PDA

View Full Version : Bases vs Rules?



UncleCrazy
27-04-2007, 16:48
Ok The Rules say that the bases must not be smaller than what the mini comes with right? Ok here is the Problem my Terminators are all old which means 25mm bases but that is what they came with.

Please do not say just go down to the GW store and buy new bases. There is no GW store in this Country I live in, nor is it easy for me to mail order.

Templar Ben
27-04-2007, 16:58
Depends on who you play against. Around here it is understood that the player will place the model on the 40mm base during the game. They don't have to rebase but during the game you will need to show the proper footprint.

Quin 242
27-04-2007, 17:04
It's a continuing issue on that.

Check with your opponents and store and see what the local ruling on that is.
If they are all good with 25s then stay as you are. Otherwise, measure out a circle of plasticard or even cardboard.. whatever to get the right size.

shutupSHUTUP!!!
27-04-2007, 17:08
I don't think the rule is ambiguous, they came with 25mm bases therefore they may use them. I believe the rule is wrriten this way specifically to let people use their older models without rules conflicts.

TKitch
27-04-2007, 17:48
you ARE allowed to use the old metal termies on 25mm bases, since that was what they were packaged with.

there is nothing to say they can't. (In fact it was stated as such when the new plastics came out.)

KaldCB
27-04-2007, 18:15
You can use your old minis without problem, that is why the rule is written like that.
You can use models on the bases that where supplied with them, and old terminators was supplied with 25 mm bases, I don't se a problem here.

Templar Ben
27-04-2007, 18:25
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=73819&highlight=terminator+base

Over in rules there was a long discussion about it. As I said in my first post, it depends on who you are playing against.

Tim has a good argument that you can use 25mm base if you can currently buy a 25mm based model. Some on this thread argue that you can because you could before. That does not hold. Models are supplied (present tense) so you can use what that with which they are currently supplied.

Like I said, it depends on who you play with.

Democratus
27-04-2007, 18:27
Just stick a disk of paper/plasticard/whatever to the bottom of your base and make it the right size. No need to spend extra money at all.

obithius
28-04-2007, 12:08
There's no need to spend money,time,or anything.Your models came with 25mm bases,so that's what they stand on.When the plastics came out GW said as much.
Incidentally,larger bases are better for models as you get to space them out more.

victorpofa
28-04-2007, 13:07
There's no need to spend money,time,or anything.Your models came with 25mm bases,so that's what they stand on.When the plastics came out GW said as much.
Incidentally,larger bases are better for models as you get to space them out more.

I have many metal Wolf Guard Terminators purchased in new blisters from Chaos Orc, and they came with 25mm bases. Besides, there are no slotted 40mm bases so far as I know. Hell, the plastic termies I picked up used were plastic slotted minis that were attached to slotted 25mm bases. I use what they came with.

I also agree with obithius that bigger bases would be better for spacing, but that's not what i got with the minis. Now if GW made a slotted 40mm base I would consider rebasing the metals.

Templar Ben
28-04-2007, 13:36
There's no need to spend money,time,or anything.Your models came with 25mm bases,so that's what they stand on.When the plastics came out GW said as much.
Incidentally,larger bases are better for models as you get to space them out more.

Perhaps that is true where you live. You will have a hard time finding a game here.

If larger bases are better then it begs the question of why would GW say it is allowable to go bigger but never to go smaller. Sure you can create a scenario where a larger base is better but the events most likely to occur such as close combat the smaller base is better.

Around here people don't take kindly to someone who uses an old model to get some special advantage. Obviously that is not the case where you play.

Darnok
28-04-2007, 13:40
Around here people don't take kindly to someone who uses an old model to get some special advantage. Obviously that is not the case where you play.

So your friends wouldn't play against somebody who bought his Terminators when they were available only in metal and doesn't want to replace them by plastics? If that is indeed the case, your friends are a bit strange...

Templar Ben
28-04-2007, 13:45
So your friends wouldn't play against somebody who bought his Terminators when they were available only in metal and doesn't want to replace them by plastics? If that is indeed the case, your friends are a bit strange...

No my friends would hand him or her a stack of 40mm bases that the person can place those on for the duration of the game. This would be with the expectation that if you are going to keep playing them you will buy your own in the future.

We also have people that have heavy weapon teams on 40mm bases and for a game they set the weapon and two guardsmen on a 60mm base for the game. It is simple and more importantly it is fair.

Playing terminators on 25mm bases is using the fact that you are an old gamer or able to spend money on eBay to get an advantage. We don't play with people that are looking for an advantage in such a way.

Slaaneshi Slave
28-04-2007, 13:50
The rules say the bases they came with, so what is the problem? My metal terminators came with 25mm bases, so they are on 25mm bases, my metal dreadnought came with no base, so it has no base. Perfectly within the rules.

wickedvoodoo
28-04-2007, 13:52
No my friends would hand him or her a stack of 40mm bases that the person can place those on for the duration of the game. This would be with the expectation that if you are going to keep playing them you will buy your own in the future.

We also have people that have heavy weapon teams on 40mm bases and for a game they set the weapon and two guardsmen on a 60mm base for the game. It is simple and more importantly it is fair.

Playing terminators on 25mm bases is using the fact that you are an old gamer or able to spend money on eBay to get an advantage. We don't play with people that are looking for an advantage in such a way.

Wow people actually think bother about those things, thats cold!

I wouldnt think twice about Terminators being on 25mm bases as long as ALL of the termies in your army ore on the same bases. Not 25mm here and 40mm there. If you opponents are picking you up on stuff like this then i would find new ones.

bertcom1
28-04-2007, 13:59
Sisters of Battle Immolators.

Old ones are noticeably smaller, being based on the old Rhino. Consequently, they can pass through tighter terrain, making them more mobile, and also they take less cover to achieve hull down, making them more survivable.

Are those models to be abandoned as illegal in favour of the new ones?

What about the rumoured updated Vindicator? Would it's release then make all existing Vindicators illegal?

Templar Ben
28-04-2007, 14:05
The rules say the bases they came with, so what is the problem? My metal terminators came with 25mm bases, so they are on 25mm bases, my metal dreadnought came with no base, so it has no base. Perfectly within the rules.

Actually it says "are usually supplied" (see page 6). That would be present tense. Doesn't matter what they used to be supplied. Now if you want to argue that hey I can find some other way to get around it like the fact the terminators will have the little base in the box for the teleport homer then think about what you are really trying to do with the game.


Wow people actually think bother about those things, thats cold!

I wouldnt think twice about Terminators being on 25mm bases as long as ALL of the termies in your army ore on the same bases. Not 25mm here and 40mm there. If you opponents are picking you up on stuff like this then i would find new ones.

We prefer for the game to be fair. Perhaps that does make us cold.

That is fine that it works in your group. I know what works here and it fits exactly what is on page 6. Just like I told the OP back when this began, it depends on who you play with.

Slaaneshi Slave
28-04-2007, 14:08
Actually it says "are usually supplied" (see page 6). That would be present tense. Doesn't matter what they used to be supplied. Now if you want to argue that hey I can find some other way to get around it like the fact the terminators will have the little base in the box for the teleport homer then think about what you are really trying to do with the game.

Think about what I'm trying to do to the game? Not have to cut up my figures?

spikydavid
28-04-2007, 14:08
No my friends would hand him or her a stack of 40mm bases that the person can place those on for the duration of the game. This would be with the expectation that if you are going to keep playing them you will buy your own in the future.

We also have people that have heavy weapon teams on 40mm bases and for a game they set the weapon and two guardsmen on a 60mm base for the game. It is simple and more importantly it is fair.

Playing terminators on 25mm bases is using the fact that you are an old gamer or able to spend money on eBay to get an advantage. We don't play with people that are looking for an advantage in such a way.

And I don't like to play with pompous asses that assume that I'm looking for an advantage just because I've been playing for a while.

You *********** expect me to rebase the figures I've owned for fifteen years just because you *think* there's an advantage I'm desperately clinging to? You're an arrogant idiot

Wise Guy Sam
28-04-2007, 14:15
Bah, I doubt most people would even think of this discrepancy. If someone did pick you up on it, remind them you are here to enjoy a fun afternoon of gaming (and eating corn chips... well that's my thing anyway). I hope i never play someone who WOULD mention something like this. It would be a sad day.

Darnok
28-04-2007, 14:20
No my friends would hand him or her a stack of 40mm bases that the person can place those on for the duration of the game. This would be with the expectation that if you are going to keep playing them you will buy your own in the future.

We also have people that have heavy weapon teams on 40mm bases and for a game they set the weapon and two guardsmen on a 60mm base for the game. It is simple and more importantly it is fair.

Playing terminators on 25mm bases is using the fact that you are an old gamer or able to spend money on eBay to get an advantage. We don't play with people that are looking for an advantage in such a way.

Fair enough. But don't assume people play older miniatures just for the ingame advantage.

On the "are usually supplied": well, the older metal Termis ARE usually supplied with 25 mm bases, just try to mail-order them. Or go to a hobby store that still stocks some of the old minis. I really don't want to argue that to the blood, but there is nothing illegal about playing the older Termis with their 25 mm bases.

@ spikydavid: I'm sure there are more polite ways to express your opinion. ;)

Templar Ben
28-04-2007, 14:32
Think about what I'm trying to do to the game? Not have to cut up my figures?

I don't recall saying anything about cutting figures.


And I don't like to play with pompous asses that assume that I'm looking for an advantage just because I've been playing for a while.

You *********** expect me to rebase the figures I've owned for fifteen years just because you *think* there's an advantage I'm desperately clinging to? You're an arrogant idiot

I don't expect you to do anything. I know that there is an advantage and the BGB alludes to such on page 6. Perhaps if you had an argument you would not resort to name calling. Very well, I am done as you obviously have nothing to counter.

Slaaneshi Slave
28-04-2007, 14:44
I don't recall saying anything about cutting figures.

To put metal Terminator on a 40mm base requires the tab to be cut off and the figures pinned to the base.

BloodiedSword
28-04-2007, 14:52
It seems a little excessive and over the top to assume that just because someone wants to keep using their 25mm based metal Terminators as is, they are doing so just to gain an in game advantage.

Of course there is an advantage there but if the difference in base size is such a big deal to your gaming group that you would refuse to play someone on that basis that I would find a little.. strange. Is it really going to make the game less fun for either player just because of that? Or is the difference between winning and losing so important to you that you cannot overlook such a small unfairness?

Personally I could not care less because there far too many significant loopholes in the rules that are completely legal that people could exploit to make it worth kicking up any kind of a fuss about something as obscure and, frankly, irrelevant as this.

ctsteel
28-04-2007, 14:59
To put metal Terminator on a 40mm base requires the tab to be cut off and the figures pinned to the base.

not so - my friend has a bunch of older dark angel termies - the models themselves are slightly shorter than the new plastic ones, he found that by sticking the 25mm base on top of a 40mm one, the height of the termi is very similar to the new plastic ones. He then simply glued gravel and such around the base and voila, instant termi on pile of rocks/small hill.

To me, the older metal models are fine on 25mm bases as they were originally designed that way and the person may have had it for ages. If you just bought one new recently, well its up to you of course, but hopefully you'd be basing the model to fit the base size of the other terminators in your army (either 25 or 40).

Where I personally draw the line however, is someone mounting a new plastic terminator on a 25mm base. The new plastic termis are designed for 40mm bases, and just because the older metal ones are okay for backwards compatibility, that doesn't justify mounting the plastic ones on smaller bases.

Slaaneshi Slave
28-04-2007, 15:06
Except the new plastic terminators are too tall, so why would I want to make my old ones larger too? If you look at the old minituresand compare them to the new ones (using Guardsmen as a base of reference) humans have gained about a foot, and Marines have gained about 2 feet, making them well over 10" tall now...

ctsteel
28-04-2007, 15:10
well, space marines in tactical dreadnought armour should be taller than a guardsman, right?

Slaaneshi Slave
28-04-2007, 15:22
They were when they were first released. Then Guardsmen got taller, so Marines got taller, and Terminators have now gotten taller again.

There is no reason for them to be taller than a normal Marine though, since it is only a normal Marine who is inside of the armour.

ctsteel
28-04-2007, 15:37
i thought TDA was bigger than power armour also? the artwork and novels seem to imply so. compare the size of the power fist, to the rest of the armour.

you are correct that it is the same size marine in there, but I am thinking thicker armour plate on the boots + bigger shoulders etc = somewhat bigger marine in total.

at any rate, the scale of figures in this miniature range has never been kept to a standard, so its all fairly irrelevant i guess.

Slaaneshi Slave
28-04-2007, 15:48
Thicker armour on his feet would mean he was an inch or so taller... Shoulders on the models come out of the side of the guys head, which is just wrong. Lower the shoulders and you have an inch from the heels (wouldn't be a great deal different than a normal Marine), and a could of inches for the top of his armour (power pack?). In all he should not be tall enough to see a difference on the table top.

TeddyC
28-04-2007, 16:02
Around here people don't take kindly to someone who uses an old model to get some special advantage. Obviously that is not the case where you play.

See thats the sort of attitude that makes me only want to play people I know.

Who says he is doing it deliberately to get an advantage?

The old wolf guard termies... though pretty static in pose, were really nice sculpts. This poster (the way I read it) bought his models BEFORE they new base sizing came out. Why should he have to potentially ruin a paintjob and base to conform with GWs new policy.

Im just glad I dont play in your group. What about old 'big' creatures (ogryns, carnifexes, Hive tyrants, old warriors, old avatars etc) that come on 40mm Square bases? are they disallowed as well?

Mrlemonjelly
28-04-2007, 18:18
See thats the sort of attitude that makes me only want to play people I know.

Hear hear!

I only play with my friends. Mainly because there's not a store or club anywhere in my area, but I'm glad I do. My friends would never pick up on something so stupid as this. Most of our models are outdated, funny sizes, mix-matched conversions or scratchbuilds. But nobody complains, because we play the game to have fun. Arguing about the sizes of discs of plastic is not my idea of fun.

UncleCrazy
28-04-2007, 19:25
@Templar Ben

Handing me lots of bases and telling me to go rebase my minis, which means cutting and pinning, on some Terminators that have been out of print for 20 years?

Sorry man, you just broke the "most important rule" Page 5 if you don't know it.

Son of Makuta
28-04-2007, 21:02
If you feel the need, you can get bags of cheap 40mm bases on ebay, but I don't see the problem with using old 25mm based models. I mean, it's actually a disadvantage in some ways.

But stuff it! If anyone's going to be picky enough to make a fuss over your bases (unless you're in a tournament), well, there are always nicer people to play against... ;)

Hemlocke
28-04-2007, 21:57
To put metal Terminator on a 40mm base requires the tab to be cut off and the figures pinned to the base.

No, it doesn't. You can simply take the current 25mm base and apply some plastic glue to the bottom and place it on the center of a 40mm.

Solved.

A slightly more versatile approach that I've used for putting 40mm based wraithlords on new 60mm bases, is to drill a hole in the 40mm base and have a pin(paperclip) sticking up out of the 60mm for use during a game. (They're easier to store on the 40mm bases I bought them with)

It's not really a complicated procedure. A similar method could be used for non-permanent attachments of 25mm termies to 40mm bases.

~Hemlocke

Snapchuck
28-04-2007, 22:05
This is not something I've considered, the idea there is an advantage in base sizes.
Slightly off topic, can anyone tell me which "clear stand" base size is the right one for jetbikes? Currently I kinda use a mix.

Stad
28-04-2007, 22:30
So my Khorne force has their aspiring champs on 40mm bases, just to stand out, that is ok from GW's standing or before I base, should I redo them...

superknijn
28-04-2007, 22:34
No, it's okay: you may use bigger bases, but not smaller. Page 6 of the rulebook.

TeddyC
28-04-2007, 22:46
ha ha... this has split everyone down the middle eh!

A lot people say pin or glue a model to the new base. Im not a fan of that. I realise a lot of people who play 'just for the games' probably dont pay too much attention the models as long as theyare 'game legal'. I imagine the people against the base size argument are the ones who either prefer... or like equally.... the modelling element to the hobby... and to me drilling holes in my bases or glueing them onto larger bases is not something I would be overly happy about.

Hemlocke
29-04-2007, 01:28
ha ha... this has split everyone down the middle eh!

A lot people say pin or glue a model to the new base. Im not a fan of that. I realise a lot of people who play 'just for the games' probably dont pay too much attention the models as long as theyare 'game legal'. I imagine the people against the base size argument are the ones who either prefer... or like equally.... the modelling element to the hobby... and to me drilling holes in my bases or glueing them onto larger bases is not something I would be overly happy about.

Actually, I'm more into this for the modeling, painting, and background than the actual gameplay.

However, when I assemble my models (or basing conventions appear to change), I want my little works of art to be beyond reproach for the purpose of the game (respect for my opponents). I may cut my opponents some slack on bases and WYSIWYG, but not myself.

I don't mind drilling the odd hole here and there, since I'm confidant that any accidental damage can be remedied with a little care and greenstuff.

But then, again, I'm okay with devoting that time. It's how I relax.

~Hemlocke

Karloth Valois
29-04-2007, 01:47
I'm having a hard time beliving anyone is going to give two expletives about the size of the base an old mini is using. Simply because newer terminators (Imperial Terminators only in fact) come with 40mm bases does not mean everyone who owns any of the old ones have to automatically "upgrade" to larger bases because of the new models. What is the hobby coming to?

archonbrujah
29-04-2007, 02:25
Why would I rebase any of my models just because GW decided to mount the new plastic Terminators on 40mm? It's not a matter of can I or can't I, it's a matter of why should I? I've never before seen anyone read the BGB ruling as I should remount my Terminators on new bases. BTW, if anyone doubts what size bases they came with, I still have some unpainted old pastic terminators I can show them, as well as the metal Wolf Guard.

Now I'm not about to put my models on anything smaller then supplied, but I'm also no going to spend the extra cash on additional bases. Personally, I think that if the game is so close that the oppoent feels you won or lost because of the base size on your classic metal Terminators, they probably weren't much fun to play against in the first place.

Archonbrujah

UncleCrazy
29-04-2007, 02:51
Last night before bed I was thinking about this topic. You know if you put bigger bases on IG around 2" on each mini, you can win many games without ever rolling a dice.

Playing vs Drop Pod army: Take infiltrate = you win 120 IG with 2" bases will cover a 4'x6' table leaving no room for them to come in, so you win without ever rolling a dice.

This would work vs any army that can not come in the first turn.

One dice roll for other Infiltrating armies, if you win the roll they lose

Wise Guy Sam
29-04-2007, 08:37
Last night before bed I was thinking about this topic. You know if you put bigger bases on IG around 2" on each mini, you can win many games without ever rolling a dice.

Playing vs Drop Pod army: Take infiltrate = you win 120 IG with 2" bases will cover a 4'x6' table leaving no room for them to come in, so you win without ever rolling a dice.

This would work vs any army that can not come in the first turn.

One dice roll for other Infiltrating armies, if you win the roll they lose

OK thats something that i could have a problem with. The cheek on you ;)
Post this in the 40k tactic section and see what happens, label it Tactica Guard.

Has anyone actually rebased models because of a new GW release?? (termies or anything)

Slaaneshi Slave
29-04-2007, 09:11
No, it doesn't. You can simply take the current 25mm base and apply some plastic glue to the bottom and place it on the center of a 40mm.

Solved.


Except then they will look absolutly ******* rediculous. Not solved.