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sallyoz
29-04-2007, 09:49
brothers given that most of the sm range is plastic , do you think its possible that the crusader will get the same treatment. just imagine plastic hurricane bolters- bliss :cool:

The Keeper of Secrets
29-04-2007, 09:56
Please god no!

The crusader must be in metal! Sure it's a pain to assemble (I've been there), but when you pick it up in a game, painted, it feels heavy and therefore much more killy. Thats the problem with plastics. They're so light that they feel worthless, so they get broken loads, metal minis feel much better in your hand, because they're heavier.

KITS AND BITS
29-04-2007, 10:14
Please god no!

The crusader must be in metal! Sure it's a pain to assemble (I've been there), but when you pick it up in a game, painted, it feels heavy and therefore much more killy. Thats the problem with plastics. They're so light that they feel worthless, so they get broken loads, metal minis feel much better in your hand, because they're heavier.

metal crusader sucks , its a complete bitch to assemble and the parts are normally warped and dont fit very well ,i say all vehicles should be plastic or resin . and the faster they sort out the damn fire prism the better !

The Keeper of Secrets
29-04-2007, 10:17
To be honest it wasn't that hard to assemble...

leonmallett
29-04-2007, 10:20
I am thinking of including one in one of my SM armies, but if it were all plastic the decision would be a lot easier to make.

KITS AND BITS
29-04-2007, 10:32
To be honest it wasn't that hard to assemble...

i have assembled 4 in total over the last two years and the huricane bolters and the multi melta have to be pinned and glued and trimmed and filed to a level that for 40 i shouldnt have to , i expect it with forge world because they use silicon molds and resin , but i dont expect to have to do the same with GW metal

Ross
29-04-2007, 10:49
I've never pinned mine and it's had a fair workout. Must be the glue?

Destris
29-04-2007, 10:50
A plastic Crusader will be a lot better than metal, no two ways about it.

A plastic kit is completely finished, and has been for about a year, they're just still waiting for a time slot to release it in. It was going to be for the BT, but it wasn't quite ready in time, so it got held back. It might make it out alongside the plastic Drop Pod, in one of the Apocalypse release waves.

D.

Cypher
29-04-2007, 10:53
Yeah - a plastic kit would be fantastic. It's possibly the most annoying kit to assemble ever (that and the Fire Prism).

chromedog
29-04-2007, 11:55
Annoying to assemble? Have any of you ever tried assembling a 1/35 scale tank with separate track links? GW's kits, even the 'advanced' model kits are still easy to assemble - you just have to know the tricks. All model kits have these tricks to learn. The pegs and rubber bands and clamps and stuff one has been around for at least 30 years (model ship builder use that one).

A plastic one would suffer from just as much warpage, and still require filling with putty and sanding and stuff. That's as much part of the hobby as painting the buggers is. Suck it up and deal with it. :)
The Fire prism is the 4th 40k vehicle model kit I put together - After the falcon. It's a job that cannot be rushed - no kit assembly can be, really. Not if you don't want it to look crap. I've been assembling model kits since the age of 7 (over 30 years ago) so I do know what I'm talking about. Back then, we'd use squadron green and thinners to putty the gaps.

I do think they will release an all-plastic crusader (the price will of course, go UP!) and maybe even an all plastic prism (with a funky UV reactive prism like the 'lith), but I don't know whether it'll get any easier to put together unless they go AMT/ERTL/Monogram snap-tite.:D

shabbadoo
29-04-2007, 12:11
Dang! Destris beat me to it.

MrBigMr
29-04-2007, 12:21
I don't realy care about metal models. Never liked them and never will. But I do use some metal parts with plastics.
If one doesn't like the Crusader parts, why not make his/her/its own conversion. Hell, pop one the doors and model few dozen marines in them, aiming their bolters out.

Vic
29-04-2007, 12:23
Annoying to assemble? Have any of you ever tried assembling a 1/35 scale tank with separate track links? GW's kits, even the 'advanced' model kits are still easy to assemble - you just have to know the tricks. All model kits have these tricks to learn. The pegs and rubber bands and clamps and stuff one has been around for at least 30 years (model ship builder use that one).

A plastic one would suffer from just as much warpage, and still require filling with putty and sanding and stuff. That's as much part of the hobby as painting the buggers is. Suck it up and deal with it. :)
The Fire prism is the 4th 40k vehicle model kit I put together - After the falcon. It's a job that cannot be rushed - no kit assembly can be, really. Not if you don't want it to look crap. I've been assembling model kits since the age of 7 (over 30 years ago) so I do know what I'm talking about. Back then, we'd use squadron green and thinners to putty the gaps.

I do think they will release an all-plastic crusader (the price will of course, go UP!) and maybe even an all plastic prism (with a funky UV reactive prism like the 'lith), but I don't know whether it'll get any easier to put together unless they go AMT/ERTL/Monogram snap-tite.:D

Um, I build Tamiya tanks, museum quality kits, I dont have to fill in gaps etc to build a quality plastic model. Been building models for 32 years now, I havent touched a snap fit kit unless you count the BFM box. So its not so much the medium, as it is the quality of the casting. And for ease of use, durability and proper fit, nothing beats a quality plastic model.

Darnok
29-04-2007, 13:18
I would love it, and even would consider buying a second one then. I have a Crusader lying around somewhere, still unassembled, just because it's painful as hell to get that ********** model together.

Onisuzume
29-04-2007, 13:58
I'm in the process of assembling one myself; and so far I've only put together to regular land raider parts. :D
But yeah, some of the metal parts are a bit warped. (Hurricane bolters anyone?) I guess that'd just BT for you then. Can't trust that lot at all imo.
And I guess that if it was plastic it wouldn't be warped; but then again; doubt that I'll buy a 2nd crusader, even if it did become plastic-only.

I have a Crusader lying around somewhere, still unassembled, just because it's painful as hell to get that ********** model together.
Try the metal devastators, I got 3 boxes of those and I can't even properly fit a hand full of them together.

Vic
29-04-2007, 14:01
In all fairness, it wasnt hard to build the LRC, BUT, the damned metal bits dont want to stay on the model (sponsoons, warped grenade launcher plates, and hurricane bolters).

victorpofa
29-04-2007, 14:26
I would consider purchasing a LRC if it was all plastic. I avoided the last generation of Devastators because of assembly issues. I have two boxes of the new ones already. Go DA Army Box and Battleforce! :)

Clang
30-04-2007, 05:48
Has anyone converted their own Hurricane sponsons from plastic bitz? I'm sure I saw one using Whirlwind turret bitz as the bolter shields. Obviously there's no shortage of bolters around - I think the hardest part would be the bolter magazines (hmm, the heavy bolter ammo fields from the new plastic devastators could come in handy...)

WoW_Auron
30-04-2007, 06:18
Aha! But while its all metalz. They can get away with charging you some 40.

Plastic = cheaper to make, therefore buy.

starlight
30-04-2007, 06:25
Two words:

Dream. On.

I'll bet a mug/glass of your favourite beverage that the price will *at best* stay the same, but likely go up.:(

WoW_Auron
30-04-2007, 06:35
Two words:

Dream. On.

I'll bet a mug/glass of your favourite beverage that the price will *at best* stay the same, but likely go up.

Oh i've no doubt it will. I wasn't saying that WOULD be the case, my point was that plastic is cheaper to manufacture and SHOULD therefore be cheaper for a consumer to buy. I know GW well enough to know that would never actually be the case.

starlight
30-04-2007, 06:43
The mold for the extra sprue will drive the cost up.:(

bdo
30-04-2007, 07:02
and dont forget that there could be one or two other bits on the plastic sprue which are just for there for "stuff"- that will increase the price for sure, too.

carlisimo
30-04-2007, 07:27
Oh i've no doubt it will. I wasn't saying that WOULD be the case, my point was that plastic is cheaper to manufacture and SHOULD therefore be cheaper for a consumer to buy. I know GW well enough to know that would never actually be the case.

Not exactly.

For short-run items, metal is much cheaper. Not the metal itself, but the process - centrifugal casting (the molds are round and have several figure molds in them, you pour metal into the middle, spin the disk around, and voila). What's cheap about them is the molds. The materials are cheap and easy to cut into. But the molds don't last forever (figures with lots of flash were done in old molds) and the white metal is obviously more expensive than plastic. For runs of several thousand, it's still cheaper.

Plastics are done by injection molding. The molds are steel or alloy, so machining them is very expensive. It takes tens or hundreds of thousands of uses for them to be more economical than using metal. Frankly, not enough people want Crusaders for this to be worth it. But GW has surprised us with more plastic figures than ever... their R&D has done a lot for the industry.

Oh and Citadel plastics are much less precise than Tamiya's because Tamiya has a much larger market, making hundreds of thousands of each model instead of tens, so they can spend a lot more on their molds (and the plastic too).

WoW_Auron
30-04-2007, 07:28
Bah, well anyway. Plastic or metal, i care not. Being as im not entirely sure they are worth the money, assembly effort and points. Now if only my poll results weren't pretty much bang on 50% for cost/effectiveness i may have made my mind up by now! Curses!

Edit :: Cheers for the insight though Carlismo, yeah Tamiya's casting is hella nice. The amount of detail on the plastic is inspiring. My dad used to sell their stuff. He had a couple of large scale planes (selling at around the 120 mark) and geez, they looked awesome!

carlisimo
03-05-2007, 06:13
Glad to be of service =]. I came into 40k as a model plane guy, and thought the materials G-W used were weird (but way more durable, which is good).

Occulto
03-05-2007, 06:50
metal crusader sucks , its a complete bitch to assemble and the parts are normally warped and dont fit very well ,i say all vehicles should be plastic or resin . and the faster they sort out the damn fire prism the better !

The SM landspeeder demonstrates very clearly that GW plastic kits ain't immune from warping. :eyebrows:

THE CHIEF
03-05-2007, 08:21
The price won't go up. It only went up last year didn't it? It's not GW policy to sneakily bring out new versions of stuff and up the price. Prices change periodically with their 'price adjustments' and these focus on different areas of their range each year. It (hopefully) will not be going up again until they come full circle with their 'adjustments'.

*touches wood*

It's great news about the new kit actually happening though. Shame I already have three Crusaders for my Deathwing so don't really need any more. (unless I really get into Apocalypse!)

Edit - just realised my 'touches wood' comment could be misconstrued! lol