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schoolcormorant
16-04-2007, 23:13
i am watching Newsnight as i write this, an article about Tolkien's 'new' book, the children of Hurin. I heard the name last year, when it was first mooted over at TLA. anyway.
will you read this book?

i'm fairly sure i will, i thoroughly enjoyed the Silmarillion, so these other stories, out of well known middle earth (i'm thinking the well known areas of LotR trilogy).
the book is set in an area of middle earth "which no longer exists, througout the LotR trilogy"

and the interest seems to be on "incest, and most of the protagonists in the book kill themselves"

i'm fairly sure this book will apeal to a different fanbase than the LotR movies, but i thought i'd ask :)

SC

Cpt_NinjaPants
16-04-2007, 23:38
I have ir pre ordered, and i can't wait!

verydarkshadow
16-04-2007, 23:38
Of course!

Osbad
17-04-2007, 10:56
Never liked the Narn i hin Hurin in Unfinished Tales or the Silmo. Can't say I'm eager to read this version either. I just found the story very depressing and I have no desire to read a fuller, modified version of it I'm afraid.

This one won't be finding its way onto my bookshelf.

Dr Death
17-04-2007, 14:09
I am rather enthusiastic about it because of its implications for the continuation of the middle earth legacy. Regardless of what people may throw at Christopher Tolkien about 'cashing in' on his father's legacy i dont think it holds water (otherwise as a friend pointed out he could have produced a lot more and a lot more often). As I see it, the work of Christopher is ensuring that Middle Earth and its myths lives on even when the author may not without throwing it out for anyone to an uncertain future in the fan-fiction arena.

All posthumous publications have been produced (imho) with the utmost care and reverence to the source without ever 'glossing over' the complications of the matter. However i think Christopher Tolkien (or one of the younger Tolkiens since Christopher is getting on a bit) could take it one step further and do as they have with CoH, drawing from the notes and versions of the myth to create further complete narrative tales. Obviously it wouldnt be J.R.R Tolkien himself and it would have to be explicitly stated but more "J.R.R Tolkien by those who know him best"; transforming the various reams of essays and drafts into (as far as may be without loosing their detail) a more traditional written form.

In that sense one could continue the 'living myth' of Middle Earth in a form of 'Quasi canon' using the beautiful narratives which obviously would have, given the time (serial longevity shall we say?;)) found their way into a completed form by Tolkien's own hand.

To my eyes it would be a genuine tragedy if either the estate or the fans (or both) were over conservative- locking the myth of middle earth into a sealed vault in the museum of literary history; a relic to what might have been. Rome wasnt built in a day and such altruistic literary constructions such as middle earth arent either and so one should not shy from at least attempting to progress on the blueprint left behind. Tolkien may have died but Frodo lives!

So yes.... I will buy and read the Children of Hurin:rolleyes:

Dr Death

Von Wallace
17-04-2007, 14:59
You bet, I have my Barnes and Noble coupon ready and willing to save me money :) I go tonight to reap my rewards of spending way too much money at B&N

Huzzah!

Lord Anathir
17-04-2007, 15:48
I love the silmarillion, so i will read it yes.

schoolcormorant
18-04-2007, 17:34
Regardless of what people may throw at Christopher Tolkien about 'cashing in' on his father's legacy i dont think it holds water (otherwise as a friend pointed out he could have produced a lot more and a lot more often).

that i agree with, considering (if you believe it) that Tolkien, wrote/told the stories for his kids and what have you, it must have been of interest to him, so he probably really enjoys and works hard writing/collating them.

SC

Horus84
18-04-2007, 21:26
Picked my copy up today. I'll be reading it over the next few days. Very nice looking art by the fab and always wonderful Alan Lee thoughout the book - Some black and white, but much in colour.

Bob5000
18-04-2007, 22:49
Not certain , I didn't get along with the Silmarillion despite trying a couple of times , if a book doesn't get me interested fairly quickly , I won't waste any of my life trying to get into it .
It would be nice if a review or two was posted :)

ChrisAsmadi
19-04-2007, 15:15
I intend to buy it on Friday, and as it was a good story in the Silmarillion, I'm sure it'll rock.

CaptainRichard
19-04-2007, 15:53
i think the children of hurin will be an excellent addition to tolkiens endless stream of fantasy. iv always wanted more detail than was available in unfinished tales, the silmarillion and the like. i just wonder what so long to get it released

brightblade
19-04-2007, 18:52
loved the tale of turin turambar. so of course will be buying it. love the Silmarillion and agree with captain richard that more detail can only be a good thing.
remember kids, stay away from black swords that can talk.
Elric didn't and look what happened to him!

RobC
19-04-2007, 20:22
Tolkien must not become any more of a franchise. Why must fandom destroy what it loves? Why can't we just treasure the greatness that was created rather than pick over the remnants of what must be a virtually exhausted notebook? And heaven forbid that the Tolkien estate ever agree to spinoff books...

Adept
19-04-2007, 23:00
Tolkien must not become any more of a franchise. Why must fandom destroy what it loves? Why can't we just treasure the greatness that was created rather than pick over the remnants of what must be a virtually exhausted notebook? And heaven forbid that the Tolkien estate ever agree to spinoff books...

This is definately where I'm coming from. I'll buy and read the book, and see if I like it, but I'd be much more comfortable if the existing Tolkien range were to be left untouched, unaltered, and pristine.

Lord Of The Night
20-04-2007, 03:40
i've just bought it yesterday and already I like it.
I'd suggest picking it up

CaptainRichard
20-04-2007, 10:11
i have to say that some people may disagree that tolkiens work should be carried on but it was the man himself who said he wanted to create a work of literature that anyone would be able to carry on and add to. true we shudnt agree with the random spin offs and books that are made for pure monetary purposes but christopher tolkien is a man that loved his dads work and wouldnt abuse his position. children of hurin im sure is just a book that answers a lot of questions that weve all wanted to know the answers to!

mattjgilbert
20-04-2007, 10:20
Yep... amazon delivered it on the day of release. Of course, it just added to the rather alarming pile of books I have to read but I will get to it eventually...

Dr Death
20-04-2007, 13:49
Tolkien must not become any more of a franchise. Why must fandom destroy what it loves? Why can't we just treasure the greatness that was created rather than pick over the remnants of what must be a virtually exhausted notebook? And heaven forbid that the Tolkien estate ever agree to spinoff books...

And leave it in some kind of literary stasis? Leave it at simply that 'notebook', when there are so many unfinished tales within his work that obviously deserve to be told? Here is a peice of living, breathing myth which like all the greats is strong enough in it's integrity to survive any potential extrepolation 'guffs' that it may have to endure. Why then renegate it to a position in the archives? All i ask is that it be done carefully and reverentially and that is how Christopher Tolkien appears to be dealing with it.

Imho, given the number of stories and the huge reams of drafts, essays and revisions; "all" it would take is someone with a similar interest and understanding of the myths Tolkien was inspired by and a knowledge of his works to do a reasonable job of continuing the job Tolkien started. Tolkien himself was merely an enthusiast with an educated knowledge of his sources when he created middle earth, why couldnt another enthusiast with a cautious mind continue them?

Obviously i do not support 'fan fiction' since most writers of the breed dont have the required level of understanding to successfully 'continue' rather than simply 'mimic' Tolkien's writings, but as i mentioned before "Tolkien by those who know him best" could be a valid area of expansion of the Middle Earth mythology and would in the most conservative and reverential manner be a means to continue breathing life into the work rather than leaving it to die with the original author.

So yes, with all due respect and with a sizable portion of agreement (since it could so easily go wrong) i have to disagree with both RobC's and Adept's comments.

Dr Death

Cpt_NinjaPants
20-04-2007, 15:21
Read it, and loved it, that's all i can say!

Adept
20-04-2007, 18:07
And leave it in some kind of literary stasis? Leave it at simply that 'notebook', when there are so many unfinished tales within his work that obviously deserve to be told? Here is a peice of living, breathing myth which like all the greats is strong enough in it's integrity to survive any potential extrepolation 'guffs' that it may have to endure. Why then renegate it to a position in the archives? All i ask is that it be done carefully and reverentially and that is how Christopher Tolkien appears to be dealing with it.

If it could be guaranteed that it would be done carefully and reverentially, I would agree. And Christopher does indeed seem to be doing an excellent job, and I shall certainly be buying the Children of Hurin, simply to see how much I like it and because I'm a shameless Tolkien fanboy, to the extent that as I write this I have a painting desk full of LotR miniatures, the Big Blue Book sitting on my computer desk next to me, the Battle for Middle Earth playing on my x-box 360 in the background, a large block mounted map of Middle Earth hanging above my bed, and a dog-eared well-read copy of LotR under my pillow, being re-read for the thousandth time!

However, I have seen too many great stories ruined by forced continuation and extrapolation. If the first Rocky had been a stand-alone movie, it would have been great. Star Wars would have been better had the prequel trilogy never existed. Star Trek should have stopped as soon as Shatner stopped appearing on the screen, Stargate should never have been a series, the Matrix should never have had sequels, and the list goes on.

I know I'm happy with Tolkiens works as they stand. I'm not sure if I'll like CoH, but I'll give it a go and the early reviews are positive. But I certainly don't want more and more books to be produced, and while I know Christopher is very protective of his fathers works, will Christophers successors be as vigilant?

I would prefer to lock them away as classic novels, to be savoured for all time in their pristine state, than risk having them sullied by people whose visions of middle earth are too different from the good Professors for me to tolerate.

Dr Death
20-04-2007, 18:44
But the books will always remain as they are- Unfinished tales isnt about to be edited because CoH is out now so there will always be the 'unaltered' words of Tolkien. There's huge amounts of fanfiction out with all kinds of crazy things written but that doesnt effect my perception of the works in themselves (i dont know about you but i'm 99% sure you're the same). I just see this vast structure that Tolkien has left and it strikes me as insanity to be over-conservative about it when the lead is so clear that the 'fans' wouldnt wish for it to be filled out (it could never be completed due partially to the sheer vastness and also due to the simple problem of 'what is complete?')

For example though- Tolkien has his 3 'great tales'. The Children of Hurin (or more specifically the Narn i chin Hurin) was one and the most complete but what about the other two: The story of Beren and Luthien and Tuor/Earendil? Aparrently they're not nearly as developed as the Narn but none the less, wouldnt it be fantastic if someone could come in and do a similar treatment as with the Children of Hurin to them, filling in the gaps where nessercary?

It may not be perfect, but just as CoH is intended to, it would be a means of bringing a full, and comparitively detailed narrative of these tales into a more accessable and self-contained medium rather than trawling through the various posthumous publications for either comparitively sketchy versions (the silmarillion) or incomplete versions (Unfinished Tales, HoME) of the tales.

For me at least, this seems the most logical and reverential 'next step' in ensuring the works of J.R.R Tolkien continue to be told.

Dr Death

Adept
20-04-2007, 19:22
For me at least, this seems the most logical and reverential 'next step' in ensuring the works of J.R.R Tolkien continue to be told.

Dr Death

You make a very compelling argument, and I find myself agreeing!

:eek:

static grass
20-04-2007, 19:41
I have the book now and after reading the first few pages I am feeling that Tolkien feeling all over.

I think Christopher Tolkien has done a great job preserving his farther's work. Tolkien didn't write his work in isolation and his son was clearly part of the process. I think Christopher is a unique person with regards to the big mans work and he is the best person to edit a book like this.

I am sure if they feel if they can expand on the existing litarture and do it justice then there will be more releases.

As for the theme being incredibly depressing... well... it is partially inspired by finnish mythology which in itself is not exactly a barrel of laughs. Skøl!

Ktotwf
23-04-2007, 01:40
I am curious, since I won't be getting the book soon due to financial constraints more than anything else, if Sauron and Morgoth make personal appearances?

That would be interesting to me because the Dark Lords of LOTR are always distant shadowy figures, and I am curious as to how they are portrayed if they are at all.

Dr Death
23-04-2007, 08:43
Morgoth does indeed make a personal appearence in one of the early chapters of the book. It is he who tries to convince Hurin to surrender his knowledge of the location of Gondolin and when Hurin refuses, imprisons and curses Hurin.

Dr Death

Jellicoe
23-04-2007, 13:51
I will probably buy for completeness sake but would note the cautionary tale of the Dune prequels done by Frank herbert's son which are utter rubbish compared to his father's work. The butlerian johad trology being particularly woeful