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Commander Lance
21-08-2007, 07:56
Okay, I was doing Lost and the Damned tell it became unofficial. So I decided to do Imperial Guard, being kind of corrupt fluff wise. But after a few games with my Tau buddie I don't know if I can go on with them. So I'm considering Eldar.

Heres the conflict. I really actually want to do Lost and the Damned (with official rules and everything), but don't want to wait forever for a list like that to come out. I'v ordered quite a few Guard stuff already and got a good fluff going I think but I don't know....

The Eldar card is for something solid: an army I can most likely win with and be happy. But I love the feel of Guard; the whole WWII thing. Plus, I hear rumors of a Lost and the Damned list floating around coming in a couple months.

So what do u guys think?

Reaver83
21-08-2007, 08:05
traitor guard = latd

Brother Loki
21-08-2007, 08:43
I would honestly stick with what you've already spent money on. Traitor guard can be a cool LatD alternative list.

Head on over to the Tactics forum and dip in to the Imperial Guard tactica thread. Be warned it is massive. You can win with guard, it just needs some thought.

silverstu
21-08-2007, 09:33
Definately stick with your traitor guard- sounds like that is what has your passion behind it. I'd just figure out how to be more competitiive and fun with that list rather than turning to another army. Ultimately it will be more satisfying.

Ktotwf
21-08-2007, 10:18
I always thought it would be simple to do what Gen. Steiner does - play an Imperial Guard army, just paint it and theme it and organize it in such a way that it is traitor guard.

Slaaneshi Slave
21-08-2007, 10:44
There is no reason why Traitor Guard wouldn't follow the exact same organisation as regular Guard, medals, Commisars and all.

Ktotwf
21-08-2007, 10:52
Traitor commissar is kind of an oxymoron. But I guess the Grey Knights are the only force in the Imperium which has never lost SOMEONE to Chaos...so I guess it is possible, just improbable.

My feeling is that the Commissar would be shot as soon as the men decided to turn to Chaos.

Slaaneshi Slave
21-08-2007, 10:53
A Commisar in a Traitor Guard list would probably not be a turned Commisar, but a Senior NCO who is "keeping morale up" and making sure nobody has a change of heart.

My thoughts on the Grey Knights never having lost anybody to Chaos is that they have had troopers turn, but they are always shot and marked down as casualties of war, not traitors. It helps you be invulnerable if you believe you are invulnerable.

BaronDG
21-08-2007, 11:43
Arn't the Enforcers from the latest Imperial Armour something like commisars for LatD? Besides, I guess some of them would love to bear their old insignia with their new alignment. The emperors children still have the aquila on their chest, right?

Lord Cook
21-08-2007, 17:01
There's no reason why traitor guard wouldn't have their own political officers tasked with maintaining strict discipline and loyalty. The rules for commissars reflect that nicely.

NallTWD
21-08-2007, 17:20
There's an alternative you haven't discovered yet that no one uses, and makes an army VERY unique.

Abhumans. And its PERFECT for traitor guard.
Wiki link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abhuman

WD302 (America) gave us a list of various genetic modifications, including:

1) Feral world ogryn: Warrior weapon ogryn
2) Afriel strain: The genes of the imperium's heroes were used to create a race of superwarriors... They have "they shall know no fear" but all enemies hate them and bad luck seems to follow. They're always hit on a 3+
3) Subs: The genetic horror show. These guys do not require a test to shoot through, but provide a cover save (5+) to units behind them.
4) Nightsiders: Night world vets, have acute senses rule.
5) Gland warriors: Warriors implanted with all manner of experimental genes. They get fleet of foot and warrior weapons.

There are two more, but I forget them. One of which is a strain of beastmen, and one is a unit of mutant guard.

Look them up, they rock and provide epic flavor to any guard, as well as provide some chaosy goodness.

Baneboss
21-08-2007, 17:21
But after a few games with my Tau buddie I don't know if I can go on with them.

Have it crossed your mind that he might be just a better player than you? You will learn in time but dont expect that choosing eldar will give you victory after victory without any sweating from yourself.

Instead of being lazy ass go read some tactica!

Warp Zero
21-08-2007, 17:43
Okay, I was doing Lost and the Damned tell it became unofficial. So I decided to do Imperial Guard, being kind of corrupt fluff wise. But after a few games with my Tau buddie I don't know if I can go on with them. So I'm considering Eldar.

Let me tell ya something. The Tau are indeed a very tough opponent to fight. I play Eldar....by switching to Eldar, you're not going to have an easier time fighting your buddy. Yes, Eldar are fast and they have some nasty close range and hand to hand units that tear through Tau once they get close. However, you gotta get close.

Traitor Guard (counts as Imperial Guard) can do well against Tau. In fact, they're are better equiped to deal with one of the Tau's nastiest tactic. That being the JSJ, Jump Shoot Jump. The Eldar's only indirect fire weapon is the Shadow Weaver. Guard can take Mortars and Basilisks. Fantastic for dealing with suits hiding behind terrain.

It seems you've put the time and effort to starting some Traitor Guard. You got some nice fluff you've written attached to them....man, I say stick with it. Get yourself some Mortar teams...a Basilisk or two....your Tau friend won't be as "untouchable" after that. :) Oh...and uh....make sure you're playing on the recommended amount of Terrain. If you and your friend are doing the thing I see most players at stores do (two pieces of terrain on the border of each side and like a huge wasteland in the middle), then it doesn't matter what army you have, the Tau firepower will shred a ton of your guys.

floyd pinkerton
21-08-2007, 19:56
you have two options- Taritor guard using the IG list, or possibly the FW Renegade list.

I think that you'd actually do better with the FW Renegade list, as it has a lot of indirect fire artillery weapons to kill his JSJ-ers, and plenty of AP4 weaponry for pesky Fire Warriors, along with the heavy weapon teams etc. and kit of the usual IG list.

Though if you don't want to spend loads on your army, you could just buy the Siege of Vraks book and use your own scratch-built kits for heavy mortars etc., as I'm pretty sure you could by historical ones from other companies pretty cheap.

Mad Doc Grotsnik
21-08-2007, 20:00
Right, heres what to do....

Go and make what is essentially a Renegade Imperial Guard army. Use the Imperial Guard Codex. This is for Tournament/Non-Friendly play.

Then add in elements from LatD making into a LatD list using the Eye of Terror.

Two armies, one army, all happy.

Commander Lance
22-08-2007, 07:31
Well, I think I'm going to stick with Guard, more or less. haha. Meaning it may be very chaotic.

I was thinking at work today of how I can use some of the aspects of the LaTD list into my Imperial Guard and thought about the Ogryn and Conscript usage.

But some cool stuff like having Inquistors be the Aspiring Champions is kind of frustrating. First off I have to have the core part of my Guard first to get and Inquistor and that gets pretty spendy, personally, having an Imperial Command Squad and an Inquistor.

I really like the LaTD HQ options in the back of the Witch Hunters book and wish I could use those. Thats my real complication is the HQ, that would help a lot personally.

I pretty much have the doctrines figured with Light Infantry and Iron Discpline. But I'm debating with the Chem-Inhalers. Plus, I really want to use Grenadiers, plus I have to leave space open for restricted troops. I'v thought about Independent Commissars as well for 'enforcers' for the conscripts.

bungeeboy
22-08-2007, 09:33
who care's if you win?

i would reinforce the IG, especially against a shooty tau army :)

you'll soon get your money's worth :D

Count de Monet
22-08-2007, 09:42
Some allied "Witchhunters" or "Demonhunters" could help mix it up. An inquisitor makes a good AH stand-in.

Slaaneshi Slave
22-08-2007, 11:10
Don't touch Allied Daemon Hunters with a 10 foot barge pole. They have nothing to offer Guard. Guard do better in first strike combat with Rough Riders, and are more survivable (almost an entire squad for every GK Terminator).

Allied Witch Hunters though, and another story entirely! Two units of allied Sisters of Battle with Books of St Lucius will make your entire army unmodifiable Ld9. Who doesn't want an Imperial Guard army with better Ld than Marines? :D

Sureshot05
22-08-2007, 11:21
Ruleswise Commisars make great heretical leaders for your squads. As soon as they try to flee the combat, a sacrifice to the dark gods soon gives them the fire to fight on. Priests also work brilliantly in this role, Ogryns are just big mutants to start with. Concripts become roaming mobs of cultists, the list is already there before you start using the wonderful trait system to modify the rules for your guard for a more close combat aspect. You can add the deep strike rules to bring in weakened daemons (horrors in particular work well) with weak shots and powers.

Its the most customisable list and with count as, you can create pretty much any army you wish.

Lord Cook
22-08-2007, 11:40
1) Feral world ogryn: Warrior weapon ogryn
2) Afriel strain: The genes of the imperium's heroes were used to create a race of superwarriors... They have "they shall know no fear" but all enemies hate them and bad luck seems to follow. They're always hit on a 3+
3) Subs: The genetic horror show. These guys do not require a test to shoot through, but provide a cover save (5+) to units behind them.
4) Nightsiders: Night world vets, have acute senses rule.
5) Gland warriors: Warriors implanted with all manner of experimental genes. They get fleet of foot and warrior weapons.

You missed the best one of them all! Slave Levies. They get Slow and Purposeful, and Feel No Pain. On guardsmen!

The second one you were thinking of was Beast Herds. An upgrade for conscripts which basically improves their CC stats and gives them Furious Charge.

LawrencePhillips
22-08-2007, 12:13
I've had the same problem but sucessfully made the transition using guard and it looks and plays great. My army looks like this:

JO Command with bolters/storm bolters
Anti tank squad with rocket launchers
JO Command with bolters/storm bolters
3 Infantry Squads
Freal Orgryns (AKA big mutants)
hell hound
Russ

100% legal from the guard lists.
In bigger games I allie with 1000 points of chaos in another detachment.

TaintedSpam
22-08-2007, 15:47
Aside from them being horrible, I think Sactioned Psykers is a perfect fit for a traitor guard army. Even the Advisors rule fits here where you'd WANT one psyker in each squad.

Savant
22-08-2007, 16:11
You can represent your CSMs using Grey Knights. Yes, Grey Knights never turn traitor but you'd just be using the rules to represent a completely different group of people.

But the GKs anti-daemon rules don't make sense when given to CSMs, I hear you say? Not really, they're only given two daemon related rules by default.

Daemonic Infestation (daemons all get the Sustained Attack rule) represents the fact that the CSM are practically walking icons of chaos unto themselves, and have probably been doing a lot of summoning/sacrificing themselves before the battle. Anyone trying to summon daemons is going to have really, really easy time of it - it doesn't matter who is doing the summoning, friend or foe, the barriers between the materium and the empyrean have been weakened.

And the Rites of Exorcism rules represent the fact that daemons, if they have qualms about attacking anyone at all, it's going to be Chaos Space Marines. I mean, c'mon, these guys are the champions of the same gods who the daemons exist to serve! They're going to be at least hesitant about attacking them!

And if you don't buy that, then any paltry knowledge the short-lived pawns of the false Emperor have gleaned about warding off daemons, a Chaos Space Marine who's spent the last ten thousand years summoning them and delving into the dark arts concerning the daemonic is going to know too.

Commander Lance
22-08-2007, 16:11
I like the sound of that suggestion of two Witch Hunters with that book...that could really help.

Hicks
22-08-2007, 16:27
Hi

I honestly yhink you should stick to doing your LatD army using the IG codex. Also, be aware that the Tau are by far the worst opponent for your IG. I know that means that you will need to work twice as hard to win, but it is achievable.

Commander Lance
22-08-2007, 22:07
I'v decided to just go with Guard, with a heavy traitor feel. So two things:

First, how can I make Witch Hunters deamonic

Second, how do I beat Tau

dark_horizons80
23-08-2007, 02:28
Go guard, traitor as you may be, heritic you are, but even thats better then meddeling with pansy pointy ears who stab ppl in the back at every chance!

I always say a good heritic is worth then xeno's!
LOL