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Galvatron1701
13-04-2007, 19:09
Hi everyone, I wasnt sure where to put this, so Mods if you could move it to the appropriate section please.

I'm having a problem with Ogryns for my Guard force. While I want to add a squad to give the army some offensive punch, I'm weary of doing so for two reasons. Firstly, I dont like the current Ogryn models, accept for Nork of course, and secondly because of my army's background. (a regiment raised in Ulramar where abhumans wouldnt be tolerated).

I have thought about simply using marines on the appropriately sized base to represent Ogryns, and was wondering about the legality of this?

Lord Malek The Red Knight
13-04-2007, 19:15
I have thought about simply using marines on the appropriately sized base to represent Ogryns, and was wondering about the legality of this?
if they were in Power Armour, then it wouldnt be WYSIWYG (same goes if they had Bolters etc instead of Ripper Guns). if you fielded them nude/in robes/wearing 'light' armour, carrying the appropriate weapons, then it shouldnt be much of a problem (you could say they are Marines who have given up their armour because they dishonoured the chapter, or something - a bit like Repentia, for example).

if they are smaller than Ogryn models, WYSIWYG LOS to/from them would be different (although this isnt illegal by RaW).

hope that helps :)

~ Tim

Commissar Vaughn
13-04-2007, 19:35
how about an ogryn sized batlesuit type thing? obviously a lot cruder than a Tau suit...


Ive got an image in my head of those mechwalker things from Matrix Revolution.

jfrazell
13-04-2007, 19:41
You have an opportunity here.

Ultramar is reasonably advanced yes? Then try

*combat servitors. Mix a servitor model with catachan top for some bulkiness, or alternatively utilize something akin to the SOB mini (the one with the flails). Use an ogryn sized base (if there is a difference). Voila.

*Similarly cybernetically enhanced humans. Cherry them out with bioenhancements, and carrying an unwieldy orky like shoota (or cut down heavy stubber if available). Start with a heavy ork model of suitable size, replace the head with a spare human head, and you’re ready to roll.

keatsmeister
13-04-2007, 19:49
The idea of a back-to-basics battlesuit is a good one. Just as a starting point, I'd probably look at using Ork Mega Armour as a starting point for conversions. The primitive look would convey the right sort of improvised nature of what you would be looking for, and Ork weaponry just about covers any Ogryn weaponry, though obviously you'd need to find an alternative for the Power Claw. Perhaps use a termie arm with some flashlights attached, the flashlight arm extended to scout for targets, and the ripper gun held close to the hip. The sheer size of the gun, and the primitive look of the suit would also cover the mismatch of any human BS and that of the Ogryn-proxy you'll have created.

Those are my thoughts anyway

jfrazell
13-04-2007, 19:55
http://store.us.games-workshop.com/storefront/store.us?do=List_Models&code=301925&orignav=300925&ParentID=214729&GameNav=10

Just sub in a head and voila Mark I Imperial combat suit

Lord Malek The Red Knight
13-04-2007, 20:04
http://store.us.games-workshop.com/storefront/store.us?do=List_Models&code=301925&orignav=300925&ParentID=214729&GameNav=10

Just sub in a head and voila Mark I Imperial combat suit
for a BONE'ead w/Carapace, maybe... but for a 5+ Sv Ogryn?

~ Tim

jfrazell
13-04-2007, 20:17
Sure. Like a wraithlord the strength of the suit is represented with more wounds and greater strength (I can't remember if their toughness is increased-never saw one in actual play).

We're dealing with the law of the minimum here. No abhumans (else an Ogryn or ork model would work fine). An orkie big boy is a relatively moderately priced and converted opportunity.

Galvatron1701
13-04-2007, 20:50
Many thanks for the idea chaps, I particularly like the idea of converting the mega armoured Nobz. I'm gonna give it a go once I et a little cash. I'll post the results in the modelling section when I'm done! many thnaks again!

jfrazell
13-04-2007, 21:19
Many thanks for the idea chaps, I particularly like the idea of converting the mega armoured Nobz. I'm gonna give it a go once I et a little cash. I'll post the results in the modelling section when I'm done! many thnaks again!

I would suggest checking here, bartertown and Ebay. You might be able to get a good deal or two.

Agamemnon2
13-04-2007, 21:24
I'm having a problem with Ogryns for my Guard force. While I want to add a squad to give the army some offensive punch, I'm weary of doing so for two reasons.

If you want to add Ogryns for offensive punch, you're in for a very rude awakening. Their rules make them much more a liability than an asset, and do not even function all that well as a speedbump.

Quin 242
13-04-2007, 21:24
I would suggest proxying some models for a couple of games and determining once and for all that Ogryn's as an assault force SOLIDLY fail.

They can be used to OK effect as a speed-bump counter assault force but as an actual attacking force? they suck.

They can cause wounds to some degree but armor saves of any kind slow them right down and they tend to die quickly so it's just not feasable to use them that way.

Lord Cook
13-04-2007, 21:43
I considered the mechanized suits a while ago, but ogryns are just too poor in-game to make it worth it. The options were either to use ork mega-armoured nobs or tau stealthsuits as the basis for the conversion.

I was going to call them the 'Macharius MkII Combat Suit', nicknamed the "Outstanding Gadget for Repulsing Your Nemesis", or O.G.R.Y.N for short. I know. I'm sorry.

Still, might be worth it if you're not that bothered about competitiveness and just want a cool conversion.


.

Onisuzume
14-04-2007, 10:49
What about Chrono Gladiators like this one (http://uk.games-workshop.com/storefront/store.uk?do=Individual&code=99111399033&orignav=300808)?
This one is obviously too big, but it's the idea that counts.

Which would account for the ripper guns. (poor accuracy but trigger-happy)
As well as the strength/toughness. (all those bionic parts are going to have som effect on that)

junglesnake
14-04-2007, 13:29
Why not buy the ogryn arms from direct and then buy some Ogres from fantasy and go ape?!!!

Mech ogryns sounds ok - but surely what you want to do is convert a sentinel at which point I would argue what you are building is a more advanced sentinel and so don't!

the_raptor
14-04-2007, 14:03
if they were in Power Armour, then it wouldnt be WYSIWYG (same goes if they had Bolters etc instead of Ripper Guns).

Counts As.

superknijn
14-04-2007, 14:43
Well, that's really stretching counts as; as a guideline, you shouldn't use counts as when it looks very similar to something that already has rules.

pookie
14-04-2007, 14:55
[QUOTE=junglesnake;1469788]Why not buy the ogryn arms from direct and then buy some Ogres from fantasy and go ape?!!!

QUOTE]

Ogre Kingdoms ogres are much better alternatives and close to the Ogryn Look, all you really need to add is some GS Carapace and use the ripper gun thats held out, quite simple conversions, if i had a cam, id show you mine.

Quin 242
14-04-2007, 16:39
Then again.. I made the conversions for Ogryns so I'm GONNA use them now and again no matter how SUCK they are "in game"
http://xs114.xs.to/xs114/07156/DSC00014.JPG

Still need to get out the GS and give them proper boots but they will do for now.

ancient_conflict
14-04-2007, 16:49
erm on the more fluff side of things you coyld say that they are local troops being assigned to the company to assist with a particular mission or assist in taking a possition that the comanders would be reluctant to send there well trained guardsmen into "who cares if a few abhumans die" sort of thing

Galvatron1701
14-04-2007, 16:54
erm on the more fluff side of things you coyld say that they are local troops being assigned to the company to assist with a particular mission or assist in taking a possition that the comanders would be reluctant to send there well trained guardsmen into "who cares if a few abhumans die" sort of thing

True, though I would rather have an army entirely of humans, as their space marine friends dissaprove of abhumans.

As for the idea of Ogryns being more a counter-punch force, I had noticed this after reading/watching several battle reports. However, while I would have preferred rough riders, I again dont like the current GW range, nor do I have the practice in converting my own on bikes etc. I thought that Ogryn's would have been the easier solution, given my original idea of using marines.

Lord Cook
14-04-2007, 21:02
True, though I would rather have an army entirely of humans, as their space marine friends dissaprove of abhumans.

All the more reason to use the abhumans, as far as I'm concerned.


.

ancient_conflict
15-04-2007, 18:14
who would you rather send into the breach i.e. to certain death abhumans or Humans?????

if i was from ultramar i would choose the abhumans as at least you get something productive from it rather that just killingthem

Steffan Von Rotstein
15-04-2007, 18:29
who would you rather send into the breach i.e. to certain death abhumans or Humans?????

if i was from ultramar i would choose the abhumans as at least you get something productive from it rather that just killingthem
If I were from Ultramar, I would be wondering why the hell our PDF is doing this instead of our local Space Marine chapter...

Shrike30
15-04-2007, 20:03
When you've got a grand total of 1,000 chapter members, of whom many may be away on a task at the moment, and a couple hundred thousand xenos show up, having a few hundred thousand lasrifles on the wall is probably more useful than having a few companies worth of bolters. If nothing else, you can hold more locations.

It's the same problem as always... SM's are a tactical shock unit, not meant for flat-out field warfare. Their equipment and options (medium tanks, mobile short range artillery, terminators, drop pods, lots of elite guys with rifles, etc) reflect this pretty well. Sticking them into a fight where the term "attrition" comes into use is one quick way to severely reduce the number of marines you've got alive in your chapter.

Linear frames (basically, a lighter-armored power suit, adds strength more than anything else) would be wonderful ogryn substitutes. Stick a guardsman in there, give him flak armor plates mounted on the suit, some sort of belt-fed shotgun, and an attachment on the back that represents some sort of automated medical system (those three wounds? he really only has one, it's just that his suit's medkit patches him up a couple times before he finally falls over) or combat drug injector (those three wounds? he really only has one, it's just that he's too high to realize he's dead until you really tear him into pieces).

keatsmeister
15-04-2007, 21:35
Linear frames (basically, a lighter-armored power suit, adds strength more than anything else) would be wonderful ogryn substitutes. Stick a guardsman in there, give him flak armor plates mounted on the suit, some sort of belt-fed shotgun, and an attachment on the back that represents some sort of automated medical system (those three wounds? he really only has one, it's just that his suit's medkit patches him up a couple times before he finally falls over) or combat drug injector (those three wounds? he really only has one, it's just that he's too high to realize he's dead until you really tear him into pieces).

Or simply the suit has several layers of ablative armour that can only withstand so many hits before giving way. This also solves the issue of using Ork Mega Armour as a starting point for conversion, the thickness of the armour being attributed to several layers

Galvatron1701
16-04-2007, 01:43
If I were from Ultramar, I would be wondering why the hell our PDF is doing this instead of our local Space Marine chapter...

no one has said anything about a PDF regiment. The last book in the ultramarine trilogy tells us that regiments from Ultramar are raised and sent all over the place. A PDF regeiment is exactly that, planetary defence.

ancient_conflict
16-04-2007, 09:38
precisely my point when your away from home why wouldn't you use local troops and expertise if ogryns are present this may be due to the local conditions that ogryn types are better suited for