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sir.spamalot
06-05-2007, 22:05
I bought a 2nd edition ork codex and a whole load of 2nd edition orks a while ago(well I got the codex today...) So I had this crazy idea, That me and my freind would get the rouge trader rulebook and collect some second edition armys and play second edition games every once in a while. So my question is...Is it worth it? Should we go to all this trouble to play an outdated game? What are your opinions on second edition? Would you do it?

So, after all those questions what do you guys think, second edition or 4th etc.

cheers

Onisuzume
06-05-2007, 22:25
Imo it's worth it.
The 2nd edition was more made with fun in mind than balance in mind.
And there are things a fair number of veterans miss from the 2nd edition. (rules for psychology anyone?)

TheOTHERmaninblack
06-05-2007, 22:57
I'm collecting the old books myself lately, attempting to make an inhouse composite ruleset for those times when the lads are hungering for more depth.

Not so much with the old minis. Da boyz, while much more colorful, were just a bit clowny and quite weedy. Doesn't stop us from using them as examples to model more serious versions, though. Samesame with the marines and such, although the I.G. didn't look too bad even back then.

I say go for it and let us know how it works out.

sigur
07-05-2007, 00:53
I might be a bit nostalgic on this thing and I don't want to discuss the2nd edition thing again but it's definitly worth (and fairly easy) to collect the old books. Even if you don't play, they make great reads. Apart from that, you definitly should give 2nd edition games a try.

shabbadoo
07-05-2007, 02:08
The Rogue(not Rouge) Trader rulebook is not 2nd Edition by the way. You need the 2nd Edition boxed set, or at least the two rule books that came in it. Also, the Dark Millennium boxed set has all the added expansions one needs for a complete set of the 2nd Edition rules. I still have all of my 2nd Edition stuff and look at it now and again. One thing about 2e vs. 4e rules sets, close combat in 2e among larger armies is a real chore, as every model fights individually. If you end up playing 4,000+ points per side of Orks vs. Tyranids then plan on an all-nighter (not that I know from experience or anything... :D).

Bunnahabhain
07-05-2007, 10:47
A set of 2nd ed 40k rules, plus your codex gives you several things. The ability to play the more detailed 2nd ed games, a source of inspiration for custom units of your own in 4th ed, and the right to complain about dumbing down...

sigur
07-05-2007, 10:51
...., and the right to complain about dumbing down...

After reading the 2nd edition rulebooks, you'll see that it's less of a right and more of a personal duty. :p

sir.spamalot
07-05-2007, 16:50
The Rogue(not Rouge) Trader rulebook is not 2nd Edition by the way. You need the 2nd Edition boxed set, or at least the two rule books that came in it. Also, the Dark Millennium boxed set has all the added expansions one needs for a complete set of the 2nd Edition rules. I still have all of my 2nd Edition stuff and look at it now and again. One thing about 2e vs. 4e rules sets, close combat in 2e among larger armies is a real chore, as every model fights individually. If you end up playing 4,000+ points per side of Orks vs. Tyranids then plan on an all-nighter (not that I know from experience or anything... :D).

Oh wow, you need a lot more then I thought:eek: What is the rogue trader rulebook then? And the funny thing is I play orks and I'm begging to collect some tyranids:angel:

Cheers

Cirenivel
07-05-2007, 16:57
AFAIK, Rogue Trader was the 1. edition of warhammer 40k

Cirenivel

Mr Zephy
07-05-2007, 16:58
Rouge trader=1st

2nd ed= 2nd ed :)

Edit: Curse you Cirenivel! mutter mutter too quick... mutter mutter pillaging my coastline...

sir.spamalot
07-05-2007, 17:08
Oh OK then 2nd edition it is! What source books etc. should I get for playing a basic game?

CommisarMolotov
07-05-2007, 17:16
2nd edition rules were made up of 4 books - three that came with the boxed set (a rulebook, a background book, and a wargear book), and then the expansion "Dark Millenium" that had rules for psychic powers and had strategy cards for the battles.

Might be a wee bit hard to lay your hands on those books nowadays.

sir.spamalot
07-05-2007, 17:18
What models were in the boxed set or is there any way I can look this up instead of asking lots of questions?

Onisuzume
07-05-2007, 18:36
In the starter set were:

2 Space Marines with Flamers.
2 Space Marines with Missile Launchers.
2 Space Marine Sergeants with Chainsword and Bolt Pistol.
14 Space Marines with Bolters.
20 Orks with Axe and Bolt Pistol. (someone verify the amount please)
40 Grots wih Autoguns. (again, could someone please verify the amount)
1 Cardboard Ork Dreadnought.

The Space Marines are currently drafted in my Dark Angels army while the orks are rotting somewhere on the attic.

CommisarMolotov
07-05-2007, 18:40
Feel free to ask questions - that's why we're here!

As I recall, there were either 10 or 20 (pretty sure it was 20)Space Marines in the 2nd edition boxed set, with a flamer and missile launcher as their special and heavy weapons. They were two-piece models with the bolters held across the chest at "port arms" - not terribly attractive models.

The opposition force was 20 2-piece Ork Goffs with a bolt pistol and axe, and another 20 1-piece gretchin with neat little spiked helmets and an autogun. I think they had 2-dimensional card "dreadnoughts" - an Ork one and a Space Marine one, but maybe it was just an Ork one.

The scenery was plentiful and pretty well done - ruined building sections made out of card. I still use 'em!

sir.spamalot
07-05-2007, 18:41
Oh wow thats alot! I'm off to Ebay for a short while to see if I can get my hands on one of them! Is there any scenery? And again if theres any place where I can look these questions up please provide a link.

TheWarSmith
07-05-2007, 18:44
Imo it's worth it.
The 2nd edition was more made with fun in mind than balance in mind.
And there are things a fair number of veterans miss from the 2nd edition. (rules for psychology anyone?)

40k....psychology? Wait....those....ahhh, head's gonna burst.

Onisuzume
07-05-2007, 19:23
Oh wow thats alot! I'm off to Ebay for a short while to see if I can get my hands on one of them! Is there any scenery? And again if theres any place where I can look these questions up please provide a link.
Cardboard ruins for scenery. (A4-sized sheets with push-out bits that you need to push out and glue together)

The opposition force was 20 2-piece Ork Goffs with a bolt pistol and axe, and another 20 1-piece gretchin with neat little spiked helmets and an autogun. I think they had 2-dimensional card "dreadnoughts" - an Ork one and a Space Marine one, but maybe it was just an Ork one.
Was a bit unsure of the amount of orks&gretchin in there.
But I do know that the Space Marines did *not* get a dreadnought. (otherwise I'd be using it)

40k....psychology? Wait....those....ahhh, head's gonna burst.
They had pretty much all the psychology rules in it that fantasy has.

TheWarSmith
07-05-2007, 19:47
You mean it wasn't virtually all Ld9-10 constant LD rerolls or fearless?

Seriously, psychology is a factor for how many armies?

sigur
07-05-2007, 20:13
Personally, I didn't find the terrain that came with the 2nd edition box that flattering and the box contained 40 Gretchins, not 20. Especially the Orks and Gretchins from this box go very cheap on ebay because....well it's long ago and in an era in which GW didn't have very impressive plastic miniatures. They are all single-pose and don't fit with the current design of Orks any more (I'm currently putting together a late RT/2nd edition Orks army and might use them though).

Apart from the big three books (Rulebook, Wargear and Codex Imperialis), there were lots of cardboard markers, templates, wargear cards a reference piece (A4, cardboard) and two more books (or booklets): Codex Army lists (which had army lists for every army to play with until the codices were released and contains the last official Squats army list) and the Battle of Armageddon booklet which had quite some scenarios to play with the minis you get in the box as well as a great documentation of the 2nd war for Armageddon.

The Dark Millennium box also had quite some counters, the Dark Millennium book and many cards for the psy-phase and wargear and datafaxes (cards on which the characteristics, arnament and damage charts for each vehicle were written). When getting these boxes, maybe you can aquire all the counters and cards too. While the counters aren't exactly that important, the Wargear cards, datafaxes and psychic cards are.

As I said before, it isn't that hard to aquire 2nd edition stuff via ebay since they printed huge quantities of most books (except for Codex Sisters of Battle and Codex Assassins which are a bit harder to find).

El_Phen
08-05-2007, 19:33
One thing you might want to consider though, asuming you've purchased the 2nd edition rules AND Dark Millenium is to get rid of the Virus Outbreak and Rad Grenade Special/Wargear Cards. Oh and maybe limit the number of Vortex grenades too, as much as I love 'em, and I do, they are VERY powerful and smite everything. One or two are cool though, watch them wander around the table swallowing tanks, troops and everything else they touch. Magic.

sir.spamalot
08-05-2007, 19:40
One thing you might want to consider though, asuming you've purchased the 2nd edition rules AND Dark Millenium is to get rid of the Virus Outbreak and Rad Grenade Special/Wargear Cards. Oh and maybe limit the number of Vortex grenades too, as much as I love 'em, and I do, they are VERY powerful and smite everything. One or two are cool though, watch them wander around the table swallowing tanks, troops and everything else they touch. Magic.

Well contrary to what people think, the old books.starter sets are going for a lot on Ebay so I haven't had a chance to look at them yet...

But whats a rad grenade? Thats one thing I haven't heard of....but it sounds cool:)

cheers

EDIT:
Ok, so I want this
http://cgi.ebay.com/WARHAMMER-40K-SUPPLEMENT-DARK-MILLENIUM_W0QQitemZ150080920009QQihZ005QQcategoryZ 31399QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem

And the second edition starter set which I can't find on Ebay...Is there a name I could search? For exemple: battle for maccrage for the 4th ed.

El_Phen
08-05-2007, 19:55
Ah, the Rad grenade. Basically it was a grenade that was generally used by marines to annhilate Ork, Tyranid and Guard armies in one turn. Think of it as a small atomic bomb and you're not far wrong. It was certainly as deadly. It used a 3" radius (that's 6 inches across kids) template that could be thrown, yes, THROWN or shot out of a grenade launcher and land smack in the middle of your troops who would then frazzle due to the strength of the radiation. It would then stay in play for the rest of the game, anything came within range SMITE! For some reason, fully enclosed troops (i.e Imperial/Chaos marines and Eldar - before these new fangled Necron and Tau thingies were discovered) were immune and could go about their merry business. It was banned from tournaments with GW telling people to get rid of it from the deck of strategy cards. For clarity, before each game, each army cold draw a number of 'strategy' cards which represented certain strategies the army had come up with. Not all of these were very useful depending on the army used and some, like virus outbreak and the rad grenade were far too powerful and game breaking.

I might have to dig out my second ed bits now to clarify but that was the basic gist of it.

sir.spamalot
08-05-2007, 19:58
Ah, the Rad grenade. Basically it was a grenade that was generally used by marines to annhilate Ork, Tyranid and Guard armies in one turn. Think of it as a small atomic bomb and you're not far wrong. It was certainly as deadly. It used a 3" radius (that's 6 inches across kids) template that could be thrown, yes, THROWN or shot out of a grenade launcher and land smack in the middle of your troops who would then frazzle due to the strength of the radiation. It would then stay in play for the rest of the game, anything came within range SMITE! For some reason, fully enclosed troops (i.e Imperial/Chaos marines and Eldar - before these new fangled Necron and Tau thingies were discovered) were immune and could go about their merry business. It was banned from tournaments with GW telling people to get rid of it from the deck of strategy cards. For clarity, before each game, each army cold draw a number of 'strategy' cards which represented certain strategies the army had come up with. Not all of these were very useful depending on the army used and some, like virus outbreak and the rad grenade were far too powerful and game breaking.

I might have to dig out my second ed bits now to clarify but that was the basic gist of it.

Cool! I want one:evilgrin:

So thats what the whole card thing is about...Dark mellenium cards are for what? Everything?

El_Phen
08-05-2007, 20:04
Dark Millenium (note the i's not e's :D) cards well, as has been mentioned there were many including psychic powers, wargear, vehicle data sheets and many others. It had some really cool Inquisition psychic powers including my favourite of all time, Holocaust. I can't for the life of me remember EXACTLY what it did I just know it lived up to its name.

sigur
08-05-2007, 20:43
Actually, about a year or two after Dark Millenium was released, a FAQ in WD made all wargear cards either "rare"/"unique" (= only 1 per army), "uncommon" (= just as many as wargear cards are avaible in the boxes) and "common" (= as many as you want in your army). At least it was something like that.

TheOTHERmaninblack
09-05-2007, 02:10
I just picked up a dark millenium set for 13 bucks, including shipping. If you watch, they show up now and again. I've seen a complete set including 1st ed 2nd ed and dark millenium go for under $50 just within the past couple of weeks.

On the other hand, a Space Marine game went for $234 PLUS shipping. YIKES!!

I haven't gotten my DM set yet, but I eagerly await it's arrival.

El_Phen
09-05-2007, 11:37
Actually, about a year or two after Dark Millenium was released, a FAQ in WD made all wargear cards either "rare"/"unique" (= only 1 per army), "uncommon" (= just as many as wargear cards are avaible in the boxes) and "common" (= as many as you want in your army). At least it was something like that.

Really? My memory of the 90's is pretty hazy and my back catalogue of White Dwarfs is pretty small so I can live with that. Really though? I think a lot of my friends at that time must have been screwing me over then and including stuff they shouldn't. Bar stewards. I'm going to find me Dark Millenium now and re-live the 'Golden days'.

Wolfsbane
09-05-2007, 12:00
2nd edition is how I started playing the game. Although I only had about two years in to the hobby before it switched over to 3rd I remember having fun staying up all night battling with my buddies on our kitchen table.

The big problem I found with 2nd edition is that special characters are gods. They own everything. Most armies were built around supporting one character that would tear through entire armies.

It was fun to play, but I like the balance and rule slimming they changed in 3rd (and the refined 3rd, 4th edition). 4th seems more like a balanced game (besides some abusive cheese) where you need troops to succeed. A single special character makes a difference, but isn't the army nowadays.

As for the old codexes, they contain the best fluff ever!

Gorbad Ironclaw
09-05-2007, 13:28
Ah, the Rad grenade. Basically it was a grenade that was generally used by marines to annhilate Ork, Tyranid and Guard armies in one turn.


I think your mixing it with Virus outbreak, and the slightly less deadly virus grenade.

Those where the ones that could kill whole armies.

The Rad grenaded had a randomly determined radious of effect, and a random strenght(I think), and you suffered a hit if you came into it's range. More a fun gadget than anything else.

sir.spamalot
09-05-2007, 13:41
Well I have picked up the 2nd edition codex orks...this should be fun:evilgrin:

Major King
09-05-2007, 13:48
In my opinion, 2nd edition was awesome in terms of detail and general good fun, the only problem that i really had was the close combat system. It wasn't quite balanced in my opinion, especially when it came to mass-combats. Whereas the combat system in rogue trader worked brilliantly as far as im concernet. My copy is my pride and joy lol