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Leunam
30-04-2007, 20:28
I've decided to build up a pre-heresy Marine army, either World Eaters or Death Guard. I know what color schemes to use, my concern really lies with unit choice.

I'm torn between using either the loyalist or chaos list. My first thought was to use the chaos list (sans Daemons) for Death Guard because of their natural resilience and True Grit. This I can take care of later though.

Using the loyalist list, I know to cut out the assault cannons. However, what other limits are there that would help make my World Eaters or Death Guard army properly themed (using either the loyalist or chaos books)?

Horus0001
30-04-2007, 20:40
whirlwinds and predator annihilators were post heresy designs as well.
I keep thinking multi meltas were also but they seem to be in the chaos codex.
Steer clear of landspeeder tyhpoons (people used them?) and crusader pattern land raiders also.

You could use traits to help theme it, without actually using the chaos book (which i feel you would have to avoid way to much within).

Leunam
30-04-2007, 20:49
You could use traits to help theme it, without actually using the chaos book (which i feel you would have to avoid way to much within).

Well with the Chaos 'dex all I really need to avoid are sorcerers, possibly Daemon weapons (some of the top Death Guard had their own Manreapers, though not all chaos-like), Daemons, and some wargear like blight grenades.

Some of the other suggestions look good though.

Sir_Turalyon
01-05-2007, 01:09
Chaos Dex is the best option, just avoid obviously demonic units (posessed, obliterators, deamons, defiler) and wargear that has no imperial equivalent (chaos armour = artificier, deamonic rune = adamantine mantle, deamonic mutation = terminator honours but damonic speed or deamon weapons have no equivalents).

With the loyalists... No infrantry multi-meltas or plasma cannons, no thunder hammers (they were all in in development during heresy, mounted on dreadnaughts but not small enough for infrantry). No scouts (organs were implanted and grown much faster). No Land Rider Crusaders, fluffwise no predators with lascannons (chaos list has them for some reason, through), no whirlwinds, possibly no vindicators.

Af of the doctrines, Death Guard should have Trust Your Battle Brothers (true grit), Cleanse and Purify (second special weapon instead of heavy weapon), Flesh Over Steel drawback (fits their background and post-heresy rules) and a minor drawback. Knowing Mortarion, minor drawback would be "We stand alone".

World Eaters need Take the Fight to Them (bolt pistols and chainswords in tactical squads) trait. They may also take No Mercy, No respite (Furious Charge), Cleanse and Purify or Uphold the Honour of the Emperor (6+ inv save and no cover saves - don't see them taking cover anyway). As drawbacks I suggest Eye to Eye (limits bikes and Land Speeders, major), Have Pride in your colours (No infiltration which suits World Eaters, minor) or both it you take two advantage from different traits.

Slaaneshi Slave
01-05-2007, 01:39
Vindicators were in use, but the design was lost, only to be found again later on.

bigred
01-05-2007, 02:54
Dont make it either/or choice of loyalist/traitor... do both! With a little bit of preplanning, some bits ordering, and some decent brushwork, you can build an army that can be used on "either side of the fence" with minimal mini swapouts and use whatever codex you feel like using that week.

Check out my:

Pre-heresy Death Guard Loyalists (http://belloflostsouls.blogspot.com/2006/12/heresy-era-death-guard.html)

Heresy-era Death Guard Traitors (http://belloflostsouls.blogspot.com/2006/12/heresy-era-traitor-death-guard.html)

All my Death Guard army posts (scroll down for pics) (http://belloflostsouls.blogspot.com/search/label/deathguard)

You will find much argument over exactly what weapons were in use, as there are many conflicting reports from as recently as the Horus Heresy art books to as far back as Adeptus Titanicus from the early 90s.

About the only things you can discount are the known "later inventions" such as the Predator Annihilator, Razorback, and Land Raider Crusader, MK VIII armour. Many of the other mentioned weapons may have been rare, or in early development, but are possibilities. The other note is that while some recent equipment variants have been designed since the heresy (see above), in general the 30th millennia was a time of GREATER technology much of which has been lost over time, not the other way around. Thus you see the legions using jetbike formations, Robots, and other such things.

-bigred

Leunam
01-05-2007, 03:03
And there it is!

That was the blog I was looking for, good to see you chimed in. Much thanks.

I'm going to be looking into how I could also form a World Eater list. I love the Blue/White color scheme and may just end up making a force combining the two legions. Thanks for all the input gentlemen.

Gutlord Grom
01-05-2007, 04:04
Actually, I believe that plasma weapons were more common, but meh.

Good Luck!

Dranthar
01-05-2007, 04:46
Actually, I believe that plasma weapons were more common, but meh.

I'm not sure how common they were, but plasma pistols and plasma guns (just not infantry-held plasma cannons) were definitely in use during the horus heresy. What's more if you look back at the 2nd ed. rules they were more unstable and dangerous to use, although I don't think you can really represent that any more than it is in 4th ed.

As bigred said, your best bet might be to build an army that would be compatible with both the Chaos and Loyalist marine codicies. Personally I'd prefer to use the loyalist codex (with Trust in your battle brothers/cleanse and purify as the traits), but either is fine really, so long as you stick to the wargear/units that would fit into the pre-heresy era.