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PKAwolf
11-04-2005, 04:58
I was playing Halo 2 and kept catching 40K referances (but Im sure its just in my head... maybe)

well they have drop pods
and the pelican is kinda like a thunder hawk and can even transport tanks like the hawk
the Master Chief is enhanced, but its... different
and in a cut scene a sargent yells "lets get tactical marines"

anyone else see it?
or maybe I should just go to bed

neXus6
11-04-2005, 05:32
Well seeing as SMs are based on the Starship Troopers book you could easily just kinda miss out the SM totaly and just say was Master Chief based on the SST Novel.
...I think you just need some sleep, that or stop playing Blizzard games inbetween the playing of Halo cause maybe you just getting confused. ;) :p

The Ape
11-04-2005, 05:40
and in a cut scene a sargent yells "lets get tactical marines"


Should read: "Lets get tactical, marines" i.e. lets use some tactics as opposed to running around getting shot by aliens (or master chief)

Wintermute
11-04-2005, 06:24
Halo is heavily influenced by the marines from Aliens.

neXus6
11-04-2005, 06:27
The basic marines and dropships from Halo certainly arebased off Aliens, but Master Chief isn't.
Not that it really matters. :p

Typheron
11-04-2005, 10:18
Remember the Marathon...

http://marathon.bungie.org/

Halo is generally considered to be a sequel of marathon, although in that respect only as its set in the same universe several hundred years down the line. If you look at the origional Mrathon games you can see most of the stuff that makes halo, motion tracker, shields, the weapons (the missle launcher in particular). So what inspired Marathon???

There are general themes that run through the sci-fi community but somehow i think that it was not directly inspired by space marnies, although there are some similarities as to the nature of the master chief and space marines. Although this connection can be seen in any novel or story that involves a super human trying to save humanity.

sigur
11-04-2005, 12:07
I second Typheron's opinion on the general themes included in Halo. All these ideas and images are quite common (maybe the most common) within the genre (and I wouldn't expect any revolutionary ideas from a game made to show the power of the X-box and to be THE blockbuster game)

The idea of armoured human soldiers using landing crafts and "drop-pods" to invade planets is nothing new and had been used in many classic works of SF literature.

Actually, smaller, orbial landers or spaceships to transport troops, equipment and vehicles and drop pods is just a little step foward from how troops were being deployed (on islands for example) since world war 2 when transport planes, marine landing crafts and paratroopers were included into strategic calculations.

Maybe it's the term "Marine" that makes people think of Space Marines, but it's also a common thing that people have this "pool" of interests in their brains and associate some things easier than others. Example: someone likes 40k and Halo and spends some time at those hobbies. It's clear that this person will connect those things easier than someone who likes....let's say "My little Pony" figures and Baldur's Gate. We have to consider that there's always much more outside of our little world. Maybe I wasn't able to make myself clear in this point now.

btw, I have no idea from where you got the connection of Space Marines and the quite stupid phrase "let's get tactical, marines". ;)

Wintermute
11-04-2005, 17:14
The other reason people equate Halo, or more specifically the Spartan IIs with space marines is they are both humans selected at an early age (six years old for the Spartan IIs), physically augmented and trained to be elite super soldiers.

inquisitorautry
11-04-2005, 23:20
You also have to realize that there aren't really any new ideas for stories anymore. Just about every idea has been done by someone, at some point, in some genre. Heck, I have a friend who believes all movies are westerns, and can back it up.

mostholycerebus
11-04-2005, 23:32
GW rips of dozens of sources for their background and fluff. Don't ever think that they have originated anything. Thus, technically, it's very difficult to copy anything GW has done, as it's all been done before.


Heck, I have a friend who believes all movies are westerns, and can back it up.

Quite a few films do follow the 'Western' architecture. Many of Kurosawas did, which is why so many were adapted to westerns. This trend continues today.

Strikerkc
11-04-2005, 23:50
I don't see Halo being pulled from 40K at all, I can however see them both having branched from a similar source, hence the few slight similarities.

Wolflord Bloodangel
12-04-2005, 02:47
Yeah, Halo is definately 99% Marathon sequel. You can notice the Marathon logo scattered amongst the Halo artwork too (and all you 40k-ers will recognise it, its the Tau symbol).

And the term marine is really just 'soldier deployed from ship'. As soon as we move into a sci fi universe then spaceships are your standard fare.... and theyre more often than not called Space Marines too ;)

onnotangu
14-04-2005, 00:54
*cough*starship troopers novel*cough*

Strikerkc
14-04-2005, 01:51
*cough*starship troopers novel*cough*

Well, just about every work of sci-fi since that novel have been inspired by it to some degree.

Ass Goblin
14-04-2005, 03:10
Same as with every fantasy book having something is similar to Lord Of The Rings. It's because some guy has a wonderfull idea and other people what to put there own thoughts into something that follow's those lines but just with diffrent things.

Khaine's Messenger
14-04-2005, 06:41
It is true that Tolkien's been emulated a lot, but I personally wouldn't mine every modern fantasy publication for references to LotR. Even LotR draws references (intended or not) to more classical fantasy/superstition elements. Of course it's hard to discuss them now, because everyone's more familiar with LotR and would think of them in terms of what part of LotR they probably influenced (try to find someone who can discuss Wagner's Ring of the Nibelung without rambling about Tolkien at some point).

...but yeah, I really doubt the Spartans and Halo in general were inspired by much from 40k, as the roots of most of the concepts shared by both settings are much older, as has been laid out by others.

Samoth
14-04-2005, 08:57
I laugh when people say "Bungie stole gw's tau symbol!" :p

worldshatterer
14-04-2005, 10:24
*cough*starship troopers novel*cough*

just no . a starshiptroopers novel based computer game would be much more fun . the power armour in halo is much more limited in scope, and is just a human reverse engineered version of ancient forerunner tech . it pales in comparison to the all singing all dancing ape suits of the mobile infantry .

I've always felt that Halo was very solid in its going for a generic sci-fi feel, the only direct influences being Marathon and Aliens . meh, perhaps someone more well read than me can spot more direct influences but those are the only ones that spring into mind .

JP/AT
14-04-2005, 11:50
Halo storyline is nearly a rip-off from Larry Nivens Ringworld series of books...

Whitz
14-04-2005, 12:34
I found the first post amusing till people started over-analysing it, though i would have read more into it if it had said lets get tactical marines, marine librarians and a BA chaplain on bike. Maybe for the third game? I don't know about every film being a version of a western. If so what westerns equate to twin town, train spotting, ringu(japanese version of the ring) and battle royale? I think i've been missing out.

Scanno
14-04-2005, 14:35
I've read the prequil to Halo I, it was a novel in which there were a hell of a lot o' master chiefs growin up together, think someone hinted at it on the first page of this thread. There are a lot of similarities between master chief and a space marine, but all in all they're all gen-eng humans in power armour, which feature in a lot of sci-fi. Can't fo much finger pointing about it (other than starship troopers, of course). Have to say i love the bit in the novel when it describes what happened when a standard human got into a mjolnar suit of armour; he moved, the suit amplified his movement so much it broke his arm. He screamed, and the reverberations from the suit shoke him to death. Gruesomelly.

worldshatterer
14-04-2005, 15:56
we're not overanalysing, just applying knowledge of critical theory and our wider reading . i'm a student its what i'm paid to do!

twin town=two young outlaws who like gettting wasted and stealing iron horsess and clash with local authority figures .

train spotting= a gang of outsiders and misfits, who cheat and steal to get by in life ultimately resulting in a big time illegal aquistion of money and then betrayal by the member of the band who wants to quit their self destructive lifestyle .

battle royale= all about the olds fear of the young being unruly and disorganised, so old folks teach them harsh lessons .

if you go at basic themes you can make most films sound like westerns, just like if you take the underlying themes of a western you can make it sound like a modern movie or a samurai epic[compare seven samurai, with the magnificient seven] .

the halo books were quite fun, 1 and 3 were passingly average, but the second was a waste of paper as it just told us what happened in the game[which i might have completed just a couple of times]. the only useful thing it did was tell us what the marines and the ODST were doing while the master cheif was busy .

scorpionridge
14-04-2005, 17:50
I'd just like to see the master chief with a bolter, just once.

Josh Rain
14-04-2005, 23:59
Maybe I'll make one out of greenstuff and plasticard.

Ever seen Starship Troopers? Notice how similair the soldiers are to Cadians? And that's just one of many things that's been born from 40K.

Draconis
15-04-2005, 15:56
Actually, all of the games/books are good. And thats what matters to me. But the closest thing I recognize is the Tau Tetras looking alot like ghosts from Halo2.

Wintermute
15-04-2005, 17:58
I always thought the Piranhas were inspired by the Covenant Ghosts fom Halo/Halo 2, not the Tetras.

Draconis
15-04-2005, 18:31
Sort of, cept for the drone thing or whatever is on the edge of the wings. Maybe the tetras are more like banshees?

Rabid Bunny 666
15-04-2005, 21:53
read the books, the similarities are obvious, but the books are completely different to the games

Lord_Sanguinius
17-04-2005, 20:55
The only thing i can see thats the same with halo and space marines is that spartans are sort of like spacemarines. Hint: genetically enhanced, full enclosing armor, hard to kill.

worldshatterer
17-04-2005, 22:37
i have read the books,and listened to all of 'i love bees'[so i'm even up on the spartan 1.0 and 1.1's] and the similarities are not particuarly obvious to me . The mjolnir armour is the product of ancient alien civilisations, and the 2 spartan programs were last ditch attempts to hold a galactic civilisation toghether as opposed to the marine program which was designed to create an army of conquest . The products of the spartan program are many power levels above a space marine . I just fail to see the link between the 2, they just seem to be infuenced by the same things [ancient history and popular sci-fi].

Justicar Jacob
18-04-2005, 01:08
The similarties between halo and 40k are obvious. But a Sapce Marine would turn a Spartan inside out with or without firearms. I can just imagine an Ultramarine picking the chief up by the head and slamming him into the pave. Then punching dents into the Spartans's armor and helmet until blood leaks out.

Wolflord Bloodangel
18-04-2005, 02:21
...The products of the spartan program are many power levels above a space marine ...[ancient history and popular sci-fi].
Ive done some delving into the Halo fluff (bloody good stuff) and I gotta disagree on this point. Sure the Spartan is hard as hell, but even your lowliest of Space Marines would rip him apart. Literally. A Space Marine is strong enough to just tear through a human body...

worldshatterer
18-04-2005, 18:06
but spartans aren't human anymore,they're modified more heavily than space marines . out of the battlesuits they can run at 30mph, in them at least twice this . also bear in mind their combat record, nearly 30 years of constant combat and only 4 serious casualties out of 33 . The only thing a space marine has going for them is that they take a shorter amount of time to train and can be genmodded at a greater age .

http://www.xbox.com/en-US/halo/spotlight2.htm

http://halosm.bungie.org/story/spartan.html

TheSonOfAbbadon
18-04-2005, 18:31
I bet power armour is stronger than spartan armour. And I bet space marines can endure worse wounds than any spartan.

Also there are a f**kton more space marines.

Witchsmeller
18-04-2005, 20:49
Sapce Marine would turn a Spartan inside out with or without firearms. I can just imagine an Ultramarine picking the chief up by the head and slamming him into the pave. Then punching dents into the Spartans's armor and helmet until blood leaks out.


I disagree, in Halo the Master Chief is able to flip over a Scorpian MBT. MC could pull the arms off of an Ultramarine and beat the next one to death with them.

Galadrin
18-04-2005, 22:01
Halo isn't actually a sequel to Marathon, unfortunately. The producers have said many times before that it's not even in the same universe and I tend to agree with them. Referencing past games with symbols and ideas is just something Bungie does, and is not a sign of being later or earlier in the same history of a past game. The only games that are genuinely related to the Marathon series are the Marathon games and Pathways into Darkness.

On the same note, Marathon clearly inspired Halo in many many ways, but I highly doubt Halo was inspired by the Space Marines (and Marathon certainly wasn't inspired by Halo). So who would win, a Mk.V or the Emperor? I put my chips on the BOB slayer.

Black Mage
18-04-2005, 22:14
I just have to give in to my inner nerd.

I would argue that the munitions in 40K are far more powerful than in Halo. A bolter round is far more powerful than the stuff found in Halo, I'd take a bolter over almost even the sniper rifle found in Halo. If a space marine can have bolter rounds just chink off their armour whilst the Spartans die instantly a sniper rifle, I vote Space Marines.

If we really have to settle this, someone should set up a poll.

Galadrin
18-04-2005, 22:36
But have you seen how big a bolter is to a normal human? You'd need a tripod :(

Witchsmeller
18-04-2005, 22:48
Also, bolter rounds routinely fail to kill Imperial Guard in the game.

Trunks
20-04-2005, 03:27
Everything is inspired by something but I don't think that games workshop is the big inspiration for "Super Human Soldiers in a futuristic environment". Starship Troopers is a huge inspiration for GW (Megapowerful Soldiers Versus Bugs!), and alot of the oldschool cheesy scifi is inspiration for newer scifi. Alot of Scifi is inspired by Fantasy stuff.

I'm more interested in the "Everything is a Western Movie" part of this thread myself though :)
I've got a few movies that I'm just curious to see explained as westerns, as a challenge:

1) Ernest Saves Christmas
2) Weekend at Bernies
3) Ghost Dad
4) Child's Play
5) The Abyss
6) Space Jam

The challenge has been set :)

Guardsman
21-04-2005, 21:30
Remember the Marathon...

http://marathon.bungie.org/

Halo is generally considered to be a sequel of marathon, although in that respect only as its set in the same universe several hundred years down the line. If you look at the origional Mrathon games you can see most of the stuff that makes halo, motion tracker, shields, the weapons (the missle launcher in particular). So what inspired Marathon???

There are general themes that run through the sci-fi community but somehow i think that it was not directly inspired by space marnies, although there are some similarities as to the nature of the master chief and space marines. Although this connection can be seen in any novel or story that involves a super human trying to save humanity.

Anyone care to explain what Marathon is? The story section is confusing

Wintermute
22-04-2005, 06:14
Anyone care to explain what Marathon is? The story section is confusing

Marathon was the first in a series of FPS games developed by Bungie for Apple Macintoshes.