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Lord_Crull
19-08-2007, 22:38
Given that the fact that the majority of cult units are now lost I am think about all of us making a letter to GW asking for the return of the Cult Units via White Dwarf. Now it will probably be ignored even if they do read it. But we can still try.

Iím only asking for four rules.

1.Valid grammar and spelling. We want to be seen as an intelligent group of gamers who want change. Not a bunch of chatspeak idiots.

2. Be polite. That means no Jervis Johnson bashing or suchlike.

2. Valid points. No whining. If we whine too much then it will be dismissed. We need to be mature about this.

3. Valid rules. We could submit test rules for Cult HQ and other units.

And pro-codex people. I would appreciate it if you would not interfere since this thread is made for a mature discussion of a letter.

Mad Doc Grotsnik
19-08-2007, 22:44
But, for the most part, the Cults can still be fielded with the Codex.......

Tzeentch, Khorne, Nurgle and Slaanesh are all there. Sure, you can't have a Sonic Predator anymore, but thats what the VDR rules are for.....

dcikgyurt
19-08-2007, 22:53
Okay I'm pro-codex, but legion specific rules in an issue of white dwarf would not be a bad idea. I'd like for it to be either a fun fluff filled list that is not tournament legal (like armoured companies) or a mini codex (like BA) but with the special rules being reasonable. For example:

Iron Warriors: May replace two FA slots with a basilisk.
Night Lords: No Havocs, but raptors become troops (like BA)
Word Bearers: Two units of daemons use Troops slots (Allowing for an almost pure daemon army with units from codex daemons).
Alpha Legion: Cultists as troops, no daemons.
Worldeaters: No havocs. All units have FC, WS5 & mark of khorne.
Emperors Children: Havocs/terminaters/chosen can have blastmasters. All units have mark of slaanesh.
Death Guard: All units have mark of nurgle, T4(5), I3 and blight grenades. No heavy weapon options.
Thousand Sons: Only Cult Troops, Rubric Terminators and vehicles. Sorcerer unit in elites instead of possessed and chosen.

Lord_Crull
19-08-2007, 23:02
whats the point man,

WD rules would be as much a house rule as you could come up with yourself. Dude if you really want to play with a cult specific army use count as. Heck if your opponent agrees use the old codex.

I'm talking about creating legal lists for the Noise Marine maries and other lists that got ilvalidated int he new codex.

This thread was created as part of a submission. I ask you to please stya in topic and submit useful suggestions and ideas for the cults again.


But, for the most part, the Cults can still be fielded with the Codex.......

Tzeentch, Khorne, Nurgle and Slaanesh are all there. Sure, you can't have a Sonic Predator anymore, but thats what the VDR rules are for.....

What about Noise Marine Termies, Noise Marine Bikes, Noise Marine Havocs. Nurgle Lords with FNP and WE lords with FC.

dcikgyurt
19-08-2007, 23:14
Oh, and god specific legions only get access to daemons of the same god (although I suppose this goes without saying).

dcikgyurt
19-08-2007, 23:43
All I am askign for is a Chaos Lord with a doom siren.

That might be asking a little too much, but then I don't know if doom siren still affects Initiatives like it used to.

LictorIntheGrass
19-08-2007, 23:50
I'd like to see a Cult codex. Alot people had cult armies or specialty armies like Iron Warriors. So they at times were unbalance, I don't think it was justified getting rid of them all. GW's "streamline" BS is what it is, BS. They should have fixed them first before getting rid of them.

+ + REMOVED BY THE WS =I= + +

Lord_Crull
20-08-2007, 00:17
How is it in any way "mindless flaming"? I suggest you read some of the other posts in this thread before mine, as they say pretty much the same thing. The new CSM dex covers the cult units quite nicely. Want a Nurgle Lord with FNP? Take Typhus. Want a WE lord with FC? Take Kharn.

Neither have to be said character, all they are is a name. All it takes is one little sentence of "this guy counts as...."

Yes, some of the more extreme options will not be covered. But there is no reason to do the whole petition route as it will acheive nothing frankly.

An if I want to take a Noise Marine Lord with termie armor I take....?

No, Wait. I'm falling for your flame-bait.

This is not a debate. This is to discuss options. And you arn't helping at all.

CommisarMolotov
20-08-2007, 00:25
The new CSM dex covers the cult units quite nicely. Want a Nurgle Lord with FNP? Take Typhus. Want a WE lord with FC? Take Kharn.

That's a truly lame substitute, and I think you already know that.

A Death Guard cult army should properly be led by a Death Guard Chaos Lord, not just some "generic dude with the mark of Nurgle" or a xeroxed version of Typhus. Ditto for Death Guard Havoc squads - they didn't stop being Death Guard Plaguemarines when they picked up their meltaguns.

Reinstate the restrictions on Death Guard havocs (only special weapons), bump up the points costs for Havocs and Death Guard Chaos Lords, and let them re-join their legion where they belong. Really, what's the harm?

Gensuke626
20-08-2007, 01:50
That's a truly lame substitute, and I think you already know that.

A Death Guard cult army should properly be led by a Death Guard Chaos Lord, not just some "generic dude with the mark of Nurgle" or a xeroxed version of Typhus. Ditto for Death Guard Havoc squads - they didn't stop being Death Guard Plaguemarines when they picked up their meltaguns.

Reinstate the restrictions on Death Guard havocs (only special weapons), bump up the points costs for Havocs and Death Guard Chaos Lords, and let them re-join their legion where they belong. Really, what's the harm?

No harm, but I don't see how playing the Generic Nurgle lord as a Death Guard Lord is any worse of an option. I don't see why you NEED the restrictions to simply take havocs with specials.

All in All, I think the people here are simply wishlisting for the power that 3.5 gave them. I mean, I've watched friends struggle through the 3.0 Chaos Codex. Now there was some horrific writing. You think you guys have it bad now? 3.0 was the worst. Oblits couldn't have the same shooting weapons on any given turn (Ie, each oblit had to shoot a different weapon choice), Havocs could only take 3 heavy weapons per squad, Demon Princes only had a 5+ invulnerable save, the demons were a generic stat line with a bonus to 1 attribute (or BS3 and a boltgun equivalent if they were Tzeentch).

Now, as for actually contributing to your thread? I think an online petition is absolutely the wrong way to go. 100% Bad Idea. They all look like Whiny Wishlists. Now the thing you really ought to do is get a website going where you can homebrew Legion Rules as a Fan-created house rule system. All of you who really want to see your favorite legion back in it's fully glory? Do your research. Find all the Old Chaos books and take in everything you can to give the legions back the flavor they deserve. Homebrew it, playtest it, balance the rules. Make Them Fair Rules.

As you do this, make sure to take in comments from some sort of forum. Playtest input from people outside your circle to see what works and what doesnt. And when the project is off the ground and you have 2 or 3 Fair and Balanced house rules for Chaos Legions going, submit a letter to White Dwarf, Inviting EVERYONE to come in and help you develop and playtest the house rules. Advertise it everywhere and if you're lucky, you'll catch the attention of one of the GW higher ups. If your work is GOOD, they may ever bring it to the dev team's attention...get the rules inserted as a White Dwarf Chapter approved after some GW tweaking.

The Point is, you can't go in and BEG for someone to give you what you want. You need to work at it, and show GW that you've got an undying devotion to something you feel is Lacking.

Now if you're still reading this, I've got a few more things to say. I can already tell, some of you will say "That will never work!" "That's too hard!" "GW Doesn't Care!" If you're one of these people, leave. NOW! All you're doing is wishlisting and/or whining. The people who really want this don't need your negative input.

I know there will be some people out there who are saying "But then these aren't official rules!" My Reply...Who Cares? It's a game! and the rules need to start somewhere. Any rule that the Dev team spits out isn't a rule untill we have it bound up in a Codex, FAQ, Errata, or other "Official" document.

And those of you who say "What if we do all this work, and nothing happens?" Well, that's just the chance you're going to have to take isn't it? Online petitions don't work. I've seen hundreds of them and they never drum up enough support to change anything. All anyone sees is a list of 10000 people all whining about the same thing. It's why Anti-Iraq protests in Colleges across America haven't gotten US troops back home yet. No One Cares about the Whiners.

But if you have a project that's worth while, and you pour your Sweat and Blood and Tears into it, someone will stand up and take notice. You may die before you see the fruits of your labor, but you're not doing this just for yourself right? You're doing it for every human who wants to field a Chaos Legion with special rules.

At this point I have to appologise for getting up on a soapbox and preaching, but the thought of an Online Petition just bothers me. I am a big fan of the Nightlords, and I want to see them done right...Something to simulate Fear Tactics and Lightning Raids...and a way to impose night fighting.

Lord Cook
20-08-2007, 02:48
That's a truly lame substitute, and I think you already know that.

Some people obviously don't think so, or he wouldn't have suggested it. I agree a fully customisable Lord would be favourable, but the option is there.


Reinstate the restrictions on Death Guard havocs (only special weapons)... Really, what's the harm?

What's the harm in just not using heavy weapons on your havocs? Oh yes of course, if everyone else isn't forced to do that as well, it clearly detracts from your own personal gaming experience.

And I completely agree with Gensuke626 about the online petition. Show GW you're worth listening to and they actually might.

philbrad2
20-08-2007, 08:48
Keep this thread on its intended topic and stop with the baiting comments. One poster has been dealt with for posting offensively.

Gentlemen, you have been warned!

PhilB
:chrome:
+ WarSeer Mod Team +

DarthSte
20-08-2007, 09:16
I think writing in to WD is a nice idea. Personally I will wait until I have actually read the new codex before writing in, as it may not be as bad as thought. In fact, looking at the other posts about the codex, I think my Death Guard are not going to have to change at all. Other than the Nurglings.

Vaktathi
20-08-2007, 10:21
Okay I'm pro-codex, but legion specific rules in an issue of white dwarf would not be a bad idea. I'd like for it to be either a fun fluff filled list that is not tournament legal (like armoured companies) or a mini codex (like BA) but with the special rules being reasonable. For example:

Iron Warriors: May replace two FA slots with a basilisk.
Night Lords: No Havocs, but raptors become troops (like BA)
Word Bearers: Two units of daemons use Troops slots (Allowing for an almost pure daemon army with units from codex daemons).
Alpha Legion: Cultists as troops, no daemons.
Worldeaters: No havocs. All units have FC, WS5 & mark of khorne.
Emperors Children: Havocs/terminaters/chosen can have blastmasters. All units have mark of slaanesh.
Death Guard: All units have mark of nurgle, T4(5), I3 and blight grenades. No heavy weapon options.
Thousand Sons: Only Cult Troops, Rubric Terminators and vehicles. Sorcerer unit in elites instead of possessed and chosen.

Expanding on your concept, here's what I'd personally like to see

Iron Warriors: May replace two FA slots with a basilisk. (I liked this one, but I'll add my own as well) No Daemons, no Cult troops, no Possessed, may take an extra squad of Terminators as Troops, an additional meltagun, or flamer (but not plasmagun) may be taken in each Troops squad of at least 10 strong (making 3 possible special weapons or two and one heavy). Each Terminator squad may take one free Chainfist, RAC's are 15pts instead of 25. Daemon Prince 0-1. No Sorcerors. Icons other than Chaos Glory may not be taken on anything but Fast Attack and HQ units.

Night Lords: Raptors as troops,no cult troops, no Daemons, Chosen as both Elites and HS, no defilers, Oblits, or Land Raiders. Aspiring Champion upgrade free for Chosen in Elites slots.

Word Bearers: not quite sure unfortunatley

Alpha Legion: Cultists (as they appear in the 3.5 dex) in place of Daemons, Chosen as both Elites and HS, no defilers, or Oblits, no Possessed, no Daemons of any type. Aspiring Champion upgrade free for Chosen in Elites slots.

Worldeaters: no other troops but Berserkers, all units with Fearless, FC, WS5 and +1A, No Sorcerors, Defilers MUST take two additional DCCW's. Land Raider and Predator 0-1 each.

Emperors Children: Havocs/terminaters/chosen can have blastmasters. All units have mark of slaanesh. I'd also add in the old Dread sonic weapons.

Death Guard: All units have mark of nurgle, T4(5), I3 and blight grenades. No heavy weapon options. fine to me.

Thousand Sons: No Lords, only Sorcerors and Daemon Princes w/Mark of Tzeentch allowed, only Thousand Sons for troops, no Defilers, no Oblits, all units with Mark of Tzeentch. Psyker units may take up to two Thrall Wizards (as they are in the current 3.5 ed codex).

dcikgyurt
20-08-2007, 11:06
Not bad, it kinda covers the areas I was unsure about, I still like the idea of a unit of aspiring sorcerers in the place of chosen/possessed for Thousand Sons.

The Rubric of Ahriman stopped the mutation that leads to possessed marines, and Chosen would all be sorcerers, so why not just make them a unit of Sorcerers.

I think that If we can get some definite rules, based on the new codex, written down here for people to play test and then follow Gensuke626's idea of play testing them and submitting them to GW then you have a better chance than if you just had a petition. I'm ambivalent, I play BL and none of this affects me, but I don't mind helping out where I can.

elfman
20-08-2007, 11:42
May I make a suggestion that you don't go giving people veteran skills for tiny points costs, so no 1pt infiltrate for something in power armour. One of the things that annoyed me the most about choas in the last dex was that they got things for such tiny points values e.g. cultists with 2 veteran skills for approximately the same as a guardsman.

The_Patriot
20-08-2007, 14:06
Not bad, it kinda covers the areas I was unsure about, I still like the idea of a unit of aspiring sorcerers in the place of chosen/possessed for Thousand Sons.

The Rubric of Ahriman stopped the mutation that leads to possessed marines, and Chosen would all be sorcerers, so why not just make them a unit of Sorcerers.

I think that If we can get some definite rules, based on the new codex, written down here for people to play test and then follow Gensuke626's idea of play testing them and submitting them to GW then you have a better chance than if you just had a petition. I'm ambivalent, I play BL and none of this affects me, but I don't mind helping out where I can.

Well if you have a bunch of psykers running around that can severely unbalance the game if using standard Codex powers which is why sorcerers are limited to 1 per slot and are ICs. With GW removing the difference between minor and major psyker powers it would be hard to do them rules wise. You could always use "counts as" for Chosen and say that all their attacks are psyker based, so you don't have to rewrite any of the rules. Another balance would be to choose which weapon they have that is a psyker power and they can only use that power as per the rules in the Chaos Codex for psyker powers. However, the balance is that units like Sisters of Battle can use Shield of Faith against them. This would mean that Sisters would have to roll 5+ save against the power since there isn't any minor psyker powers.

whitemagikmarker
20-08-2007, 14:43
you guys do realize that gw will be doing cult codexs in the future right?, why not just wait till the cult codexs come out. all it takes is just a little bit of waiting. the wait will be worth it, each cult getting a stand alone codex, yummy, plus more than likely recut or redone cult troops, just like they do for BT or DA.
if the orks can wait 10years for their codex i think u guys can wait a year or 2 for yours.

Mouldsta
20-08-2007, 15:07
I'm not a fan of the idea of having nurgle chaos lords with FNP, blight grenades etc just because the troops now have that - That's kind of like getting a gift horse, looking in it's mouth, finding out it has gold teeth and then demanding that all your other horse's should have gold teeth as well. IMO the new chaos lords are basically the same as the old ones - have the ability that goes with that god (e.g. +1 attack) and are fearless.

What I don't particularly like is the fact that if you're doing an original cult army that a large part of it is now not fearless. I'd like to see a cult list where units (e.g. terminators, bikers etc) can be fearless as well, or have some more weapon options (sonic weapons) but with large drawbacks (either large points costs or massive restrictions).

That's the only thing I'd like to see - I don't want to see all T4(5) FNP blight grenade armies simply because the new plague marines have them; just because the basic troops got significantly better doesn't mean that everything else should become significantly better. Having all fearless troops would adequately represent original cult armies without the need for really broken army lists

It would also let people field their sonic weapon armies (perhaps make sonic weapons very expensive and MANDATORY for ALL units).

I think the word bearers, night lords, iron warriors and to some extent alpha legion are all reasonably represented in the new codex - they don't need a plethora of largely redundant special rules and moved around FoC charts to represent them.
Iron warriors for example are a seige army that doesn't like daemons - so taking 30 terminators, 3 vindicators and no daemons is perfect for this, rather than them being "the chaos army with the basilisk". Anyone that is truely interested in fielding an IW army based on the fluff would know that the basilisks are only used in the early stages of a seige for dismounting wall guns and reducing the morale of the defenders. The chaos marines at that point are busy getting slaves to dig them more trenches. When the time comes for fighting (i.e. a game of 40K) it's when a breach has been made, so the bassy is put away and out come the vindicators, terminators and normal marines.

DarthSte
20-08-2007, 15:11
you guys do realize that gw will be doing cult codexs in the future right?, why not just wait till the cult codexs come out. all it takes is just a little bit of waiting. the wait will be worth it, each cult getting a stand alone codex, yummy, plus more than likely recut or redone cult troops, just like they do for BT or DA.
if the orks can wait 10years for their codex i think u guys can wait a year or 2 for yours.

I assumed that was what was happening - has that been confirmed anywhere though? I would think with Space Marines having Black Templars, Dark Angels, Space Wolves, Blood Angels, and maybe another one that I can't think of, it would make sense for Legion specific codeces for chaos too.

Calden
20-08-2007, 16:43
I think the new codex is fine personally, and if you see Legion specific rules, they'll be a long way off.

However, I think if you really want Legion specific rules, then you should put a little more thought into it than "Iron Warriors can have an extra FOC slot". If an army is supposed to be diverse enough to warrant entirely seperate rules, show that they warrant it!

Eg.

Iron Warriors
Squads may purchase bunkers as transports instead of Rhinos, or bunkers may be bought as Heavy Support slots. These are deployed before anything else deploys, in the Iron Warriors deployment zone.
Only Icon of Chaos Glory.
Bulk that out with some extra squad types, special weapon teams similar to havocs for example, and possibly instead of Chosen they get an elite tank-hunting unit. etc etc


Night Lords
May purchase the ability to change the mission to a Night Fight, the results of Dusk & Dawn would be reversed, so that the first or last turn become daylight. No Acute Senses bonus except on some specialist units. With the mass distribution of searchlights to vehicles now, this becomes alot less game-breaking.
Elite options for special Raptor and bike units.
Different icon options, access to Icon of Ghaos Glory, and new icon with morale effects, -1Ld to enemies within 6" for example, with the ability to stack (Flesh Banner?).


Alpha Legion
Cultists. More like conscripts than old version. So more about massed hordes of nutters.
Elite option for "half-marines", squads with more in common with the old cultists but boosted stats, and representative of the "half-marines" the Alpha Legion use.
All vehicles start in reserve, but Alpha Legion deployment zone extended by 6-12" in all directions. (Should be more balancing than an entirely infiltrating army)
Chosen with abilities more in common with Wolf Scouts, and "Word in your ear" abiltity to represent sowing chaos and dissention in enemy troops. Enemy unit has to take a Ld test, fail and they are moved before deployment. Several chosen can either use ability seperately, or stack for culmative -1 Ld penalty on one unit.
Army special - may deploy units in any order, disregarding usual "Heavy, Troops, Elites...etc."
Only Icon of Chaos Glory.


Word Bearers
Demagogue made more similar to Chaplain, same equipment, but re-rolls to wound rather than hit to represent more brutal assault.
Daemons gain access to Icons/Marks (Or god-specific daemons if Daemon codex released).
Elite "summoning" unit, similar to a portable Webway portal, just for daemons.
May take any Icon.


Thousand Sons
Rubric Terminators, similar benefits to Thousand Son squads, limited to one squad due to being very rare.
No chosen, replaced by Sorcerer Cabal. Special unit that gains several psychic powers and methods of bypassing psychic defenses as well as providing them. These powers only work as long as at least 3 members are still alive. Each member counts as a psychic, but can only cast a single power for the squad. Function like psychic artillery/support.
Chosen of Ahriman as another Elite. No normal chaos space marine units, vehicles gain "All is Dust" upgrade. Like Daemonic Possession, but no BS penalty, more expensive of course. Dreadnoughts upgraded with this loose insanity roll, but become Slow and Purposeful.


World Eaters
Not a clue for this lot.


Emperors Children
Noise Marine upgrade for units. Although should limited in some way, as the whole Legion is not Noise Marines, only a portion (I think).
More emphasis on the enthralling and entrapment aspect of Slaanesh.


Death Guard
Heavy weapons access, but in limited numbers, Elites?
Specialist Rhino squads as Fast Attack, no Rhinos for troops.
Chosen sport very powerful disease based weapons....god knows what.



Of course I've only touched on what *could* be done to make the various Legions more independent. I don't think it's really needed however. As many of these things can be done via counts-as. Of course some rules would be nice, but you have to remember that any extra rules take GW even more time to develop and more time to see the light of day.

For me, if the Legions are to be done, they would have to be done as seperate army lists, but in some respects I'd HATE for that to happen. Mostly due to the fact that 40k already has plenty of options for marine armies and to see 8 more versions with their own rules would really spoil the setting in my eyes.

What I would encourage people to do instead, is play alot of missions more focused on the opperating methods of the legions. So play alot of missions with the Iron Warriors using bunkers, or attacking them. Or the Night Lords and Alpha Legion doing hit-and-run raids on enemy emplacements. These style of missions will give you the feel of your army doing what it's supposed to do alot more for some of the Legions than a set of special rules.

Lord Balian
20-08-2007, 17:17
Sorry Lord_Crull, but this is not needed. I have seen the codex and read carefully through the cult marines rules. Each of the 4 cult marines have their own entry, seperate from a standard chaos marine. They are all troops choices.

Each of the cult marine units have some crazy rules that make them pretty mean and unique. They are all fearless just as they were before. For example Thousand Sons have 4+ invuln, and their bolters are AP3. Plague Marines are T5 and have Feel No Pain. Berzerkers are WS5, get an extra attack and come with Furious Charge.

Then to make a pure cult army even more cool, you can any other CSM unit available, give it an Icon of the cult to receive a partial cult bonus. How about raptors with Icon of Khorn to give them +1 attack, so they are base 3 attacks? How about bikers with an Icon of Nurlge so they are T4/6? Havocs with an icon of Tzeetch giving them a 5+ invuln, so you can park them safely anywhere, with out worrying about putting them in cover?
For these other units getting Icons, you are free to paint them with the theme of your cult etc.

Lord_Crull
20-08-2007, 18:00
Expanding on your concept, here's what I'd personally like to see

Iron Warriors: May replace two FA slots with a basilisk. (I liked this one, but I'll add my own as well) No Daemons, no Cult troops, no Possessed, may take an extra squad of Terminators as Troops, an additional meltagun, or flamer (but not plasmagun) may be taken in each Troops squad of at least 10 strong (making 3 possible special weapons or two and one heavy). Each Terminator squad may take one free Chainfist, RAC's are 15pts instead of 25. Daemon Prince 0-1. No Sorcerors. Icons other than Chaos Glory may not be taken on anything but Fast Attack and HQ units.

Night Lords: Raptors as troops,no cult troops, no Daemons, Chosen as both Elites and HS, no defilers, Oblits, or Land Raiders. Aspiring Champion upgrade free for Chosen in Elites slots.

Word Bearers: not quite sure unfortunatley

Alpha Legion: Cultists (as they appear in the 3.5 dex) in place of Daemons, Chosen as both Elites and HS, no defilers, or Oblits, no Possessed, no Daemons of any type. Aspiring Champion upgrade free for Chosen in Elites slots.

Worldeaters: no other troops but Berserkers, all units with Fearless, FC, WS5 and +1A, No Sorcerors, Defilers MUST take two additional DCCW's. Land Raider and Predator 0-1 each.

Emperors Children: Havocs/terminaters/chosen can have blastmasters. All units have mark of slaanesh. I'd also add in the old Dread sonic weapons.

Death Guard: All units have mark of nurgle, T4(5), I3 and blight grenades. No heavy weapon options. fine to me.

Thousand Sons: No Lords, only Sorcerors and Daemon Princes w/Mark of Tzeentch allowed, only Thousand Sons for troops, no Defilers, no Oblits, all units with Mark of Tzeentch. Psyker units may take up to two Thrall Wizards (as they are in the current 3.5 ed codex).

Some I agree with and some I do not.

My Night Lords have been hit hard by the new codex but they can be replesented well by it. So can the Iron Warriors and the Word Bearers to some extent.

However the Alpha Legion needs work I agree on.

However the Alpha Legion and Iron Warriors and Night Lords have used deamons before. It would be a good idea to reduce IW and NL to just the generic varity and aloow IW acess to Bezerkers as they have been shown to take them/


you guys do realize that gw will be doing cult codexs in the future right?, why not just wait till the cult codexs come out. all it takes is just a little bit of waiting. the wait will be worth it, each cult getting a stand alone codex, yummy, plus more than likely recut or redone cult troops, just like they do for BT or DA.
if the orks can wait 10years for their codex i think u guys can wait a year or 2 for yours.

First of all it has never been confirmed. Second of all if that is true we want GW to know what we want int that case.


Sorry Lord_Crull, but this is not needed. I have seen the codex and read carefully through the cult marines rules. Each of the 4 cult marines have their own entry, seperate from a standard chaos marine. They are all troops choices.

Each of the cult marine units have some crazy rules that make them pretty mean and unique. They are all fearless just as they were before. For example Thousand Sons have 4+ invuln, and their bolters are AP3. Plague Marines are T5 and have Feel No Pain. Berzerkers are WS5, get an extra attack and come with Furious Charge.

Then to make a pure cult army even more cool, you can any other CSM unit available, give it an Icon of the cult to receive a partial cult bonus. How about raptors with Icon of Khorn to give them +1 attack, so they are base 3 attacks? How about bikers with an Icon of Nurlge so they are T4/6? Havocs with an icon of Tzeetch giving them a 5+ invuln, so you can park them safely anywhere, with out worrying about putting them in cover?
For these other units getting Icons, you are free to paint them with the theme of your cult etc.

What abotu Termies with sonic weapons and bikes with sonic weapons? Most EC armies are ivalidated by the new codex. And ''counts as'' is a poor subsitute. If you are not going to help then please post elsewhere.

DarthSte
20-08-2007, 22:14
If you are not going to help then please post elsewhere.

I think you need to calm down a bit, you come across as quite rude when you say things like that. Clearly this is a subject that you feel strongly about, which is a good thing; but you're belittling individuals who are trying to challenge your opinion and that is a bad thing.

I thought he was trying to help, by saying that as he had read the book he felt that many or most cult armies would not have to change. It seems that you may have an EC army, which unfortunately sounds like it may be an exception rather than the rule as far as compatibility of cult armies in the new codex.

As I have said previously in this thread, my army seems like it'll be able to be fielded unchanged, as I'm sure most people's will. But once the rules are released, if you feel that your army has been dealt with unfairly, then perhaps writing to GW or WD would be a good way of showing your opinion, and it is possible that if enough people are effected they may do as you suggest and petition the company for legion rules ASAP.

I think you may have more people join your cause if you stopped telling people with questions or differing opinions to go away. :angel:

Belisarius
20-08-2007, 23:15
as an Al player i like the options I am seeing here. Especially the crazy cultists and the Agent kind. A word in your ear would add the wanted flavor without having all infiltrate. i really like what i am seeing. Oh if AL gets any daemons via cultists i agree they should be generic not the god specific ones.

The Muffin Man
21-08-2007, 00:03
I know this wont help anyone with Emperors Children army that consist only of sonic wielding marines but not everyone in the Emperors Children legion are noise marines it says this in the old codex and the new one. Just because you worship Slaanesh doesn't mean you have to fight with a sonic weapon. So the new codex does very well portraying an Emperors Children force. This is the same for the other legions. Not every World Eater is a berserker, nor is every Thousand Son a rubric marine.

Lord_Crull
21-08-2007, 01:48
I think you need to calm down a bit, you come across as quite rude when you say things like that. Clearly this is a subject that you feel strongly about, which is a good thing; but you're belittling individuals who are trying to challenge your opinion and that is a bad thing.

I thought he was trying to help, by saying that as he had read the book he felt that many or most cult armies would not have to change. It seems that you may have an EC army, which unfortunately sounds like it may be an exception rather than the rule as far as compatibility of cult armies in the new codex.

As I have said previously in this thread, my army seems like it'll be able to be fielded unchanged, as I'm sure most people's will. But once the rules are released, if you feel that your army has been dealt with unfairly, then perhaps writing to GW or WD would be a good way of showing your opinion, and it is possible that if enough people are effected they may do as you suggest and petition the company for legion rules ASAP.

I think you may have more people join your cause if you stopped telling people with questions or differing opinions to go away. :angel:

I apologize for seeming to be rude. But it is quite irritating for one of your armies that you spent hard money on is ivalidated and a guy tells you to stop whining and to halt any attempt at getting them back. :mad::(:cries:
Yeah, sorry if I come across as such.

Now back to the topic at hand.

Grimshawl
21-08-2007, 01:58
I think a decent number of Chaos players got the shaft, some of them less so than others but many just dont want to put their two cents in here and be heckled and called whingers, etc. its like some posters are imitating the loud mouth school yard bully who with a sneer, a surley stare and some trash talk tries to intimidate all the other kids into agreeing with whatever he says.
Believe it or not I think each gamer who owns his own chaos army and has played with it many times is better qualified to determine if their army got trashed by the changes coming forth in the new codex.

violenceha
21-08-2007, 02:04
Could you add a plea for the release of plastic legion specific upgrade sprues to the submission?
One of the things really turning me off the hobby of miniature collecting at the moment is GW's attitude of release less.

Lord_Crull
21-08-2007, 02:51
Could you add a plea for the release of plastic legion specific upgrade sprues to the submission?
One of the things really turning me off the hobby of miniature collecting at the moment is GW's attitude of release less.

That would be asking too much. Plastic is expensive to make and GW is reserving that for other important projects. Still we can hope.

Belisarius
21-08-2007, 04:42
Thank you Grimshawl:chrome:
I agree that new plastics for legion specific are too much to hope for. Retooling to make drop pods, stompas, ork vehicles, and other kits is going to make it darn near impossible. At Chicago GD they spoke of the stress and difficulty it created on their manufactoring/casting schedule.