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CryoMax
22-04-2007, 19:02
"Back in my day..." Heh, things were so much different. I've been playing this game for almost 20 years now. A good proportion of the people on this board and who play these days probably have never seen a copy of Rogue Trader in person (and fewer still who can spell "Rogue" properly ;) )

I was wondering what parts of the old systems (not just Rogue Trader) people miss, or that, if you told someone today about it, they would look at you funny, and think you were lying...

I mean gems like:

* Space Marines could be equipped with Shuriken Catapults.
* There was an official army list that had Humans, Squats, and Eldar together.
* You used to pay points for a random roll on an equipment list.
* Imperial Guard used to have Beastmen troops.
* Marines and Guard used to have access to Robots, and there were actually rules for "programming" the robots, which defined how they moved around the battlefield...

Personally, I really miss the Human Bombs from the Imperial Guard army lists... Troops you could decide to simply explode, like a guided grenade...

Anyone else have any favorite trivia around the "old stuff"?

...Paul

Acolyte of Bli'l'ab
22-04-2007, 19:06
Back in my day...Admech didnt even look like they were human at all back then...

Back in my day...their were Space Slaan, Jokaero and Zoats :P

chrome_ghoul
22-04-2007, 19:10
Ahh yes, I love olde fashioned wierdeness!

I loved the suggestions for terrain at the back of rogue trader, like lakes of honey produced by massive insects.

Different attacks for tentacles and claws on big gribbly things. IIRC the catachan devil had a bite , two big claws, a couple of small claws, and a tail.
There were different arcs for them too, you could attack people all around with a tentacle but only to your front with the claws.

Hexagonal bases too, I loved those things!

Revlid
22-04-2007, 19:10
* Imperial Guard used to have Beastmen troops.

Heh, they still do. Abhumans.

Coasty
22-04-2007, 19:19
(and fewer still who can spell "Rogue" properly ;) )




Ah, the space transvestitism of Rouge Trader, you mean?

I'm one of the ones who missed RT. It sounds like a blast, with factions being far more individual than they are in the new du- er, simplified rules.

Onisuzume
22-04-2007, 19:24
Squats, the randomness of orks, the shuricats being better than bolters and the insanely powerful genestealers(comparing stats that is).

RavenMorpheus
22-04-2007, 19:39
"Back in my day..." Heh, things were so much different. I've been playing this game for almost 20 years now. A good proportion of the people on this board and who play these days probably have never seen a copy of Rogue Trader in person (and fewer still who can spell "Rogue" properly ;) )

I was wondering what parts of the old systems (not just Rogue Trader) people miss, or that, if you told someone today about it, they would look at you funny, and think you were lying...

I mean gems like:

* Space Marines could be equipped with Shuriken Catapults.
* There was an official army list that had Humans, Squats, and Eldar together.
* You used to pay points for a random roll on an equipment list.
* Imperial Guard used to have Beastmen troops.
* Marines and Guard used to have access to Robots, and there were actually rules for "programming" the robots, which defined how they moved around the battlefield...

Personally, I really miss the Human Bombs from the Imperial Guard army lists... Troops you could decide to simply explode, like a guided grenade...

Anyone else have any favorite trivia around the "old stuff"?

...Paul

I really miss shuffling through the wargear cards from 2nd edition or the 12" dia. template (I think it was that big) SM Space Wolves Cyclone missile launcher and assualt cannon combo for Wolf guard in terminator armour. Oh and vortex grenades - very handy when your on the last turn and about to lose the game, might as well just tell your opponent you've got one so they can give up on turn 1 lol :D

And penal battalions - hilarious, miles better than the cannon fodder these days in the less complicated rules.

BigJon
22-04-2007, 19:43
Shock attack gunz, Looted anything. Gernades you can throw, vortex gernades and all the other gernade goodness. Human bombs, nothing like some IG guys going BOOM to make you stand up and take notice.

Space Marines with Eldar weapons. Still have a few of thoses.

BigJon

grg3d
22-04-2007, 19:50
Back in my Day...

1)Terrain and Planet Envoriment could be deadly to both armies "Brain Tree Anyone?"
2) You actually threw genarades :eek:
3) Rolling up avability of special wargear on a d100 chart

MegaPope
22-04-2007, 19:51
For me, it's the incredibly detailed backstory for all manner of obscure stuff, such as how the Commissariat reconciled things like Squat ancestor worship with the Imperial Cult, and how Genestealer Cults get to be established on Imperial worlds.

But, as ever, Rick 'Zoatibix'* Priestley walks off with my prize for the most missed aspect of Rogue Trader: the scenarios in the back of the book:

"Relations between the human and alien colonists of this frontier world have always been somewhat strained. Last week the humans awoke to find 'hairless apes eat Grox dung' sprayed on their compound wall. Now the humans are out for revenge. It so happens that the aliens have erected a statue commemorating their founding member. Capturing it would really put the aliens' backs up!"

"The mission to destroy an alien infested research station was going well, until Sergeant York strayed too close to the jungle and ended up as a Tyrannosaur's dinner. If only he hadn't been wearing the teleport homer, if only the ship's communicator wasn't out - if only they could find that !!?*! dinosuar before its digestive tract deposited the homer at some random point in the jungle. Are you sure all those aliens are dead? Didn't trooper Douglas say something about a green slimy thing with a big gun crawling into the bush?"

And my all time favourite...

"As Governor of a Hive World, you find it hard enough to keep order at the best of times. Things have gotten worse since some madman started a new religion based around the premise that a vast floating pudding would appear to make life better for everyone. The people have stopped working, even the military has been affected, and you can't rely on your own staff any more. Yesterday you caught you mother reading a pamphlet entitled 'The Pudding Is Coming - Ten Reasons Why You Should Believe'. Today, the prophet of this insane religion, the Rev. Jeronimo Kipling, is making a whistle-stop tour of the rundown city-bottom district of Tumbletown. You have positioned a special unit to attack and kill him. The troops are in civilian gear, as you intend blaming the whole thing on a rival religious group (such as the Anadentists or the Church of the Lucid Shirt Button)...

(Copyright R. Priestley and the GW design team, 1988-89)

Ah, Rogue Trader. As a wargame, damn near impossible to play. But as a sourcebook on the background, banality and insanity of the 41st Millenium (which wasn't always as grim and dark as it is now, and was better for it IMHO), priceless.

*'Zoatibix': n. singular/plural. A protein based woven biscuit-like foodstuff, fed three times daily to the creatures known as Zoats, a semi self-aware servitor race formerly associated with the Tyranids.

Zedric
22-04-2007, 20:05
Back in my day...

Orks, of all races, had an entire book devoted to background alone.

Acolyte of Bli'l'ab
22-04-2007, 20:30
Chaos seemed more actually Chaotic back then...

Arkzein
22-04-2007, 20:30
I always felt like I missed out on something special with Rogue Trader, only 12 years in the hobby here and at the time I would have been too young to understand it in any great depth anyway. Closest I had was a good few of the models kicking round our local club when I joined.

As for what I miss. Hard to define really, perhaps it's growing older 9That inner child slowly withering away eh? ;)) and the game losing it's sheen (having been there, done that, read that all before etc.) but for me it just seems the "life" has gone out of the game. I can't recall the results of too many battles, now or "then".... but the moments some of the "wacky" rules the game could throw up will remain ingrained in my memory. Such as Abaddon fighting, I think, Mephiston, knocking him back after hitting his displacement field and getting a vortex grenade in the face next turn, which prompty moved and ate the blood angel as well!

Nothing like that now, seems a lot of the RPG-ish elements have gone from the game with these stripped down rules, combination of toning down of characters and "hero-hammer" (I always loved the idea of the focus on your heroes and less so on the riff-raff, again rpg like) and the simplicity of it. No longer is there all there great random effects, all seems more clinical and cold. Perhaps the shift of the company somewhat as well into the more commerical. (May be percieved this as I was younger before, but WD certainly has gone down this route).

Was it longer and more complicated to play before? Sure, but in my view it was also a lot more fun, each battle seemed to tell a story rather than be just a dice rolling competition.

Hard to pin down in a word. Soul? Personality? Life? Heart? Just seems something gone, at least on the gaming side. Model and painting wise (which has always been a big part of it for me) things are much better, remember the very old Bloodthirster, Chaos Terminators or Chaos dreads from the late 80s for example? Urgh!

In any case I remain a 2nd Edition Fan, and look set to given GWs current direction in 40k seems to be heading even further down the streamlined route. Funnily enough not entirely set against that, in the current climate that seems to have bred competitive gaming and balance to be the holy grail it makes sense.

Crube
22-04-2007, 20:31
I miss the Orks

True humour, and some really cool models to represent some really diverse army lis entries.

Also the endless rolling on tables - just to pick your army

"you can have upto d6 of this troop choice..."

Bjorn Stormwolf
22-04-2007, 20:33
Back in my day...

To shoot at a vehicle you used a transparent acetate 'target' grid and aimed it over diagrams of the vehicles with individual areas (e.g gun, hull, ammo) marked and allocated an armour value. You rolled a dice to see where your shot hit and you could use your BS skill to bring it back on target.

Took hours but so much fun....

Don't get me onto the rules for Madboyz..... comedy genius.

keatsmeister
22-04-2007, 20:35
One-hit stab attacks with lightning claws...brutality at it's best :evilgrin:

KaldCB
22-04-2007, 21:51
Back in the day, when rhino rush was 10 emty rhinos driving over you models.

Thenmy
22-04-2007, 22:12
Gyro-stabilized mono-wheels!

Seriously, I miss Strategy Cards (bar Virus Attack) and drawing my Psychic Powers.

keatsmeister
22-04-2007, 23:43
Gyro-stabilized mono-wheels!

Seriously, I miss Strategy Cards (bar Virus Attack) and drawing my Psychic Powers.

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67367 (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67367)

Shameless plug! The final reply has the pdf download ready to go. Strategy cards were a little uneven at times, but fun! Enjoy

Azizza
22-04-2007, 23:43
I miss pretty much everything about second edition. The game had character back then. I know it wasn't perfect but every model meant something and was an individual. It wasn't just Group A running at group B.

Sadly it is getting harder and harder to continue to play 2nd Edition as they move further and further away from it.

Lothar bubonicus
22-04-2007, 23:56
I really miss shuffling through the wargear cards from 2nd edition or the 12" dia. template (I think it was that big)

Actually the largest Blast temlpate was the 3" template (6" in Diameter).

The thing I miss most is the effort that these guys put into Everything. Which I sometimes feel is lacking today.

RavenMorpheus
22-04-2007, 23:58
Actually the largest Blast temlpate was the 3" template (6" in Diameter).

The thing I miss most is the effort that these guys put into Everything. Which I sometimes feel is lacking today.

Oh yeah, knew it was a biggie anyway, I loved that, I used to turn up at a GW store with 10 of em to see the jaws drop.

A neutral shade of black.
23-04-2007, 00:34
Sadly it is getting harder and harder to continue to play 2nd Edition as they move further and further away from it.

Some French fans are busy updating the 2nd Ed. rulebook so that it's easier to use. They've also translated Rogue Trader and Waaagh! The Orks entirely from French to English. *has the resulting .pdfs on his hard drive*

RavenMorpheus
23-04-2007, 00:35
Some French fans are busy updating the 2nd Ed. rulebook so that it's easier to use. They've also translated Rogue Trader and Waaagh! The Orks entirely from French to English. *has the resulting .pdfs on his hard drive*

I thought GW said they'd keep it around as a 40k skirmish type of game?

machine_recovered_meat
23-04-2007, 00:58
I've said it before, I'm sure I'll say it again:

Flamer victims continuing to burn :evilgrin:

RavenMorpheus
23-04-2007, 01:02
Hell yeah, and they potentially ended up setting the rest of the army alight iirc Brilliant in guard armies.

Khorne warrior
23-04-2007, 01:04
Don't hate me for this, but I found the old games too odd and few generals would do so. The rules allowing ramming did not make sense to me as, who would sacrifice their best vehicle even if it did not have any weapons left.

Doom666
23-04-2007, 01:05
back in my day...

I was too busy painting houses to paint warhammer.

Master Bait
23-04-2007, 01:56
Don't hate me for this, but I found the old games too odd and few generals would do so. The rules allowing ramming did not make sense to me as, who would sacrifice their best vehicle even if it did not have any weapons left.

because you could mow through troops with little harm to your own vehicle.

or just make suicide charges VIVA LA RHINO! it was just a fun aspect of the game, and the idea of tank shock now is no where near as appealling

nanktank
23-04-2007, 02:28
The dreaded vortex grenade which for some reason would always scatter back onto your own army.

oneman
23-04-2007, 02:59
I too go ape**** when I see that 'rouge' thing but now I wander if they do it for the same reason I use 'interweb',just a means to rib a different generation.

I'll have to dig out my RT,been years since I last read it.I do know there's something I miss from Compendium,I think it was,where White Scars veterans had Refractor fields and,IIRC,power weapons.Seems to me more true to the way the Scars would fight.When it's too tight for bikes they get out the fields instead of the Terminator armour.

It would work with a new WS list.No(or very little TA) but vets take 5+ Inv. and power weapons and can DS.If the DA can take the last jet-bike why can't the WS,another First Founding chapter,have access to field technology?It would make them different and then I might actually start that WS army I promised myself all those years ago!

Now you've started something,I've got to go in some dark and dingy places to dig out all my books!:)

Ronin_eX
23-04-2007, 03:16
Back in my day... The Cyclone Missile Launcher was a true terror.

Back in my day... Terminators were feared by anything that wasn't a tank, and even then it would give them their breathing room.

Back in my day... Warp grenades made the game interesting and unpredictable (along with hallucinogen grenades :D).

Back in my day... Overwatch gave you something to do during your opponent's turn.

Back in my day... I played Warzone... oh, wrong thread. :p

the_crazy_russian
23-04-2007, 05:34
I was never around for 'the good old days' (20 years is only one year less than I've been alive!), but reading some of the posts of you Old Ones reminesce, I do wish that we still had some of these things.

Sekhmet
23-04-2007, 05:56
Back in my day... scarabs were toughness 8.

Matt Stone
23-04-2007, 06:22
Ah, to have such longbeards gathered together in one place...

I confess, RT was a handful. Second edition, for that matter, had some issues that could have used cleaning up. However, subsequent editions have generated just as many (if not more) "extra rules" (a long-berated fault of 2nd Ed.), and the game seems (not in the play I experience, but from what I read elsewhere) more about capturing table areas than it is about engaging the opponent's troops and destroying them...

Back in my day... Marines could arm entire squads with CCWs and power shields for the stacked saves in close combat.

Back in my day... You really had to steer your vehicles and plan your turns.

Back in my day... A WYSIWYG was some kind of D&D monster, not a hard and fast rule for miniatures (now where's my underarm deodorant land raider...?).

scratchbuilt
23-04-2007, 08:03
White Dwarf had whole army lists. And I actually read the thing from cover to cover, rather than just look at the models. (Was really half wargame half roleplay game back then.)

Lancaster
23-04-2007, 08:47
Back in my day... you rolled 2D6 to fall back
Back in my day... you could roll 3D6 to sweeping advance if you had a jump pack
Back in my day... Genestealers had Razor claws, not Rending claws
Back in my day... you couldn't move and fire an Ordinance weapon

Jellicoe
23-04-2007, 09:01
back in my day RT was responsible for single handedly encouraging smelly teenage boys to use deodorant sticks so they could build anti grav tanks (still have a couple somewhere)

RT allowed you to build your own vehicles - at one end of the scale I had a converted Saladin armoured car as a command vehicle - at the other my friend had a converted Action man scale Scorpion tank

happy days if somewhat chaotic

xibo
23-04-2007, 09:29
...multimeltas penetrated vehicles regularily ( or in other words: most times )
...targeters relieved aiming
...terminators survived plasguns
...lasguns were (IMO) equally good as bolters
...swords could parry
...al'rahim caused terror
...land raiders ( and other heavy vehicles ) were imune to assault cannons
...witches used to be more threatening than some fool with a heavy weapon
...there were no space khemri or blueskins

Stormsender
23-04-2007, 09:32
My all time favorites are Hallucinigen grenades and thier various effects, roll a d10 and watch as officer John begins to think that his unit is out to get him but he's not going to let that happen, OH NO, he's going to get them first, He's going to get them ALL Muhahahahahah.
Or maybe he is just so over-come with a depression he just doesn't see the point and sets his weapon down to reflect on were his life went so wrong.

It just wasn't the random effects as reading the fluff about them as they unfolded, created an atmosphere and drew the players in. I think this is whats missing now in 40k the random and fluff effects, that were frankly hallarious.

I also liked how you rolled random hit locations on some vehicals like speeders if you hit the pilot the speeder flys out of control and in random directions.

keatsmeister
23-04-2007, 09:58
Back in my day... you couldn't move and fire an Ordinance weapon

Or the days before that... when you could fire ordnance on the move, if you wanted to risk your vehicle flipping


I also liked how you rolled random hit locations on some vehicals like speeders if you hit the pilot the speeder flys out of control and in random directions.

The pure look of disgust when your opponent rolled for hit location on your Russ and hit the front of your turret :evilgrin:

Lion El Jason
23-04-2007, 11:37
I kinda liked the way suppliments were back then...

No codexes, Orks had 3 books (1 of which had no rules whatsoever), Chaos had 2 books but they were also for WFB and WFRP, the other armies had 2 books between all of them!

The best thing about RT?
The vehicle manual... the clear plastic targeting template and sillhouette datafaxes.

Smokedog
23-04-2007, 12:21
Pains me when I see stuff like this after the hours I spent creating a 2nd ed version of 40K using existing codexes... nobody has tested them.. :( *Sobs uncontrolably*


(see sig if you are interested)

TeddyC
23-04-2007, 12:38
- Halucenagenic (SP?) grenades
- Vortex Grenades
- Strategy/Wargear Cards
- Decent amount of background in Codexes
- Deamon Princes were SOLID! (18 wounds... and any wound caused regenerated one he had lost!, Rod of Khorne Etc)
- Enough scope to make characterful force and it still be gameworthy... basically not many 'carbon copy' lists
- Terminators saving on 2D6
- Vehicle cards

the list goes on... pains me to think it ill never go back to being like that... sadly fantasy is going the same way it seems

McBain
23-04-2007, 12:52
assassins with polymorph and a virus grenade appearing in the midst of the guard or orc army.... until they banned it...

Or Ragnar Blackmane charging a carnifex and rolling dbl 6 for his leadership and having a heart attack then his bodguard squad running away off the board..

Spending time phtocopying all the vehicle cards

cutting out wargear cards from the codexs

opening the shrink wrap on the big boxes, to look over all the wonderful sprues and books...

ahh when i was young

cinera
23-04-2007, 12:56
Wait wait wait wait!!!!

your telling me.... that you could actually... throw grenades?! :eek:


(also im intriqued as to what the mighty vortex grenade is)

McBain
23-04-2007, 12:58
the mighty vortex was if i recall correctly 50 points single use that deployed a template accross the table hammering anything it touched.....

or entire armies of wolf guard in termie armour, and the guy at your local club that always took the cyclone + assualt cannon on the same model before it was banned .

Arkzein
23-04-2007, 13:13
Aye, just one per force for 50 points. It sucked anything it touched into the warp with no save whatsoever (Including buildings, terrain and such IIRC) and after it was tossed had a random movement so you always gave it a wide berth if you could. Smaller template size 1" or 1.5" radius wasn't it? Similar effects like guys on fire running around afterwards or smoke screens drifting across the battlfield, that random element.

Good times. :)

McBain
23-04-2007, 13:21
yeah and it blocked line of site too, i used to love the wargear cards so many cool things, digi weapons, under slung 'nade launchers, polymorphine and so many wonderful things...

TeddyC
23-04-2007, 13:24
Yea it had its own template. There wasnt 'Small' and 'Large.... there was about 6 different templates.. and large was LARGE. 3 different flamer templates. The Heavy Stubb gun template was it? that was about 3 or 4 linked together to represnt a burst of fire.

Vortex grenades were amazing. Sneak up on someone and BANG or "scream of the warp" they were gone... sucked in.. no chance of a save... unless you had dodge type roll.

Almost forgot... follow up moves of 2".. and Abbadon the despoiler... every time he hit in close combat he wounded... except unmodifiable saves...

Thats another thing i miss.... unmodifiable saves... now days something with AP 3 has the same chance as piercing armour as a AP 6 weapon on a 2+ save...WHAT?? i dont get it...

McBain
23-04-2007, 13:25
the template you linked togeteher was for the thudd gun you needed to go and buy your won paper fasters to make it work.. and the dream that was sustained fire dice...

galadriad
23-04-2007, 13:41
When bikes were treated as vehicles: if your bike was hit it could be destroyed, en the biker had to walk from then on. (or the bike could explode, killing the rider: happened to my ravenwing master....).
Or when assault phases lasted hours. Every model in combat was done seperately....
Eldar dark reapers hitting everything on 2+
Needing 4 different dice for armour penetration: a lasscannon could do STR. 8 + 1d6 + 1d4 + 1d20 (or something).

It was fun, second edition, but man.... it was imbalanced.
Gimme fourth edetion rules/balance anytime, but bring back second edition fluff.

McBain
23-04-2007, 14:09
the mountains of dice you had to own for a simple thing was insane i have a box full of sust fire ones and d6 and all the other you had to own, remember the vechile turning template also was comical...

GentlemanLoser
23-04-2007, 14:19
I can't remember the name of them, but the humans either descended from, or part of the Emperor.

The guys you could get 'powers' for. ;)

Psychic Points.

Force Rods able to hold more Psychic points.

Temporal Distortion (and the large list of Psychic Powers open to all. Jinx!)

Edit:

Blinding attacking troops with your saving thorws (Reflector Shields versus troops without flash dampeners).

Killing whole armiers with Toxi Gas as your marines has sealed systems and ork hordes didn't. >;)

Easy E
23-04-2007, 14:47
Back in my day...

Orks, of all races, had an entire book devoted to background alone.

3 actually:
Waaaagh! the Orks
'Ere we go
Freebooterz

Meanwhile Chaos only had 2. That's propa'!

I really miss these units:
Commissar training squads from WH40K Compendium.
Smoke grenades
Anti-plant missiles
Squats
Imperial Beastmen

Oh, and let's keep 2nd edition out of this; wargear cards-hmmph.

TeddyC
23-04-2007, 14:54
that was it... a thudd gun...

oh to be 9 again ::)

Lion El Jason
23-04-2007, 15:22
the mighty vortex was if i recall correctly 50 points single use that deployed a template accross the table hammering anything it touched.....



Aye, just one per force for 50 points. It sucked anything it touched into the warp with no save whatsoever (Including buildings, terrain and such IIRC) and after it was tossed had a random movement so you always gave it a wide berth if you could. Smaller template size 1" or 1.5" radius wasn't it? Similar effects like guys on fire running around afterwards or smoke screens drifting across the battlfield, that random element.

The vortex grenade was a "Rare" wargear card so you could have two in an army. It was what we now have as a small 3" (1.5" Radius as it was then) template and anything touched was destroyed. Vehicles were auto penetrated.
I have seen a swooping hawk exarch with two of them and fast shot in 2nd ed to get 2 templates on enemy characters on turn 1.

The version that moved was the inquisition psychic power "Vortex" that moved 3D6 and had the same effect.
Both vortices had a chart to roll on every turn and the template could move, shrink grow or disappear.


or entire armies of wolf guard in termie armour, and the guy at your local club that always took the cyclone + assualt cannon on the same model before it was banned .

This was never "Banned" it was actually never legal. A lot of people did it due to poor reading of the rules and eventually someone put it inn a WD article saying it was clearly stupid..

machine_recovered_meat
23-04-2007, 16:12
The vortex grenade was a "Rare" wargear card so you could have two in an army. It was what we now have as a small 3" (1.5" Radius as it was then) template and anything touched was destroyed. Vehicles were auto penetrated.
I have seen a swooping hawk exarch with two of them and fast shot in 2nd ed to get 2 templates on enemy characters on turn 1.

The version that moved was the inquisition psychic power "Vortex" that moved 3D6 and had the same effect.
Both vortices had a chart to roll on every turn and the template could move, shrink grow or disappear.

Ahh, but that was 2nd Ed, along with the 50 point price tag :)

Didn't the weird boy have an EadButt power? I also recall a giant green foot being involved :D

Rogue Trader had vortex grenades & missiles, the effects of which moved randomly each turn after firing.
The grenade was available from a roll on the grenades table in each army list entry [characters mostly]- something like a 2-5% chance of getting one [some of the grenades came with enough to use one every turn, others like vortex, psykout and the also nasty rad were 1 only].

grg3d
23-04-2007, 17:02
The vortex gernade was like a black hole you could throw it was great until... you got near some one with a vortex detanator it was the counter ballance weapon/wargear it set it off "before" you threw it thus sucking you in.

Used to have a Psychic phase all on its own been so long I allmost forgot

Split fire, in heavy weapon could fire at the closest tank while the rest of the squad fired at something else

Snotteef
23-04-2007, 17:09
I miss:

-Waaagh! Da Orks
-Squat Thunderers - Heavy Bolter Squad of Doom!
-Harlequins as an army
-Imperial Guard armies that could NOT be legally constructed at under 1000 pts.
-Rad Grenades
-Following Fire (You could potentially fire until everything within 2" of the last target was DEAD, DEAD, DEAD!)
-The kick ass, wierdo art in Rogue Trader; before everything followed specific templates
-Completely psychotic marines (there was NOTHING noble about them in the Rogue Trader rule book).
-The Emporer as less than a god
-750 point land raiders!
- Scattering templates

*tear* Those were the days.

Isambard
23-04-2007, 17:41
I really miss shuffling through the wargear cards from 2nd edition or the 12" dia. template (I think it was that big) SM Space Wolves Cyclone missile launcher and assualt cannon combo for Wolf guard in terminator armour.

6" diameter, .5" per rocket used.

Back in my day you could have a Commisar with a grav-stablised D-Cannon.

Snotteef
23-04-2007, 18:02
I just flipped through my Rogue Trader and came up with a few more gems:

-Templates would hit or scatter based on the size of the template and then, you would roll to hit the models underneath the template using the firer's BS. Funny
-Those cool, mildly disturbing quotes all throughout the book.
-The sheer versatility of the rules-set. You could do anything. Fire into combat, fire at chargers, hide, anything. They were good for playing with a handful of models or an entire army (if you had all day:p ).

fenrisbrit
23-04-2007, 18:19
Vehicles running around out of control - especially Eldar jetbikes without riders, was my favorite. (2nd Edn I think)

Commissar Rowe
23-04-2007, 18:45
Psychic Duels that could last over half an hour... PER TURN

Arkzein
23-04-2007, 19:20
Ah what was that orky one, Hand/Foot of Mork/Gork? Hilarious.

Have to agree with the above though, character was the word I was looking for. Rules for doing most anything, though at the expense of balance. Did feel more like an RPG with more focus on rules just framing the world and playing out a story. Really do have "just" a wargame now, especially with the decline of specialist games. Can we stick Blood Bowl, Space Hulk and Hero Quest into the "good old days" grouping. (Though BB is comparatively recent since the big changes in 3rd ed and still has a good following)

lanrak
23-04-2007, 20:28
Hi all.
I think old GW were brilliant story tellers.They let you into fantastic worlds and escape from reality.In short they were narative driven games,full of character and ecentricity.
All the games GW made up to the mid 90s were probably best described as 3D RPG.The games were about YOU playing out the most interesting and FUN stories.
It didnt matter how the games ended ,it was sheer fun just playing the games.
If GW are trying to loose thier only real talent in games design.They are now trying to make 40k a 'wargame suitable for ballanced competative play.'
This is somthing they are unable to do to any reasonable degree of sucess.(Because of existing development methods and focus of the buisness, etc.)And as there are far to many game systems far better at this, than GW could ever achive .
I find the new direction that GW is taking with 40k is rather a self defeating process.

I miss the narrative of the 40k universe being translated into the table top game of 40k.

But that may just be me...

TTFN
Lanrak.

Coasty
23-04-2007, 20:55
It isn't just you. I may have missed out on RT, but I still remember when 40K was about more than just two lots of people meeting up in a field and hitting each other for a while.:(

Art Is Resistance
23-04-2007, 21:06
Cor, this brings back memories...

- A game that took nearly 2 hours to set up, being ground to a halt by a grey knights player using the 'stasis' psychic power on his army, after throwing vortex grenades at my army.

Harlequins being seriously nasty gits - using any and all bits of technology until they fell apart!

Snotteef
23-04-2007, 21:25
Here's one

-How about Space Marines who were toughness 3 and had a 4+ save (with save modifiers!).

Against most basic weapons, these low toughness marines had only a 5+ save!:eek:

I don't really miss that, I just think it's interesting how much things have changed.

CryoMax
23-04-2007, 22:06
I don't really miss that, I just think it's interesting how much things have changed.

I'm in total agreement. With everyone. Well, most everyone. ;)

I fired off the first musing yesterday, just before I went out for the day, and I was so beat when I got home, I didn't turn my computer on until this morning. I was pleasantly surprised to see how many people chimed in with their stories. Faaantastic. :D

Snotteef's quote, though, really sums up a lot.

I actually quite like the new rules system, for how well they work, in comparison. I like some of the new background, but I do miss a lot of the old background. The sad part is, it seems like it wouldn't really take much to bring some of that "old flavor" back to the new rules. I wonder sometimes if there isn't some thought around that, too, what with the recent (last year or so) movement around "Counts As" lists. Like perhaps GW's started realizing they've drained the personality out of the system, and now they're trying to encourage people to be creative and add some non-mechanical depth to their games.

I've been debating trying to put together an army based on some of the old lists, like a Rogue Trader army (which had marines & guard, effectively), or a pirate army (which had guard & squats & eldar together)... using the "Counts As" model for doing things. The RT army would probably be fairly easy to do with Daemonhunters or Witchhunters; the pirate army I'm having some trouble figuring out, because it is so radically different (not only are the forces basically guard & eldar, but the vehicles available included land raiders and land speeders...)

I just hope the upcoming Ork Codex brings back a little of that RT pizazz... :)

...Paul

PS> My favorite quote from the flavor text in RT was "Pain is illusion of the senses, despair is an illusion of the mind." (IIRC)...

lanrak
23-04-2007, 22:14
Hi Snotteef.
Yeah, SM used to be just as challenging to play as all other armies.
Not the 'nobrainer newb' choice they now are.

At some point SMs seem to have taken the position as the 'army to beat', but GW dont like thier favorite 'company image' army being beaten.
This is what drives the numerous updates IMO.
Race A has a hard time vs SMs.Devs' tweek race A bit.Race A starts beating SMs a bit too often ,then the devs tweek SMs to 'restore thier perception of game ballance.'

I can remeber when 40k used the 'bog standard human trooper' to do comparisons to.(Like WH still does.)
I wonder how the PV in WH might alter if all units were compared to Chaos Chosen?

Just a thought...

TTFN
Lanrak.

Lord Humungus
23-04-2007, 22:20
I started playing in the early days of 2nd edition. Here are some of my memories:

Deathspinners tested against the victim's initiative rather than toughness and used a template 50% longer than the current flamer template.

Each unit had a Movement score.

Shuriken catapults were better than storm bolters.

Ork vehicles were best when driven into a wall next to an enemy unit -- the resulting explosion could kill everything within 6".

An Ork Battlewagon carrying a 20 model strong dethskul unit shoots down an Eldar Jetbike which careens out of control impacting the wagon, which explodes killing the dethskuls and several other nearby units.

Throwing a virus grenade into a pile of chaos cultists, killing all 300 (after nearly 40 minutes of rolling and a crowd cheering for the one guy who nearly survived 20 exposures to the virus only to be felled by the last possible exposure).

A carnifex being reasonably expected to survive a turn of your enemy pouring all his firepower into it.

Sticking a brightlance up the tailpipe of a leman russ in hand to hand combat!

Dark Reapers overwatch gatting a flying bloodthirster and overkilling by 15 wounds!

An Avatar and an Eldar Dreadnought (now the Wraithlord) charging up to a carnifex in CC. Then a hive tyrant barrages them with a venom cannon (which used the thudd template), managing to snake the template around so it hit only the avatar and dread, causing a 30 minute argument of whether the venom cannon could actually hurt the Avatar.


There's plenty of other wacky memories, but you get the idea. The only real shame was that the rules, while fun, were so badly written you were guaranteed to spend half an hour arguing each game.

Ronin_eX
23-04-2007, 22:23
That's a good point, I remember reading my second edition rulebook when I was a wee one and thinking "wow do space marine troops have nice stats, I'm so playing them" not "ooh look how positively standard those space marine stats look". They should balance things around the guard profile as it just seems the right thing to do. I miss when it really felt like the guard were the downtroden defenders of humanity and the space marines were an ultra-elite force. The new DA codex seemed to help this feel a bit but the sheer number of marine players now kind of ruins the illusion.

yabbadabba
23-04-2007, 22:54
2nd Ed

guy turns up to a game with a beautifully converted cult of speed including things like the lungbursta ... ... sigh it was fantastic to look at ... ...

Untill it ran into 2 full squads of warp spiders with an exarch with a rad grenade. Those that weren't neatly diced got barbecued over a couple of turns :)

The amount of fun you could have with grenades, or a Land Speeder with a vortex detonator.

Two things to add to this post, as people are being nostalgic. First was 2nd Ed did take a long time to play, with the three main bits being 40K, 40K Psychic and 40K Character mash up. RT took me longer to roll up my army than it did to play ;) .

The only thing stopping people doing the same stuff with this Ed is they are too lazy to sit down with some mates and work it out. Tournaments are nice but home and club is where the hobby truly is at. If you want it in your game, just put it in, then work out the issues.

Maximus_Prime
23-04-2007, 23:11
My favorite quote from the flavor text in RT was "Fear is illusion of the senses, despair is an illusion of the mind." (IIRC)...

I think it's "Pain is an illusion of the body, Despair an illusion of the mind"
I never got to play RT/2nd ed, but god does it sound alot more fun than what we have today

Hollopoint
23-04-2007, 23:29
2nd did have alot going for it but you have to remember that alot of the views seen here are heavily affected by the good ol' rose tinted glasses. The game took like 2 hours to set up and you had to roll soooooo many dice. D6, D10, D12! and alot of them at the same time. I liked the wargear cards and the ridiculous magic phases that seemed to take an age. One thing that was common was the fact that 90 percent of the games me and my friends started were never finished as you literaly needed all day for a game. I remember waking up at 8 on a Sunday morning haveing breakfast with friends while setting up the table and armies plying a turn or two. Stopping for lunch, coming back and playing another two turns with mass combat that literally had 30, 40 or even 50 dice a side being rolled, MULTIPLE TIMES. Having dinner, loosing track of what turn it was, what we were meant to be doing, getting sidetracked and the game just dieing, then doing it all again the following weeked. :D

Indrid Khold
23-04-2007, 23:35
I started playing in 2nd Edition and the thing that I truly miss, indeed the thing that initially attracted 12 year-old mind to the game, was all the different wargear. The 2nd Edition starter set had a whole *******' book filled with each and every different weapon, complete with a big description of just where it was and who used it and what different configurations they were, and there was even usually a sweet picture.

All that cool detail appeared even more in the codices, so that when I read through the Eldar rules and read all these crazy guns and artillery they had and saw just what crazy ***** it did in the game, I really BELIEVED they were an ancient and powerful race. Then I'd read the Impirial Guard codex and see how brilliantly simple and totally brutal their weaponry was and I saw what kind of a beast the Imperial military was. These guys took two dangerous-ass gunns and just nailed them together for extra alien killin'. Then you read the space marine codex and hear about their elegantly destructive bolters and their beautiful ancient power swords and the bizarre servitor-operated spider guns and such (and it made total sense that these guys would logically need servitor support, but now the SMs have been so mythologized that to even think they might need support for their thousand men is heresy).

And the same went for armor, so that even if an Eldar Guardian's armor wasn't worth much I was still impressed with it conceptually, and I saw how the Imperial flak jacket was actually useful for the sort of work they do the 95% of the time they weren't unfortunate enough to be fighting ancient chaos warriors or tyranid monsters or Eldar monofilament guns.


It made the whole 40k galaxy a very real place to me, and with the painful streamlining of the rules you don't get nearly as much of this. It has been made up for in some part by all the character driven fluff we get in the Black Library books nowadays (the Horus Heresy books in particular, they have cool 40K stuff and they're actually pretty damn readable to boot!), but nonetheless I miss the old weapon stuff.

*sigh*

oh well

Grimbad
24-04-2007, 00:20
Back in my day...
Don't get me onto the rules for Madboyz..... comedy genius.

I agree, even though I never saw the originals, I use modern feral madboyz every game. I loved bashing my head on the wall when the ONLY TIME my pigdok EVER succesfully fed them steriods they ran off the table gibbering like babboons on the first turn.

Master Bait
24-04-2007, 00:23
Yea it had its own template. There wasnt 'Small' and 'Large.... there was about 6 different templates.. and large was LARGE. 3 different flamer templates. The Heavy Stubb gun template was it? that was about 3 or 4 linked together to represnt a burst of fire.

That was the Thudd gun, artillery for the Space Marines , Squats and Imp Guard, but never made it into the game once codexes were released, tso the tyranid Venom cannon became the only weapon to use the template.

and the vortex grenade template WAS essentially a 1.5" template, Dark Millenium just supplied its own special templates for them as markers, as the vortices would spend at least a couple of turns drifting around chewing through stuff.

ah, remember when shotguns used the 1" template? :)

and hellfire rounds shattered on impact with a chance of spraying on surrounding chaps

multimeltas had a 2" blast template.

i regret never using a cyclone missle launcher and unleashing a 6" radius str 8 blast. dang

Cornelius
24-04-2007, 00:41
I think it's "Pain is an illusion of the body, Despair an illusion of the mind"


"Pain is an illusion of the senses, despair an illusion of the mind". Pretty damn sure.

Lord Humungus
24-04-2007, 03:32
I think it's "Pain is an illusion of the body, Despair an illusion of the mind"
I never got to play RT/2nd ed, but god does it sound alot more fun than what we have today

It certainly had its moments, but it also had serious problems. It's not that the rules were so complex, but that they were so badly written and sometimes self-contradictory. Two days of proofreading for each of their books would have solved all the problems. I think that they've improved their writing, if only somewhat. They are still unnecessarily ambiguous in many parts of the rules.

Additionally, a lot of things in the lists were insanely broken. I remember several times when people would have to refuse to play someone because they made a completely stupid list. A friend of mine found Pulsa Rokkits to be a very effective selection for the orks, so one time he made a list with 30 of them -- enough to immobilize my entire army for at least 2 or 3 turns in a row. There's nothing these days as outrightly unbalanced.

All in all, I think 4th edition is quite good ruleswise. Almost all of the things that have been streamlined are better for it. It would be cool, though, if people would come together to make a semi-official add-on that brings back the things that were cool about 2nd edition. I'm thinking of something along the lines of house rules, but with the benefit of testing.

CommisarMolotov
24-04-2007, 03:41
Quite true, Humungus. There are an awful lot of things I miss...Genestealer Cults. Squats. Stormboyz of Khorne...

But the one thing I'd really like to see brought back is the good old "Overwatch" rule.

SON OF LION
24-04-2007, 03:58
I miss pop-up attacks from landspeeders.

And terminators aren't as tough as they used to be.

I also loved the virus outbreak card and GW's subsequent apology for it. Classic.:D

Regimental
24-04-2007, 04:31
@Humungus

Whose stopping us from starting a group and doing just that?

@Molotov

We use overwatch as follows...

Friendly unit may give up their movement, shooting and assault phase in order to shoot at an enemy model that moves during the enemies assault phase. If a unit is assaulted while on Overwatch, they still get their normal number of attacks against the enemy unit that is assaulting them as long as the assaulting unit was the unit that they used their overwatch on, otherwise the friendly unit gets a maximum of 1 attack per model.

Not quite the same but it works and its one of those do I or don't I. We played with a few other options including the "Give up your turn to fire at the enemy when they move, and then allow units that are being charged by a unit that is greater than 4 inches away to fire as well", but then nobody moved :) This variant worked well, and it forced people to think, do I fire during shooting, or cover a unit and hope for the best.


On the lines of the old games, I miss the Squats. Still have 36 on sprue. Can't bring myself to sell them or build them. The list was broken and can be done by guard, marines and Inquisiter, but I miss my stunties.

And Hop Splat field guns :)

GentlemanLoser
24-04-2007, 09:14
LoL! This thread got me hunting for my old RT book. Can't find it, no idea where it's gone to now! >_<

Who were the guy descended (or part of?) the Emperor, who could get 'good' choas powers?

sigur
24-04-2007, 11:29
I think you're talking about the Sensei.

@Lord Humungus: I'm not sure if it's easy to implement house rules which are similar to certain 2nd edition things into 4th edition which is a very simple and inflexible ruleset. But best of luck for your project.;)

By the way, I'm a bit worried about Commissar von Toussaint not having shown up yet...

GentlemanLoser
24-04-2007, 11:30
Sensei! That was it! :D

Thanks! That had been niggling in the back of my mind for days! ;)

I wonder if we'll ever see a reappearance of them. ;)

sigur
24-04-2007, 11:39
Personally, I hope they won't. They are just a bit too much "superhero" in a universe that's already bursting because of being so stuffed with superhuman supermen (that's what people call tautology, isn't it?). Space Marines more or less took over the Senseis' place.

Nightrunner
24-04-2007, 11:57
Man, 2nd ed! I started collecting just after it came out, and I think the previous comments really ring true in that it was more of a tabletop RPG than a battlefield wargame - I always found my basic troops like my Blood claws were hugging cover all the way across the board whilst everyone else sat there on overwatch due to the plethora of Eldar skimmers performing pop-up attacks.

Now, that is something that I missed!

I LOVED the strategy cards; my friends and I have some house rules for using them in 4th ed, adjusted appropriately for the current ruleset; we use one per part of 1000pts and they are very fun and very characterful.

I loved the old psychic power system; the fact that you could build such big duels and rivalries between opposing characters! Creating a gate to send troops flying through, saving that daemonic attack card to counter your opponent's next move - genius!

I will also never forget just how AMAZING warpspiders were against anything (thank you, nerf gun!!!!!).

My personal favourite moment was the time when I had Ragnar Blackmane and Njal Stormcaller killed in my first turn by a crashing, exploding landspeeder, before going on to win the game with my Land Raider of 2nd ed doom! Or when my friend used a plasma grenade 2" away from my troops that went supernova or whatever it was, killing all my blood claws and his exarch - with my wolf lord only being saved by a "look out sir, Aaargh!" strategy card.

Genius, bloody genius!

Can I just say, I think that one good thing about 2nd ed is that there were no "Super killer" lists. Sure, you could get cheese armies of doom - a lot of people these days are out to create the uber list, which is not what 2nd ed was about - it was about enjoying the 40k universe and having fun, and if you lost it really was down to luck, not the necron army of resurection doom

or the annoying tau battlesuit ploy.

Or the las-plas, 6-man marine Chapter that has infected the entire universe. :wtf:

Malefactor
24-04-2007, 15:17
Carnifex having toughness 8, 10 wounds, a 2+ save on 2D6 and the ability to regenerate the lost wounds on a 4+.

That's what i used to love the most.

sukigod
24-04-2007, 18:10
Just a couple things off the top of my head...

Driving my bikes over an entire backline of IG troops
Strategy Cards
Pop-up Shokka Attack guns
Overwatch
Datafaxes
Snotlings! 3 Wound living shields.
Thudd Guns
Sustained Fire Dice
Ork models falling off a vehicle model, and dying!

Lord Humungus
25-04-2007, 00:25
Ork models falling off a vehicle model, and dying!

I almost forgot about that! It was awesome that you could transport as many orks on a battlewaggon as you could physically fit on the model. That led to some pretty entertaining conversions.

bigred
25-04-2007, 02:24
Eldar Dreadnoughts had a living crewmember, Imperial Guard Commissars riding Jetbikes could shoot down fleeing Imperial Beastmen, and you had to cut out logic cards and construct the "AI Program" your Imperial Robots would then follow during the entire game without any more player decision making for them....


Ahh the glorious past.....

FarseerUshanti
25-04-2007, 03:28
There was some stuff i loved about 2nd edition, and other tings i hated about it. The things i lvoed such as vortex grenades were some of the best. I continue to hope that GW release a book like Cities of Death that has weird and exciting rules like vortex grenades and ramming in it.

WorLord
25-04-2007, 04:37
One thing I do NOT miss is the sustained fire dice...those things were cursed whenever I used them - especially anything that had only one die (storm bolters). Nothing like moving terminators into position and rolling jams for most of the squad's firing.

Remember the special rules (2nd ed space marines codex)for SM dreadnought weapons? TL lascannons that let you modify hit location rolls, multimeltas that could fire as a heavy flamer (w/ the big flamer template), msl launchers that fired salvo shots...:D

MrGarm13
25-04-2007, 04:44
As a 4th edition player, it seems like I missed out on some fun times way back when.

2nd edition was out when I was in 4th grade and I only went to the store for Pokemon cards. Times sure have changed.

Dribble Joy
25-04-2007, 05:00
The Ork psychic power 'Brain Bursta'. Roll under your toughness or your head explodes, killing you with no save whatsoever.

Twaun007
25-04-2007, 08:10
I just miss the detail that was put into the game. Plus, every mini in 2nd edition had its own personality. Back then the game had passion and character. Today it seems that the game is just about rolling dice. Hopefully someday GW can realize what they had and bring back some of the old flavor of the game.

Arkzein
25-04-2007, 11:05
Have to agree, if next after Apocalypse with it's large battles (and one would assume even more streamlined rules) they made something for skirmishes, about half the size as now (2nd Ed points were almost double anyway) with a lot of the old more in depth rules I recon they'd make a killing off a lot of the increasingly disillusioned Vets. At least I for one would likely play it almost exclusively if done well. (Easily done as well, just cut and paste a lot of the old rules).

Didn't they say they were going to keep 2nd around for skirmishes when 3rd arrived?

Good old sustainted fire dice and 3+ on 2D6 terminators though. There was some fun. Take a lascanon to the chest and still have a good chance on 9+. :D Terminators feel like paper now.

UltimateNagash
25-04-2007, 17:26
Vortex Grenades!
:D
Actually, I never played it. I joined in third, but I got my friends old Rogue Trader and Chapter Approved books of first edition 40K, and some 3rd ed Fantasy stuff...

Snotteef
25-04-2007, 22:34
I hated sustained fire dice. Hard to keep track of (Guardians had to fire one at a time to keep track of jams) and they replaced one of the 3's with the jam symbol instead of a 1. It went 1,1,2,2,3,Jam! Jam,1,2,2,3,3 might have been worth it, but not the way they were.

This thread has created such a strong sense of nostalgia, that I am trying to put together a Marine army using (almost) exclusively RT era minis. I already have some of the RT plastics, with more on the way. I'm quite excited! I'm not sure if I should pay homage to RT by playing Crimson Fists or by creating my own chapter, though.

KITS AND BITS
26-04-2007, 00:08
i miss space marine and IG jet bikes ,i miss mole mortars ,i miss making a transport from a slither zoid and scratch building a bane blade from plasticard and balsa wood .i miss rhinos comming in boxes of three and land raiders in boxes of two .
i miss buying a full 10 man metal squad of marines in a very hard plastic blister pack with a slide off back , which you could then reuse to store the models after the game .
i miss polystyrene inserts in the box .
i miss buying citadel paint sets in 9s,they came with a blue plastic tray that you could store your paints in and use as a mixing palete and a brush rack .
i miss the softness of lead models

but most of all i miss playing space hulk ,i want my space hulk back and i want plastic board sections !

TheWarSmith
26-04-2007, 00:20
back in my day, 20 guardsman cost $20.

Chainsworded Codpiece
26-04-2007, 00:29
I miss...
...Gary Morley's art for the original retool of VDR in White Dwarf #(102?), his illustrations in the Realm of Chaos Books, and the wierd chiarascouro (sp?) effect he used.

...Russ Nicholson's work in the RT-era Spacer'ino supplements in WD and the First Book of the Astronomican, circa late '87, IIRC.

...Marines having bizarre or just plain antisocial commentary daubed at random on their armor and weapons, a sure sign that the Astartes of yesteryear didn't take the whole "grim monk-like knight of Humanity" thing as seriously as propaganda claimed.

...Hoverboards. Hoverboards for everyone. Including Thrash-Metal Space-Dwarves.

...when the description of the Eldar basically made it that, any Eldar that strayed from the Craftworld basically WAS a Dark Eldar in terms of their general behavior and outlook, if not their appearance.

...Random charts giving weapons assignations according to percentile spread, making it that occasionally, you got a Marine carrying around a Needle-rifle or an Autogun. Also, in RT the Imperium used a cheap knockoff of the (stolen) Eldar Shuriken Catapult, so sometimes humans had those, too.

...a big second and third for the Genestealer Cult.

Duhgame
26-04-2007, 00:51
Several people I know (myself included) wish we had a copy of the old rules so that we could create house rules that utilized some of the crazy old stuff (we would adjust and format as needed). We could just make up our own rules, but we would like to have a basis on (for example) how a commander can topple a tower or vehicles that can ram each other. Anyone know where to get a 2nd edition copy?

dblaz3r
26-04-2007, 01:04
ebay has everything you`d want.

keatsmeister
26-04-2007, 01:35
One thing I do NOT miss is the sustained fire dice...those things were cursed whenever I used them - especially anything that had only one die (storm bolters). Nothing like moving terminators into position and rolling jams for most of the squad's firing.

Did you ever use or come up against the Chimera variants under 2nd ed, using the Citadel Journal article rules? Chimerax with two, twin-linked autocannons, the Chimedon with a Battle Cannon, and the Chimerro with unlimited, twin-linked Hunter-Killer Missiles. Used the first two, both to comic effect. Sustained fire, jams every turn on the Chimerax. The Chimedon rolling that classic Hit and Misfire combo on the artillery dice (those were a smegger s well...)

Snotteef
26-04-2007, 19:18
May this thread never die! I love it. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a proponent for tossing aside 4th edtion in favor of earlier editions, but I love the nostalgia.

I miss Orks that HATED everyone!

I miss the incredible diversity in all the armies in RT

Ardathair
27-04-2007, 06:18
Space Marines with KIL! KIL! KIL! carved into their armor.

Mutation table.

Stasis grenades.

Syn-Skin, primarily used by assassins but available to others.

Power boards. (Hover skateboards, only used by the insane in combat.)

Displacer fields. When the field saves you, you teleport d6" in a random direction.

A stat called "COOL".

Inteligence determining what weapons and equipment a race/ model could comprehend and use. Ogryns not being able to use anything but melee weapons because they could not understand firearms without brain surgery.

WoW_Auron
27-04-2007, 06:21
Never used to play 40k "back in the day" What were those grot guns, or something. That fired tiny grots at people, which found their way through armour and just gnawed at everything.

I still remember my friend telling me how incredibly imba they were, whatever they were called!

Ardathair
27-04-2007, 06:30
Never used to play 40k "back in the day" What were those grot guns, or something. That fired tiny grots at people, which found their way through armour and just gnawed at everything.

I still remember my friend telling me how incredibly imba they were, whatever they were called!

Shock Attack Guns, opened a small warp tunnel, sent grots through, if the tunnel opened up in your armor watch out.:D Hands down the most colorful, funny weapon in the game.

WoW_Auron
27-04-2007, 06:44
Thats the one, oh i wish i'd seen one of those in action!


Hands down the most colorful, funny weapon in the game

Oh, i dont know about that. The Catling Sniper made me smile!

40k Cats are the way forward!

I really should tidy my account up, siggy.. Avatar, hrm.

KITS AND BITS
27-04-2007, 10:19
I Miss Opening A White Dwarf And Seeing A New Model , Not A New Version Or A Rehash Of A Model , I Mean An Actual Completely New Model That Has Never Been Produced Before .they Used To Call It Something Begining With The Letter O ....original Or Something Like That

I HAVE TO ADMIT THE BELIAL MODEL CAME VERY CLOSE TO THAT AS HES NEVER BEEN DONE BEFORE IN THAT FORMAT , BUT I MEAN A TRUELY ORIGINAL MODEL , LIKE WHEN THE ASPECT WARRIORS MADE THE FIRST APPERANCE IN WHITE DWARF BACK IN THE DAY (138 I THINK)

Curufew
27-04-2007, 10:29
Wow how much they charged you for a box of rhinos with 3 rhinos in it

El_Phen
27-04-2007, 19:20
The best thing about Rogue Trader for me were the endless randomly generated tables. None of your 'namby-pamby' D6 nonsense either WE had a D100 thank you very much! Is my memory correct when I say that the two Chaos books had 0-1000 tables? I got rid of mine on ebay years ago and can't check.

Other random old bits I'm forever mentioning include:

Thudd Guns, Ork robots (in the style of Space Marines, Eldar and Squats), Dreadnoughts the size of modern day Terminators, Multi-Meltas with a) a blst template and b) damage that needed several dice to determine, Orks with a sense of humour, Imperial Guard who did more than say, 'Front Rank, FIRE! etc.', taking what seemed like three days to write a list and about an hour/hour and a half to play the game (see original point for details), hand flamers, Defence Lasers!, being allowed to use coke cans with straws sticking out of 'em for terrain and Land Raiders that presumably had Tardis-Like innards.

gorgon
27-04-2007, 20:22
Back in my day, power armored Slann in flight packs was a reality, not just a dream :D

Sheena Easton
28-04-2007, 01:32
Back In My Day

Mekboyz could fire Snotling Bases which ended up in the legs of terminators, causing the ammo to blow up in Tanks or (more commonly) scatter infront of Ragnar Blackmane
Hand Flamers had a tiny template that was pretty useless
Random Virus Outbreaks caused many Turn 1 victories against any army that wasn't Marines or CSM
Wierdboyz had Power Vomit as a Psychic Power
Overwatch and hiding meant you spent most of the game hiding behind cover or on Overwatch
Stormboyz were disciplined and frequently blew themselves up

Plebian
28-04-2007, 02:08
I started in 3rd edition, so I don't know much. What armies were there BITD? Which ones were the most popular?
-Plebian

CryoMax
28-04-2007, 03:21
Power boards. (Hover skateboards, only used by the insane in combat.)


I totally forgot about Power Boards! There was a great picture, now that you mention it, of a Squat holding up his graffiti'd power board. And I so wanted to field a unit of power board-riding squats. I even have a single plastic Squat w/ lasgun that I had traded for back in college, and was going to try to model up a powerboard for him... Never did. Not much reason to do it now. :P

Although I suppose I could do 'em up as a "counts as" jump packs, except that the IG don't have jump packs... Hmm...

...Paul

CryoMax
28-04-2007, 03:23
Wow how much they charged you for a box of rhinos with 3 rhinos in it

$20 American, at one point. Given inflation, it'd probably be like $30-40 these days... For *3*. Sad, eh?

...Paul

Shatiel
28-04-2007, 06:36
I loved the subversiveness of the game
how tongue in cheek it was
the quotes such as "pain is weakness leaving the body"
and my favourite "do not waste your tears on me my eyes were not made to watch the stars go dim, life is not measured in years but in the deeds of men"
I also liked Ultra marines in urban camouflage, deathwing in powered armour and the evocative feel of the Logans world pictures, great inspiration for the 40k roleplay campaign me and my friends ran in the early nineties.
Right i am off to pine for the days of yore

Bookwrak
28-04-2007, 08:07
I totally forgot about Power Boards! There was a great picture, now that you mention it, of a Squat holding up his graffiti'd power board. And I so wanted to field a unit of power board-riding squats. I even have a single plastic Squat w/ lasgun that I had traded for back in college, and was going to try to model up a powerboard for him... Never did. Not much reason to do it now. :P

Although I suppose I could do 'em up as a "counts as" jump packs, except that the IG don't have jump packs... Hmm...

...Paul

Dude, make them the roughest of the rough riders. Powerboards and lances.

It would be... awesome.

Easy E
28-04-2007, 12:30
I also miss the old boxes of 36 Ig, Squats, or Orks (with special and heavy weapons) for $30 (US) and the 3 rhinos for $25. I was bummed when the eldar got the metal/plastic Guardian set of 20 guys for $30. I felt ripped off.

CryoMax
29-04-2007, 00:52
Dude, make them the roughest of the rough riders. Powerboards and lances.

It would be... awesome.

Oh, man, forget the lances, imagine squats with chainswords and laspistols posed to jump on whoever they run into... Crap, now I gotta find a few legacy squats... :P

...Paul

carlisimo
29-04-2007, 09:49
I also miss the old boxes of 36 Ig, Squats, or Orks (with special and heavy weapons) for $30 (US) and the 3 rhinos for $25. I was bummed when the eldar got the metal/plastic Guardian set of 20 guys for $30. I felt ripped off.

I know what you mean. But... when I pick up a 2nd edition model and hold it up next to a modern one, I think to myself "yeah, they're totally worth the price increase." I'm more into the modeling and painting, so I don't expect most people to feel the same way.

Overall I'm happy with the new rules; games used to take FOREVER and that was even if you only played the modern equivalent of 1000 points! Well not always, sometimes a couple of characters were about half of those points and they'd take out all of the regular troops with their crazy powers and have a character showdown that would determine the game. They got so out of hand...

Oh and as a non-power-armor-army player, I loved armor modifiers instead of the new AP system. It took me forever to get over that - I think a lot of anti-SM bitterness started from there. Shuriken catapults would reduce SM armors saves to 5+! Ah, those were the days...

KITS AND BITS
29-04-2007, 11:22
i miss 5 howling banshees (lead ) in a blister for 2.99 ($6) this soon shot up when they switched to white metal

TeddyC
29-04-2007, 12:03
D66's

Ahhh ive still got necromunda and bloodbowl for that!

Hell im gonna dig out my old copy of 2nd ed and get some skirmish games going on!

lanrak
29-04-2007, 12:32
Hi all.
I cannot help feeling somthing brilliant is being lost.Yes the quality of the 'playing pieces' is being improved.
But the 'in game fun' has been reduced.GW used to create the most fantastic universe for us to explore.The rules let you try out all the wierd and wackyness of the 41st millenium.

40k was the best 3D rpg ever IMO.
Now its just a bland abstract simplified 'slug fest'.IMO.

Snotteef
29-04-2007, 16:47
I was flipping throught the compendium and found some more interesting tidbits.

- 10 marines cost 250 points and 10 Guardsmen cost 200 points.
- Any Marine (except Termies) could have jump packs for 2 points a piece.
- Librarians were mandatory!
- Imperial Guard assualt squads with jump packs... awesome
- Your 3 rhinos together instituted over 1000 points (373 per model)!:eek:

The search for Rogue Trader Era Marines goes well. I have about 60 RT Marines, a couple of Rhinos and an RT Land Raider (in the mail). I am having trouble finding a decently priced RT Dreadnought, however, people pay out the butt for those hideous little things.

Slaaneshi Slave
29-04-2007, 16:49
I picked up a couple of RT Dreadnoughts for about 7 each. Shouldn't be too difficult to find.

ninja101
29-04-2007, 18:27
Back in my day...there was a gun for pulling people through tanks, a gun for teleporting snotlings around and a gun which could move people into mountains

Back in my day...psykers were all but unstoppable (at least until you drew to demonic attack of doom)

Back in my day...cyclone missile launchers exploded!

Back in my day...Mephiston was actually the lord of death

Back in my day...people actually fell back to a safe-looking place

I think that's what I miss a bit, the persistent templates (destructor anyone?) and the weird cunning of some of the weapons (one of my earliest memories of wargaming is lifting and dropping a whirlwind), but what I dont miss are the super-beings where it was tactically sound to have one super-character and about three normal blokes tagging along for the ride.

And of course the squats!

Edit: and of course the many, many sided dice (bring back the D20! I still have two!)

Indrid Khold
29-04-2007, 19:39
I miss Guardians wearing chainmail and using lasguns...


Well okay, not really.

Irondog
09-05-2007, 23:06
Ok boys, here's one fom the vaults: Human Bombs :)

Detonate one and he throws out additional blast markers in random directions. If spaced properly (and within LOS of the AdMech guy holding the switch) you could create a really impressive fireworks display :)

0ld1eye
09-05-2007, 23:25
5-man armies. grey knights. awesome.

wasn't playing warhammer at that time, but I dug out the rules (passed down by my uncle) and challenged a friend. insane.

TheOTHERmaninblack
10-05-2007, 01:45
Is anybody familiar with the Dark Millenium project over on 40Konline? As I recall, they were trying to create an addon ruleset for the (3rd ed then) current ruleset to bring back some of the depth of the old days.

rouge09
10-05-2007, 01:58
i realy miss the old harly's, and watching ppls uber uber special charetors die to d cannons on wraithlords.