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Voltaire
01-05-2007, 08:46
Sylass has put it up and now you can read it - Watchman Issue #2 is finally here;

http://www.warseer.com/the_watchman

Go have a look at the second issue and come and give us some feedback. Don't forget to vote in the poll too.

Jedi152
01-05-2007, 08:56
Looking good!

"Once upon a time, we suggested Jedi152 should do work on the Watchman. This was met by fierce resistance."

This is the best line in the whole thing! :D

I've noticed a few mistakes in my article where i forgot to put dates in and such, but that's life - ignore any ***'s.

Love the new layout - some excellent artwork and army showcases!

Duc Jehan
01-05-2007, 10:03
It seems to be excellent. I love the new layout!

EvC
01-05-2007, 10:34
I've noticed a few mistakes in my article where i forgot to put dates in and such, but that's life - ignore any ***'s.

Ha, same with me, and I did most the proofreading! I just realised where I added a little bit to Voltaire's monster article I wrote about a High Elf Commander when it should have been a Prince, but never mind! On the subject of High Elves, whoo at Harry's pic, looks great!

Plus the deployment map in my scenario was way too small, but it gets the point across regardless...

ashc
01-05-2007, 10:53
I am so happy this has come out looking the way it does - its awesome and blew my little trollsocks off!

I've also started a thread about the batreps debate in this very forum, if anyone wants to contribute.

Ash

DarthSte
01-05-2007, 11:12
Just whizzed through it, but it looks really good. Looking forward to the next one and keep up the fantastic work!

One_Second_of_Insanity
01-05-2007, 11:24
great improvement on issue 1, i am not a fantasy player but enjoy reading about it all the same. great new layout keep up the good work cant wait for the next one

superknijn
01-05-2007, 11:55
That's a huge amount of rumours, all done in a nice, humouristic style.

The rest of the magazine was also very nice, but I honestly expected a bit (a little bit) more.

rkunisch
01-05-2007, 12:00
I really like the new layout. It is a lot better than issue 1. The article mix is again about right. I read some of the articles and look forward to do so for the rest.

Thumps up for the Watchman team. :D

Have fun,

Rolf.

Aorek
01-05-2007, 14:07
The rest of the magazine was also very nice, but I honestly expected a bit (a little bit) more.

Well it is half the size of the first one but i dont mind, it prolly a good thing really less burn out for the contributers :D

Ill vote after i read it properly tomorrow. just scaned it so far, looks great the layout is great much easyier to read on the computer.

Bloodknight
01-05-2007, 14:13
I like it very much. The articles are well written and Harry´s article about the budget TK (as well as his rumour article) were brilliant. I also liked the short story and the Artworks.

His Master's Voice
01-05-2007, 14:21
Damn, my cover artwork looks like, well, crap:mad: . I thought the layout will be vertical.
Ahh, never mind, I'll do a horizontaly aligned cover for the next issue and anyway it was a good read so "pierwsze koty za ploty" like we say in Poland. BTW Voltaire, expect a PM from me on the subject of cover and interior artwork

Kordos
01-05-2007, 14:23
First let me say - YAY i can read this issue, thanks for taking into account the layout ideas put forth after issue one

Second, great read, thanks.

Shadowseer Crofty
01-05-2007, 16:55
Ash, I like the beastmen article, i'm planning on starting collecting them so it should be really helpful, once i got the armybook so my vague ideas of varius rules are made clear.
and voltaire, still no word on my submission, is there an email problem?

Voltaire
01-05-2007, 18:05
Crofty, send it to me again please :)

Arhalien
01-05-2007, 18:09
Wooo! I can open it!

I;ve only read Harry's rumour article so far and skimmed through the other articles in there, and it looks great :)
Lots of words in there too, unlike the other magazine! ;)

Sureshot05
01-05-2007, 18:28
Superb effort, was one of best reads I've had in a while. Also loved the style as well. Congratz to all those involved.

Edit: I will add that the idea of having 40K and Warhammer in the same magazine did appeal a lot to me, and especially when I was reading thought the rumour article it really made me think it was a pity to keep them seperate.

I also enjoyed the tactics article for beginners, I'm printing a few off and going to use it as a guide to those players who recently have started to see if it helps.

orangesm
01-05-2007, 19:58
Well done. I like the landscape format for reading on a computer screen (granted I have a wide screen). The articles are well written. Liked the inclusion of the the Historical Scenario - think it would be great to follow it up with a Battle Report of the Historical Scenario presented, possibly in the follow on issue.

A few spelling mistakes (or letters missing). A few small formatting errors with large photos - the column separating line crossing over the photos.

Overall great ezine.

Paulus
01-05-2007, 20:31
Just finished it, great work again, thanks to everyone involved your efforts are appreciated. :D

I must say that I like the new format, I found it to be much more professional looking & more importantly easier on the eye than the first issue. :D

skoogiz
01-05-2007, 21:22
Great work guys, the layout is awesome. Haven’t finished reading it yet but I love it so far. Keep up the good work.

Madfool2
01-05-2007, 21:51
For some crazied reason it makes me want a fantasy army.

I enjoyed reading it.

NakedFisherman
01-05-2007, 23:30
The flavor text in the rumour section isn't poorly-written, but it gets in the way too much. Consider bolding important pieces of information so people can glance over the article instead of having to dig through the flavor text.

I still think holding back news for the release of an e-zine is totally counterproductive to Warseer's primary function. There's a reason the only magazines that cover news are often distribiuted weekly, and even then most of their content is editorial.

StormCrow
02-05-2007, 01:18
What happened voltaire?! i sent in some writing and pictures and you said it would be in this issue for sure...:cries:


...good read though

proximity
02-05-2007, 06:06
I have indeed been fairly elusive! Have done two armies up for customers on the side of things as well as desperatly trying to get my own done for this years tournies, combined with alot of increased overtime from work and my wife being increasingly demanding (how dare she!).

I must say, you have done really good things with the ezine. I didnt really like the first one, but saw that it did have quite a bit of potential. The second one seems to be leaps ahead and I really enjoyed going through it today (my boss didnt enjoy me going through it on work time quite so much). I think the fact that content wise its enough to fill you, but leave you hanging out for the next one is perhaps the right balance (and infact if it was a normal magazine where every second or third page is a big ass advert, its probably the same length as a white dwarf).

Props to your work, and I cant wait to see where the next one goes from here :D!

AMBS
02-05-2007, 07:16
Well done guys, it's a marked improvement on the last issue, although you still have another issue to catch up with the quality of Firebase that was.

Harry
02-05-2007, 08:02
The flavor text in the rumour section isn't poorly-written, but it gets in the way too much. Consider bolding important pieces of information so people can glance over the article instead of having to dig through the flavor text.

I still think holding back news for the release of an e-zine is totally counterproductive to Warseer's primary function. There's a reason the only magazines that cover news are often distribiuted weekly, and even then most of their content is editorial.

The 40K article was greatly improved by the flavour text. It is a much better and more entertaining read because of it. When reduced to a list of facts it is not worthy of a place in a magazine. Check out the 40K thread. somebody has done just this. You can't tell me it is a better read.

I think Warseer has more going for it than just rumours. People come here everyday for all kinds orf reasons and some never read the rumours. (Allthough admitedly the majority do).

The fact is when I posted rumours on the boards there were so many individuals who were so quick to question your word or just straight call you a liar to the point I found it too unpleasant to share my rumours with the community in this way. I still see it happen on these boards every day. Some poor fellow gets torn to shreds just because he posts what he has heard. For a community that is so interested in rumours they do not do much to encourage people to post them. The 40K boards are worse than the Fantasy.

(Just set up a new account with zero posts and go and post a new rumour on 40k and see how it feels as the next six posters come out with all their best salt gags. Even though they know nothing, have heard nothing to contradict your rumour, they will still call you a liar).

Thankfully the Watchman provided me with somewhere else to indulge my love of rumours. I am not sure why there is a problem with 'holding back news' I could choose not to write it at all. Surely it is better late than not at all. Patience is a virtue. Good things come to those who wait. And all that Jazz. Is it not a little bit exciting getting two months worth of rumours all in one hit? (rather than drip feeding them onto the boards one at a time. Many would disappear from the front page in a week and get missed by many less frequent visitors.

I don't expect anyone to live by my leave and I sure as hell don't intend living my life by anybody elses. I will continue to post what I like, when I like, where I like. Not too fussed whether that is counter productive to Warseers primary function or the primary needs of any individual member.

Voltaire
02-05-2007, 08:11
Well done guys, it's a marked improvement on the last issue, although you still have another issue to catch up with the quality of Firebase that was.

Elaborate on that for us. I'm REALLY curious how we are still lagging behind Firebase.

Darkseer
02-05-2007, 09:01
I’m impressed by the improvement in overall style and content, but there’s still remove for improvement.

Voltaire
02-05-2007, 09:06
Again, elaborate. Without people telling what they think can be improved we cannot improve.

horizon
02-05-2007, 10:59
Lovely to see you took the Battelfleet Gothic Landscape format as featured in Warp Rift 11 as well.

Big. 10mb is much but it all looks good.

NakedFisherman
02-05-2007, 15:56
The 40K article was greatly improved by the flavour text. It is a much better and more entertaining read because of it. When reduced to a list of facts it is not worthy of a place in a magazine. Check out the 40K thread. somebody has done just this. You can't tell me it is a better read.

Yes, I can. It is a better read. There shouldn't be more filler text in a news article than there is in an average editorial, yet that's what's in the rumour article.


I think Warseer has more going for it than just rumours. People come here everyday for all kinds orf reasons and some never read the rumours. (Allthough admitedly the majority do).

When presenting rumours, it would be wisest to make their appearance timely. What people do for while visiting Warseer doesn't change the necessity for a proper communication medium.


Some poor fellow gets torn to shreds just because he posts what he has heard. For a community that is so interested in rumours they do not do much to encourage people to post them.

There's nothing wrong with skepticism.


Thankfully the Watchman provided me with somewhere else to indulge my love of rumours. I am not sure why there is a problem with 'holding back news' I could choose not to write it at all.

Alternatively, you could post them to the forum or at least not prevent others from posting them to the forum.


Is it not a little bit exciting getting two months worth of rumours all in one hit?...(rather than drip feeding them onto the boards one at a time. Many would disappear from the front page in a week and get missed by many less frequent visitors.)

Warseer would be less of a ghost town in the meantime.

Darkseer
02-05-2007, 16:46
Again, elaborate. Without people telling what they think can be improved we cannot improve.

Alright Lee. I believe that you’re not crazy enough!
For example there’s an article suggesting how to run a vampire counts royal rumble style game. Now if this was FIREBASE, we'd go the whole hog and run the battle aswell!
FIREBASE thrived on giving the gaming community something they wouldn't normally find on the net (or in White Dwarf), so we always pushed things as far as we could.
We'd also have a couple of articles roll into each other. So if someone had an amazing army or gaming board, it would be followed up by a game with that army on or that board, sometimes even both!

One more thing. The FIREBASE team always put their feedback thread in the General forum where the majority of its readers frequented, so we always got massive amounts of feedback, good and bad. That's how we developed. I don't think being tucked away on the scriptorium feedback is gonna yield the same results, or as much constructive criticism.

As always, I wish you the best of luck and who knows, even I may write something if I can find the time.

Harry
02-05-2007, 17:01
Well I see rumours as entertainment rather than news but lets not get into that.

Theres a difference between skepticism and rudeness. Its a line regularly crossed. The anonimity of the internet does nothing for good manners. People behave in a way they would not dream of behaving face to face.

I have explained why I don't post on the forum.
How on earth do you think I prevent others from posting on the forum.
I don't (nor can I imagine how I could) stop anyone else from posting rumours.

A ghost town? because I am not posting on the forum? Have you gone bonkers. What the hell did Warseer do before I came along for rumours. I am not the only person who posts rumours.
You think I have somehow sucked up all the rumours so that no one else has rumours to post. What are you talking about. You think I have some influence over every GW employee in the country so they don't share there rumours with anyone but me? You think that I have influence over everyone they tell there rumours to so they don't post on the forum. What on earth are you talking about??? You think if I stop writing rumours articles that warseer will be a wash with rumours?

I am not making warseer a ghost town. If people have stopped posting rumours it is because of the reception they see others get here.

EvC
02-05-2007, 17:20
To be fair, I'm sure I remember there's been at least one occasion where someone has been asked politely to not post something in the Rumours forum lest it spoilt what was in he first Watchman; however I don't think it's standard operating procedure or anything!

Your rumour article was great, and it gave a much more rumoury feel to it in the way it way phrased as opposed to an objective list of facts. It actually makes you feel like you're sitting there with some geezer who's got all this info and is sharing it with you personally and with humour this way...

jahorin
02-05-2007, 17:24
It is an improvement over the first issue, this one is readable!

But as other said there's room for improvement. For one the pictures, I think that you could include bigger picture. You should include to caption of the picture.

And also include some bookmark in the pdf or table of content to make it easier to read when don't read all the issue in one time.

The battle at Hel Feen is good, bu there could have been a battle report about just to show readers what i can feel like to play it.

There's no specialist game? What about blood bowl or mordhiem?

Harry
02-05-2007, 18:19
To be fair, I'm sure I remember there's been at least one occasion where someone has been asked politely to not post something in the Rumours forum lest it spoilt what was in he first Watchman; however I don't think it's standard operating procedure or anything!

Your rumour article was great, and it gave a much more rumoury feel to it in the way it way phrased as opposed to an objective list of facts. It actually makes you feel like you're sitting there with some geezer who's got all this info and is sharing it with you personally and with humour this way...

I can recall occaisions when I have joked with some of the regulars (such as Bregelad when he came up with the buildings and silashand with the White Dwarf anniversary mini) that I will have to find a new picture or 'there goes by big scoop' but at the same I have congratulated them on the find. I am not actually that bothered when something appears on the forum before it appears in the Watchman. It's just me having a bit of fun with other regular rumour posters.

On a couple of occaisions I have made posts in which I have suggested to people it was a bad idea to be posting stuff they were posting becuase I knew it was something that would get someone into trouble. (due to timing/sensative nature).

I have sometimes swapped rumours with people via PM and asked them to keep what I have told them to themselves rather than post it because it was already written into the article. (but these were my rumours I have asked them not to post).

I can think of only a couple of occaisions where I have asked posters not to post something because I want it for my rumours article. Any suggestion that a lack of rumours on the forum is down to me preventing others from posting is just plain stupid.

Paulus
02-05-2007, 19:31
Perhaps some people should remember that Harry does not have to write a rumours article for the Watchman & nor does he have to share his info with us on the forums.

People should maybe be consider how much reliable info they would get were Harry to decide no longer post on Warseer before complaining.

If Harry asks someone to keep the information he has gave them quiet then that is his perogative, if people are unhappy at being asked to keep some info quiet then maybe they shouldn't ask for the info in the first place.

Just my two penny's worth ;)

Back on topic though, as Harry has said The Watchman is about more than rumours.

There were some articles which didn't interest me remotely - but that's good thing as variety is the spice of life!

Bloodknight
02-05-2007, 19:53
Paulus got that right, I think.
Also it´s not as if Harry didn´t give out the odd snippet (;)) at times.

Harry
02-05-2007, 20:01
I have to say I have always answered any questions I can for anyone who asks either in a thread or through PM. I don't think anyone has once complained about being asked to keep it to themselves or to my knowledge subsequently posted it.

On Topic. @ Darkseer.

Was not one of the critisms of Firebase that each issue was to strongly 'themed'. That you beat some things to death when more variety would have been an improvement. I can see it both ways. I loved how chapter approved did one thing really well. Fire base had something of that going on. When you did it...it stayed done!

I think we were aiming for something different to try and put out a 'zine that had something for everyone. We wanted to have something for as many different armies as possible and if we had nothing for an army one time we would try to the next so that no matter which army (armies) a reader collected he would not feel left out.

As a quarterly 'zine if we devote three articles to one Army and only cover two or three armis in an issue as a result we will not get through all the fantasy armies in a long time. It will be like the wood elf players waiting for there army book all over again!

TKitch
02-05-2007, 20:45
There's no specialist game? What about blood bowl or mordhiem?

Workin on that one....

gorenut
02-05-2007, 21:23
It's totally awesome. I'm still going through it. Watchman has pretty much given me no reason to ever pick up a White Dwarf (admittedly, there was little reason for me to pick up any current WDs).

I'll definitely try to free up more time to submit more artwork. Information and content wise.. the ezine is sweet. Only from a layout/graphic design standpoint are there a few gripes, but nothing too major. I really wish I had more time to contribute to it.

NakedFisherman
02-05-2007, 22:00
Perhaps some people should remember that Harry does not have to write a rumours article for the Watchman & nor does he have to share his info with us on the forums.

Ignoring the 'take my ball and go home' attitude, there's still the issue of Destris' rumours which were held back.

Harry
02-05-2007, 22:17
Thats it? Thats what your in a sweat about?

I do not want to speak for Destris but when I contacted Destris he had a boat load of rumours that he had not posted and had no intention of posting for a number of reasons including many of the same reasons as I have already stated.

The chances are had I not contacted him the vast majority of these rumours would still not have been posted and would still be known only to Destris. I have in fact done the opposite of that which you acuse me of. rather than held back destris' rumours I have brought them forward, even persuaded him to share them with us.

At no point have I asked him not to post any rumours.

Not that I think it would make any difference if I did, he does not live by my leave nor do I hold any influence over him. He does as he pleases.

If you don't believe me PM him and ask him yourself.

On topic.

The vast majority of folks on the 40k thread seem to disagree with you and loved the entertaining style in which the article was written.
We call it "shabadabadooed". I am with you but who am I to fly in the face of public opinion.

Paulus
02-05-2007, 22:21
there's still the issue of Destris' rumours which were held back.

I'm not sure exactly what your talking about there NF but think we should let it rest now as were getting way off topic. ;)

This thread is supposed to be about thanking those who've worked on The Watchman & offering constructive criticism :)

Voltaire
02-05-2007, 22:37
Failure to return to topic will result in topic locking...

verydarkshadow
02-05-2007, 23:56
I like Harry's rumors.

Harry's rumors were good.

NakedFisherman
03-05-2007, 00:09
My criticism is pretty simple.

The best way to communicate is through a proper medium. You wouldn't meet a girl at a bar and send her a letter. You wouldn't send your boss a text message when you're ill. Likewise, using a quarterly magazine for news isn't an effective medium either.

There's some choices to make: increase the frequency of the publication, change the communication medium, change the presentation to be more apropos, or just ignore the criticism.

I'm expecting the latter, since even improving readability through selective bolding was resisted fiercely.

ashc
03-05-2007, 00:22
I'm a little concerned that there is much talk of rumours on here and not so much on the magazine itself.

Ash

Hena
03-05-2007, 04:49
I would comment on the watchman, but I'm not interested in fantasy battle side :).

But I liked the table of contents. It was clear on what can be found in each article. However I'd like very much if the names of the articles would also work as links, so that pressing on them would take you to that page. Firebase I think had this and it was rather useful in the pdf medium.

AMBS
03-05-2007, 06:05
I'm a little concerned that there is much talk of rumours on here and not so much on the magazine itself.

Ash

That's cos they were they probably the best part of the magazine

Darkseer
03-05-2007, 08:12
As a quarterly 'zine if we devote three articles to one Army and only cover two or three armis in an issue as a result we will not get through all the fantasy armies in a long time. It will be like the wood elf players waiting for there army book all over again!

So your creativity was stumped due to your fear of criticism. I see.

Is this also why this feedback thread isn't in the General Discussion forum?

Talis
03-05-2007, 09:15
Hey, who needs to post on the main forums when you can get all the snide remarks you need right here in scriptorium land?


On topic, I think The Watchman is becoming a really cool magazine. I was originally planning on reading only the rumours, but have ended up going back and reading the whole thing (several sections more than once). The formatting is really clean feeling and easy to read this time around. I especially like the section about the undead army painted in two days.
I liked the emphasis on bringing out the characters of the different writers and artists that worked to make the magazine. I think over time it would be really exciting, if you have the time, to throw a battle report with pictures in there every once in a while, especially a battle between two of you who work on the magazine, as it would be great fun to get to know the play styles of the various writers/artists, etc.... (This may be impossible, I don't know if any of you live near each other...)
Thanks for a very enjoyable read.

Harry
03-05-2007, 09:49
So your creativity was stumped due to your fear of criticism. I see.

Is this also why this feedback thread isn't in the General Discussion forum?

LOL I just think we set out with a different idea thats all. Not better not worse just different. Firebase was great. Hopefully The Watchman can be great aswell. But it does not have to be the same as Firebase to be great.

I don't think we will pull it off every time but our aim was to have a little bit of something for everybody. I don't think we have once had a conversation about critism or how it would go down. It was just what we thought we would try and do. We haven't really thunk about it that deeply we are just muddelling our way through.

I don't think there is any special reason why we shouldn't / haven't got a feedback thread in General. Its just where we did it. Again I am not sure it was thought about it that deeply. Its just what we did.

In fact the threads in both 40K rumours and fantasy rumours which are visited far more than General are proving to be feedback as well as discussion threads.

I can go and start another thread in general but it might seem like a bit of 'watchman overkill' if everywhere everybody looks they see a Watchman thread.

Honestly we are not bothered about critism we need all the help we can get! (I am sure we are not frightened of it).

If the watchman 2 is not evidence that we have listened to all the critisism, help and advice that was offered I don't know what is.
Hopefully it was an improvement on last time. keep the advice coming. hopefully we will keep getting better.

Hena
03-05-2007, 10:13
So your creativity was stumped due to your fear of criticism. I see.
Frankly when the Overwatch gets going I hope that there isn't that kind of "lets do one or two armies per issues" thing. I think it was a mistake and wouldn't want to see it repeated. It's much more enjoyable to read about multiple things than pore over an army that isn't that interesting to you. One or two articles can be skipped, but it's annoying to do so for nearly all mag.

Harry
03-05-2007, 10:36
There's some choices to make: increase the frequency of the publication, change the communication medium, change the presentation to be more apropos, or just ignore the criticism.

I'm expecting the latter, since even improving readability through selective bolding was resisted fiercely.

Tough choices.
It would be nice to do it more regularly but its all we can do now to get one out quarterly. (We have jobs/lives/wives!/children).
I have chosen this communication method for reasons already discussed.
The changes to the presentation of this article were made to make it more appropriate to a 'zine, to make it a more readable article. These changes were made after critisms last time that it read too much like a list.

This is comimg
This is coming
This is coming
And so on.....

I was trying to get away from this. As I have already said the vast majority of people seem to like the more entertaining read so I will be sticking with shabadoo for flavour.

I guess at the end of the day you can't please all the people all of the time.

The suggestion of selective bolding was not resisted fiercely (i was just trying to get my head around the other aligations).
I think it is a good suggestion and something I will certainly try it out next time to see how it looks.

Thanks for the input.

Voltaire
03-05-2007, 10:45
I think theres a bit of a need for me to actually step in and say something here...

NakedFisherman: The selective bolding was in the original version of the article, I removed it for the purposes of trying to make the article easier to format. Next time, when theres more time I'm sure it'll all be done. I agree about the issues revolving around Warseer and the Watchman.

I have requested this thread be moved to WFB General Discussion. The only reason it wasn't there originally is that I find it immensely painful to actually go into the General Discussion forums without thinking of the words 'cheese' or 'new army'. Having it here made more sense as ultimately it would be here, in the scriptorium feedback forum, that it would end up.

To do the magazine more frequently would require more contributors and more time - both of which we do not have. The strain on ones social and general life (which Darkseer can attest to) is quite a lot. If you were paying me to do the magazine I would produce one every month, but as it stands, the quarterly format is not going anywhere.

Many thanks to everybody else who has provided feedback so far and it is nice to know that you all enjoyed the magazine, especially after 'el disastero' in the format and layout of the first one. I'm going to be doing a bit of tweaking and seeing if we can make the layout even better for next issue and I will also be addressing pictures to try and make them a bit bigger for next time.

Keep it coming!

rkunisch
03-05-2007, 10:53
I think the Watchman was a good read.

There are some things that still can be improved. I think what this publication lacks is some flair. Don't get me wrong, the articles are very good and the current layout improved readability a lot (never thought about that landscape format is easier to read on computer myself). It is difficult to express what I think, but it has to do with colours, images and fonts. The Watchman is a magazine dedicated to the Warhammer Fantasy universe - still it looks totally different in style than for example the army books. It is too bright somehow. As I said, it is difficult to express what I feel about it (and it is not the contents). Maybe you can use that Watchman logo as light grey background on the pages. Unfortunately I am no artist but only an humble engineer.

Another point is the 40K rumour article. I play both systems and enjoyed reading the article, but it does not fit the Watchman. I understand the reasoning why it was done, but I still think it should have been left out. :)

About the rumour articles in general, I have to say that I enjoy articles much over simple lines of fact/rumours. I would like to read that kind of article again in future, please - even if some of them are repetitions of what we already heard in another thread. It is not the best medium to get news fast to the reader, but I could read that article while I enjoy a cup of coffee and feel good. :cool:

In the future I would wish for more articles in the Specialist Games area, but that may simply a problem of articles commited? What I really enjoyed (seldom enough to be honest) in a White Dwarf was when different Systems were combined (e.g. Warhammer and Warmaster). Maybe some army buildung "over the systems" would be worth an article?

Have fun,

Rolf.

Harry
03-05-2007, 11:13
We tried the background thing the first time It looked great but it resulted in too many problems. The plain background was a result of overwhelming advice that that was the only way to go. The look and feel Voltaire originally hoped to achieve has (sadly) been compromised to make it work.

The 40k Rumors were never part of the plan for The Watchman. They were put in as a last minute thing as i din't know what else to do with them. If it had just been my work i wouldn't have bothered but other people had worked hard on it at my request and I did not want there work to be wasted. so i suggested when Overwatch went south (Temporarily) That Voltaire bung them in at the end witha Here is a little something for our 40K friends to keep you going until Overwatch appears. He kindly agreed so the work put in would not be wasted.

This was a one off. The two articles were written seperately and will in future be published seperately. It will not happen again.
(Unless a desicion is made to unite The watchman and Overwatch. But even then I would hope that 'The word on the street' and 'Dispatches from the fringe' would remain as separate articles).

Karanthir
03-05-2007, 13:26
Well I'm not massively into fantasy at the moment, but I gave this a read anyway. I'd say it's a great Warhammer magazine with a good range and variety of articles to please most people. The lack of battle report was a little disappointing, but I didn't miss it that much. The rumours were interesting, although I can see both sides of the argument of why they were good/bad, I personally liked the format (as I liked the format of the entire magazine).

Ashc, I would like to say that I found your article on building a Beastmen army particularly insightful (I'm always interested in reading these sorts of articles), but I was wondering, how would you alter the army if you were making it to a 2000pt limit instead of 2250? (since 2000 is the more usual size for a fantasy army)

C-Coen
03-05-2007, 14:27
It's great. The artwork, the rumours, the conversions... the... ....
I haven't read all of it, but from what I read I really like it.
The WD should be a little more like that, IMO.

NakedFisherman
03-05-2007, 15:36
In terms of content, The Watchman had a few articles that were really fitting for the e-zine. The Tomb Kings article was excellent since the high number of pictures works best in a magazine format.

The interview with Albert Moreto Font was also excellent and was an article suggestion I made for Firebase. The interview was done professionally and focused on him as a painter and how he paints instead of the 'How many kids do you have?' and other silly questions that often appear in amateur interviews.

Any kind of article which even remotely could be copied and pasted from the forum should be avoided. Beggars can't be choosers, but quality should always take precedence over quanitity. I particularly dislike articles about building army lists. Quite frankly, they're one of the most boring things on this forum and they're even more boring in an e-zine.

My criticisms on article choices have nothing to do with how well or poorly-written they are. I'm just critiqueing articles which don't fit the format of an e-zine very well.

Here are some article types that I think do work well:

Battle reports: lots of pictures, pictures help describe what's going on in the text

Painting guides: an in-depth painting guide with complementary pictures

Interviews: these are short, simple, and timeless; their 'I-go-U-go' writing format makes them easy to read. Pictures add a human element.

Editorials: these present an opinion which ultimately gets people riled up; editorials which are rants should be avoided, and editorials which drone on about a non-sensitive topics are boring. Avoid common issues and derogatory editorials especially when dealing with expert subjects (GW pricing, business structure, kids in the hobby, cheese, etc. Editorials about a preponderance of NMM over conventional metallics, too-common spell lores, and gamer superstitions all work well)



...but I was wondering, how would you alter the army if you were making it to a 2000pt limit instead of 2250? (since 2000 is the more usual size for a fantasy army)

2250 is probably more common, actually.

larabic
03-05-2007, 16:18
It was ok, i actually read very little of it because it wasn't stuff i was interested in and it was between me and what i was interested in. Rumors and interviews is really what i was looking for i guess. I mean painting tips our nice and showing off the chaos dwary things was cool. But i could have done without the articles on the Beastmen,TK,Battle at Hel Fenn, and tourny report were Not that interesting.

I am very much a meat and potatoes kind of person on this. It's pretty much why i just glance at WD's nowadays and read a total of 10-15 pages if i am lucky. Just my 2 cents.

jahorin
03-05-2007, 16:37
It's the first time I agree with a comment made by NF.:eek:
I think that watchman need to be a nod higher than the forum. since the medium permits it, make battle report with formating, instead of just putting pictures under a paragraph of text like we see here in the battle report section.

And the painting guide is a nice idea. the one that was in firebase for the deathwing terminator is a good to place to look on how this kind of article. A last thing, a bit more artwork would be a really nice touch. like why put the beastmen artwork in the conclusion article instead of the tactica article, or maybe a couple of beastmen pictures.

Karanthir
03-05-2007, 18:30
2250 is probably more common, actually.


Fair enough. I'll admit I have been out of warhammer for a while, although reading the Watchmen has piqued my interest again.

I can see why people would dislike 'army builder' articles. For me personally they often help to give a feel for armies that I'd be interested in doing but have no previous experience with (Beastmen actually being quite a good example of this in fact).

Asrai Wraith
03-05-2007, 18:40
Took me 5 attempts to download but worth it in the end.

god octo
03-05-2007, 18:57
All the little pictures were very good, and the section on the artwork was interesting. I liked the new scenario- it was well thought out. Cheers guys!

Lardidar
03-05-2007, 20:18
I liked liked this a lot, I had awful trouble with the first one to the point that I was going to give this one a miss, glad I decided to take a look.

I loved the beastmen article, I have been thinking about them as my next army and your list included all the units I wanted to fit in mine.

We tend to play 2000pts atound here and all tournaments I have been to have been 2000pts but it was nice to see what can be done with that extra 250pts.

I have a few bits I did not like but they are just personnal dislikes (storys and made up rules) but I know others like those things and you can't please us all :)

All in all top notch,

Rider-Of-Kurnous
03-05-2007, 20:26
i thought it was great it was nice and short and the backround was better than the first one.

MarvyWill
03-05-2007, 22:07
Firstly, well done to all involved. The effort involved looks like it has been worth it and I hope that it's rewarding enough for you to continue to devote your free time.

I think you've realised what a fanzine can offer and mainly that is what something like White Dwarf cannot. It can be fun, it can talk about practical things like buying armies on the cheap, it can speculate and it can criticise.

I think that the net of contributors could be spread wider but that is of course dependent on volunteers. Painting, converting, tournament gaming, miniature reviews, fiction, scenarios, local gaming. All of these could have light thrown on them by 'experts' (ie One of us) as these topics dominate fora like this one.

Make it about why we love this hobby, how it pisses us off and how we could make more of it.

Thanks again, and looking forward to the next one.

Oh, and as for rumours...keep the buggers in suspense, it's more fun that way.

ZeroTwentythree
04-05-2007, 20:01
I've only had a chance to skim it over. I'll post more comments when I've had time to read it more thoroughly over the weekend, but just wanted to see that the mere mention of any Skaven rumors at all coupled with comments about scale consistency just got me all choked up and misty eyed. Thanks GW. :D

Dr. Who
05-05-2007, 00:20
:) Good contents. Much better presentation than the original issue 1. Thanks a bunch to all involved in creating it and its contents.

- Dr.

snurl
05-05-2007, 05:21
Your hard work is appreciated. Congratulations on a fine publication.

You could be selling it.

karnn
05-05-2007, 05:46
i'd like to see a battle report otherwise its great

Voltaire
05-05-2007, 05:53
A small reminder to all about the poll concerning battle reports in the scriptorium bit of the forum. Thanks.

- The Watchman staff

mrtn
05-05-2007, 10:02
#2 is a great improvement over #1, good job lads!

Here's some criticism, though...

*The Beastmen Army article is getting a lot of flak over at The Herdstone (http://z2.invisionfree.com/herdstone/index.php?showtopic=10115). Most people seems to think that this is a very bad army list, especially for a beginner list, and that it actually hurts the beastman cause and will scare away newbies who tries out this army list.

*The new format is much better!

*The pictures could be bigger. For example the pictures in the Albert interview is very small, and, more importantly, they're surrounded by acres of white, which could have been filled with lovely piccies instead. Especially as I suspect that his painting is quite nice, but I can't really say from those small pictures...

*There are some proof reading misses.

I enjoyed reading it, and look forward to #3. :)

Voltaire
05-05-2007, 11:13
Mrtn, if the Herdstone want to write a better list they know where the Watchman is and they can have our email address.

I see no sense in what those guys over at the Herdstone are doing actually. I've just read the responses to the article and nowhere does it claim;

a) Ashc is an expert on Beastmen and how they play
b) The army was competitive
c) That we wanted to push away people

The aim of the 'Army for all phases' article is to try and get armies that compete in every phase and to explain the logic behind the choices we make. That was done in this article, it was done with the Dark Elves and I assure you that I'm going to be giving the Tomb Kings a bloody good crack with it too. I'll even go into the nitty gritty of it if people want to be pedantic with me :)

ekxw
05-05-2007, 12:37
i will send you some articles, if you want one of my chaos army and abother of how paint blond beards.

Shadowseer Crofty
05-05-2007, 14:16
#2 is a great improvement over #1, good job lads!

Here's some criticism, though...

*The Beastmen Army article is getting a lot of flak over at The Herdstone (http://z2.invisionfree.com/herdstone/index.php?showtopic=10115). Most people seems to think that this is a very bad army list, especially for a beginner list, and that it actually hurts the beastman cause and will scare away newbies who tries out this army list.

It didnt scare away this newbie, it inspired me to find the half-built beastman box and get building again, when really I should be getting my eldar finished.


*The pictures could be bigger. For example the pictures in the Albert interview is very small, and, more importantly, they're surrounded by acres of white, which could have been filled with lovely piccies instead. Especially as I suspect that his painting is quite nice, but I can't really say from those small pictures...


seconded, though in my case i noticed it more with the wood elf article, I was looking closer at them. I tried zooming in, and it was more visible at 200%, but I could still not pick out some of the detail, and after 200% it got pixelated.

Shadowseer Crofty
05-05-2007, 14:18
There's no specialist game? What about blood bowl or mordhiem?

How much am I allowed to give away on my knowledge of this matter, Voltaire?

orangesm
05-05-2007, 16:07
How much am I allowed to give away on my knowledge of this matter, Voltaire?

I would hope this means there is an article planned for the next issue that is either Mordheim or Warmaster (possibly Blood Bowl). Actually seeing this comment may inspire me to write an article about starting Warmaster (why cause it is even more of a game of maneuver than Warhammer!)

Voltaire
05-05-2007, 18:00
Theres a little bit of it coming. Only a little ;)

EvC
05-05-2007, 18:29
*There are some proof reading misses.

I'd like to think that most of them are in the titles missing apostrophes (Which I didn't get the chance to alter) and the extra stuff in Harry's rumour article (I thought there was a lot to it when I first read it, but he kept adding more after the first edit, a good thing for sure!)... plus we didn't want to change the English of the guys being interviewed.

Shadowseer Crofty
05-05-2007, 20:27
Theres a little bit of it coming. Only a little ;)

so I guess I'm keeping schtum for the mo'

Voltaire
05-05-2007, 20:31
@ Shadowseer Crofty

See no evil, hear no evil...

smok
05-05-2007, 20:48
I liked the change in layout - but the most important factor is I can switch pages at a reasonable speed!
Keep it up,
Richard

Shadowseer Crofty
05-05-2007, 20:49
See no evil, hear no evil...

...speak no evil. so I'll shut up.

Lardidar
05-05-2007, 21:03
Hey,

I read the beastmen article and thought what the hell I'll give them a go.

I had to re-jig the list a little to fit it in 2k but I'm happy with it, the guys over at the Herdstone seem to be bashing the hell out of it but that don't bother me too much.

One of them on Herdstone even says you are trying to push us into buying useless minis .... let ash know that WD will want to give him a job :)

I say let them whine and bitch. I had a look at there lists section and most of them seem to be very similar, they even have the popular GT lists stickied ... I think its clear that all they want to do is win but in your article I took it as an army that can do a bit of something in each phase of the game, so you never actually waste one bit of your turn.

Voltaire
05-05-2007, 21:56
Your comment is exactly the sort of thing we wanted to come out of these articles Lardidar. The people at the Herdstore have some real issues if they want to complain as much as they have without trying to even establish contact with us. If YOU are happy with the list then you shouldn't care about what everyone else says, just have fun.

ashc
05-05-2007, 22:45
Well seems i have generated some discussion; thanks for the link mrtn.

I think I should start with saying that at no point are the army for all phases articles stated as being the most 'optimal' way to play armies nor are they marked as 'expert' tacticas. If anything, the A4AP Articles are designed for new players to get to grips with armies they perhaps wouldn't consider, or armies designed in a different way to the norm and to be honest, bland builds I often see. Perhaps this is a problem Watchman could avoid in the future; a little descriptor at the start of the article explaining the aims of the A4AP articles as being a starting point for players of new armies who really want to enjoy the game and have fun: these are NOT armies designed to be 'teh roxxorz' in tournaments.

I have been in the 'GW hobby' for over 10 years and have now seen 3 editions of fantasy, so i consider myself well versed in pretty much all the armies out there, either having collected them, friends who collected them, or playing many games over the years. I'm afraid an 'agree to disagree' argument has to be made with the chaps at the Herdstone; I've seen some awful beasts armies and i have seen some really good ones. I have seen competitive army lists and encounter them all the time, but, and i think this is the most important thing that has caused grief with the Herdstone players: I am NOT a tournament or power gamer. I have been in this hobby too long to fret and curse over not winning games, and sacrificing my own enjoyment of a wargame just to make myself win. The list i built is fun, friendly, uses a nice range of models from the collection and i hope acts more importantly as an inspiration for others, and that people don't *just* see a list. I'm really glad to see that there are others out there (karanthir, lardidar, thanks!) who really enjoyed the list and are looking at it and have even used it - good on you and I hope it leads on to bigger things. For those who really want advanced tacticas and tournament army list discussion then please don't just sit on your boards and moan in discontent; but instead write entertaining articles and send them in!

thanks

Ash

ninja edit: @Lardidar, if WD offered me a job there at least I could put some things into motion to bring that magazine back in to line with what i think it should be. It would make things like Overwatch and Watchman superfluous as the GW community could have one great mag to rally around as opposed to rallying against!

Lardidar
06-05-2007, 00:22
Well I blame you ash for my splurge in GW the other day, I read your article on Wednesday night.

Go to work happy as anything on Thursday morning, pop into GW in the afternoon and buy both metal beastlords, both bray shamans, 3 Dragon ogres and a beast herd box.

I will play some 500pts this week and expand the army from there but your article made me think a lot about an army that had never tempted me before.

So thanks for the article but my bank balance could have done without the splurge :)

Cpt_NinjaPants
06-05-2007, 00:44
Pretty good, i loved the TK. However, i hope in future Watchmen you dedicate a entire acrticle on 1 armies tactics, and do that untill you have done all the armies. Oh and more piccies!!