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View Full Version : Just a thought: Chaos books



Holy Crap! Manticores!
02-05-2007, 19:35
read this in a recent thread.
A GW friend of mine has told me the follwing Chaos books will be getting released late this year.

1. Mortal
2. Beasts (maybe just keeping current book)
3. Daemons
4. Chaos Dwarves!

This is just at the planning stage so is subject to change. The Mortal/Daemon split is pretty likely he said. The Chaos Dwarf thing may just be an idea that is floating around the Studio as a topic for discussion down the pub.Maybe it's just me talking, but aside from making money off of three or four separate books, wouldn't it just make more sense to release The Really Big-A$$ Book of Chaos under one cover.

I've been writing up a lot of mixed Chaos lists lately, and all the book-switching is making my head spin, especially as Beasts and Hordes have totally different layouts. I would much rather spend $40 for one RBABoC and have everything in one place than the current situation.

/rant

TheWarSmith
02-05-2007, 20:30
Too bad those rumours are TOTALLY unfounded and untrue. Was he just a staff member at a regular store? Often we at warseer know about 5x as much as those people do.

rockforchumps
02-05-2007, 21:54
Honestly, Chaos is eating up too many armies, chewing them, and making them one. Beastmen would be perfectly fine as a standalone army, considering that they really are more forest inhabitants than of the chaos wastes. Yes, chaos mutated their ancestors to create them, but chaos has affected a lot of things.

Are Dark Elves going to end up "Elves of Chaos"? I mean, come on, this needs to be stopped.

Häxjägare
02-05-2007, 22:14
Honestly, Chaos is eating up too many armies, chewing them, and making them one. Beastmen would be perfectly fine as a standalone army, considering that they really are more forest inhabitants than of the chaos wastes. Yes, chaos mutated their ancestors to create them, but chaos has affected a lot of things.

Are Dark Elves going to end up "Elves of Chaos"? I mean, come on, this needs to be stopped.

But Beastmen/"Chaos" has always been fighting on the same side and been an army togheter. Adding Chaos dwarfs is wrong, I agree with ya there but splitting beasts into a standalone army after all this time feels kinda silly. Chaos is the big antagonist of the good guys Warhammer world and variation and a number of lists that you can combine/run as standalone is pretty neat in my eyes.

TheWarSmith
03-05-2007, 03:07
You guys are picking apart 100% false rumour.

It's really up in the air how daemon/beast/mortal will flesh together/separately in their next book, but that's not for maybe 3 more years.

rockforchumps
03-05-2007, 03:23
Who cares? Throwing ideas out there is fun bro.

And yes, I guess it might be strange to separate them, but... They are very different. The herds, the places they live. Obviously they are on the same side, but when you line up good vs bad, the High Elves will side with the Empire, yet that doesn't make them the same army.

Aorek
03-05-2007, 09:28
Honestly, Chaos is eating up too many armies, chewing them, and making them one. Beastmen would be perfectly fine as a standalone army, considering that they really are more forest inhabitants than of the chaos wastes. Yes, chaos mutated their ancestors to create them, but chaos has affected a lot of things.

Are Dark Elves going to end up "Elves of Chaos"? I mean, come on, this needs to be stopped.

Eating up armies? do you even know the history of the armies being talked about?

Choas was originally one list which included beastmen, chaos warriors, knights, centaurs, dragon ogres, minotaurs, and various demons. What has happened over the years is choas has been split into three seperate armies.

Mortals which covers the chaos warriors and knights was expanded with maruders.

Beasts where expanded from straight beastmen to all the diffrent gors plus some of the choas montrosties centaurs (renamed centigors), dragon ogres, and minotaurs. Thier forest focus was also revisioned at this point, they always sort of had it but not with nearly as rich background material.

Demons are much roumored to be getting thier own choas book because of thier stand alone army list from the Storm of Chaos. It may not happen but if it does would be great for all those that have demonic legion armies which currently no tournament support.

Choas dwarfs are a very old, badly named army that has been updated in years and likely will be done last out of all new army books. They not related to choas at all really. Like you say about the empire and the elves they'll fight to gether but thier not the same army.

So basically choas will end up with maybe 3 books (same say it will remain the current 2) and for the slight inconveineice we'll get 3 times the background and unit options of most other armies as well as the option to focus on just one segment of choas and have it be a wholy viable army.

All the other armies wish they got this sort of attention!

Fredrik
03-05-2007, 14:43
I agree with Aorek, and i started to play chaos back when you got it all in one army and it was that feeling i fell for (that they where rediciously unbalanced i found out after i started to play).

I was really upset when they split out beastmen as the "fodder" from chaos, and i was equally glad when they once agina are a part of the army.

I really hope that Chaos will have the options of mortal beastmen and demons, to keep teh Chaotic feeling about them. I too would gladly buy a more expensive book that covers them all to get away from changing books all the time.

Martyr
03-05-2007, 19:07
Honestly, Chaos is eating up too many armies, chewing them, and making them one. Beastmen would be perfectly fine as a standalone army, considering that they really are more forest inhabitants than of the chaos wastes. Yes, chaos mutated their ancestors to create them, but chaos has affected a lot of things.

Are Dark Elves going to end up "Elves of Chaos"? I mean, come on, this needs to be stopped.

First of all, they pretty much ARE a stand alone army. They have their own army book. They can be used in conjunction with Hordes of Chaos and vice versa, but the book seperated them to be used as an army by themselves.

If you read your lore you will also see that beastmen are made from beasts and humans alike. Chaos effects everyone and everything. If babies are found to have mutations, not abnormalities such as a cleft lip or deformed head or hand, but mutations like a bulls head, horns, a bird's leg... these babies are given to the witch hunters to be killed. You can imagine that a child made and born from the love of their parents, their parents aren't too willing to hand their child over to the witch hunters, some leave their babies in the woods to be taken by the beastmen and "cared" for by them. This is a fate more cruel than a witch hunters burning, because you will more than likely have to kill your own child later on when his tribe raids your village.

What I have done is photo copied everything but the fluff of my Hordes and Beast books, this includes the special rules and army lists of both and put them in a 3 ring binder. I can't tell you how much easier this makes building a chaos army.

Horus84
03-05-2007, 19:29
Well in the past they have been all one book - last one I remeber was for 5th ed army book which consited of a hugy book and all the chaos magic cards, however that was expensive £40-50 I remember.

Personally I prefer them as seperate books as if someone wants to play just one side of chaos then it is cheaper at £12 a book. If they put them together then they would probablly charge around £24 anyway. The other side of the coin is that, if they produced it as a single book then the models would suffer due to have half the time to spend on the models due to updating two ranges at once - again I would rather that they do them seperatly and spend the time on them. Also the army play style's are two completly different things also (same thing with Vampire/Tomb King books)

I don't see GW wanting to return to a single Chaos book again. I would hazard a guess that:
1. Hordes of Chaos will stay concentrating on Warriors and Maurders. Hopefully we will see the return of the maurder characters so all maurder armies can be done - maybe chucking in the Hellcannon*
2. Hordes of Chaos will hopfully flesh out demon choices and possible have it so demonic legions can be made
3. Beast of chaos will concentrate on them with hopefully the inclusion of the demon entries to make it slightly less cross referencing.

As for Chaos Dwarfs the design team have said they will return and that it is just a matter of time (mostly like around 2009-10).

For the record Chaos Dwarfs have been corrupted by chao they worship one of the minor Gods Hashut. Dark Elves are a different kettle of fish, they don't worship chaos. They are just the elves that lost the elf civil war and are just plain evil - but yes Witch Elves do Worship Khaine (a minor Chaos God) but it is very much disliked by the Witch King and really just tolorates them as he ows them a little favour. Only a select minority of Witch Elves have fallen to Slannessh - and if found out they are killed without a seconded thought.

* I would like to see Maurader Cheiften and Shamans brought in and Chaos Sorceeres be toned down with respect to combat as the background usually portrays them as generally weaker compared to even a Chaos Warrior - even tzeench low level sorcerrers.

black-francis
03-05-2007, 19:34
from my experience, chaos dwarfs are part of Chaos in name only. Part of the beauty of chaos and the chaos god is that there are flat out worshippers, and some less obvious minions, which leaves a little bit to the imagination (for example, Dark Elves. Do the worship Khorne? we don't know!).

khorne666
03-05-2007, 19:41
Actually as far as the cult of slaanesh goes they are now very likely to end up in the same position as the cult of khaine when the DE get redone as they are now owed by malekith and more directly Morathi in a very similar way due to the fluff for the cults SoC army list. Just a comment.

druchii7
03-05-2007, 20:24
Indeed I think that Chaos is too Chaotic.

It's not a joke.

That's the problem with releasing armys little by little. let me explain.

beastmen army is good (some little wrong points, but good book)

chaos hordes are a bit more problematic. Gav thorpe, IMHO, hasn't done a good job with this book (but not as bad as with DE or sixth dwarfs).

I understand that when you afford a common army (empire, dwarf, high elves...) it's easier to manage than chaos, which doesn't have a normal list development. IMHO he became crazy with that too big number of units and the result is terrible: the very most overpowered cavalrys are basic and unlimited (I mean khorne ones, particularly chosen ones). This book is already a bit untidily done.

the worst problem comes when you add the hell cannon and the list mixing (mixing beasts whith hordes). then you have destroyed two main balances... the power balance and the stetic balance (sorry, but chaos warriors don't suit beastmen)

black-francis
03-05-2007, 20:26
i think that the three armies were meant to be mixed and matched, like the ones featured in the beastman book, but what we got in response to this (or what i got at least) were basically beastman armies with hellcannons.
No sir, i dont like it.

rockforchumps
07-05-2007, 22:09
Eating up armies? do you even know the history of the armies being talked about?

Choas was originally one list which included beastmen, chaos warriors, knights, centaurs, dragon ogres, minotaurs, and various demons. What has happened over the years is choas has been split into three seperate armies.

Im not 30 years old bro. lol.

Valens
08-05-2007, 22:57
i think that the three armies were meant to be mixed and matched, like the ones featured in the beastman book, but what we got in response to this (or what i got at least) were basically beastman armies with hellcannons.
No sir, i dont like it.

Now that's pretty lame actually. WTH is that beastman lord doing with that Hellcannon at the herdstone anyway? Park it in a meadow and put up a 'do not touch' sign?:wtf: What most makes sense if they do make seperate books, but you can combine them like now, is some sort of animosity rule like orcs have; after all they are chaos and are constantly fighting each other.

Aorek
09-05-2007, 03:01
Im not 30 years old bro. lol.

Nor am I lol. Fact is though marauderers are the new guys on block beastmen served chaos warriors first.


Now that's pretty lame actually. WTH is that beastman lord doing with that Hellcannon at the herdstone anyway? Park it in a meadow and put up a 'do not touch' sign?:wtf: What most makes sense if they do make seperate books, but you can combine them like now, is some sort of animosity rule like orcs have; after all they are chaos and are constantly fighting each other.

Beastmen used to use the orcs animosity rule now they have thier own more suitable version. Recycling special rules will just make armies too similar.

Although Im with you on the hell cannon frankly i think thier wrong for horde armies not juswt beasts. The one over arching theme of choas armies has for a long time been no shooting. Choas dwarfs getting redone should actually fix this and get the evil stunties and thier diabolic war machines away from the real choas worshippers.

KingGato
09-05-2007, 04:43
Technically Chaos Dwarves are "Chaos" in more than just name, as has been said a couple times. They do worship Hashut, a Chaos God after all. Well, a Chaos something. Whatever the hell Hashut actually was, sufficed to say it was chaotic-y.

But, yeah, beyond that the certainly don't fit together with Beasts/Mortals/Daemons the way those three go together. Completely seperate army, if anything at all.