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Da Boyzz
21-04-2007, 01:51
I am lost as to why people would use the chaos sorceror instead of a bray shaman?

They both can have a mark of the Gods, they both can have HoC equipment, they both can be from lvl 1 to lvl 4. But the bray costs less points...

So what is it that seperates the 2?

I am building a slaanesh heavy on magic army atm and i want to know which i shouls take, atm i am planning on taking Brays because they cost less points, but i see alot of other people take the sorceror.

Help me! Which is better??

MalusCalibur
21-04-2007, 01:53
Better statline and Chaos Armour.

Thats what.


MalusCalibur

Jonke
21-04-2007, 02:17
It isn't very fluffy to take a bray-shaman in a (pure) mortal army.

Peace!

MarcoPollo
21-04-2007, 02:22
The brayshaman has a better stat line in my opinion. It has 2 standard attacks at ws 4 and st 3. So what if it doesn't have armor, you can protect it well in a beastherd as skirmisher form up how you like when the herd gets into combat. If you like you can buy the chaos armor for him. This way you get to put him up against regular troops. Plus he can have a braystaff which can be used on the defense as well as offense.

They do have worse ld. But if you use a beastherd, the champion has higher ld than the shaman. Plus you can cast 360 los out of herd + ... + ... + ...

|twynsic|e
21-04-2007, 03:10
What lore are you taking, and what does your force comprise of? I was also initially leaning towards a shaman, but looking at the short range of slaanesh magic and that a shaman can't be mounted, or even take a chariot, i realised he wouldn't keep up with the rest of my force and be useful.
Instead i've brought an exalted demon, better statline, wings, can safely be in combat and cast spells...

ZomboCom
21-04-2007, 13:27
You'd need to have a beast unit for him to hide in, which not everyone wants to use.

xiau
21-04-2007, 13:39
You'd need to have a beast unit for him to hide in, which not everyone wants to use.

^^ usually the case, well it is to people iv'e spoken to, also if for some reason your spellcaster was ever forced into cc, a chaos sorceror can really kick some ass

Hywel
21-04-2007, 15:11
To be quite honest, the main reason for me is I'd feel like a bit of a tit taking a shaman when my army is mainly mortal. I do use a beastherd and minotaurs as well, but it just feels wrong for me to use the cheaper spellcaster in this case.

However, it doesn't upset me too much. The chaos sorceror models rock my world, they can be mounted to get a more than respectable 2+ save and their Ld8 is quite nifty for helping out your marauders, freeing up my general to go zipping around on his boobworm.

Aorek
21-04-2007, 16:46
As has been pointed out the biggest diffrence is where you can place them. Beast heros only fit in beast units and mortals only fit in mortal units.

So if all you take a couple of herds to screen your mortals you prolly dont want your casters in such throwaway units. But on the flip side one in there is probably very decent because of the 360 los.

If your mostly beasts then it its pretty easy take the shamen cause they're better and cheaper ;)

Martyr
21-04-2007, 17:02
So what is it that seperates the 2?

IMO, its Ld 8 vs. Ld 6.

the bray shaman has 1 more M one less S 1 less I but 1 more A and a Ld of 6. In a mortal army most people take these guys as scroll caddies and maybe a backup caster. The Bray only cost 10 pts less than the Sorcerer anyway.


-Martyr

TheWarSmith
21-04-2007, 17:31
Benefits of both

Chaos sorcerer
Access to different lores(depending on what you want)
much better leadership
access to enchanted items(not that huge an advantage)
access to mounts

Bray shaman
Different lore(beasts)
bray staff
access to more arcane items(beast and/or shaman only)
can be put in skirmishing units which are harder to hit with ranged weapons
M5



Bray shamans can have 2+ armour saves just like chaos sorcs, but the staff gives them the option to womp on the opponent too by using it as a great weapon.

cold0
21-04-2007, 17:44
Chaos Sorcerer.

The reason is the access to the chaos steed/daemonic mounts/slannesh steed.

The mounts high mobilty helps to put the spell "in range" starting from the first turn.

But I'm an exception. In Italy I have seen only bray shamans in tournaments 'cause they are less expensive.

TheWarSmith
21-04-2007, 18:44
Only the sorcerer lords can get daemonic steeds

MarcoPollo
21-04-2007, 20:20
The ld difference between the two is not that much in terms of game play. If you use a bray shaman you need to put him in a herd for protection and the herd champion has ld 7 so the herd uses that ld. You can easily get around the ld issue with a bray shaman by how you place your very mobile herd. In some cases, it can use a doombull's, ld 9 if the herd is close enough to use it. Just have a few skirmishing models drift towards the ld area of the doombull or other general.

The herd will afford the look out sir rule to the shaman, it skirmishes so it has 360 los, ranks -1 to hit from small arms fire, allows characters in the unit to rank up in the front of the unit according to the wishes of the player.

Bretagne
21-04-2007, 20:37
lore of beasts is pretty good. thats why i like the bray shaman. and i can yell, "wave yo hands in da air, if yous a true brayah!"

Tsot
21-04-2007, 21:37
The Chaos sorcerer costs 10 points more but comes standard with chaos armor, if you want your bray to be well protected you'll have to get chaos armor anyways so the points cost comes to the same. Other than that they both have their advantages and disadvantages. Bray shamans have to slog it on foot, but they have increased protection, more combat potential, and a 360 LoS; of course if you purchase a bray you also need to get a herd. Sorcerers are faster, and little weaker in combat, and they have better leadership.

In terms of lord level characters the stat lines are nearly the same, except brays have 1 more in movement and 1 less leadership. But the Exalted sorcerer costs 45 points more (after giving the bray chaos armor).

Voltaire
21-04-2007, 23:27
Miniatures wise, the options for a Chaos Sorceror are better in terms of being able to customise. If you want to go on the merits of choice, Chaos Armour, a Barded Chaos Steed and the ability still take 50 points of Magical wonderment is enough to persuade me that a Beasts Sorceror should stay with the Beasts force.

Thematically speaking though, it can vary - I wouldn't surrender a few points to sacrifice a theme.

Khorne warrior
22-04-2007, 05:05
>>I think one of the things that may happen is that it ends up being your decision. If you want a cheap magician, take the bray Shaman. If you expect things CC-wise from your wizards, take the sorceror

Da Boyzz
22-04-2007, 08:22
But... i believe the wizard of the force is not there for close combat, he is there to cast his spells.
With this train of thought, am i best of with the shamans?
This is my plan so far:

Exalted Chaos sorcerer
Lvl 4, MoS, Skull of Katam, chaos steed
369pts

Bray Shaman
MoS, Lvl 2, Spell familiar, Power stone
???pts

Bray Shaman
MoS, Lvl 2, Power stone, dispel scroll
???pts

Is this a good set up?

fearchanges
22-04-2007, 18:42
the fact that a bray-shaman also can take heavy armour + the bray staff is great, give him also the bears anger (due to the arcane itmes of the beastmen) and he rocks as hell.
I like this guy very much.

Voltaire
22-04-2007, 18:46
It is generally an accepted norm for Slaanesh sorcerors to wield the Daemon Sword with either a spell familiar or a Talisman of Protection, as this provides a combat monster and a spell caster for a very reasonable price.

Da Boyzz
23-04-2007, 07:51
So anyway Do i take Bray or Chaos??? That is the real question here.

cold0
23-04-2007, 09:32
Only the sorcerer lords can get daemonic steeds

The normal sorcerer of Chaos ".....may ride a Daemonic Mount (+ 50 pt.)... Alternatively a character with a Mark of Slaanesh may ride a Steed of Slaanesh...." Horde of Chaos page 59

TheWarSmith
23-04-2007, 14:33
whoa, i just got B!%!^slapped by my own army book. Wow, coulda sworn they couldn't, but that's pretty awesome.

cold0
23-04-2007, 14:56
whoa, i just got B!%!^slapped by my own army book. Wow, coulda sworn they couldn't, but that's pretty awesome.

Don't worry, mistakes happen.

Anyway, chaos sorcerer with Daemonic Mount/Steed of Slaanesh is pretty neat.

Sanjuro
23-04-2007, 17:01
But... i believe the wizard of the force is not there for close combat, he is there to cast his spells.
With this train of thought, am i best of with the shamans?
This is my plan so far:

Exalted Chaos sorcerer
Lvl 4, MoS, Skull of Katam, chaos steed
369pts

Bray Shaman
MoS, Lvl 2, Spell familiar, Power stone
???pts

Bray Shaman
MoS, Lvl 2, Power stone, dispel scroll
???pts

Is this a good set up?


Ditch the skull and give the sorceror lord the Daemon sword - now you have a nice, fighty character as well. Great magic with one of the best lores in the game (if not the best).