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Bretonnian Lord
29-04-2007, 01:28
"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake"- Napoleon Bonaparte

I was playing a game with my friend, and we were doing combat. He had forgotten to use his Saurus Old Blood's attacks in a fight with my Grail Knights, so I pointed this out to him. He thanked me for reminding him and his Old Blood promptly killed off half of my Grails. :(

So I was just wondering what you would do in this situation. Whenever you are playing someone in a game and they accidentally forget to do something that would benefit them, do you remind them? Or do you just keep quiet and let them carry on?

Wargamejunkie
29-04-2007, 01:33
Depends, on the oppponent and the location. In a friendly game, sure let him roll, but in a competition I would have to say they miss out unless they really ask to.

But if you let them slide on that, they better pay it back latter.

sigur
29-04-2007, 01:34
You wrote that you're playing with a friend, right?:)

Apart from that, I don't know about tournaments but forgetting attacks of models that are already in close combat clearly isn't a "tactical mistake" but just forgetting about something, which can happen in a game so pointing it out is more or less a question of being a good sport.

Bretonnian Lord
29-04-2007, 01:46
Yeah, I think that in a friendly game it's nice to remind them. I wasn't so sure about a more competitive match however... :)

Hywel
29-04-2007, 02:10
Even in a tournament I'd remind the opponent and I hope they'd do the same for me.

Not leaving my opponent an easy excuse like that to explain his defeat! :evilgrin:

Gyulkus Chaos Saurus
29-04-2007, 02:43
I agree with the "don't interupt your opponent when he makes a mistake" thing, but i think that only applies to tactical mistakes, not just something your opponent forgot.

Wargamejunkie
29-04-2007, 02:50
Well, using that logic would you remind the to cast spells with their wizards or charge you when they get the chance.

I think being a good sport only goes so far, as a player you should remember things for themself.

EvC
29-04-2007, 03:01
Casting spells and making charges is optional; you cannot choose to not attack in Close Combat. If you notice your opponent forgetting his attacks and don't tell him, that is technically cheating as you are breaking the "rules" of the game. Same with dice rolls if he thinks he needs more than he really does and things like that.

spikedog
29-04-2007, 03:03
I tend to remind my enemy about everything they forgot but as Wargamejunkie said that doesn't extend as far as forgetting to charge/shoot or tactical mistakes such as charging the wrong unit.

I would remind them of something like forgetting mounts attacks, poision, extra combat res or modifiers to hit.

Griefbringer
29-04-2007, 06:57
Well, using that logic would you remind the to cast spells with their wizards or charge you when they get the chance.


I would still ask them at the end of the appropriate phase (before moving to another) if they are really sure they remembered to cast all the spells they could, declare all the charges they wanted, move all the units they wanted and shoot everything they could.

Nell2ThaIzzay
29-04-2007, 07:16
"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake"- Napoleon Bonaparte

I was playing a game with my friend, and we were doing combat. He had forgotten to use his Saurus Old Blood's attacks in a fight with my Grail Knights, so I pointed this out to him. He thanked me for reminding him and his Old Blood promptly killed off half of my Grails. :(

So I was just wondering what you would do in this situation. Whenever you are playing someone in a game and they accidentally forget to do something that would benefit them, do you remind them? Or do you just keep quiet and let them carry on?

I usually won't REMIND them (often because I'm not aware of certain things that they'd be doing that would benefit them) but if they remember by a reasonable point (I.E. during the same turn) I will go ahead and give it to them.

This actually did happen to me last night. I was playing my Vampire Counts against my friend's Lizardmen. My Grave Guard charged his Saurus, and my champion was in base to base contact with his hero. So I directed my attacks from the champion to his hero, and I hit twice, so I rolled to-wound. I rolled a 3 and a 4, 1 wound scored.

What I forgot, that I didn't remember until -AFTER- the roll, was that I gave my Grave Guard halberds specifically for this situation, and I meant to declare that I was using halberds, not hand weapon / shield. Because it was after the to-wound roll (with halberds, both of my wounds would have scored), I asked my friend if I could declare that my Grave Guard were using their halberds, but because I rolled "to wound" already, the 3 I rolled would not count, and I'd only score 1 wound. He agreed, and we carried on. It didn't matter, because my remaining 3 Grave Guard all hit and scored killing blows against the Saurus (yes, somehow I rolled 3 6's), and my Vampire Count, who was also in base to base with the hero, slaughtered the guy with another 2 wounds dealt.

For certain things, such as positioning, knowing intent is greatly important. I.E.: If it is possible for my opponent to move his mage out of line of sight of my units, him expressing that intent to me is more important than the 1/4 inch placement of the model on the board. So if my opponent says "Would you agree this is out of LOS?", I'll say "I agree now that I know it's your intent". Obviously, an attempt needs to be made to place the model properly, but in just for fun games with friends, as long as I know their intent, I am willing to be lenient with them.[dice0]

Gorbad Ironclaw
29-04-2007, 07:57
Even in a tournament I'd remind the opponent and I hope they'd do the same for me.

Not leaving my opponent an easy excuse like that to explain his defeat! :evilgrin:


Yup. Even if it's a tournament it's still supposed to be a fun game, so depending on the mistake I'd remind them.

For something like forgetting to attack with the old blood I'd point it out. If it's more tactical in nature, I won't. But you might as well make the game flow better and be more friendly. Will make it a better game in the end.

Falkman
29-04-2007, 09:47
I'm with Hywel and Gorbad on this one.
If your enemy simply forgets to attack or something like that, I would point it out, but if he moves his troops to a location that might not be so optimal, I'd shut it :p

DarkLord Of Naggaroth
29-04-2007, 10:43
If they're just forgetting something like that, then I wouldn't hesitate to tell them. In other situations I'd feel tempted to keep my mouth shut but I know that I'll feel bad afterward so I'll decide against it.

really, it's just cheating and bad sportsmenship.

Unclejo
29-04-2007, 11:27
"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake"- Napoleon Bonaparte

"Never play a wargame with someone who is playing to win at all costs"- Unclejo

I'll point out my opponents mistakes, remind him when he's forgot to do something and laugh along as my armies get annihilated as a result. I find the whole concept of truly competitive play with little toy soldiers a bit odd. Yes, I don't play to lose, but for me a game where an opponent has enjoyed himself whether he wins or loses is more important then getting 1,000,000 VP's.

larabic
29-04-2007, 11:30
I would usually remind them, I would rather win/lose a game when my opposition is playing at his best. Especially if it is a friend of mine, if he was a jerk at a tourny or something...i could see letting it slide.

Pleasurepain
29-04-2007, 18:08
To reiterate what a couple of people have said, combatants must attack. They cannot choose not to. If you do not remind your opponent to roll for the attacks, you are cheating plain and simple. Of course, if they make a tactical error (moving their unit in a strange place, for example) then you don't have to say anything.

The difference is whether the game is being played incorrectly (by not rolling for a model's attacks) or correctly but, in your eyes, foolishly (moving their unit in a silly place). If it is the former, you must say something whether or not the error benefits you personally. Both people are playing the game, not just the one whose turn it is, and to knowingly play the game wrong for your own benefit is cheating.

Dragonreaver
29-04-2007, 18:24
I'd tend to agree with the majority here.

Something like forgetting an extra attack for a champion, or forgetting certain weapon's special rules I'd definately remind them (in the unlikely circumstance that I noticed it and they didn't :p).

And a few times I've hinted that they might have forgotten something. Once, my opponent completely forgot about his Hellcannon (it was right at the back of the board and we were both down the other end), so every time his shooting phase ended, I heavily implied that he'd forgotten something. It's not my fault he never caught on :p

But I'd never interfere with their tactical decisions. "Are you sure you want to move that there?"-type questions would be extremely annoying for me, so I wouldn't ask them of my opponent either :p Questioning your opponents' every move and treating him like a clueless putz isn't very sportsmanlike! But we all forget little things from time to time.

My philosophy is: If the shoe was on the other foot, would I be comfortable wearing it?

Knowing I'd only won because he forgot something, and not because I was better, would be worse than losing.

I actually quite like losing. I'm good at it.

Rider-Of-Kurnous
29-04-2007, 18:33
I tend not to remind them. The reason being that they usually forget becuase they are too busy firing a toy crossbow at each other.
One thing i like to do is cast my spells when the opponents are to busy( we have 4people all play at once) and say " Do you want to dispell it........................................ No ok then "
I never let them shootr in the combat phase if they forgot to shoot either. However I usually forget to shoot with my scouts but dont ask if i can shoot with them because i forgot about them. Apart from in combat of cause we need to attack

Sherlocko
29-04-2007, 18:33
I usually remind my opponent when I think something is slipping. Even when I got annihilated by a SAD-army I did remind my opponent 3 or 5 times that my shaggoth got storm rage...Of course, that was maybe to reminding I think in hindsigt. :)

Dragonreaver
29-04-2007, 18:42
I tend not to remind them. The reason being that they usually forget becuase they are too busy firing a toy crossbow at each other.
One thing i like to do is cast my spells when the opponents are to busy( we have 4people all play at once) and say " Do you want to dispell it........................................ No ok then "
I never let them shootr in the combat phase if they forgot to shoot either. However I usually forget to shoot with my scouts but dont ask if i can shoot with them because i forgot about them. Apart from in combat of cause we need to attack

Obviously if my opponent is that uninterested and "forgets" because he's not paying any attention, that's different ;)

Hywel
29-04-2007, 20:00
One thing i like to do is cast my spells when the opponents are to busy( we have 4people all play at once) and say " Do you want to dispell it........................................ No ok then "


A stunning tactic. May it bring you a world of success.

Rider-Of-Kurnous
29-04-2007, 20:02
I usually wait a few minites and ask them about three times

Gorbad Ironclaw
29-04-2007, 22:41
But I'd never interfere with their tactical decisions. "Are you sure you want to move that there?"-type questions would be extremely annoying for me, so I wouldn't ask them of my opponent either :p Questioning your opponents' every move and treating him like a clueless putz isn't very sportsmanlike!


It can be good fun with friends tho :angel: :p



@Rider-Of-Kurnous
Wouldn't it be better/smarter/more friendly to just get his attention before you cast your spell. No confusion then, and trying to sneak in things while your opponent is distracted is (at least) borderline cheating.

Bretagne
29-04-2007, 23:45
i think the quote you have included is taken out of context. war in real life isnt a game. people actually die. this is a game. play by the rules and help your opponent out. he/she will learn.

Grimtuff
30-04-2007, 00:02
I usually wait a few minites and ask them about three times

So that makes it right does it? :rolleyes:

Warwolt the skaven
30-04-2007, 00:13
Ive got this philosphy concerning this;
If I don't point out bits of the game mechanics that balances our little games that my opponent have missed out, isn't it like not poiting out my opponent forgot to tie your shoelaces when we're running a marathon. Its just... well, you can't really be proud of a won battle if your opponent havent played as good as he could have done if its not a tactical fault. I always help out the opponent if they miss stuff such as movement phases and such. But I do however not say "... your exposing your flank to me if you do that" as it exactly what I want him to do. And isn't their nothing as irritating as a third partner pointing out tactical misses? Its a battle of minds, thats true. buts its TWO blobs thats having a game. Not the whole ******* gaming store.

Grand Warlord
30-04-2007, 00:58
I would remind him a couple of times atleast.

Khorne warrior
30-04-2007, 04:41
>>I will tell them if they seem like nice people. If I am in a tournament and someone is being a complete jerk, I will not remind him, but as a rule of thumb, I am not a rules-lawyer and I hate to win on technicalities, so I usually will help people.

dodicula
30-04-2007, 04:53
I actually take it a step further, in a friendly game (90%) I will discuss the implications of a choice with my opponent, i.e. "do you wan't to flee, because if you don't I will be able to...."

Bretagne
30-04-2007, 04:55
^^^^Yeah dodicula has helped me out on several occasions. ^^^^^^^
but ive gotten better because of it.

TheBloodyHand
30-04-2007, 05:17
I think, as most everyone else has said, I'd rather lose than win by underhanded methods. Its a game, and beating someone because they either do not know or do not properly understand the rules, game mechanics, or just plain forgot something, is not sportsmanship.

I tend to give most people the benefit of the doubt. I think most people intend to use their army to its fullest capacity, and therefore will be happy to be reminded if they forgot something. I've never had someone get mad for reminding them of something. And I try to be grateful when others remind me of something.

I have to say though, I've been playing tournament style games against a friend of mine who is a great tournament player, which is awesome except it changed the way I play, we tend to be cutthroat with each other. I played another friend of mine today who prefers story driven, characterful, friendly games, and almost forgot it was a "friendly" game. I won w/ a MV but it didn't feel as good as because it wasn't a characterful game. I brought a solid army list, lots of new nasty combos, no flavor though. The army was a killing machine (fair and balanced) but a killing machine none the less. Just wasn't as fun. Anyone else have these kinds of situations?

VampireOfKhorne
30-04-2007, 13:46
Even in a tournament you should remind him. It wouldn't be much of a victory if you won because he forgot a bunch of attacks.

EvC
30-04-2007, 14:33
I have to say though, I've been playing tournament style games against a friend of mine who is a great tournament player, which is awesome except it changed the way I play, we tend to be cutthroat with each other. I played another friend of mine today who prefers story driven, characterful, friendly games, and almost forgot it was a "friendly" game. I won w/ a MV but it didn't feel as good as because it wasn't a characterful game. I brought a solid army list, lots of new nasty combos, no flavor though. The army was a killing machine (fair and balanced) but a killing machine none the less. Just wasn't as fun. Anyone else have these kinds of situations?

The most fun games, in my opinion, tend to be the ones with the greatest amount of killing, and the fewest models left remaining on the tabletop at the end. Thus it follows that the most fun games have been where there have been two extremely potent lists murdering the hell out of each other for six brutal turns.

Personally, that's what I always thought Warhammer should be about...