptors as to how they would do them given the creative freedom to do so."

AND FROM DR DEATH (Who is better with words than I am)

"This I wholeheartedly agree with. Critique and commentry is good but derogatory comments do not such make. Granted they are getting paid for it but none the less the sculpter has taken the time and invested themselves into creating the sculpts and so one should tread carefully and courteously around discarding that effort. I think people should analyse their complaints before presenting them so as to clarify the specific bad points of a model so those specifics can be challanged or agreed with".

Dr Death[/QUOTE]

Sergeant Uriel Ventris
13-04-2007, 00:19
Oh, come on, Harry. I think everyone is more than perfectly justified in making fun of the crap that happens to slide through quality control. They aren't making fun of the artists; we know that everyone can have a bad sculpt or something. Some minis just look bad, and there's nothing wrong with saying so. We're not going to the artists homes and kicking them in the shins or something.

*whew*

Anyway. I would love it if someone could post and old Nagash picture, I can't find one on the 'net. I think the worst models still in production are the skeletons. They are a core troop and they look retarded. Poor Undead and Tomb Lord players... *pats them on the head in sympathy*

WillFightForFood
13-04-2007, 02:53
A lot of the older sculpts need to be taken in context of the time when considering their look. Now the High Elf Archers... They look like they are wearing giant foam hands that should have a big "HE #1" on them.

Marcel
13-04-2007, 04:20
glarauch looks like roadkill.

exsulis
13-04-2007, 04:31
I think most of the VC range looks pretty aweful. Then theres a few in the chaos range I'm not too keen on. I know some of this is due to just the limitations on what could be produced at that time.

Lord_Byron
13-04-2007, 05:20
I'd have to say that I hate the Ogre Kingdoms Scraplauncher the most. Not because it's ugly, but because you need to have a masters degree in civil engineering, four hands, and the patience of Ghandi to put one together evenly... seriously the most challenging modeling project I've ever undertaken.

As far as ugly goes, the Ogre Kingdoms Yhetee models are hideous enough to cause fear in the most debased of Nurgle worshipers. I hacked the faces off of my Yhetees and rebuilt them with green stuff. They look much, much better, and I'm a very, very poor sculptor.

DaBrode
13-04-2007, 05:22
Harry,

Everyday of the week and twice on Sunday I got yer back on these forums. Your insight is generally spot on with my opinion and therefore i find i agree with you often.

...but those Yhetee's suck...and yes they suck THAT bad.

DaBrode
13-04-2007, 05:23
I'd have to say that I hate the Ogre Kingdoms Scraplauncher the most. Not because it's ugly, but because you need to have a masters degree in civil engineering, four hands, and the patience of Ghandi to put one together evenly... seriously the most challenging modeling project I've ever undertaken.

As far as ugly goes, the Ogre Kingdoms Yhetee models are hideous enough to cause fear in the most debased of Nurgle worshipers. I hacked the faces off of my Yhetees and rebuilt them with green stuff. They look much, much better, and I'm a very, very poor sculptor.

Quoted for truth! All of it!

Rioghan Murchadha
13-04-2007, 05:54
You have to consider.. Half the time the sculptors are working from concept 'art' like the absolute dreck that John Blanche manages to somehow wrangle onto a page with a pencil taped to one of his flippers..

Da GoBBo
13-04-2007, 07:16
bah, can't blame another for pore sculpting.

I'd have to say the giant squig comming up looks pretty darn ugly, especially with gobbla looking so well.

Tutore
13-04-2007, 07:26
Tutore, how could you possibly hope a mage to be effective when they dont' know what gender they are?


You can always say they are bisex, in some armies it´s ok :D :D

Harry
13-04-2007, 07:36
Harry,

Everyday of the week and twice on Sunday I got yer back on these forums. Your insight is generally spot on with my opinion and therefore i find i agree with you often.

...but those Yhetee's suck...and yes they suck THAT bad.

LOL It might be fair to say that the Yhetees are not the best sculpts ever to come out of Games Workshop. It might even be true to say that they draw into the mouth by contracting the muscles of the lip and mouth to make a partial vacuum. However....

What I am saying is please explain why you think this rather than just saying they suck.
After the time and effort, AND skill that has gone into sculpting them is it not only fair to take more than a one liner to dismiss them.

I have no idea what you do for a living but if your line manager (never mind a member of the public) where to look at your last month, or two months work and say. I'm sorry but your ****, You suck, etc. You would be, rightly, upset. You would want to know why they felt this way.

So all I am suggesting is instead of 'They suck' we choose our words more carefully. Thats all.

My problem is with a lack of respect, courtesy and good manners rather than peoples opinions.

Tarian
13-04-2007, 08:29
Well, my personally most disliked model that I own is the "male" High Elf Mage on the column of fire. I understand that High Elves are not the most... manly characters, but he is seriously disturbing. Of course, it might not help that I had the sudden urge to throw some Blood Red lipstick on him while I was painting. *shudder* After repainting it, I can't look at the model the same anymore, since it still looks like a drag queen.

kyussinchains
13-04-2007, 12:21
my particular beef with most of gary morley's sculpts (not being a regular reader of white dwarf, I'm not even sure if he works for the company any more) is the lack of dynamism, they look very static and it seems that he has trouble incorporating motion into his sculpts, it's not a big deal for rank and file troops, but when this transfers into models which are obviously meant to be army centrepieces such as nagash and the older orion model it's just not satisfying.

Nagash was admittedly one of Gary's first models, but Orion apparently was based on the fantastic piece of Mark Gibbons artwork... it didn't do it justice in any way, shape or form!

oh and I'm an electronic engineer by trade, I design safety critical systems for the rail industry, I regularly work on year long projects which then get shelved because somebody in the industry changes the standard, or the job doesnt get bought by somebody.

You have to be able to take stern criticism in any industry if you call yourself a professional. Your work should be of a high standard, and it isnt wrong of people to EXPECT a high standard. There are entire companies set up in my particular field to criticise and analyse potential products, and they are BRUTAL, I've seen people work on a project for 5 years, then have it taken to bits in front of their eyes.

Maybe the sculptors would either turn out less sub-standard tripe or get the message that they cant hack it if their bosses WERE harsher with them. There are numerous users on here with more sculpting talent in their little fingers than Gary Morley and Brian Nelson put together, so it's not like there arent other people capable of taking the roles on!

my 2 cents

Sherlocko
13-04-2007, 12:42
Some of Morley stuff are pretty nice(shadowblade and blind eltharion springs to mind) but I tend to agree with you because most of his sculpts are pretty bad.

Arhalien
13-04-2007, 12:46
Some of Morley stuff are pretty nice(shadowblade and blind eltharion springs to mind) but I tend to agree with you because most of his sculpts are pretty bad.

Morly did the Eltharion model? That's more than pretty nice IMO :)

monkey child
13-04-2007, 12:55
I can`t understand this whole mentality of " the sculpters have worked really hard for X months on the mini they desreve some credit" if some one makes minis as a hobby, and posts them up for C&C by all means people should point out their good points and point out where there could be improvement.

But these sculpters are getting paid, its a job. If some one was to take a job say in a factory making TV and none of these TV`s worked, who would honestly say " well they put a lot of effort into making that, lets look at the good points, the packaging is nice, its shiny, but next time you could try making it work". They are making a product, and and some sculpters consistantly make a poor job of designing this product. They arn`t doing us a favour in making these minis we`re paying good money for a service and when that service is sub standard we have every right to point this out.

I personally would have to go for the VC range for the most hated, they just look odd.

Harry
13-04-2007, 12:59
my particular beef with most of gary morley's sculpts (not being a regular reader of white dwarf, I'm not even sure if he works for the company any more) is the lack of dynamism, they look very static and it seems that he has trouble incorporating motion into his sculpts, it's not a big deal for rank and file troops, but when this transfers into models which are obviously meant to be army centrepieces such as nagash and the older orion model it's just not satisfying.

Nagash was admittedly one of Gary's first models, but Orion apparently was based on the fantastic piece of Mark Gibbons artwork... it didn't do it justice in any way, shape or form!

oh and I'm an electronic engineer by trade, I design safety critical systems for the rail industry, I regularly work on year long projects which then get shelved because somebody in the industry changes the standard, or the job doesnt get bought by somebody.

You have to be able to take stern criticism in any industry if you call yourself a professional. Your work should be of a high standard, and it isnt wrong of people to EXPECT a high standard. There are entire companies set up in my particular field to criticise and analyse potential products, and they are BRUTAL, I've seen people work on a project for 5 years, then have it taken to bits in front of their eyes.

Maybe the sculptors would either turn out less sub-standard tripe or get the message that they cant hack it if their bosses WERE harsher with them. There are numerous users on here with more sculpting talent in their little fingers than Gary Morley and Brian Nelson put together, so it's not like there arent other people capable of taking the roles on!

my 2 cents

So you want to use as examples two sculpts both done over 10 years ago.
How long must Gary Morley be judged by his earliest work???

Can you even name any Morley sculpts from the last ten years???

Would you like to be judged today on the work you were doing 10 years ago. (if indeed you were working ten years ago) If you were I imagine you would like to think you have got a bit better.

If we are going to judge his work (EDIT) let us look at his last few projects. Thats only fair.

Whilst your about it would you care to name some of the 'sub standard tripe' that Brian Nelson has been churning out recently or is that just more name calling and mud slinging from the cheap seats.

You don't know the work he has done and you have no idea about the standards he is set or those he sets himself.

If you want your 2 cents to be taken seriously by anybody you need to try and make some effort to ensure that it is an informed 2 cents otherwise you just make yoursellf look foolish.

Mozzamanx
13-04-2007, 13:00
I really like the Yhetee models...


Anywho, the chaos ogres are total carp and the strigoi vampires arent much better

ZeroTwentythree
13-04-2007, 15:34
Would you like to be judged today on the work you were doing 10 years ago. (if indeed you were working ten years ago) If you were I imagine you would like to think you have got a bit better.

If we are going to judge him let us look at his last few projects. Thats only fair.


To be fair to the topic in general, most of the conversation has been about which figures people dislike.

Also, there I usually see even more comments (not just in "favorite model" threads, but in rumors, the painting & modeling section, etc.) where praise is heaped upon various figures. As other people have said, when working as a professional, people have to deal with the fact that they are going to be judged on their work, and receive both positive and negative feedback.




I can`t understand this whole mentality of " the sculpters have worked really hard for X months on the mini they desreve some credit" if some one makes minis as a hobby, and posts them up for C&C by all means people should point out their good points and point out where there could be improvement.


I agree, but in contrast it seems like there is almost a lack of criticism when we amateurs post our modeling & painting on the forums. There are fewer people willing to say even something constructive yet critical to the hobbyist, and I have a feeling some of the comments made here would have been phrased differently (or not made) if made directly to the sculptors.

Sai-Lauren
13-04-2007, 15:49
You have to consider.. Half the time the sculptors are working from concept 'art' like the absolute dreck that John Blanche manages to somehow wrangle onto a page with a pencil taped to one of his flippers..

I nearly burst out laughing on reading that. :p

I just thought of another - the new empire range, especially the general and engineer on clockwork horse. Not because the're bad sculpts (they're not great, but not the worst), but because they have far too much bling all over them.
Keep the lines nice and clean please.

Also, they're probably more suitable for a 40k AM or Inquisitor force than WFB with all the cherubs, clockwork and so on. I mean, when did the Empire leave the late middle-ages and hit the middle of the industrial revolution, during a renaissance nostalgia period?


Can you even name any Morley sculpts from the last ten years???
Aren't the CSM possessed his? And IIRC, the Striking Rabbits were his too.

But considering GW don't tend to reveal who sculpts what these days, it's a little difficult.

Harry
13-04-2007, 16:24
To be fair to the topic in general, most of the conversation has been about which figures people dislike.

Also, there I usually see even more comments (not just in "favorite model" threads, but in rumors, the painting & modeling section, etc.) where praise is heaped upon various figures. As other people have said, when working as a professional, people have to deal with the fact that they are going to be judged on their work, and receive both positive and negative feedback.


I say again.....

I don't have a problem with positive and negative feedback I am suggesting is people to say why and show some manners.
(Its Cr@p doesn't cover it!)

In Short.:

DO AS YOU WOULD BE DONE BY

Destris
13-04-2007, 16:42
Harry speaks teh truth.

Do you guys know how much overtime the sculptors put in to get the models finished, because they want to get them out here to us guys?

They spend their spare time, where they could be doing something totally different, slaving away trying to get stuff out for us guys. Give them some uber-respect. :)

It's OK to call a model cr@p, but at least say a good point about the sculptor as well, and say how the model could improve. That way if the sculptor sees it, it tells them that people are committing to properly studying their work, and are giving them points to improve on.

D.

Angelwing
13-04-2007, 16:43
I say again.....

I don't have a problem with positive and negative feedback I am suggesting is people to say why and show some manners.
(Its Cr@p doesn't cover it!)

In Short.:

DO AS YOU WOULD BE DONE BY

seconded.
none of the sculpters at GW are 'crap'. If anyone thinks they are , then they should put their money where their mouth is and show us how good at sculpting they are.:mad:
As for Gary Morley, stop hacking away at his work from over 10(?) years ago. yep, nagash and orion didnt live up to the expectation of the codex artwork, and could be considered poor compared to what he produces now. I know my painting skills of 10 years ago were poor compared to what i can do now, and i dont consider myself a good painter, just competent.
In general if you have nothing to say beyond 'its crap' dont bother to speak/type at all. At the very least you should say that its not to your taste/ expectation.

Ender Shadowkin
13-04-2007, 16:49
I'd have to say that I hate the Ogre Kingdoms Scraplauncher the most. Not because it's ugly, but because you need to have a masters degree in civil engineering, four hands, and the patience of Ghandi to put one together evenly... seriously the most challenging modeling project I've ever undertaken.


LOL :D I have one of those, but until I get the other two (including DNA infusion) I think I will pass on giving it a go.

The Model I care the least for is the New Giant. I just don't like that bloated belly, It looks unballnced to me and just more silly than scary, and not silly in a good way. It particularly bothers me because this model is available to so many army lists so there should be lots of them around, all with the same lopsided belly precarioulsy swinging to one side.. I think they should have had at least one other Alt. Belly for such a general model, BTW I do like all of the other parts.

spikedog
13-04-2007, 16:58
Hmm... I really dislike the new Trolls, especially the Bfsp one, I mean I know it is a flat sculpt but come on. I hate the new way they are taking the Trolls, making them look all LotR. I like my Trolls with some character, like the old river ones.

I also dislike all of the current VC Necromancers, they were fine back in herohammer where every character was a combat monster and wielded a magic sword but now they just don't cut it. You could just say that they haven't aged very well at all.

monkey child
13-04-2007, 16:59
I say again.....

I don't have a problem with positive and negative feedback I am suggesting is people to say why and show some manners.
(Its Cr@p doesn't cover it!)

In Short.:

DO AS YOU WOULD BE DONE BY

I would agree to an extent, I would hope if I ever posted up my sculpts people would make comments in a polite way.

However theres the whole issue that my sculpts arn`t official, people will not have to buy them if they want to use that unit in an official tournament, my sculpts are just my interpretaion of the unit not the new official vision, my sculpts wont be replacing a sculpt that a lot of people may have liked, which may force them to pay extra for the minis they did like because theyre now classics. When a professional sculpter does a sculpt all these things may apply which I think makes people understandbly annoyed.

And as its unlikely that the sculpters are even listening to any of our feedback it makes us less inclined to sit down and list all the good and bad points of a mini and more inclined to just state our opinions in a more matter of fact sort of way.

ZeroTwentythree
13-04-2007, 17:10
none of the sculpters at GW are 'crap'. If anyone thinks they are , then they should put their money where their mouth is and show us how good at sculpting they are.:mad:



Poor logic.

For example I pick an chose the music I purchased based on what I like and dislike. Am I not allowed to dislike musicians because I can't play an instrument? I don't write movies or television shows. Am I not allowed to call something I dislike "crap"?

Art is subjective, everyone's allowed to have their opinion. Artists - at least any that wish to retain their sanity, IMHO - have to understand that some people are going to call them crap, others are going to adore them.

(I went through a fine arts education, work in the field in which I studied, and deal with clients with no background or abilities of their own judging my work on a daily basis, so I experience this from both sides.)


Edit: Also, I'm not disagreeing with Harry or anyone else, in theory. It would be a happy and groovy world if everyone could be all cool with each other and use polite language. But at the same time, as an "artist" who has to produce for living, if someone is really displeased with something, I'd rather have them come out and say it rather than beat around the bush. I know everything I do isn't a masterpiece, and I'd hope the sculptors at GW and other companies know it about their own work.

Harry
13-04-2007, 17:18
Sometimes sculptors do read your comments. Thats why I encourage people to choose their words more carefully.

A few carelessly chosen words can spoil your whole day.

A few carefully chosen words might encourage you to even higher standards.

Angelwing
13-04-2007, 17:21
if the sculpters were not good at their jobs, they woudnt be employed in he first place. I might dislike stuff, but i wouldnt call it rubbish unless i could do better myself. yep, everyone has an opinion, and if they dont like it, fine. I would like to see 'i dont understand it' 'i dont like the pose' 'it doesnt capture my ideas of the subject' . Not 'its rubbish mate'

The Dark One
13-04-2007, 17:22
i have been thinking about ths thread for a while now, and i can't think of a single model that i hate or even dislike.

Destris
13-04-2007, 17:40
Sometimes sculptors do read your comments. Thats why I encourage people to chose their words more carefully.

A few carelessly chosen words can spoil your whole day.

A few carefully chosen words might encourage you to even higher standards.


if the sculpters were not good at their jobs, they woudnt be employed in he first place. I might dislike stuff, but i wouldnt call it rubbish unless i could do better myself. yep, everyone has an opinion, and if they dont like it, fine. I would like to see 'i dont understand it' 'i dont like the pose' 'it doesnt capture my ideas of the subject' . Not 'its rubbish mate'

All QFT.

Anyone who calls models rubbish with careless words should be burnt by the Inqusition. Yes, I am just wondering what these tags do. ;)

D.

kyussinchains
13-04-2007, 21:49
So you want to use as examples two sculpts both done over 10 years ago.
How long must Gary Morley be judged by his earliest work???

Can you even name any Morley sculpts from the last ten years???

well, the possessed chaos space marines spring to mind, they're better than some of his other stuff, but I still can't say they impress me, also the Jan Van Yastobaal model suffers from my main complaint, a lack of dynamism, although he's modelled as running he still looks very static

I dont think Gary Morley is a terrible sculptor, just that his work is not quite of the same standard as some of the other GW sculptors


Would you like to be judged today on the work you were doing 10 years ago. (if indeed you were working ten years ago) If you were I imagine you would like to think you have got a bit better.


I was only 16 ten years ago, so obviously no, I was not doing the work I am doing today, however in ten years time I will have no doubt gained more experience and skills, but I would hope that the work I currently undertake will stand up compared to that. What I am saying is that you should work to your ability, When I was a raw gradute, I would not be put in charge of a life-critical system. Obviously Gary has improved, but back when he was relatively new to the company he was given some very high standard work, which in my opinion he struggled with.



If we are going to judge his work (EDIT) let us look at his last few projects. Thats only fair.

will do, As well as the aforementioned sculpts, I believe he was responsible for the most recent high elf range, again a range which I think suffers in comparison to the previous range. Admittedly those elves are also now getting a bit old



Whilst your about it would you care to name some of the 'sub standard tripe' that Brian Nelson has been churning out recently or is that just more name calling and mud slinging from the cheap seats.

I would cite the yhetees as one of the main bad models, although admittedly I love most of the maneaters, I'm not particularly impressed with the ogre bulls myself.



You don't know the work he has done and you have no idea about the standards he is set or those he sets himself.

apart from the ogres I'm not really certain, and of course I have no clue about his personal standards, I also wasnt saying everything he sculpted is bad, just some of it

my considered words for Gary Morley would be to endeavour to capture more motion in his sculpts, detail wise, they are typically fine, but the poses leave a little to be desired.

Brian Nelson is a talented sculptor, I would like to see more consistency, he can obviously sculpt, and I wouldnt have anything bad to say if all his models displayed the same levels of talent! I am personally of the opinion that Brian's early orcs were bad, too cartoonish to my eyes, and unfortunately it seems to me that the newer ranges of greenskins have been influenced by this. Although having said that, perhaps the concept art he was working to is to blame.

nanktank
15-04-2007, 01:21
Sometimes sculptors do read your comments. Thats why I encourage people to chose their words more carefully.

A few carelessly chosen words can spoil your whole day.

A few carefully chosen words might encourage you to even higher standards.

Well Ill choose my words carefully when I add my 2 cents on the model I believe is a poor sculpt in the hope that if they make this model again in the future they can learn from what is wrong with the current version.

The current orc warboss multipart plastic fantastic kit, while it has all the options you could ever want for a warboss, and a BSB even. Doesn't fit in with the fluff in the O&G army book as to physical size. A warboss is supposed to be the biggest toughest orc of the lot of them, this one looks like he would have trouble beating up a couple of goblins. My current boss is the boargut facebeater model, and I was excited when the new boss came out, but I was very dissappointed when I opened the box to find this little weedy model.

2_heads_talking
15-04-2007, 01:54
Not to sound like I am badmouthing the sculptors or Gw in general, there unfortunately is more than one model from the WFB range that I cannot stand:

1. The new O&G general: the model is dull and lifeless. The great one handed axe just simply does not seem in proportion with the rest of the model's body (by which I mean, he looks like he's about to drop it its so unwieldy). Oh, and the Orc head with one tooth missing? In my opinion, it is the worst plastic head GW have ever released. The Orc simply does not look right; rather than give the impression of a battl-scarred general, he just seems as though he's suffering from "stupidity".

2. The new Orc wizards, with no teeth: I simply dislike these based upon the idea that Orcs would not have teeth. They grow back continually throughout the life of the Orc, so why would pulling them out make the Orc suitably "mystic"? A wasted opportunity in my opinion.

And finally:

3. The plastic giant. The only reason I feel this is because I prefer the original, metal giant, complete with beer barrel. I know this model has received hideous amounts of bad press, so I'm not jumping on the band wagon; I simply feel that to look at the model, even when compared to its second incarnation, the model is simply "ugly".

Hope that those are good enough reasons for you all.

Voltaire
15-04-2007, 09:45
I do not harbour bad feelings towards any miniatures because I honestly believe there is some use for every model out there. People used to say the War Altar and Volkmar were bad miniatures until they saw the same model with a much better paint job for the new book. It was a pleasant surprise to see such a classic model coming back in such a good way. Its all terrible conjecture at the end of the day. If you see a good sculpt painted poorly or presented poorly it will ruin the sculpt.

My least favourite model in the WFB range at the moment is...Galrauch. The only reason I don't like the model is because I think its current pose is very poor and doesn't lend itself well to less experienced hobbyists who want to mount their Lord on a dragon without resorting to Egrimm Van Horstmann.

My favourite model at the moment has to be the Tomb Kings Giant with the skeletons on its head. It looks like a giant jiving Lilt Lady.

Sleazy
15-04-2007, 12:17
why this over protection of sculpters feelings? they are professionals and i suppose "artists" so its there for critisizm.

Why is it ok to rip a video game to shreds, slaughter Goto for his writing but not ok to say you think a model is crap?

for the record you can quote me as saying...

the Yethees are terrible sculpts
Cradle of Filth are useless
Stephen King is overrated
John Blanches art is the worst GW have.

whats the difference?

Crube
15-04-2007, 12:23
Personaly, I dislike the old Nagash model intensely - but that to me is the point - it's a personal opinion. I know a few people who actually quite liked that model when it came out...


(actually, as an aside, does anyone else think that the nagash model looks like Xykon the Liche out of the Order of the Stick webcomic?)

Freakiq
15-04-2007, 12:56
There's a lot of hate againt Gary Morly, I myself don't think he's a bad sculptor, the chaos posessed surwe look bad, but that's because it's a bad concept, they are still well sculpted.

Arhalien
15-04-2007, 16:08
why this over protection of sculpters feelings? they are professionals and i suppose "artists" so its there for critisizm.

Why is it ok to rip a video game to shreds, slaughter Goto for his writing but not ok to say you think a model is crap?

for the record you can quote me as saying...

the Yethees are terrible sculpts
Cradle of Filth are useless
Stephen King is overrated
John Blanches art is the worst GW have.

whats the difference?

But how is that at all useful? The point is not that they shouldn't be criticised, but that there shouldbe some substance to the criticism rather than just someone on a forum saying it's terrible.
If you put time and effort into a piece of work just to have somebody who probably knows very little about your work rubbishing it with a single word you'd feel upset and angry. If this person said what in aprticular they didn't like then you could take that advice on board and produce something even better next time.

While this may be a bit rambling, the point I'm trying to make is that single word criticising of a model isn't constructive and won't help anyone.

Jonahmaul
15-04-2007, 17:06
Voltaire you git, I got all the way to the last page & nobody mentioned the Bone Giant which I was going to & then you spoil it!! I think that hat is absolutley terrible & makes the model look well stupid but then when you take it away & with some good posing it is actually a good model.

I don't really know what models particular sculptors have done (or even who a lot of GW sculptors are!) but I would never slag off a particular sculptor because even if I disliked all the models they had done they could still be far more talented than myself as I cannot sculpt at all (I'm not all that good with GS in general tbh).

Some models I like & others I dislike but my opinions may not be shared by other people but it is my right to have my opinion & say what I like about things (within reason) although I would always try to be constructive with my criticism.

As for models I dislike I would say: -

Chaos Trolls
Tomb Scorpions (these are actually good models but I don't like the skeleton lying in it's back & the skull on the end of it's tail, I know they're suppose to be constructs but still looks silly! with a bit of GS though this can all be sorted)
Clockwork Horse
Plastic Orcs

Sure there's more but I'm too tired to think properly!

Warlord_Grotsnik
15-04-2007, 20:33
Marneus Calgar - the old one...

sandpeople
15-04-2007, 21:11
I really hate the TOMB SCORPION model. Not because it looks that terrible, but it is one of the most difficult to glue together (and staying that way).

The dark elf HYDRA is the ugliest thing I have seen, especially the feet.

Jonahmaul
15-04-2007, 22:48
I always 'glue' difficult models together with a bit of green stuff, put a little on the two joining bits and then use super glue & the green stuff holds them together & when it dries it creates a pretty strong bond. That's how I put my Carnosaur together as pinning it was annoying & not really working.

BlazeXI
16-04-2007, 18:34
I love the dragon ogre models, good job really seeing as I have 6 of them...

I hate anything which that talentless fool Gary Morley gets his hands on, the list is really too long, but Nagash and the old Orion spring to mind as particularly offensive to the eye!

Agreed on the Dragon-Ogres, Classic and fun.

Gary apparently has big teaching talent for novice sculptors. I'd add Dark Elfs to your list...

ekxw
16-04-2007, 18:56
uhmm think about most of the minitures you are talking about have more than 15 years, vampire counts dragon ogres nagash, so, things have changed a lot, now the sculptors are better prepared, have more knowledge, but that dosent mean the sculpts of 15 year ago were crap, 12 years ago i liked nagash model or orion one, now i look at them and smile, remmebering old times.

times have changed its like you see a neandertal sculpture and say its crap, no its just old, and then they havent got the tecnique and knowledge that we have now.

i dislike some actual miniatures but thats question of tastes the worst miniature gw have released lately are the possesed, and this thing
http://img71.imageshack.us/img71/5853/vaultwardenteamjo7.jpg
and no one can defend the last one, its the worst i have seen in years

kyussinchains
16-04-2007, 19:17
I officially retract the negative comments made regarding Gary Morley and Brian Nelson, they are obviously capable sculptors, the fact that their artwork doesnt appeal to me is no reason to slag them off.

I heartily apologise to all those offended :)

and no that wasnt a sarcastic smiley

Marcel
16-04-2007, 19:45
i think the new sculptors arent especially bad, its just that the old ones were a hell of alot better.

Marcel
16-04-2007, 19:46
and as for the older sculptors, the worst thing you can possibly say to any artist of any medium, is that he or she isnt a good as she used to be.

grg3d
16-04-2007, 20:28
Hi,
First the OP asked what models you dislike/ hate the most?

I though ok, easy enough as there are a few that “I” can think of that are not so hot.(Worded to protect the sculptors feelings now)

Then some one tells me I should “keep it to the current model line” Ok I reposted (leaving out Nagash):angel:

Then some one tells me I should give more of a reason as to why I think they “suck” as not to ruin the sculptor’s day or their feelings.(evidently they have not seen a picture of the figure(s) in question)
I guess a more worded response would make them (the Sculptor's) feel better about a sculpt that some people thinks “boy is that an awful sculpt, what were they thinking?”

Before I post “again” on what I believe to be some of the “Not so good sculpts” that have been put out by GW sculptors in the most resent past or the upcoming future. I just wanted to know if there were any more rules about being able to post on this thread (so I can be politically correct in my posting as to not offend the sculptors or any of the posters who think I should write a novel on why I think the figure(s) in question Suck (oops I mean not so good)

I don’t really care who the sculptors are/were as I didn’t really know who was sculpting what in the first place. I just know what I like and don't like, which might not be the same as everyone else

Posting on this thread should have been so easy “a caveman could do it” :p

Jonahmaul
16-04-2007, 21:53
I tend to agree with grg3d. At the end of the day its possible that we can have opinions that we may not be able to quantify, for example I don't really like the new Empire hero with the handlebar moustache. I certainly wouldn't name it the worst model ever but there's just something about it I don't like, it isn't quite 'right' though I couldn't put my finger on what it is that puts me off.

I think that hurting sculptors feelings isn't something that really needs to be considered here. Unless someone is saying so & so is a t**t then everyone is entitled to their opinions although I tend to agree that a ballpark quote like 'i hate all of so & so's miniatures' may be a bit severe (most notably because how likely is it that anybody knows a sculptors entire range?!). At the end of the day sculptors are artists so should be able to handle the criticism as well as the praise.

Harry
16-04-2007, 23:13
I hate anything which that talentless fool Gary Morley gets his hands on, the list is really too long,

This was the post that got me on board.

He is not talentless and he is not a fool. I am confident that if anyone here met him you would not walk up to him and call him a talentless fool to his face.

However, the anonimity of the internet makes people think that it is OK to behave this way. It is not OK. It is not OK to abuse people and slag them or their work off for the sake of a witty one liner.

We all make the world the way it is.
I choose not to let this behaviour go unchallenged.

I am sorry if folks don't get that.

No one is saying you can't dislike a sculpt.
No one is even saying you can't come here and say you don't like it.
All I am saying is....

Oh look I have already said it in my first post on this thread.


Perhaps we could just merge this with all the other 'which sculptor is ****' threads.

HERE IS SOME OF WHAT I HAVE SAID ON THIS TOPIC IN THE PAST

"No on is saying you can not dislike a sculpt.
No one is even saying you can not come here and say you don't like it.
All I am saying is you can't just slag it off in a couple of words and give the sculptors the credit they deserve for the time, care and talent that has gone into its creation."

"I just think we should cut them some slack. Even on a bad day. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and to voice it on a forum but let us do it in an intelligent and fair minded way expaling carefully why we were disappointed not in a glib, sarcastic way as others have. I think these artists, writers, sculptors have earned that we give them that much respect."

"My problem is when someone looks at six months work and takes the ****. Comes up with some smart **** remark or just says I think 'it stinks'. This simply is not fair. (You can not write off six months work with two words and be fair!) These guys are some of the best at what they do. They work with huge enthusiasm and try their very best to get it right sometimes under ludicrous design restrictions that you would not believe if I tried to describe them to you. Sometimes against all their instincts as artists and sculptors as to how they would do them given the creative freedom to do so."

AND FROM DR DEATH (Who is better with words than I am)

"This I wholeheartedly agree with. Critique and commentry is good but derogatory comments do not such make. Granted they are getting paid for it but none the less the sculpter has taken the time and invested themselves into creating the sculpts and so one should tread carefully and courteously around discarding that effort. I think people should analyse their complaints before presenting them so as to clarify the specific bad points of a model so those specifics can be challanged or agreed with".

Dr Death[/QUOTE]

kyussinchains
16-04-2007, 23:29
This was the post that got me on board.

He is not talentless and he is not a fool. I am confident that if anyone here met him you would not walk up to him and call him a talentless fool to his face.


I agree, I have apologised and retracted my comments, would you like me to remove the offending post or edit the offensive comments out?

your choice :)

edit: er... actually I took that choice away and edited the original post

Harry
16-04-2007, 23:46
Please accept my apologies. I had not meant to drag you back into it I was merely responding to grg3d's post.

I had not read your previous post.

Thank you for getting my point.

It was never my choice.
It was always yours.

My choice was to ignore it or say something.

Lets shake hands and call it even. Sending you a PM.

Rioghan Murchadha
17-04-2007, 06:07
I have to say.. the worst GW sculpts are probably the ones that cost, ounce for ounce, roughly the same amount as cocaine or heroin..

LionoftheBegs
17-04-2007, 06:35
seconded.
none of the sculpters at GW are 'crap'. If anyone thinks they are , then they should put their money where their mouth is and show us how good at sculpting they are.:mad:
As for Gary Morley, stop hacking away at his work from over 10(?) years ago. yep, nagash and orion didnt live up to the expectation of the codex artwork, and could be considered poor compared to what he produces now. I know my painting skills of 10 years ago were poor compared to what i can do now, and i dont consider myself a good painter, just competent.
In general if you have nothing to say beyond 'its crap' dont bother to speak/type at all. At the very least you should say that its not to your taste/ expectation.

Nope, If I consider the models Crap, the artist is crap as well. You wouldn't want a Picasso Painting which was the worst of the lot and call that good? No your would say its crap and not as good as his other work.

I can comment all I like because frankly I am buying the model and in essance my money is running GW. If I played an army that has a crap model, I would say its crap not "Oh poor little artist, lets buy it for him." They get paid to sculpt models and they should model better.

Wadders
17-04-2007, 06:56
I personally from the old range hate Nagash - or coco the clown as he is affectionately called....

I do not feel the need to explain why, especially if every one had seen all the concept ideas they had back when they were choosing the right model. The others were deemed

TOO Scary....

New/current range

Personally i don't like the Chaos Ogres or Minotaurs with floppy feet....

On a lighter note, I think the new plastic ranges are amazing, they improve with every new box set.... the empire are amazing, the Black Orcs are great and as for the Wizards boxset coming out... different level.

They are stepping in the right direction and that is important

grg3d
17-04-2007, 13:12
Hi again, well Harry I “DO” agree with you on name calling
(A certain sculptor works sucks and all the stuff they do is crap posts)

“Shame on You” the ones that did this.

If GW thought the sculptor(s) were terrible and were doing a bad job I’m sure they would no longer have a job at GW making figurines.

I’m not a sculptor nor will I never become one as I don’t have that kind of talent but that doesn’t mean I can’t judge what a good sculpt is or a bad one. So other than my personal opinion on what I like or dislike I saw no reason to give more than a few words to my post, mostly naming the figures “I” thought were bad.(actually thought it would be a poll as there are only a few that are note worthy as bad sculpt)

The original poster asked what we though was the worst sculpt was, fine and Jim dandy I thought as everybody has an opinion no mater what the subject matter is about and they/We are always experts on the subject matter being discussed( my observation from reading this and other posts in forums)
And of course as most threads do, they don’t always stay on track once the ball starts rolling.

Shame on us all.

scratchbuilt
17-04-2007, 13:27
I would say that the average Rackham metal miniature beats the average GW metal miniature. I think that's a better way to put it.

You also have to consider that Rackham doesn't have to sculpt NEARLY as many miniatures as GW, and being a French company, I think they're somehow able to get more artistic talent(that's probably pretty ignorant though).

Let's try to keep this to CURRENT models, as I could list TONS.

I'd say the current beastman Bestigors(not nurgle or khorne). They're just bloody UGLY and horrible.

Not really France supports things like art alot more (look at their massive output of graphic novels and comics - though that might be Belgium). Art is suffering in England.

Nearly all the undead Skeletons. The old models were good but the new ones are massive, far bigger than say an empire trooper. But I still think GW models are more detialed, if sometimes more dorky than other companies. But no law against mixing and matching -unless you like tournements

Revlid
17-04-2007, 13:48
WOOOOOOOOO! (http://uk.games-workshop.com/storefront/store.uk?do=Individual&code=COMP0207003&orignav=9)

Arhalien
17-04-2007, 14:42
Oh dear...

That's actually the first time I've seen that model, I'm now beginning to wish i hadn't

IronSailor
17-04-2007, 15:10
Has anyone noticed that chaos models tend to look great or very poor.

The new chaos warriors are one of the best looking plastic regiments while the old models made your cornea glaze over.

Likewise the Dragon Ogre Shaggoth is a marvel; chaos ogres, however, are the worst models I have ever seen.

With 40K the new possessed are terrible and belong in the circus - models like Typhus and the Daemon Prince are awesome.

god octo
17-04-2007, 17:30
I do dislike the current Treeman's legs- I feel he should have 2 legs, not 4. Plus, the older Treeman had more character, and I like my one.

Fred_Scuttle
17-04-2007, 18:05
Good Evening Viewers!!!

I've never trolled through the catalogs looking at each model one by one, so by my limited exposure I can say the 40K Possessed are the ones I like the least - and would never consider using.

A lot of the points Harry brought up in defense of the personal side of sculpting I very much agree with. Creative, artistic personel need to feel free to pursue projects to what ever end they arrive at.

I'd take much more of an issue with the project manager who saw those models and said - YES - We'll release those!! rather than 'Hmm. Good try. I like some of the features, let's look at doing XY and Z differently.'

The Possessed models specifically were not part of a prestige release tied to a new Codex. They had no real PR buildup, they easilly could have been shelved and left un-released. My real disagreement is not with the sculpters, but with the deciders.

Fred Out

C-Coen
17-04-2007, 18:56
I won't be talking about sculptors I don't like (I don't even know who sculpted which figures, but if I did I also wouldn't post there names)
Some of the older figures are very poor quality. Some Dark Elves, a big amount of Beasts of Chaos, Vampire Counts, High Elves...
It's strange that some figs, from the same edition, are great, while others, from the same edition, simply ****. The Necrarch Vampire is really good IMO, while the Strigoi one..****** ****..... you know what I mean.
Also, the Shaggoth is one of the best mini's around.

I really don't like the Tree Kin/Treeman. I haven't seen any trees in my entire life which even looked a very little bit like them. And not only because most trees have leaves.. (The whole rest of the WE range are the best mini's GW released so far if you ask me).

GodHead
18-04-2007, 16:19
Chaos Trolls. Yhetti's. Chaos Ogres.

Each more terrible than the last. Lacking in any form of emotion, utilizing simplistic poses, poor detail sculpting that looks like toolwork on clay rather than say, "hair" or "scales". The entire design and marketing team responsible for Chaos Ogres are responsible. Such miniatures are really a black eye for GW. I would love to have been a fly on the wall at Rackham or Privateer Press the day those were released.

de Selby
18-04-2007, 16:27
However, the anonimity of the internet makes people think that it is OK to behave this way. It is not OK. It is not OK to abuse people and slag them or their work off for the sake of a witty one liner.



QFT.

When GW brings out a new range I generally find that there are some parts I like, and add to my collection, and some parts I don't, and so don't add. Unfortunately the bits I don't like do have a tendency to come from the same sculptors again and again... I wish it weren't so.

Some Things that I judge a model on:
pose: does it look like it's in a natural pose, or in the middle of doing something cool (action pose). Alternatively, are all its arms and legs sticking out at odd angles.
proportion: are the arms, legs and head in proportion (taking into account GW's general 'heroic scale'). Are the details, weapons and general bling in proportion, or do they look blocky. Again, take into account heroic scale: an axe can be absurdly big if it doesn't look blocky or imbalanced.
design: the general pattern of species design, armour, decoration etc. Does it look cool, or poorly thought out?
character: expression or detailing that gives the model character.

...there are more things, but these are some areas in which a model can fail or excel. Most important is a sort of 'je ne sais quois' that can make any figure a must-have or a failure in my eyes, and there's also the question of taste. I like the plastic giant for example, and plenty of people seem to hate it.

A point of information: am I right in thinking that Trish Morrison sculpted the Carnosaur? Can't remember.

Hawkmoon
18-04-2007, 16:48
Chaos Trolls. Yhetti's. Chaos Ogres. Each more terrible than the last.

I thought the same way you do about the Chaos trolls. But if you put them together yourself and do a little bit of converting they aren't that bad really.
I think it was just the studio's lack luster positioning and paint job that makes them look as bad as they do in all the official pics.

I suppose that could be the title of another thread. "what studio model paint schemes do you dislike?" :p

as for the chaos ogres, perhaps some pretty heavy converting could salvage them but I can't imagine it being worth the trouble since the plastic OK models are much easier to work with.

truthsayer
18-04-2007, 17:00
OK, my worst looking models has to be the Dark Elf sorceress on cold one. The proportions are all screwed up, what on earth is she doing with a couple of saucers on her chest and it looks like her face has been put in a vice!

I have to say that the new flagellants dont look too nice either. The angles of the flails are wierd looking. like the ends are being held up by invisible rope.

*runs for cover*

Morph
18-04-2007, 19:40
Not enough mentions of the Clockwork Horse. Horrible.

Nagash of course. Chaos Trolls & Ogres (I don't mind the Dragon Ogres that much). The Bone Giant with the skeleton hat.

Lots of the old one-pose plastics were terrible. The Orcs made my eyes bleed.

Firestorm Falcon
19-04-2007, 16:51
Chameleon skinks, I just can't stand them for some reason, maybe it's the eyes.

Ellerion reavers, Why are they posed like they have shields? Why?

I hate all the obrious ones as well (chaos trolls/ogres)
But I thought I'd bring some others up.

Macrus
19-04-2007, 18:04
Im not really bothered about many of the models, though the old wood elves were a bit naf.

Macrus

kaimarion
19-04-2007, 18:38
First time I saw the chaos posesed I was like.....ohhh god dammit my eyes they burn please some one help meeeeeeee!
and now I am like.......hey there not all that bad.

Any way back to the point-I hate the heads on the Tyranid warriors and the fw trygon is far too small.

Arhalien
19-04-2007, 18:41
Ellerion reavers, Why are they posed like they have shields? Why?



The artwork of them in the book has them with shields as well.

god octo
19-04-2007, 20:31
Im not really bothered about many of the models, though the old wood elves were a bit naf.

Macrus

I like some of the older wood elves. The heroes were all awful, as they were sort of HE cast offs, but I liked the Treeman especially. I also use the old 5th ed Dryads- they just look so mad and creepy!

Vattendroppe
19-04-2007, 20:45
DE harpies... They just make me want to kill myself. :cries:

Bretagne
19-04-2007, 20:57
DE harpies... They just make me want to kill myself. :cries:

i kind of like the old flying monkey ones better. they look more menacing.

i personally dislike the skeletal steed. the black knights themselves are ok, but the steed make them look skinny and puny. S4 T4 knights should not look puny.

Bretagne
19-04-2007, 20:58
Chameleon skinks, I just can't stand them for some reason, maybe it's the eyes.


chameleons? hello?

C-Coen
19-04-2007, 21:02
...want to kill myself. :cries:...

Please don't say that. I've heard it said in real, and believe me, that's not good..

Vattendroppe
20-04-2007, 06:21
Please don't say that. I've heard it said in real, and believe me, that's not good..

Don't take it to seriously, it was just a way to really show that I loathe the modelling.

xibo
20-04-2007, 07:24
Hmmm I dislike the 40K possessed CSMs, but then, who doesn't?
Basically I dislike everything of the Fantasy Empire as I completely dislike it's style and fluff, and also am annoyed by GW's ZOMGTEHSKULLS 'gothifiing' them or whatever that is supposed to do.
So my most disliked model of the FB range ratings go to:
1. Preorder Empire Box Sourceror / Misscast or whatever
2. Dark Elves Sourceress on Cold One... It's so ugly I had to put a converted bretonian damsel on a cold one instead
3. Flamers, Horrors and Deamonettes. Basically you get a larger sized model with arms going in all directions that can't be pinned and will break off all the times.

BlazeXI
21-04-2007, 17:51
3. Flamers, Horrors and Deamonettes.

you can't be serious! These are probably the best chaos models GW ever made.

Toby
21-04-2007, 18:45
The old saurus coldones looked a bit weird (not the new ones they rule)

Jonahmaul
21-04-2007, 19:15
Lol, yeah they were rubbish. I got 5 of them with the Army Box deal but havent got a clue where they are now, in some bits box somewhere! Got two boxes of the new ones though as they are awesome (converted a couple into Saurus heroes)

Singaliel
26-04-2007, 12:31
Harry speaks teh truth.

Do you guys know how much overtime the sculptors put in to get the models finished, because they want to get them out here to us guys?

They spend their spare time, where they could be doing something totally different, slaving away trying to get stuff out for us guys. Give them some uber-respect. :)

D.

I asked Tom Meier of Thunderbolt Mountain miniatures how long it takes him to sculpt one of his 30mm masterpieces. He said about 10 hours per model! Tom's work is light years ahead of anything GW has produced (although I do like GW models too). So I am not too impressed with the sacrifices the GW sculptors make.

Oh, Morley should be outsed and his master molds destroyed. I curse him for the Wood Elves prior to the current line!

Most hated model for me are both the new High Elf Mages. I wish the same sculptor that did the new Lord/Commanders on foot had done the mages. It is frustrating that a race that is magic heavy has really never had a good mage figure (I sculpted my own for my army). Tirade ends now....

Jonahmaul
26-04-2007, 12:38
Just been browsing through my Daemonhunters army book & I have to say that the Daemonhosts are pretty bad models which is a shame as the Cherubael model for inquisitor was done really well IMO.

cinera
26-04-2007, 12:41
beast men dragon ogres! they are awful!

that should make mini shaggoths and put them forward as dragon ogres... because those models are ugly...

Harry
26-04-2007, 13:02
Oh, Morley should be outsed and his master molds destroyed. I curse him for the Wood Elves prior to the current line!

Most hated model for me are both the new High Elf Mages. I wish the same sculptor that did the new Lord/Commanders on foot had done the mages. It is frustrating that a race that is magic heavy has really never had a good mage figure (I sculpted my own for my army). Tirade ends now....

Errrrrm. Martin Footit did the High Elf Mages and the Heroes. (Hero to zero in the same sentance. Nice.)

Please feel free to post picks of your High Elf Mage sculpts. We can ask Gary Moreley what he thinks of them and you can tell us how it feels.

Great first post. Thanks for coming.

Arhalien
26-04-2007, 15:51
Oh,Most hated model for me are both the new High Elf Mages. I wish the same sculptor that did the new Lord/Commanders on foot had done the mages. It is frustrating that a race that is magic heavy has really never had a good mage figure (I sculpted my own for my army). Tirade ends now....

Hmm... Just a matter of opinions but I think the mage standing with both feet on the floor is one of the best mages GW have produced; detailed, well posed and very elven. The others aren;t as good, but still lovely models IMO.
Any chance you can expand on why you don;t like them?

E-Dog
26-04-2007, 16:14
Possessed chaos space marines, so much potential for coolness and GW failed

Warlord_Grotsnik
27-04-2007, 11:35
WOOOOOOOOO! (http://uk.games-workshop.com/storefront/store.uk?do=Individual&code=COMP0207003&orignav=9)

Worst model I've ever seen...EVER!

galadriad
27-04-2007, 14:54
The new wood elf lord on giant eagle.... that one sucks.

Warlord_Grotsnik
27-04-2007, 15:19
Yes, my goodness that's terrible.

Brother Siccarius
27-04-2007, 18:19
The High Elf Mages (http://us.games-workshop.com/games/warhammer/highelves/catalog/mage.htm)
Absolutely beautiful sculpts, but it's so sad that I just can't get past their faces. The rather strong chin (and I swear an adams apple) on the female one, the open mouthed buck teeth on the airborn male one, and the one on foot who looks like he's trying to get some food out of the corner of his mouth. Beautiful sculpts that I'm no where near being able to do...but those faces....

Tree Kin
I look at it and wonder who the heck wouldn't take one look at it and say "That's not a normal tree", because they look too twisted to be any kind of recognizable thing that could have once been called a tree, even by accident. They have a bark texture, which seems to be the extent of tree-ish-ness there. Still, not something I could do, but still.

And Harry, most of us know a lot of work went into these things, and most of us realize that it's a matter of opinion. Most of us know that these things could have been masterpieces in the eyes of their sculptors but fallen short in our eyes. I certainly know I can't do anything of their skill or quality, but it doesn't make my opinion of their work less valid or needed. Unless I start saying that the artists themselves are crap or that they should burn, the opinion expressed is valid.

Arhalien
27-04-2007, 18:21
Hmm,. I think that the rfaces on those mages are just the pictures, the one on foot certainly. I have him and the face doesn;t look like that at all.

Harry
27-04-2007, 19:36
The High Elf Mages (http://us.games-workshop.com/games/warhammer/highelves/catalog/mage.htm)
Absolutely beautiful sculpts, but it's so sad that I just can't get past their faces. The rather strong chin (and I swear an adams apple) on the female one, the open mouthed buck teeth on the airborn male one, and the one on foot who looks like he's trying to get some food out of the corner of his mouth. Beautiful sculpts that I'm no where near being able to do...but those faces....

Tree Kin
I look at it and wonder who the heck wouldn't take one look at it and say "That's not a normal tree", because they look too twisted to be any kind of recognizable thing that could have once been called a tree, even by accident. They have a bark texture, which seems to be the extent of tree-ish-ness there. Still, not something I could do, but still.

And Harry, most of us know a lot of work went into these things, and most of us realize that it's a matter of opinion. Most of us know that these things could have been masterpieces in the eyes of their sculptors but fallen short in our eyes. I certainly know I can't do anything of their skill or quality, but it doesn't make my opinion of their work less valid or needed. Unless I start saying that the artists themselves are crap or that they should burn, the opinion expressed is valid.

Not sure what your problem is.

I have never once had a problem with you (or anybody else) expressing their opinion. You happen explain beautifully what it is you don't like about these sculpts and as it happens I can't disagree with you on any particular point.

But even if I disagreed with you. And you expressed an opinion that I would spend a lifetime shouting down I wouldn't have a problem with you expressing it. Its called free speech.

If you think I have a problem with people expressing their opinions, even negative ones about sculpts you have not understood anything I have said.

Unclejo
27-04-2007, 20:13
The plastic Skaven clanrats are, to me, terrible. I look at the artwork on the box, then look at the minituares that scurry out of it and wonder what the hell went wrong.

The older metal Clanrats (and Skaven in general back in the day...) were fantastic. Sleek, nasty looking beggars with a motley assortment of weapons. The slightly chubby anthromorphic gerbils that GW churns out nowadays make me really annoyed that with the wealth of fantastic art, someone REALLY missed the boat.

Bretagne
28-04-2007, 01:41
Hmm... Just a matter of opinions but I think the mage standing with both feet on the floor is one of the best mages GW have produced; detailed, well posed and very elven. The others aren;t as good, but still lovely models IMO.
Any chance you can expand on why you don;t like them?

lets not forget the one on the elemental bowling ball. i think that is a really awesome concept, that was executed well.

my vote for most hated, as in the one that i hate the most because this isnt a poll, would have to be the models that GW doesnt make... Slanngors, Tzeengors, etc

and for anyone who is at another persons throat about personal opinions, get over it. say what you think and dont pull any punches. one doesnt need the silly IMO IMHO things at the beginning of each and every post. this is the internet. nobody trusts you as any form of authority outside of post count, so everything anyone says is opinion, except for what im saying, which is fact lol

the vicar
28-04-2007, 10:08
The entire Dark Elf range look like rejects from an '80's metal band album cover!:evilgrin:

I kinda like the Dark Elf range. Except for the pregnant cows. And the people riding the pregnant cows. And the harpies, God are they awful and unbelievable with their small small wings. And the hydras aren't so great. And come to think of it, neither are the manticores.

Alright, I like the Dark Elf infantry models. Everything else kinda sucks.

Jonahmaul
28-04-2007, 10:11
I don't get why people have a problem with women having 'adam's apples'. I know men are only suppose to have them but women still do have them, they have to swallow too, they're just not as pronounced! We have anyone with any biology knowledge around? Can someone tell me what the lump that women have is called?! (Sorry for going slightly OT!)

Finnigan2004
28-04-2007, 16:02
Looking at the results on my own thread, I'm thinking that my Bar-nee the purple carnosaur will rank high on the list when he's done. Other than that, I really, really hate Nurgle models with all of their pustules.

Singaliel
04-05-2007, 00:03
Errrrrm. Martin Footit did the High Elf Mages and the Heroes. (Hero to zero in the same sentance. Nice.)

Please feel free to post picks of your High Elf Mage sculpts. We can ask Gary Moreley what he thinks of them and you can tell us how it feels.

Great first post. Thanks for coming.


Harry. So nice of you to welcome me with such abrasion. Why the venom? I just posted my thoughts on the question posed. Get a life.

Link to the mage I sculpted/converted is below. Criticize away.


http://www.coolminiornot.com/113879

Voltaire
04-05-2007, 00:18
Singaliel,

Your post was nothing short of a flaming rant. I feel that Harrys comments were made to try and get something out of you which wasn't a silly post. How would you improve the Wood Elf range and Morleys sculpts?

black-francis
04-05-2007, 00:30
i dont like the current beastman gors. they're musculature is all wrong and their hands are too small

Harry
04-05-2007, 09:38
Harry. So nice of you to welcome me with such abrasion. Why the venom? I just posted my thoughts on the question posed. Get a life.

Link to the mage I sculpted/converted is below. Criticize away.


http://www.coolminiornot.com/113879

I have a life. I have a lovely wife, two beautiful children, a nice home, a great family, a job that makes a difference. I even have one or two good mates.
I am very lucky on the life front.

I may have been abrasive but I am able to post without becoming personal or abusive.

My post was due to, in your own words, your "tirade" against two fine sculptors. One of whom you practically slag off his entire lifes work...'his master moulds should be destroyed'. Your comments were both ill informed and unfair. Gary has done some fantastic work over a long career for Games Workshop. If you were aware of all his work I imagine there is some of it you actually really like. It may even be in your own collection.
To write off someones lifes work for a cheap laugh is unacceptable. I am sure you would not have said what you did to Garys face. He is a nice guy. Sadly the anonimity of the internet makes people behave in ways they wouldn't in real life.

We all make the world the way it is and I choose not to ignore comments like this. Feel free to read the rest of this thread and you will get a bigger picture. It was/is nothing personel.

Now on to happier things.

I loved your High Elf mini. Original, not just an imitation of the style of existing minis. Reminded me of some of the stuff martin footit is doing actually. Love the work on the belt and the hanging jewelled belty thing wrapped aropund her side and the jewel in her hand is a triumph of sculpting. (I would love to see a step by step on how you did that).
Was this sculted from scratch or is it based on another mini.
Nice paint job too. You have really got High Elf gems nailed.

Thanks for sharing that with us.
Love to see more of your stuff.
Welcome to the forum.

All the best.
Harry

Singaliel
04-05-2007, 10:13
Singaliel,

Your post was nothing short of a flaming rant. I feel that Harrys comments were made to try and get something out of you which wasn't a silly post. How would you improve the Wood Elf range and Morleys sculpts?

First off, I like your screen name. Candide is among my favorites. In the best of all possible worlds, GWs minis would more closely match their generally excellent concept art. The sculptors are out there (take a look at Thunderbolt Mountain, Dark Sword, Le Retour des Dieux - Armageddon (Sylvains), etc.). GW should make better selections in sculptors. Who in the company could, without reservation, say 'okay, that's excellent, let's sell it' to the new Wood Elf Lord on an Eagle? Quality control is a good thing.

The Wood Elf range has been improved with the new line, generally. The now classic archers and glade guard (spears) were too bulky for elves IMHO, especially the spears and the absolutely enormous hands of the old Glade Guard. The faces of the old line also lacked the refined features I feel are characteristic of elves. The new sculpts look more like elves (Glade Guard/Riders, Eternal Guard, etc.).

I don't think I have ever seen a Morley model that I thought was really good and fitting for a game I truly enjoy. It's a matter of his style and my taste especially for High and Wood Elves which need to be slender and refined in body and facial features. I truly do feel his work is simply not good enough so I do not buy models he sculpts.

The new High Elf mages also have facial features that are too broad and unattractive. Female elves should be sleek, elegant and beautiful. The introduction of balls (on the end of a wand and a mage standing on one) is out of character. This Footit person did a good job on the HE heroes and I was shocked to learn he also did the mages. Faces seem to be a challenge for him.

Maybe I should have just said "I vote for the new High Elf mages as the worst models" and left it at that. Sorry for the "flaming rant" You guys can be a rough bunch!

Finnblood
04-05-2007, 10:45
I've always loved the Nagash model. Can't see what's wrong with it :confused:

Only thing I could nag about is the pose and that could be easily redone with some GS and a touch of love. :)

Fredrik
04-05-2007, 12:34
I´t seems to be two categories, those that want some redone and those stating the ugliest models. I´ll join ranks with teh ugliest models crowd, ugliest i find the chaos ogres and chaos trols (hidious* shudder*).

P.S Dragon ogre models rock even if the are old, just wish the made the shaggot more in thier image then they did.

BattleofLund
04-05-2007, 12:46
I really don't like the 'fat' Mordheim Captain, or the big-tooth Striking Scorpions. But one of my most favoritest models ever is one of Morley's, Blood Bowl Wight 2. Apologies for the off-topic mid-sentence of this post.

Sureshot05
04-05-2007, 13:42
It’s got to be for WFB = Coco the Clown (Nagash) - too cartoonish, not at all menacing - paint job it was initially seen with didn't help.

It’s got to be for 40k = The New Chaos Possessed Marines - enough has been said about these.

Of all the models, these are the ones I would actually throw out if I was given them or found them in my bits box.

-Edit-: that came across a lot harsher than intented. I have to point out that its very easy to pick out the bad sculpts because in my personal opinion there are so few. Picking out the good on the other hand would be a nightmare as I have not seen a model since the Possessed which I didn't think that would be a nice purchase. In particular, the models for the O&G line, the Dwarf line, and the Empire line for warhammer have all been absolute stunners, which given my armies I collect (see sig) have upset mr. wallet plenty.

KingGato
04-05-2007, 23:42
I really hate a good portion of the 6th edition Vampire Counts line. Particularly those wretchedly buck-toothed Von Carstein vampires. Ugh. They're like Dracula's developmentally-disabled cousins.

black-francis
05-05-2007, 00:43
I really hate a good portion of the 6th edition Vampire Counts line. Particularly those wretchedly buck-toothed Von Carstein vampires. Ugh. They're like Dracula's developmentally-disabled cousins.

except Manfredd Von Carstein of course. :)

studderigdave
05-05-2007, 13:26
i hate assembling the ogre scraplauncher. so much pinning its crazy.

im also not a fan of most the DE line.

DarkLord Of Naggaroth
05-05-2007, 14:11
im also not a fan of most the DE line.


can somebody please check this man out for mental disorders.
:D

Shadowseer Crofty
05-05-2007, 14:36
the worst model IMHO would be the chaos Ogres, the faces just look cr@p, and some of the bodies look horribly out of proportion. The Dragon Ogre faces look just as ugly, but at least the rest of the bodies are good (I mean normal dragon ogres, the shaggoths are IMHO one of the best models GW has made)

Some Muppet
05-05-2007, 16:28
well, its really hard to pin 1 model down as the worse, dont get me wrong, they make some of the best models out there (though i still think that darkson rackham wyrd and (to a certain extent) infinity are generally better), but gw still make some really aweful tat, the worst 5 whf minis, in a random order, imo are

1 WE lord on eagle, just look at him, and i needent say more
2 HE teclis, he looks like eddy izzard crossed with lilly savage ffs.
3 most of the DE stuff, its awfully outdated
4 lizardmen temple guard
5 Greaus Golldtooth, looks like vicki pollard after a night out

but, there are a few thing i must commend gw on, pretty much the whole we range, the tzeentch deamons rock imo. also i really like some of the bretonian stuff. just hope they cut the crap and actually employ good sculpter (they are all better than me, but still, they are nothing compared to others in the company)

ImperiusDominatus
05-05-2007, 17:39
Worst model? Hmm, that's a hard one; I'm mostly quite content with GW's models, so it's pretty hard for me to describe. If I had to choose, though, it'd probably be the Dragon Ogres. The bodies themselves aren't too bad, but it's the heads that get me. Ugh, those are ugly.


im also not a fan of most the DE line.
Hmm, I find it odd that alot of people don't seem to like the Dark Elves; I've always seen them as having one of the best model lines. Executioners are brilliant models, with really well done poses, and the Black Guard have to be one of the best looking units in the game, IMO. Not to mention the Corsairs and Bolt Throwers. Ah well, just personal opinion, I guess.

Shadowseer Crofty
05-05-2007, 20:58
Worst model? Hmm, that's a hard one; I'm mostly quite content with GW's models, so it's pretty hard for me to describe. If I had to choose, though, it'd probably be the Dragon Ogres. The bodies themselves aren't too bad, but it's the heads that get me. Ugh, those are ugly.
i noticed building mine that the dragon body is wider than the Ogre torso. good job im doing some green stuffing



find it odd that alot of people don't seem to like the Dark Elves; I've always seen them as having one of the best model lines. Executioners are brilliant models, with really well done poses, and the Black Guard have to be one of the best looking units in the game, IMO. Not to mention the Corsairs and Bolt Throwers. Ah well, just personal opinion, I guess.

I like them too, especially stuff like malekith, morathi and the beastmaster on the manticore. The warriors, corsairs, shades, executioners etc are all good models too, not the best, but better than much.

Maren
05-05-2007, 21:01
The new god damned giant. I mean come on! It's ugly! It's just big and fat, and sure it's supposed to be fat it seems, but it doesn't even look powerful! I mean it looks like i could beat one of thos hands down bu whacking it on the leg with a stick and it would just fall over crying with a broken leg.

rivers3162
06-05-2007, 01:15
I agree with everyone on the dragon ogres but in all fairness these are getting rather old now and are thus showing their age.

Personally, I hate the Possessed marines for the reasons given by others. I was really disappointed with the Wood elf lord on the giant eagle and on the stag. The eagle lord is a bit too upright and undynamic compared to the likes of the warhawk riders. The stag IMHO looks far too beefy and clumsy as opposed to majestic and regal, which is how I think of a stag.

I'm also a bit disappointed with the new troll models which seem to embody the stupid nature of trolls rather than the brutal, wicked cunning in the older sculpts - I still think the river trolls are some of the best sculpts ever done by GW. The only other sculpt I can think of that I particuarly dislike is Greasus Goldtooth. I think the whole concept is a bit too comic for my tastes, particuarly the oversized chicken leg - why not just have made it a kebab and have done with it?

Stormbrow II
06-05-2007, 03:56
why not just have made it a kebab and have done with it?
Because then they'd have to put an England jersey on him aswell and they'd never get permission to do that now would they?:p

The Possessed from 40k are up there with the Cold Ones. Its a bit hard to decide as they're both pug-fuggly.

MaxTheGaijin
06-05-2007, 07:24
You guys have all made some good claims to some terrible models but I think anything that is Out of Print from the 80's are all very terrible models.
If I had to choose a new model I would have to go with the Chaos Furies.

big7samuraifan
06-05-2007, 17:48
that ugly hydra model

HiveTrygon
06-05-2007, 18:20
You know, most of GW's stuff is very, very good. Anything that is not to par is well, old. I think that the ogre kingdom range is not my favorite. They are sculpted well, just not in my mind how an ogre would look. I think most of these facts of concept and age factor into better or less liked models.

I also would like to mention a few of the poor concept models such as the possesed are well sculpted if you look at the details, just a bad design. Gary has done quite a few I do not care for but also a few I love. I would be a little less harsh about using the word crap model and perhaps say your "least favorite".

I agree with Harry about time and demands. I have done loads of commissions and the fact is people expect the impossible 90% of the time. I know the old "alien crest" tyranid hive tyrant everyone hated first time around was rushed big time along with the guard. Now I have heard how so many people like it better than the new one wich is fantastic.

I'd be honored to meet any of these sculptors and learn a thing or two from them. They are self taught, which I am as well, and it takes a long time of practice and botched sculpts to get good. I've just now learned a quick and good way to make hands effective and I've been sculpting 6-7 years now.

My point is, please try to imagine your minis you spend so much time painting only to hear someone come up and say "did someone barf on that?!" I've seen horrible, ungodly crap out there praised by people on the forums because of this reason. Why should the sculptors we respect and cherish to make our stuff not get some respect.

So I would like to chenge to the topic of critique. Why do you dislike it? The best I've heard as the undead wight on camell. Ok elaborate. It's on a friggen horse that is hunched over like a friggen camell, clear and to the point but honestly the pose and age of the mini would get this across as well. Sorry about ranting but I respect these artists and many others quite a bit.

big7samuraifan
06-05-2007, 18:24
the hydra....anatomy is all wrong, body size couldn't support weight of all those necks & heads...just look at it....and this was released in the last, what, 2 years? It looks like a conversion at best....

MaxTheGaijin
06-05-2007, 18:50
the hydra....anatomy is all wrong, body size couldn't support weight of all those necks & heads...just look at it....and this was released in the last, what, 2 years? It looks like a conversion at best....

Ok..That win's. The Hydra is terrible:wtf:

Luthien
06-05-2007, 22:27
bloody HE spearmen, FAT ELVES :wtf:

MaxTheGaijin
06-05-2007, 22:29
bloody HE spearmen, FAT ELVES :wtf:

LMFAO!

That was great............Fat Elves :)

ok another good one. High Spearmen are terrible.

The Underdog
07-05-2007, 00:44
Ok, this might be a little OT and if so I appologise. Generally I'm very happy with most of the GW sculpts (except for a few which have already been mentioned) but what really annoys me is when GW replace some of their great sculpts with models which are supposed to fulfill two roles but somehow fail....

The two which come to mind are the new Dwarf warriors which are supposed to become longbeards with the adition of facemasks (????) and the skaven clanrats which double up as slaves.... Personally I prefer the older metal models for both of these roles, the longbeards because the beards are actually longer(!!!!) and the slaves because they look smaller and enslaved.

Why, oh why, do they take away great models and replace them with something that fails do to the same job?

HiveTrygon
07-05-2007, 01:20
Ok, this might be a little OT and if so I appologise. Generally I'm very happy with most of the GW sculpts (except for a few which have already been mentioned) but what really annoys me is when GW replace some of their great sculpts with models which are supposed to fulfill two roles but somehow fail....

The two which come to mind are the new Dwarf warriors which are supposed to become longbeards with the adition of facemasks (????) and the skaven clanrats which double up as slaves.... Personally I prefer the older metal models for both of these roles, the longbeards because the beards are actually longer(!!!!) and the slaves because they look smaller and enslaved.

Why, oh why, do they take away great models and replace them with something that fails do to the same job?

Now that I agree with. I like the dwarfs ok but a face plate just does not do it for me either. I think a couple braids that could have been glued to the the side of the face would have been a much better idea, that or added extra heads instead of masks. They are trying to make it cheaper for us, this I understand but I do agree.

As for the hydra, I'm sure a lot of that design came down to casting and size of metal parts. That thing would have been ungodly huge to do what you were saying, cool sure but $100 for the kit I'm sure.

The elves are not all that great, they don't look fat to me but I just don'e like the armor style. I like the scale mail but the pointed heads bug me.

KingGato
07-05-2007, 02:37
can somebody please check this man out for mental disorders.
:D

I actually see where he was coming from. Sure the Black Guard might be the best rank and file troops models ever, but the Dark Elf Warriors are straight aweful and look lumpy and out of place among the rest of the graceful DE army. Oh, and the Corsairs are very two-dimensional looking. And the only good use I could find for the Malekitch model was using his arm to give my Dark Elf General a Gauntlet of Dark Power. Not that I can use that weapon anymore. Bah.

Lyinar
07-05-2007, 02:43
Chaos Trolls. Yhetti's. Chaos Ogres.

Each more terrible than the last. Lacking in any form of emotion, utilizing simplistic poses, poor detail sculpting that looks like toolwork on clay rather than say, "hair" or "scales". The entire design and marketing team responsible for Chaos Ogres are responsible. Such miniatures are really a black eye for GW. I would love to have been a fly on the wall at Rackham or Privateer Press the day those were released.

Unless I miss my guess rather horribly, I don't think either of those companies even EXISTED when the Chaos Ogres were created.

Also, those attacking the Dragon Ogres... Well, they were designed, back in the mists of time (i.e., the early 1990's) by one Michael Perry. Who also, along with his twin brother, happens to have sculpted quite a bit of the Lord of the Rings range, which contains many excellent models. Proof that sculptors' skill increases over time, as do companies' overall design ethics.

I've heard a story regarding how Nagash The Clownomancer came to be. Apparently, Gary Morley put out a great sculpt with a lich-like rotting-skin face, and someone didn't like it (someone earlier in the thread said it was because it was "too scary", but what I heard was that it was just because it was a rotting-skin type face and whoever was in charge of approving it just didn't like that kind of look). Being told to give Nagash a "skeletal" face, he attempted to create a miniature so horrible to behold that the person in charge of approving it would be forced to go with his original sculpt. Unfortunately, that plan backfired, and the Death Clown of DOOOM that we all know and fear was born when it got approved instead of the good sculpt. I've no idea if it's more than just a story, but I've seen other examples of good artwork being "edited" by other folk involved with the process until the end result is far worse, so it's believable to me anyway.

I have to say that I don't like the 40k Chaos Possessed models. Quite aside from the facts that they look like rejects from a "character metal" band like GWAR or Lordi and that one of them is doing the gorram Safety Dance, they are completely redundant thanks to the Chaos Mutations Sprue, which allows for easily converting your own Possessed that look better than the official models do. Greasus Goldtooth has major flaws in both the fundamental concept and the execution, though. "Yes, let's make the Ogre who got to the top of the food chain by beating up and/or eating all the Ogres who challenged him into a bloated blob who has to be carted around by a horde of Gnoblars."

Jonahmaul
07-05-2007, 10:02
I actually quite like the Hydra model, am I a freak?!

Arhalien
07-05-2007, 10:13
bloody HE spearmen, FAT ELVES :wtf:

Agreed. Badly posed, big handed, stupid faced, badly proportioned, with legs coated in solid lumps of what should be light scale mail? And they have no shoulders. The new ones can't come too quickly.

DarkLord Of Naggaroth
07-05-2007, 10:43
I actually see where he was coming from. Sure the Black Guard might be the best rank and file troops models ever, but the Dark Elf Warriors are straight aweful and look lumpy and out of place among the rest of the graceful DE army. Oh, and the Corsairs are very two-dimensional looking. And the only good use I could find for the Malekitch model was using his arm to give my Dark Elf General a Gauntlet of Dark Power. Not that I can use that weapon anymore. Bah.

actually I disagree. When see and fell the spearmen I get this feeling of, 'wow they're good I love them to bits.' I'm not a fan of that wierd head with the stuff sticking out of it, but everything else about them is ok. and if they look out of place it is because they are the only plastic models so they're bound to look different. Granted, I dont like how thick the blades of the corsairs are but that can't be avoided either, I dont see them as 2D

C-Coen
07-05-2007, 18:12
I actually quite like the Hydra model, am I a freak?!

Maybe you are, I don't know, but I also like the Hydra model. 'Are we both freaks?' :p

Carot
07-05-2007, 18:33
Personally, I really don't like the new plastic dwarves. Both the warriors and the thunderers.

My new thunderers have almost made me want to stop my dwarf army entirely. The assembly just totally dinks me off. That and that hubcap they come with....O wait, it's supposed to be a shield.

From now on I'm only buying the older dwarf warriors.

*grumble*

TheWarSmith
07-05-2007, 18:37
The SEVERE handicapping of unit customization is really disappointing. Chaos warriors are so hard to tweak and customize, and I think a TON is lost in modeling experience when making the "combination" boxes.

seb2304
25-02-2013, 18:16
Jules le Jongleur[bretonnian]Look at it...

The bearded one
25-02-2013, 18:27
Jules le Jongleur[bretonnian]Look at it...

The date of the last post, look at it ;)

Sorry buddy, but this is a thread from 2007 :)

decker_cky
25-02-2013, 18:41
Sorry buddy, but this is a thread from 2007 :)

And Chaos Ogres are still current range and among the worst models. :P

Urgat
25-02-2013, 18:54
So there was a time when even Harry could get into an argument? I feel better, maybe in 10 years I'll be beyond that too :) Anyway, this particular threadomancy is quite interesting, it does show the evolution (or lack thereof) of certain ways of thoughts or opinions in our hobby. And that some people will be lamenting no new HE spearmen for quite some time still :p

Jonahmaul
25-02-2013, 18:58
And I still like the Hydra. In fact I even own one now!

Jack of Blades
26-02-2013, 00:22
Jules le Jongleur[bretonnian]Look at it...

Are you the Great Necromancer's own disciple? even he would be impressed with the necromantic feat you have accomplished. Truly you have risen the dead :eek:

herohammer
26-02-2013, 01:53
And I thought the culprit would be raging at some new daemon model...

Didn't expect Jules. Repanse and Friar Tuck are still good models though if we are going to talk old Bret stuff

Knifeparty
26-02-2013, 03:08
I gotta say the new Manticore takes the cake for me...so much potential...so much fail.

Kakapo42
26-02-2013, 03:26
I'm not sure I see the problem with this particular revival of the thread, as it is contributing to the original discussion at hand.

As for the subject, I actually quite like just about all of the Warhammer range. Even many of the models mentioned here (Chaos Ogres, Nagash, etc.) hold a certain charm to me. I also don't mind the static or uniform poses. Don't get me wrong, I like having dynamic variable ones just as much, but I can tolerate static or monotonous ones too.

That being said, the models I myself like the least are the 'super-saiyn' style Wood Elf Spellsingers/Spellweavers. I can see where they were going with them, but that particular look doesn't appeal to me that much. I prefer my Wood Elf mages to be a bit more subtle.

I'm also not a fan of the Tomb Scorpion, as I personally think the giant skull face looks kind of silly (and not in the good way like I think a lot of the other older Warhammer models are).

Finally, I'm not that sure about the giant porcupine-like hairdos of the Dark Elf sorceresses, mostly because I have some difficulty believing that much hair could fit on someone's scalp. But even then it's no deal-breaker.

Lord Solar Plexus
26-02-2013, 05:54
Let me start by saying that I don't much care about the models anymore. Even if some look good - not saying it is so -, my painting is guaranteed to ruin them.

The worst offender is self-evidently that Khornekannon. Ugly as a place where the sun never shines and stacked with good attributes as to make several essential components of the Dunces of C.

TheDungen
26-02-2013, 06:31
i was going to say the warshrine but then i remembered the soulgrinder.

casualgamer
26-02-2013, 06:42
While I like the Thorgrim Grudgebearer model himself his throne has got to go it looks like a bathtub (shocking) anyone agree????

JWhex
26-02-2013, 07:59
I really dislike the entire OK range of models. I dont have any criticism of the sculptors I just do not like the whole fat guy OK look and background story.

Other modern miniatures that I think are not up to average quality and have been mentioned by others are khorne segway, glaurauch, razgor, and chaos ogres. I really dislike the plastic minotaurs but plenty of people like them so it is obviously a personal taste issue and not hating on the sculptor because I dont share their aesthetic for that fantasy creature. The villitch model which many people like looks very odd to me because of the giant spike on the right shoulder pad. Wulfric looks like the random pile of trophies you would expect to find around a herdstone.

The current skaven warp lightning cannon is pretty rubbish and the previous incarnation was much better. The WLC suffers from being a dual kit. The catapult is nice but the WLC looks like a poor kitbash.

A really funny thing is that on the GW website (US) the only undead model in the VC collectors section is NAGASH !!!!!!!!! for the amazing low price of $24.95. This is a sure sign that someone has a sense of humor at GW because that is so obviously trolling us.

It is hard to judge the wacky models from the 80s and early 90s because the game really was different back then. Someone mentioned the old anvil of doom which is indeed pretty strange but I dont remember people hating on it in those days. The wackiness is mostly gone from the dwarves but the plastic infantry are very bland and boring and do not have any of the charm of the old metal models from the 80s

Brother Haephestus
26-02-2013, 08:18
Personally, if you u aren't nominating the old Nagash figure, you are wrong.

Evil Hypnotist
26-02-2013, 08:24
Chaos Ogres, I was really surprised and gutted they stayed in the range with the release of the new book. With so many decent Ogre Kingdom models to use now I don't understand why people would pay the money for these.

ftayl5
26-02-2013, 08:54
I have a Nagash model and it's terrible, so terrible that when I tried to use it to represent an Ushabti champion in a GW store, the manager told me I couldn't use it as it wasn't a GW model and refused to believe my explanation that it most certainly was.

dwarf_zepplin
26-02-2013, 09:07
While I like the Thorgrim Grudgebearer model himself his throne has got to go it looks like a bathtub (shocking) anyone agree????

Agreed! I prefer the 90's version, still one of my most treasured minatures... And what self respecting dwarf would take a bath anyway?

Jonahmaul
26-02-2013, 09:10
I have a Nagash model and it's terrible, so terrible that when I tried to use it to represent an Ushabti champion in a GW store, the manager told me I couldn't use it as it wasn't a GW model and refused to believe my explanation that it most certainly was.

Pretty worrying that a GW manager doesn't know previous miniatures. I really like the Nagash miniatures, again I feel like I might be on my own!

For bad miniatures recent history presents the god awful Jabberslythe, I hate it so much. Although my friend convert his to have a Wyvern head and it looked pretty good.

And the Khorne Cannon/War Throne thing is just simply terrible. 'I am Khorne, I demand the greatest cannon ever to spite my foes....sorry boss, we ran out of brass, will this do?'. I do not understand how someone went to whoever they go to with the concept and they said yeah, that looks great, let's put it into production.

Putro Pestilentae
26-02-2013, 09:15
I think that though pink horrors aren't bad the complete lack of the simple ability to stand up often makes me think of taking a hammer to the lot of them


Any One Who Thinks That Chaos Space Marines Are Horrible Nasty Traitors Obviously Crave The Feeling Of My Chainaxe To Their Head

Spider-pope
26-02-2013, 09:22
My own nomination would be Alith Anar. Just a terrible model all round. It was massively disappointing to read 'Shadow King', get inspired to create an army around it, head to the GW Store only to find the model is one of Gary Morley's Chimpelves.





And the Khorne Cannon/War Throne thing is just simply terrible. 'I am Khorne, I demand the greatest cannon ever to spite my foes....sorry boss, we ran out of brass, will this do?'. I do not understand how someone went to whoever they go to with the concept and they said yeah, that looks great, let's put it into production.

Really? It looks like it was taken straight from a John Blanche painting. It's not surprising at all to me that it'd get the go ahead.

TheDungen
26-02-2013, 09:48
i dotn see everyone reverence for john blanche myself, sure some of his better works have defined warhamemr style but he has also produced a lot of crap that has been allowed to impact on warhamemr style. And he's really limited, i mean look at his column in WD he only shows conversions based on that nurgle lord. Its not that he isnt good but there are so many other good concept artists out there who could actually add something to what warhammer is.

As for Nagash i love the model, sure he looks weird now but you have to judge a model by when it was released.

Jonahmaul
26-02-2013, 10:01
i dotn see everyone reverence for john blanche myself, sure some of his better works have defined warhamemr style but he has also produced a lot of crap that has been allowed to impact on warhamemr style. And he's really limited, i mean look at his column in WD he only shows conversions based on that nurgle lord. Its not that he isnt good but there are so many other good concept artists out there who could actually add something to what warhammer is.

^this. John Blanche does produce some great stuff but just because the cannon matches a picture doesn't make either of them good! A Khorne cannon should look big and imposing and not laughable.

SkawtheFalconer
26-02-2013, 10:42
Agreed - I too hate the Khorne wheelbarrow.

Vipoid
26-02-2013, 11:26
Well, from my army, my most hated miniatures are:

- Both the 'generic' foot Vampire Lord models. The female one just seems very dull, and looks as though she's attempting to wear a coral-reef. The winged one just looks... silly. His wing is in a really awkward position, and looks like he's trying to use it as a flag. If both his arms were wings, then he might have been salvageable, but one wing alone looks ridiculous. I like his 'pet' though.

- Bat Swarms (or, judging by the models, bat plants). These are in dire need of new models. Also, to judge by the teeth, a couple of the bats look like they're attempting to swallow piano keyboards.

Fear Ghoul
26-02-2013, 11:34
Has anyone mentioned Nagash yet? Or do people find him too comical to hate?

Scammel
26-02-2013, 11:49
Has anyone mentioned Nagash yet? Or do people find him too comical to hate?

Not a word of a lie, that model was intentionally made to be awful. The sculptor purposefully made the horrible skeleton head so that the other, zombified head he produced for it would be put on sale instead, but the plan backfired and the decision-makers went for the former.

ArtificerArmour
26-02-2013, 11:57
I love the khorne cannon and have ordered two.

lbecks
26-02-2013, 12:01
Beast of Nurgle tops my list as worst model in the current GW range.

Urgat
26-02-2013, 12:32
I love the khorne cannon and have ordered two.

Considering your username and your avatar, I'm willing, for once, to believe that it has nothing to do with their rules, but that won't work a second time ;)

Spider-pope
26-02-2013, 13:30
^this. John Blanche does produce some great stuff but just because the cannon matches a picture doesn't make either of them good! A Khorne cannon should look big and imposing and not laughable.

No, that they are good makes them good. I love the cannon, i intend to buy four or five to split between my 40k and Fantasy Daemons.


Not a word of a lie, that model was intentionally made to be awful. The sculptor purposefully made the horrible skeleton head so that the other, zombified head he produced for it would be put on sale instead, but the plan backfired and the decision-makers went for the former.

I've never bought that story myself. It smacks too much of Gary trying to come up with an excuse for the monstrosity. And besides even if his head were zombied up, that doesnt excuse the terrible torso, arms and lower body.

Wesser
26-02-2013, 13:44
Galrauch, no question

When it came out they could have told me it was a chaos spawn. It's poorly sculpted with weird proportions and so thin that even skeletons seem tubby by comparison. Soooo ugly

Empire Wizardwagons: Aside from the fact that they are basically a moving weatherman and a literal glass cannon... This thing should not be able to move.
1. I'm skeptical if the horses could actually pull such a monstrosity, but im not horse breeder...ill let it slide
2. Simple gravity should ensure that either the back axle will break or the wagon will tip on the side

They have individually redeeming features such as the horses, so are better than Galrauch though

Bad monkey
26-02-2013, 13:53
Nagash the evil clown, not really much else needing to be said there.

Jonahmaul
26-02-2013, 14:07
No, that they are good makes them good. I love the cannon, i intend to buy four or five to split between my 40k and Fantasy Daemons

I think we'll have to agree to disagree. However, you are in a minority of people who like them! And the first one that I've heard (seen?) admit it.


I've never bought that story myself. It smacks too much of Gary trying to come up with an excuse for the monstrosity. And besides even if his head were zombied up, that doesnt excuse the terrible torso, arms and lower body.

I agree with you. Seems very unlikely.

GlenMorray
26-02-2013, 15:10
Oh the Nagash model has to win. so bad it hurts!

MR.Tea
26-02-2013, 15:20
Welll, my vote goes to the Dark Elf Dreadlord with hand weapon...bad face, saucage fingers, flat part where sleeve hole is suposed to be, all in all terrible model...And to make things worse, it camed alongside some good DE minis IMO, wich made it even worse...

Importman
26-02-2013, 15:26
Nagash the clown is pretty bad. So bad it's almost comical.

The zombie plastics are also very horrible, and I don't mean horrible in a good way.

The new plastic minotaurs are just plain bad. But I guess a lot of people had pretty high expectations prior to its release.

Sent from my GT-N7105 using Tapatalk 2

ColShaw
26-02-2013, 15:58
Pumbagor. All the way.

casualgamer
27-02-2013, 06:30
Agreed! I prefer the 90's version, still one of my most treasured minatures... And what self respecting dwarf would take a bath anyway?

Now that 90's version you're talking about is a cool model, Lol you're right its not very Dwarvish if they bath. The new bath tub model probably has a plug down the bottom to drain the water out:)

Brother Haephestus
27-02-2013, 06:39
I think that though pink horrors aren't bad the complete lack of the simple ability to stand up often makes me think of taking a hammer to the lot of themI went to my Lowes Home Improvement Store, spent about $1.10 on a bag of 3/8" Zinc washers (10 per bag) and glued them to the bases. Even the EXTREMELY top-heavy standard bearer stands on his own now (but still a tad tipsy). In fact, the added heft to the figures made me so happy, I have started gluing the washers to all my plastic and finecast figures. It just feels ... better. I hated working with metals, but I do miss the heft of them.

veiled
27-02-2013, 20:04
Got to be the razorgor or the chaos ogres/trolls

woodster17
27-02-2013, 20:13
- Bat Swarms (or, judging by the models, bat plants). These are in dire need of new models. Also, to judge by the teeth, a couple of the bats look like they're attempting to swallow piano keyboards.

Ha! Yes, 100% agree. Terrible models that I steer well clear off. Shame because i'd like to try them out one day. I'd also add the Konrad sculpt, just looks a bit wacky to me. He's supposed to be a fruit basket but a sinister depraved fruit basket, not a member of the Looney Tunes.

Vipoid
27-02-2013, 20:41
Ha! Yes, 100% agree. Terrible models that I steer well clear off. Shame because i'd like to try them out one day.

Indeed, I'd also like to give bat swarms a try - especially their ability to confer ASL an enemy units.

However, GW is off its rocker if it thinks I'll pay £15.50 for two of those abominable models.

ColShaw
27-02-2013, 21:38
Indeed, I'd also like to give bat swarms a try - especially their ability to confer ASL an enemy units.

However, GW is off its rocker if it thinks I'll pay £15.50 for two of those abominable models.

http://www.reapermini.com/OnlineStore/bat%20swarm/sku-down/03355

http://www.reapermini.com/OnlineStore/bat/sku-down/02668

http://www.reapermini.com/OnlineStore/bat/sku-down/P03355B

http://www.reapermini.com/OnlineStore/bat/sku-down/P02668B

http://www.reapermini.com/OnlineStore/bat/sku-down/P02668A

snottlebocket
27-02-2013, 21:53
Oh man, that sounds too good. You don't have a picture of it do you?

He probably means this 5th edition wight lord. http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m2130187a_99800207020_MountedWightKingCFC01_445x31 9.jpg

I actually rather like it. The hunched and sagging look of the horse makes it look far less energetic than it's living counter parts. Most undead steeds are still cantering like show horses.

Jack of Blades
27-02-2013, 22:35
I was going on about the Khorne cannon, but my peeve with it essentially comes down to it being operated by bloodletters. Bloodletters are not technicians, they are rage, killing, aggression. They can ride chariots because they help them achieve what they want which is to get in close combat to gather the skulls of mortals and offer their blood to Khorne, they can use weapons for the same reason, but operating a cannon is not something I think a bloodletter should do unless it's there more for show than to operate it, in which case, why is it there?

If it was crewed by some perhaps new kind of daemon like the tortured, twisted souls of cannon operators slain in the name of Khorne I would've thought that the designer captured the need for it to essentially be khornate thanks to the chariot-thing being a monstrous daemon in itself while still filling the need to have a being that can actually operate the cannon, but a bloodletter? nope. Looks completely tacked on.

Marked_by_chaos
27-02-2013, 22:44
There are a few candidates and for some models it is really only certain elements which could be redeemable.

Off the top of my head.

Razorgor
New khorne cannons/chariot
Tau ethereal (some)
Flamer chariot - nice herald bits redeem the kit but the flame effect is terrible especially from the front or back
Witch elves - compare with Lilith or Isabella von Carstein to see how terrible the anatomy is
Thunder wolf cavalry
Gorger - mainly for the pose
Wolfen
Plastic Saurus old blood
Chimera - the central head is terrible

I am sure there are a few other candidates.

MeatGrinder
27-02-2013, 23:11
I hate the new chaos Forsaken. The parts themselves are beautiful, and I've used loads of them for conversions, but the models themselves come together to look absolutely stupid.

Vipoid
27-02-2013, 23:15
http://www.reapermini.com/OnlineStore/bat%20swarm/sku-down/03355

http://www.reapermini.com/OnlineStore/bat/sku-down/02668

http://www.reapermini.com/OnlineStore/bat/sku-down/P03355B

http://www.reapermini.com/OnlineStore/bat/sku-down/P02668B

http://www.reapermini.com/OnlineStore/bat/sku-down/P02668A

Thanks for those links, Colshaw - now I don't think I'll bother waiting for GW to release a decent bat swarm model. :D

GlenMorray
27-02-2013, 23:42
Veiled, Chaos Trolls? No way man, has anyone mentioned Chaos Dwarfs yet!? Yikes...