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E-Dog
04-05-2007, 16:29
I myself will play unpainted stuff, but I can also feild 3000pts. fully painted. Do you get PO'd at people who don't or won't paint?

ZeroTwentythree
04-05-2007, 16:35
Only if they're not putting forth an effort.

Everyone starts from scratch at some point (well, unless you've got the fortune to pick up a fully painted army right away). I'm usually pretty understanding with people just starting their army.

However it's annoying playing someone who never puts forth an effort, and never makes any progress. That's multiplied when the figures aren't assembled, aren't glued to the bases, or don't even have any bases.


The whole appearance of the game changes drastically with painted figures. The "look" of the game is what has drawn many of us into miniatures gaming, otherwise we could just play board games or computer games. It's not like they have to be Golden Daemon quality or anything, but just a basic paintjob makes a world of difference. (I'd rather play an army fully painted with basic colors than one that's got three figures painted to a GD standard and the rest bare metal/plastic.)

Onisuzume
04-05-2007, 16:44
Well, I don't really dislike people who don't paint there armies, I do prefer to play against painted armies.
As for the other players not doing any effort to paint; it makes me feel superiour to them. :p

Arhalien
04-05-2007, 16:45
I prefer painted armies, simply because it;s nice to see how other peoplke have painted their models. However, if someone is new then I have no problem with unpainted models, although if they aren;t making an effort to paint them, well.... ;)

Dervos
04-05-2007, 16:48
If both armies are painted its seems more life like and vivid. Playing against a army without painting feels like there is a void or a chasm between the two players and seems hard to fill. Painted armies are always nice to see, but it is understandable that someone could have a unpainted army.

EvC
04-05-2007, 17:08
I prefer painted armies, simply because it;s nice to see how other peoplke have painted their models. However, if someone is new then I have no problem with unpainted models, although if they aren;t making an effort to paint them, well.... ;)

Yeah, that's pretty much the same as how I feel.

Personally when I read battle reports and see people posting pictures of completely unpainted or unassembled units I just think, "Why bother?"... but that doesn't mean I wouldn't enjoy the game itself.

Hrogoff the Destructor
04-05-2007, 17:14
I prefer to face painted armies.

I will face unpainted armies, but I like to at least know that the player is at least trying to put forth an effort to get their army done. However, this is also coming from someone who has about two-hundred of models to paint, and hasn't done one in about six months. :eyebrows:

A majority of my chaos 40k army is painted at least.

the1stpip
04-05-2007, 17:16
I don't like fielding unpainted armies (although I jave been known to occasionally), but I have no problems playing against an unpainted army.

But seeing two nicely painted armies slugging it out is a wonderful sight...

MadJackMcJack
04-05-2007, 17:45
Indifferent really. But at the end of the day, I'm not gonna stop a guy using a new army straight away just because it's unpainted. Plus it's kinda cool to see the army's paint job at different stages.

Caligula
04-05-2007, 20:25
I definately prefer to play with and against painted armies. There's nothing quite like two fully painted and nice-looking forces doing battle on a well made gaming table. It's just really what this hobby is all about to me. I mean, I suppose it's okay to play with unpainted units for a while, but eventually I think they should be painted up. It just "feels" right.

That said, I'm currently playing with unpainted models. My Empire army is in the first stages of creation, and so I've yet to get it painted up. However, I won't stand for this too long, and plan on having the entire army painted and completed in the next little while. It's the right thing to do:)

Caligula
04-05-2007, 20:29
Oh, and when it comes to playing un-assembled models and units, well...I generally won't do it myself. The only exception would be a unit that has shields that has yet to be unpainted, as I typically leave the shields off until the rest of the model has been painted. At least in that case the models are mostly put together.

Like EvC said, in such cases, "what's the point?". I mean...it's not even really a model.

Darnok
04-05-2007, 20:35
I need AGES to paint stuff. And I mean it. I'm in the hobby for over ten years, and I don't have a single fully painted army, with something like 20000 points of stuff (WHF & WH40K) unpainted somewhere.

Still I prefer to have painted minis on the table. It just adds so much more to the game. At the moment I just feel bad every time I have to play with unpainted miniatueres, so that's some kind of motivation. But it's never enough...

Cpt_NinjaPants
04-05-2007, 20:37
I can/have play agianst empty bases, so a painted/unpainted army doesn't bother me.

However, i do like playing agianst painted armies.

lilljonas
04-05-2007, 21:03
When I was a kid, we all played with extremely heavily proxied armies, all of them more or less unpainted. It was still fun. However, now I am carefully painting my first complete army, and I am waiting with fielding it until I can field an entire painted army. We'll see if it's better or not. :)

And as for the opponent, I think I care more about what shape my army is in than his/her. Of course, a well painted army is always nicer than a lump of metal that you have to closely scrutinize to see what they really are.

Gaebriel
04-05-2007, 21:12
I'm already happy when there are no proxies or placeholders on the table.

Luthor
04-05-2007, 21:26
It really doesn't matter to me, as my whole time playing LOTR was with unpainted armies (Well about 25% of it was painted.) For me it was just hard to find the time to paint, but I guess come summer I will have lots more time to get more models painted.

Right now I am working on an Orc and Ork army, so I suppose a lot of my models will be unpainted for a while.

-Luthor

black-francis
04-05-2007, 21:45
at this point, there is only one unpainted army in our group. we play him because we have so few people, but its definately more fun to play with two fully painted armies.

Tutore
04-05-2007, 21:51
I hate to play with unpainted models, I prefer avoiding a unit if I didn't have the time to paint it already. On the other hand, I'm mostly tolerant on unpainted enemy armies, I really don't bother much.

black-francis
04-05-2007, 22:02
theres no better feeling than finishing an army, ill you what.

Voltaire
04-05-2007, 22:05
I am currently working on a project where I will not field it until painted - My Orc army may not see action for another month but I'd rather lovingly paint it so I can lose with grace and look good with it...

Playing unpainted armies doesnt bother me in the slightest.

Lord Inquisitor
04-05-2007, 22:06
There's a real improvment in the game when using two painted armies over a proper board.

That said, I very rarely have had a whole army painted, sad to say. That's my resolution for the summer: get a 40K and a Fantasy army painted and finished.

starlight
04-05-2007, 22:14
It all comes down to effort. Some effort each time is good. No effort at all is bad.

KingGato
04-05-2007, 22:40
I always prefer to see two painted armies, but the fact remains that painting a full army can take a very long time and, during that time, the player will presumably want to play. Though it goes without saying that the dice tend to favor the more-painted army.

larabic
04-05-2007, 23:24
Unpainted troops at my gamming store used to be T1 ...now we just highly discourage it and you WILL be made fun of in some reguards if you arent even trying or hasnot been touched for weeks.

For a tourny or campaign I would insist that everything be painted...i got sick after a saw a Warmachine army that won a tourny in their magazine that was all pewter still...not even a undercoat!?!?! And they let him win and be featured in a mag! Talk about reinforcing negative behavior!

The tourny's i do attend if they field unpainted or unprimmed models i just give them a 0 for appearence. I would much rather play then paint in this hobby but i still do it!

black-francis
04-05-2007, 23:38
Unpainted troops at my gamming store used to be T1

that puts a fire under 'em to pick up a brush doesnt it larabic?

@KingGato: i agree with that. I dont mind if a player has an unpainted army, because usually they're doing one unit at a time.
I dont make too much fun if they are at least trying.

We're actually more apt to make fun of painted models rather than unpainted ones. there are alot of people who play this game, and a great deal of them cant paint.

larabic
05-05-2007, 01:32
that puts a fire under 'em to pick up a brush doesnt it larabic?



Yup! T1 Giants is easy pickins!

Vodevil
05-05-2007, 01:45
Love em' I really don't feel the need to paint because I have better things to do with my time. I say let people play with what works for them, I wouldn't criticize someone for not putting effort into their army. Not everyone is a hardcore player who takes pride in their army, some of us just like to play a game and BS.

black-francis
05-05-2007, 02:07
Yup! T1 Giants is easy pickins!

LOLZ! my friend TauKid played a totally unpainted Ogre Kingdoms army. we shoudl have sent him your way

VampireOfKhorne
05-05-2007, 03:37
Though I agree that 2 painted armies certainly looks much better, I have no problem at all playing against unpainted armies.

Especially when it comes to new gamers, I'd much rather play a 2k game where 90% of his army is empty bases, then a 200 point game against a fully painted army.

Lander
05-05-2007, 03:46
Painted armys preferred of course! A good tabletop aswell!

Finnigan2004
05-05-2007, 04:15
I really prefer painted when fielding my own armies. When it comes to my opponent's armies though, I don't really care much. I'll have just as much fun whether they're all finished or not. I realize that it takes a long time to paint a hundred models, and that painting is not for everyone.

snurl
05-05-2007, 04:39
I only use figures that are painted, but i don't mind if my opponents figures aren't.

Games do look great when everything is painted.

karnn
05-05-2007, 04:45
what really sucks is when your a bad painted and people who are good keep abusing you saying paint your army and when you paint it and it sucks bag it and say how crap it is...

Lucky alot of the people i fight dnt mind if i have my army painted or not. But my friend is helping me paint now and he is really good so my army actualy looks pretty darn good now

spikedog
05-05-2007, 06:18
This is kind of a bit of a pointless thread as I 90% of people will say the same thing but so shall I!

Would much prefer to play against a fully painted army but failing that I would play against an unpainted army as long as my opponent was trying to paint stuff.

Eniac
05-05-2007, 10:24
I hate playing against unpainted figures. WHy?

1: I bust my ass making my army look as nice as possible so my opponent doesn't have to look at rows of grey plastic.

2: People with unpainted armies tend to (in my experience) be cheese monsters who will find out they are playing against my army and quickly run out and buy that special unit that will enable him to kick my ass faster.

3: I have very little time to paint so it shows effort and dedication if a gamer takes what free time he does have to make the army uniquely HIS. Its not about being an eavy metal showcase army, its about not fielding an "army" of grey and silver toys.

MadJackMcJack
05-05-2007, 11:28
Unpainted troops at my gamming store used to be T1

What the hell does that mean?

lilljonas
05-05-2007, 11:32
What the hell does that mean?

Toughness one. Your models get punished for your lack of painting, and die like flies. Especially evil against elite armies. :evilgrin:

larabic
05-05-2007, 12:47
what really sucks is when your a bad painted and people who are good keep abusing you saying paint your army and when you paint it and it sucks bag it and say how crap it is...



I know everyone isnt a painter or has the skill but if you dont even try how will you ever get better? We don't make fun of people whos army isnt painted that well, we make fun of people who dont even bother trying.

In my opinion anything looks better then the all pewter or all night strike (black primered) armies.

Vodevil
05-05-2007, 12:56
I hate playing against unpainted figures. WHy?

1: I bust my ass making my army look as nice as possible so my opponent doesn't have to look at rows of grey plastic.

2: People with unpainted armies tend to (in my experience) be cheese monsters who will find out they are playing against my army and quickly run out and buy that special unit that will enable him to kick my ass faster.

3: I have very little time to paint so it shows effort and dedication if a gamer takes what free time he does have to make the army uniquely HIS. Its not about being an eavy metal showcase army, its about not fielding an "army" of grey and silver toys.

I respect that, I mean your dedication to the game is cool and all.

If you don't try to paint it does show that you aren't really dedicated to the game, so what's the big deal? I mean I'm not dedicated, ok shouldn't I still be able to enjoy a game without being made fun of or having T1 models? I'm just sayin.

yankeeboy
05-05-2007, 13:04
I won't play unpainted armies or against unpainted armies. I will play against an army that has a new unit that isn't painted, for example, but I fully expect to see it painted if I play that opponent again.

But as for 100% assembled, but unpainted armies, I simply won't play them.

Bortus
05-05-2007, 13:05
A player who does not paint his army is an abomination of evil and should be looked upon with extreme prejudice! Heh, heh! .......well,....... maybe not that bad eh? Actually as long as there is an effort to paint the darned things who cares who has the better painted army? At least that's our attitude here.

DarkLord Of Naggaroth
05-05-2007, 13:08
I never play with any unpainted dudes what so ever. It would never even cross my mind to send even a near completed fig on the field. It's just not right, it makes the game look horrible and cheep.
and it's lazy

Gaebriel
05-05-2007, 13:16
... If you don't try to paint it does show that you aren't really dedicated to the game, so what's the big deal? I mean I'm not dedicated, ok shouldn't I still be able to enjoy a game without being made fun of or having T1 models? I'm just sayin.
A thesis :

It possibly shows one's not in the right game.

By what I mean - why bother choosing a game that relies on huge numbers of playing pieces that need working on them, when one could easily play a number of games that come out of a box?

At least that's a question I kept asking myself over the last year...

I like painted miniatures the same way as the next guy, the question is, why would I start this hobby if I don't like to paint (or at least do paint). People are surely not in it for the (mediocre) game system only. Not for the competition/tournament aspect only. For the market-presence, availability perhaps? Surely not for the affordability.

So what is the motivation of people stopping their efforts after glueing, or sadly, after buying?

Maybe a new question to beef up this thread, before it becomes an argument between die hard followers of the extreme viewpoints as did all the others ;)

Vodevil
05-05-2007, 13:28
A thesis :

It possibly shows one's not in the right game.

By what I mean - why bother choosing a game that relies on huge numbers of playing pieces that need working on them, when one could easily play a number of games that come out of a box?

At least that's a question I kept asking myself over the last year...

I like painted miniatures the same way as the next guy, the question is, why would I start this hobby if I don't like to paint (or at least do paint). People are surely not in it for the (mediocre) game system only. Not for the competition/tournament aspect only. For the market-presence, availability perhaps? Surely not for the affordability.

So what is the motivation of people stopping their efforts after glueing, or sadly, after buying?

Maybe a new question to beef up this thread, before it becomes an argument between die hard followers of the extreme viewpoints as did all the others ;)

Speaking for myself it's real simple, I started off a pretty hardcore player and all that. I've gotten tired of all the BS that goes on within the game though (rules arguments, elitists blah blah blah) and I've lost a lot of my passion. So what I have is this, a ****-load of unpainted models and a few painted ones with no desire to paint anymore. I still enjoy playing the game sometimes, much in the same way that I like to play monopoly or chess or whatever. Warhammer is not a hobby to me anymore, it is a game that I can take off the shelf and play when I don't want to do anything else. I just think it's unfair to punish people like me or even people who just don't like to paint, hey if somebody likes to glue and go then why should anyone judge them for that?

It's kind of astounding the sheer dis-taste for people who don't paint, you'd think we where killing babies or something. Some of you guys talk about playing against an unpainted army like it's a method of torture. Come on people let's live in the real world here, some people don't like to paint, why all the hating? I just can't see treating people badly over something as small as a game.

Gaebriel
05-05-2007, 13:53
Hmm, let me rephrase it, as I possibly sounded too offensively.

Given the fact that tabletop-wargaming (GW-wargaming on top as a ressource queen), relies on painted models - or at least on a metagame that has painted models written in it - where does the interest of people who don't like to paint lie within the game, that couldn't be taken care of much easier (and with a lot less of flak), with another choice of game?

Or short - if one likes painting models but no gaming, it's collecting or modelmaking.

If one likes tactical or strategy games but no painting, it's any brand of tactical boardgame.

If one's inbetween there are tons of choices of wargames that need vastly different numbers of models to paint to find the one that meets one's dedication.

lord_blackfang
05-05-2007, 13:54
I love seeing a well-painted army, but I prefer unpainted to poorly painted. It just hurts to see models abused so...

EDIT: Gaebriel, what about those of us who love building models but don't like painting them?

DarkLord Of Naggaroth
05-05-2007, 14:28
EDIT: Gaebriel, what about those of us who love building models but don't like painting them?

now that seems really wierd to me. the construction of the figs is the worst part of the whole process for me. It always takes longer than expected, parts don't fit together and it delays the painting which actually feels like progress.

why do you enjoy it :confused:

Gaebriel
05-05-2007, 14:36
... EDIT: Gaebriel, what about those of us who love building models but don't like painting them?
I guess they would fall into the modelmaking category? ... Unless they also enjoyed playing - I see...

So let's look at it another way - are painted models a neccessary part of a game experience, or just an optional facet - at the same gratification?

Or to reconnect to my thesis : do people get enough out of the game with unpainted models, or is painted a part of the 'full' experience, and they could get the same satisfaction out of a game that needn't painting?

Mr Zephy
05-05-2007, 14:41
I love seeing a well-painted army, but I prefer unpainted to poorly painted. It just hurts to see models abused so...

EDIT: Gaebriel, what about those of us who love building models but don't like painting them?

You're probably right. New brettonians would be much better than the ones I painted when I was 7...

karnn
05-05-2007, 14:47
guys its easy to compain about people not painting when you can paint. I love assembling "Apart from medal models" i love with a passion the gaming for me thats the whole point of Warhammer and heck i love writng about Warhammer. However painting i hate so much. I suck at it and have tried over and over again. If i paint people complain if i don't they complain but not as much.

I don't se a problem to fighting un painted armies i do it but yes i love to see good painted models. Thing is i cant do it so stop be so aggressive people its a game let us enjoy it and if the gaming is the part we enjoy then let us do it. However they have to paint it at one points. I am presently being helped by a master class painted doing my army and i'm learning finnaly. But give them time jeez just coz ur good

Mr Zephy
05-05-2007, 14:57
But the mocking for not being able to paint hides our own inadequacies!:cries:

TBH, assembled is fine. What does annoy me is pieces falling off, and slowly being left behind as the army advances. (Unfortunately no-one playing undead has had this happen to them, because that would be cool.)

The boyz
05-05-2007, 15:03
I don't mind playing against unpainted units or armies. But nothing beats seeing two fully painted armies slog it out. Personally I don't like fielding units which are not painted or based. But in general, I am not to bothered.

infernus31
05-05-2007, 15:58
I have always tried to ensure my armies are painted as soon as I can, soemtimes I will field a new addtion unpainted, or a stand in model, but I try to paint my army asap. I know I'm not the world's greatest painter ( I have eyesight problems with focusing and it really doesn't help) so I am never going to have a army anywhere above gaming standard.


Yet i dont mind playing unpainted armies for whatever reason, gaming is the main appeal to me for this hobby, and to be honest I am one of the very few people in the society I am in with a completely painted army for one reason or another people cannot paint their armies, so I would miss gaming if i insisted on playing only painted armies, something I'm glad I haven't limited myself to.

intellectawe
05-05-2007, 17:22
I don't care if I fight unpainted armies. Not everyone is in the hobby as a painter. You can be a player and not give two poops about painting. They are two different aspects of the whole hobby.

I am the proud owner of 16 unpainted armies. And they will stay that way.

Raj
06-05-2007, 08:25
Well I started playing early this year and I have never played a game with any of my units unpainted. I play with my bro mostly but he doesn't always paints his models before playing them. I abhor using unpainted models to play and it forces me to paint my models up. At the moment I'm starting a night goblin army and all my Space marines(my first army) have been painted.
It just makes me feel proud to see almost 2000 points of Space Marines kicking Necron ass on the battle field. Of course all this IMHO
Raj

Nkari
06-05-2007, 08:42
I find it ok to play with unpainted minis as long as you are making improvements in the paint department..

Welf VIII.
06-05-2007, 09:53
I don't play with or against unpainted armies or units.

First of all, in my gaming group there is nobody, who would accept playing with unpainted miniatures. It destroys the atmosphere and I made a very bad experiences with unpainted miniatures. In the old days a lost a Blood bowl match, because I mistook a zombie for a ghoul. So, this taught me my lesson. On the other hand, power gamers often come with not or lousy painted armies, teams or gangs. I've never met a power gamer with properly painted army.

But perhaps it's just me as I come more from the collecting part of this hobby, having collecting miniatures ten years before I started playing Warhammer. The great thing about painting is it really gives you time to think about your army, not only what units are needed to destroy your opponent but also what units seem stylish considering the background of your army.

hivetyrant333
06-05-2007, 11:56
I have no problem with playing against unpainted armies.

I will play with unpainted models (although I don't like doing it) as I find it generates lots of motivation to get them finished.

theunwantedbeing
06-05-2007, 12:11
So long as the model has an undercoat and some progress is made by the time we next have a battle,I dont really mind.

Reaver83
06-05-2007, 12:23
i think it's one of those situations where we all love to playwith/against painted models.

However there are always reasons why people don't due to all manner of reasons.

Personally i'll play anyone, unpainted isn't as satisfying but people don't all like painting or don't have the time. (though i got really annoyed by someone who fielded some plastic scouts in some plastic buildings - best camoflage ever!)

Personally i occasionally field unpainted modles but thats on the way to painting them.

C-Coen
06-05-2007, 12:32
I prefer painted armies, but because my own armies aren't all painted I understand people who play with unpainted mini's, because they simply really want to play.
As long as people use some normal mini's (no plain bases, for example) I mostly agree.

Better an unpainted army than an ugly painted army, IMO.

TapeFace
06-05-2007, 12:32
I think the worst thing about unpainted armies is having someone who represents an unpainted unit(e.g saurus) as another unit like chaos warriors

untimention
06-05-2007, 12:53
painted armies will always look better... more often people say WOW look at that model not for how it looks but how its painted... but unpainted models do the same job.

jahorin
06-05-2007, 12:59
I really don't mind fielding an unpainted army, and I don't mind playing in a friendly game against a unpainted army. What I don't tolerate is empty base in a unit to fill it up to the desired number.

Sure it's a hobby, but form me, my favorite part is actually playing the game. I'm not that good of a painter, and I don't have that much time to dedicate to the hobby as well. So when I get time, I use it to to play the rather rather than than painting the models.


painted armies will always look better... more often people say WOW look at that model not for how it looks but how its painted... but unpainted models do the same job.

My though exactly, my orcs aren't going to hit more if they are painted or not, but it's going to look better on the battlefield, I have to admit.

The Underdog
06-05-2007, 13:32
I have to say that (as expected) I love to play against a fully painted army, it just adds to the sense of drama in the game. Personally, I managed to complete my first 2k army back in October and haven't fielded an unpainted unit since. Since I haven't really had much time for painting since, this is now beginning to get boring (constantly using the same list) so it is working as incentive to get some more units painted.

I see having a painted army as a mark of respect for my opponent. It says 'I value their enjoyment of the game enough to put effort in to my painting'.

However, I do realise that not everyone has much time for painting (or much enjoyment for it), so I am happy to play against an unpainted force, although I will try and convince my opponent to paint unless I am seeing some kind of progression over time (enough to show they are trying).

I can understand mocking (in good spirits) those who persist in fielding an unpainted force but I feel sorry ofr those who feel the need to insult those of us whose painting skills are not as well developed. Sureley they need to start somewhere and this kind of behavior will only put them off. My own first models were diaboloical, but I persisted and now am achieving a standard which often gets favourable reactions from my opponent. Bad painters should be encouraged and given help to improve, not harrassed and insulted.

Joewrightgm
06-05-2007, 13:37
I respect the fact that many people who play they game might not have the time to paint that I do. I also never field anything that's not been painted.

That said, I don't really have a problem with other people doing it.

Vattendroppe
06-05-2007, 14:44
I have no problem with my enemy fielding unpainted figures, it makes my army look so much nicer! Also, as been said, not everyone have the time to sit down and paint (I'll have a hell with that since I'm going of to university this fall :/), and I think that one should respect that. But I cannot say that I love unpainted armys, I think that it's better to have 2250 painted than 6K unpainted so to speak.

DarkLord Of Naggaroth
06-05-2007, 15:08
ok maybe it's alright, but it takes out the whole concept of collecting an army. for me, if I wanted to include something in my next game, I would have to paint it before the game, and if I didn't then i wouldn't use them. when I paint them, they enter my army. I wouldn't say I had a 3k army, I'd say I have 2k because the rest isn't painted. If you just pick stuff up from the shelves and say they're in your army, you're not collecting-just buying.

popisdead
06-05-2007, 15:46
This just changed in Canada, that in GW stores, people can now play with non-standard-painted armies (min of 3 base colours and flocked bases) but each week they must progress. Customers are unsure if it means each model, each unit or what. Can I paint 5 guys a week (a huge accomplishment for me) which would be a rank in a horde?

I imagine this gives the staff a headache of enforcing if they will bother.

After spending a year getting my wood elf army up to 2000 pts (each model got 2-5 hours work) I don't know if I agree with this new rule as seeing even someone do the minimum, with a bit of effort it's a treat to see their army fully done and play the game.

Even guys who don't care to do the huge amount of detail, if they spend a bit of time on the model making it neat and cleanly painted with a nice base, that army still looks quite nice.

Plus it was a big accomplishment when I could finally play in the store with an army at 1000, 1500 and 2000 pts.

The painting change is to get new kids to buy stuff, glue it up and come in and play and try to 'coach' them to paint, but really, just buy more product. Having said that I suddenly have over a dozen armies (auctions are great :D ) playable now,.. but I'd feel kinda embarrassed not having them fully done and using them.

So after all that, I still would prefer not to play someone with unpainted models, especially if it's stemmed from laziness. 50% of this hobby is painting (for me it's 80%) so may respect that, but in the end?, it's a game with toys.

Vile Snotsuckle
06-05-2007, 15:46
My friends and I use to do the unpainted armies, but now we require it. An army always looks good if it is painted, even if it is painted poorly. However, a painted army that has no primer...ughhhh, don't paint them at all.

Joewrightgm
07-05-2007, 02:55
Popisdead, I feel your pain; My orc and goblins are murder, especially with common and night goblins getting 3 highlights on the skin.

ZeroTwentythree
07-05-2007, 15:02
I love seeing a well-painted army, but I prefer unpainted to poorly painted. It just hurts to see models abused so...


Now see, I've got the opposite view. Everyone's got a different level of skill and experience. I remember what my first figures looked like. Besides, from three feet or so away (viewing distance), just basic colors, even if it's a bit sloppy, look decent en masse.

I really do have a lot of respect for someone who puts the time and effort into assembling and painting an entire army to whatever ability they can. Far more respect than someone who doesn't even try.

While we're at it... I really prefer playing on a table that looks like a battlefield rather than a giant plane of woodgrain...

Hywel
07-05-2007, 15:26
As everyone somewhat obviously agrees: Two painted armies on a nice gaming table is what the hobby is all about. It adds that cinematic edge that other games lack. The visual appeal is very much why I play warhammer instead of just chess or risk.

I'll not refuse to play unpainted armies, the game is still the same. Also, if it is a new army or someone experimenting with a new unit and progress is being made, then I have absolutely no concerns.

However, people that happily play with the same list for an extended period and are not attempting to paint their armies seems a little disrespectful to the time and effort most other players have put into their armies. If you bust a gut trying to paint an entire army to your best ability while many of your opponents are just sticking together model kits you begin to question the worth of your efforts and risk losing the artistic and cinematic side of the hobby.

If you don't like painting, fine. Just find like-minded people to game with and don't be surprised or upset when those who choose to invest a lot of time in their army aren't so keen on playing you.

Dread Lime
07-05-2007, 15:29
As long as the model is fully assembled I won't complain. Painted armies are preferable to unpainted, but I won't say anything if they aren't.

shutupSHUTUP!!!
07-05-2007, 15:37
Unpainted Armies,love 'em or hate 'em

I do prefer to play against painted armies.

I prefer painted armies

Yeah, that's pretty much the same as how I feel.

hate to play with unpainted models

etc etc

Internet discussion at it's finest :p

Rykion
07-05-2007, 15:40
I like painted armies, but I have no problem playing with or against unpainted armies. I don't like more than one proxy unit, or incomplete models though. I feel forcing people to wait until they have a fully painted army is a good way of stifling the growth of the game. After all, who wants to be told you have to invest a few hundred dollars and spend a few months painting before you can play your first game with your own army?

Given the fact that tabletop-wargaming (GW-wargaming on top as a ressource queen), relies on painted models - or at least on a metagame that has painted models written in it - where does the interest of people who don't like to paint lie within the game, that couldn't be taken care of much easier (and with a lot less of flak), with another choice of game?
I suspect the background of the world is one big draw. Many people like to roleplay their army and write up its background within the Warhammer setting. Another is the customization possible for armies. Most boardgames/wargames have set forces without the option to build your own force. Also, I find even unpainted miniatures more aesthetically pleasing than chips, pawns, or cardboard counters from other games.

asparagus
07-05-2007, 15:46
This just changed in Canada, that in GW stores, people can now play with non-standard-painted armies (min of 3 base colours and flocked bases) but each week they must progress. Customers are unsure if it means each model, each unit or what. Can I paint 5 guys a week (a huge accomplishment for me) which would be a rank in a horde?

I imagine this gives the staff a headache of enforcing if they will bother.

... in the GW-shops in Germany nowadays it is allowed to play even with unpainted armies and there is no timetable officially set up for painting the models

and on the gaming table it just does not look right.

ZeroTwentythree
07-05-2007, 16:06
The theory, as I understand it, is that requiring painted armies for in-store games helps sell the game. I agree with this idea. Why some of the GW stores would be backing down on this, I don't know.

Braad
07-05-2007, 16:07
I played an unpainted amry once, because a friend wanted to test it before he started painting. I really disliked playing it, even though I won (he had wood elves). Dunno really why, but since I put quite some effort in my army, I expect my opponent to do at least a bit.
Now I knew that he really paints fast at table-top quality, so I did approve that one time...

On a side note, he never painted the army, sold his other army and quit warhammer completely...

With my friends we have sort of a house rule saying: "one unfinished unit each at max".
That's mainly for those occasions you really can't wait to see something in action. But other than that: everything assembled and painted!

artisturn
07-05-2007, 18:44
At the moment my about a third of my army is painted. I started with my core units that way my painting skills improve as I move on to my other units.But I am doing a lot of conversion work on my models, using empire knights for my black knights and pinning zombie hands onto my ghouls and spirit host.
Most of my friends have fully painted armies but they dont give me any grief about my army being unpainted. They all know I am new to the warhammer hobby . But we do have painting nights every once in awhile which really inspires you to paint.
I have only used blank bases in 2 games and I wasnt to thrilled about it ,my fell bats broke off their bases and I only proxied once when i forgot to bring my banshee for a game .
But nothing looks better then 2 fully painted armies going toe to toe on a great looking gaming table.

bdickj
07-05-2007, 18:50
I don't mind playing unpainted armies in pickup games.

But I spend alot of time painting my armies for tournament play. If you go to a tournament, have your stuff painted, please!

Otherwise, it's all a game.

Nell2ThaIzzay
07-05-2007, 18:50
Well I guess I'm in no place to talk since only one of my 3 armies is painted.

My entire Vampire Counts army is painted, save for my 10 Dire Wolves which aren't even primered yet. I also have some SPARE Necromancers and Vampires which I don't have painted, but I never field them anyways as I already have painted models for the Necromancers and Vampires that I field.

My Chaos army is completely unpainted and unprimered.

My Wood Elves army is completely primered, but I only have 1 painted Dryad, and a partially painted Waywatcher.

I obviously prefer it when 2 armies are fully painted going against each other. But since to me I'm more concerned with the gaming than the modelling, I don't care if someone doesn't have painted models. Especially since I run an army that's completely unpainted.

Odieman
07-05-2007, 19:03
In tournaments I hate it when my opponent hasnt painted atleast some of his/her army. So I dont like playing against unpainted armies, (and I would never field an unpainted army), but I am willing to fight against them.

Angelwing
07-05-2007, 20:10
Dont like them. I will play anyone with unpainted stuff no worries, but I personally dont field members of the lead legion

Luthien
07-05-2007, 20:14
i don't mind, i personally won't play with unpainted figs, which leads to me not playing very oftern. but what other people do isn't my concern

MaxTheGaijin
07-05-2007, 20:56
I paint my stuff and don't use the plastic Mafia and I prefer everyone in my Club to have atleast one army painted.

Anvilbrow
09-05-2007, 04:00
Personally, playing with and against painted armies is awesome, but like some, I don't like to play with the same army all the time. Most of my games are played with totally unpainted armies as only 4 of my 15 or so are fully painted. I have been steadily painting for over two decades and can claim fully painted Bloodbowl teams, Man o War fleets, Quest characters, Warmaster armies, Mordheim gangs, all in addition to around 15k of painted Fantasy armies for tournaments.

Having said that, I am ALWAYS working on several painting projects at any given time, slowly, but surely. I just prefer to play games than hunch over a desk squinting;)

Lord_Byron
09-05-2007, 08:34
I just don't understand the unpainted armies. You don't have to paint up your whole army to 'eavy metal standards, just slap a few colors on them. It's really not that much effort, and gives the models a lot of extra dimension.

I recently started collecting orcs. I primed them black, painted their skins dark angels green, their cloth and wood scorched brown, and drybrushed their weapons with boltgun metal. All of these colors are the dark base colors, and will eventually be worked up to better standards when I get around to it, but I took the whole 2 or 3 hours to get 3k of greenskins to what I would consider a minimally presentable standard.

I wouldn't ever refuse to play against an unpainted army, but I am honestly starting to get frustrated with the guys who never paint their stuff, and constantly ask me when I am going to paint their army for them.

My biggest problem with the unpainted armies I play against is I have such a hard time telling the units apart, and in particular finding the unit champions. I'm really getting disgusted with charging a unit of monochromatic, single pose models and somehow the unit champion always ends up in the most advantageous placement for my lazy opponent. "Which one of those riderless, unpainted empire steeds is the Preceptor again? Oh, that one in the corner in base contact with my orc shaman huh? :wtf: Fascinating."

Frankly
09-05-2007, 08:44
Not everyone has the time to paint a whole army and get the job done well be for they want to get games in.

I prefer that people get games in and enjoy playing rather than worry about their unpainted models. Most people that play long enough realize that painted models are just cooler things to have.

Its a hobby after all and people should move along at their own pace, its the player interaction that is more important down at our club.

lilljonas
09-05-2007, 09:17
If you don't have the time or skills to paint an army, why not just dip it? It's quick, easy, and while it won't produce amazing results all the time, it's definately enough to look good on a tabletop?

EDIT: of course, this is not for those who are aiming to paint their entire army in some other way, but just haven't managed to get everything done, but rather those who have tons of unpainted stuff and never ever paint a single model.

Eniac
09-05-2007, 09:27
Not everyone has the time to paint a whole army and get the job done well be for they want to get games in.

I prefer that people get games in and enjoy playing rather than worry about their unpainted models. Most people that play long enough realize that painted models are just cooler things to have.

Its a hobby after all and people should move along at their own pace, its the player interaction that is more important down at our club.


Nobody does that much stuff they have no time for painting. I used to work 5 jobs and still found time to paint up my lizards, dark angels and ultrawing.
I been to uni twice, colledge 4 times and held down approximately 9 different jobs over the past 7 years and yet I could always find the time to paint and game.

I currently work a mere 2 jobs (one full time) and although time is less of a luxury I still manage to belt out a few hundred points worth of models a week. Its no excuse.

If you dont paint your figures you may as well play with bottle caps and flower pots. It's all the same at the end of the day.

Alathir
09-05-2007, 09:46
Yeah, having them painted makes the game alot more enjoyable but I have no problem at all playing or versing them... hell, somebody can throw down a paper cut out of an appropiately sized base and say 'thats a giant' and ill go sure!

the vicar
09-05-2007, 10:00
As opposed to apparently everyone here, I absolutely refuse to play against an opponent who fields an entirely painted army. The way I figure it, if it's painted, then the bloke spends too much time at this hobby and will likely mop the floor with my poor half-painted Dark Elves.

"Fancy a game?"
"Depends, is your army painted?"
"It sure as hell is, mister."
"In that case then, no. Next, please."

:D :D :D ;)

"Are those popsicle sticks sticking out of modelling putty?"
"Yep. This is Robin Darkblade, Scion of The Down Yonder, and his Band of Merry Ne'er-Do-Wells."
"Which one is Robin?"
"He's the stick with the smiley face painted on it."
"They all have smiley faces painted on them."
"He's the one that's canary yellow."
"You're playing Dark Elves, you say?"
"Yep. And they're on Cold Ones. RROOOAAARRR."
"Sweet. Game on."

Badgertronic
09-05-2007, 10:09
i wouldnt care.. if the army is effective than im fine with it.

squiggoth
09-05-2007, 10:23
As opposed to apparently everyone here, I absolutely refuse to play against an opponent who fields an entirely painted army. The way I figure it, if it's painted, then the bloke spends too much time at this hobby and will likely mop the floor with my poor half-painted Dark Elves.


Best answer yet.:p

I don't care much about wether an army is fully painted or not, as long as it's clear what everything represents (so no "this empty base is a plasmagun, these old plastic Berzerkers are Black Ocs and this piece of cardboard is a Tomb Scorpion").
I do like the sight of two fully painted armies slugging it out, but when a player has just bought an army and wants to play some proxy games before fully assembling/painting his models he's free to spank my Nurglings any time.

As for my own armies, I finish about 500 points or so per year so my armies often contain unpainted/WIP models. I paid a shedload of money for the little guys, so I'm not going to rush and muck up their paint jobs in order to make other people feel better from a visual point of view. :p

Eniac
09-05-2007, 11:31
If I wanted to play against tokens and good faith I would play a game of scrabble.


Wargaming is about the whole experience.

ZeroTwentythree
09-05-2007, 13:30
I thought of this whole unpainted vs. painted issue when I saw another one in the MP&T forum yesterday:

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=83073

There you go. Speed painting with excellent results.


Heh. I think all of the "prefer painted" people (like myself) just need to start applying more peer pressure. :evilgrin:

Vodevil
09-05-2007, 14:04
Nobody does that much stuff they have no time for painting. I used to work 5 jobs and still found time to paint up my lizards, dark angels and ultrawing.
I been to uni twice, colledge 4 times and held down approximately 9 different jobs over the past 7 years and yet I could always find the time to paint and game.

I currently work a mere 2 jobs (one full time) and although time is less of a luxury I still manage to belt out a few hundred points worth of models a week. Its no excuse.

If you dont paint your figures you may as well play with bottle caps and flower pots. It's all the same at the end of the day.

Here's the thing, I don't care about warhammer enough to devote my free time to painting. I enjoy a game because I get to see my boys and hang out, but that's about it. When I go to paint, I always think, gosh I could be working a screenplay instead or I could be a PA on that movie in town or blah blah blah. I have more passion for other creative outlets then I do for painting, it's about the passion man, not the time. You clearly have a love for warhammer, I like the game but I'm not really as into it as you are, oh no, people think differently!

I love movies alright? It's what I do. I know a lot about them and when I see a movie I watch it with different eyes than everyone else, when most other people watch a movie they aren't going to look at it nearly as much as I am. So does that mean they shouldn't be able to watch a movie? Just because they aren't spending time and effort on it like me? Hell naw.

I just see a lot of elitism and false judgments on this subject, you say war-gaming is about a whole experience right? Well maybe for you it is, but not for me. War-gaming for me is a casual saturday afternoon with some friends, a couple pops and some BBQ.

DarkLord Of Naggaroth
09-05-2007, 15:55
Here's the thing, I don't care about warhammer enough to devote my free time to painting.

yet you care about Warhammer enough to devote your spare time talking about warhammer on the wonderful website of Warseer?

Gaebriel
09-05-2007, 16:18
yet you care about Warhammer enough to devote your spare time talking about warhammer on the wonderful website of Warseer?
It might not be spare time, as many people can post from work (I can, and I know of others).

Snapchuck
09-05-2007, 16:37
If you dont paint your figures you may as well play with bottle caps and flower pots. It's all the same at the end of the day.

I know the current quality of Games workshop models have been the topic of debate in other posts but saying they look like flower pots must be a new low for GW.:)

Why can't anyone play with unpainted models? The question I'd ask is would you refuse to play an unpainted army?

lilljonas
09-05-2007, 16:49
Why can't anyone play with unpainted models? The question I'd ask is would you refuse to play an unpainted army?

I think this thread boils it down to two sets of reasons.

Gameplay reasons: it's more difficult to keep track of poorly assembled/unpainted miniatures, the "wave of metal/wall of black things" effect. Getting charged by grail knights that you thought were squires sucks, plain and simple.

Esthetical reasons: it doesn't look as good, and that prevents some people from enjoying the game.

I can understand both sides of this argument. If you don't get enjoy a game against an unpainted army, then it's stupid to play against unpainted armies. If you don't enjoy the game, it's not doing anything for you, and if you play against someone who isn't enjoying the game, then its probably boring for you too. Both parties lose.

Vodevil
09-05-2007, 16:51
yet you care about Warhammer enough to devote your spare time talking about warhammer on the wonderful website of Warseer?

Like Gaebriel said, I can post from work when I'm waiting on a call back or don't have anything to do. Also, when I'm sitting down and working on a screenplay, I can check a forum for a nice break.

reese3697
09-05-2007, 19:57
playing with or against unpainted armies/partially painted armies is definatly ok... there USED to be this game store in my area... the store rule was that if it wasnt painted, then you coulndt use it in a game in the store... needless to say, with policy such as this and other not so popular policy, the store went out of business...
anyways... i agree that as long as the player is making an attempt, it doesnt matter... our hobby always is in need of more players... and when they start, gues what (its not going to be painted)...
personally, the way i assemble/paint/model my units, a unit and army is not ready to play until it is fust about finished...

also....

lets not forget... if unpainted meets painted... the unpainted will usually not do so well... and in my XP usually looses... so we always have that to smile about...